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Michael - The Great Album Debate

I thought there have been a lack of pro-believer arguments in here lately, so I decided to come up with some myself ;)

One of the things that I think can hardly be explained is that there are no typical Michael Jackson trademark sounds on the tracks except for the copy&pastes. One of the possible explanations could be that the songs were originally intended for someone else. Imagine the following situation: You write few songs, want to record demos and it just happens you have Michael Jackson in your house. You naturally ask him, he says "why not", and he's trying to sound like the singer who will finally sing the songs.

Now, some time ago someone said (I think it was Bumper Snippet, can't find the post right now) that fans have never mistaken Michael's voice for a voice of a sound-alike.

Singing voice? Probably not, but what about his speaking voice? What if he's trying to sound different? I tried to put together several examples where he doesn't sound much like himself. I altered the voice slightly (shifted it half a tone down and speeded it up a bit). When I finished though, I can still hear it's Michael, but maybe it's just that I know it's him ;) Anyway, I'm posting it here... http://soundcloud.com/thesilentone/different-voice
 
TheSilentOne said:
I thought there have been a lack of pro-believer arguments in here lately, so I decided to come up with some myself ;)

One of the things that I think can hardly be explained is that there are no typical Michael Jackson trademark sounds on the tracks except for the copy&pastes. One of the possible explanations could be that the songs were originally intended for someone else. Imagine the following situation: You write few songs, want to record demos and it just happens you have Michael Jackson in your house. You naturally ask him, he says "why not", and he's trying to sound like the singer who will finally sing the songs.

Now, some time ago someone said (I think it was Bumper Snippet, can't find the post right now) that fans have never mistaken Michael's voice for a voice of a sound-alike.

Singing voice? Probably not, but what about his speaking voice? What if he's trying to sound different? I tried to put together several examples where he doesn't sound much like himself. I altered the voice slightly (shifted it half a tone down and speeded it up a bit). When I finished though, I can still hear it's Michael, but maybe it's just that I know it's him ;) Anyway, I'm posting it here... http://soundcloud.com/thesilentone/different-voice
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He recorded songs, including one where he refers to himself by name, for another person? No.
 
Everybody wantin' a piece of Justin Timber...lake. Reporters stalkin' da moves of Justin Timber...lake.
 
The songs are clearly designed to be Michael Jackson songs. Each one is a deliberate rip off of previous MJ tracks.
 
TheSilentOne said:
I thought there have been a lack of pro-believer arguments in here lately, so I decided to come up with some myself ;)

One of the things that I think can hardly be explained is that there are no typical Michael Jackson trademark sounds on the tracks except for the copy&pastes. One of the possible explanations could be that the songs were originally intended for someone else. Imagine the following situation: You write few songs, want to record demos and it just happens you have Michael Jackson in your house. You naturally ask him, he says "why not", and he's trying to sound like the singer who will finally sing the songs.

Now, some time ago someone said (I think it was Bumper Snippet, can't find the post right now) that fans have never mistaken Michael's voice for a voice of a sound-alike.

Singing voice? Probably not, but what about his speaking voice? What if he's trying to sound different? I tried to put together several examples where he doesn't sound much like himself. I altered the voice slightly (shifted it half a tone down and speeded it up a bit). When I finished though, I can still hear it's Michael, but maybe it's just that I know it's him ;) Anyway, I'm posting it here... http://soundcloud.com/thesilentone/different-voice
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In that case James Porte would be enough rather than going through all this trouble.


p.s. Welcome back Aniram.
 
^^ Thanks Bumper, :) and true, any vocalist could do guide tracks, really, if that's what they were. No reason to get the biggest entertainer on the planet to do it just for the hell of it. And if they were guide tracks or if they were intended for another vocalist, why has Eddie made no mention of that and, actually, in the bit we've seen him talk he always acts like Michael wrote the songs for the fans and was excited.
 
TheSilentOne said:
I thought there have been a lack of pro-believer arguments in here lately, so I decided to come up with some myself ;)One of the things that I think can hardly be explained is that there are no typical Michael Jackson trademark sounds on the tracks except for the copy&pastes. One of the possible explanations could be that the songs were originally intended for someone else. Imagine the following situation: You write few songs, want to record demos and it just happens you have Michael Jackson in your house. You naturally ask him, he says "why not", and he's trying to sound like the singer who will finally sing the songs.Now, some time ago someone said (I think it was Bumper Snippet, can't find the post right now) that fans have never mistaken Michael's voice for a voice of a sound-alike. Singing voice? Probably not, but what about his speaking voice? What if he's trying to sound different? I tried to put together several examples where he doesn't sound much like himself. I altered the voice slightly (shifted it half a tone down and speeded it up a bit). When I finished though, I can still hear it's Michael, but maybe it's just that I know it's him ;) Anyway, I'm posting it here... http://soundcloud.com/thesilentone/different-voice
Click to expand...
Have the believers ever had enough arguments anyway? I kid, I kid :p:ninja:
 
StellaJackson said:
The songs are clearly designed to be Michael Jackson songs. Each one is a deliberate rip off of previous MJ tracks.
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A weak argument. All these accusations of the songs' melodies being rip-off's of previous MJ songs is not a secret and does not have anything to do with the controversial vocals.

"These tracks were recently completed using music from the original vocal tracks and music created by the credited producers"

The red part in other words for Stella:
Producers like Riley, Tricky & Co. were bringing in their own ideas and paying tribute to some of MJ's iconic songs and fan favorites (e.g. "Stranger In Moscow", "Earth Song", "Tabloid Junkie" etc.).
Whether you like this or not is another question. The Cascio songs are a FABRICATION which you are free to hate or whatever...
However it doesn't add anything to your point of view if you keep on claiming something that is CLEARLY not a sign of an alleged fraud and ignore simple facts.
 
^ But the words that the singer actually sings are referencing the older music, not just the music Teddy Riley and Co. produced.
 
Korgnex said:
A weak argument. All these accusations of the songs' melodies being rip-off's of previous MJ songs is not a secret and does not have anything to do with the controversial vocals.

"These tracks were recently completed using music from the original vocal tracks and music created by the credited producers"

The red part in other words for Stella:
Producers like Riley, Tricky & Co. were bringing in their own ideas and paying tribute to some of MJ's iconic songs and fan favorites (e.g. "Stranger In Moscow", "Earth Song", "Tabloid Junkie" etc.).
Whether you like this or not is another question. The songs are a FABRICATION which you are feel to hate or whatever...
It doesn't add anything to your point of view if you keep on claiming something that is CLEARLY not a sign of an alleged fraud and ignore facts.
Click to expand...

The theme of every song is a rip off from previous MJ tracks. I'm not talking about the music, although Ready 2 Win is clearly a copy of the On The Line melody. I never even mentioned melody. It is the overall theme that I was referring to. You don't need to bold things in red. It just makes me less inclined to read it.
 
Korgnex said:
A weak argument. All these accusations of the songs' melodies being rip-off's of previous MJ songs is not a secret and does not have anything to do with the controversial vocals.

"These tracks were recently completed using music from the original vocal tracks and music created by the credited producers"

The red part in other words for Stella:
Producers like Riley, Tricky & Co. were bringing in their own ideas and paying tribute to some of MJ's iconic songs and fan favorites (e.g. "Stranger In Moscow", "Earth Song", "Tabloid Junkie" etc.).
Whether you like this or not is another question. The Cascio songs are a FABRICATION which you are free to hate or whatever...
However it doesn't add anything to your point of view if you keep on claiming something that is CLEARLY not a sign of an alleged fraud and ignore simple facts.
Click to expand...

Alex, just a quick question. If you heard a famous German singer singing with Austrian accent, would you find it suspicious?
 
Aniram said:
^ But the words that the singer actually sings are referencing the older music, not just the music Teddy Riley and Co. produced.
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You mean these "references" like "it's got you jumping off the wall" or "2 bad". It's VERY far-fetched that these words are referencing previous songs. But OK, I know that this is just another thing that you find suspicious, so I won't comment it.

StellaJackson said:
The theme of every song is a rip off from previous MJ tracks.
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Let's assume I would agree with you: What does this prove? It just shows you that with Porte and Cascio you don't get outstanding tracks. Maybe you can remember why many fans don't like INVINCIBLE, many songs were (and still are) considered rip-off's from previous songs.
Agreeing with this point of view about INVINCIBLE (which I don't e.g.) or not does not add anything to the discussion, it's subjective.
You can bring this rip-off argument about the THEME of a song to many of MJ's songs. Of course, you would always counter it by saying "this track is special because of XXX", but - as you hate the Cascio songs and think they would be fake - you would simply not give these tracks the same treatment.
Again: Pointless and not helpful for your point of view.
 
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When I listen to a song off of Invincible, however, I don't ever get the feeling that I'm hearing something I've heard. But it happens way too much with the Cascio songs and it just doesn't seem like something Michael would do.
 
Korgnex said:
Let's assume I would agree with you: What does this prove? It just shows you that with Porte and Cascio you don't get outstanding tracks. Maybe you can remember why many fans don't like INVINCIBLE, many songs were (and still are) considered rip-off's from previous songs.
Agreeing with this point of view about INVINCIBLE (which I don't e.g.) or not does not add anything to the discussion, it's subjective.
You can bring this rip-off argument about the THEME of a song to many of MJ's songs. Of course, you would always counter it by saying "this track is special because of XXX", but - as you hate the Cascio songs and think they would be fake - you would simply not give these tracks the same treatment.
Again: Pointless and not helpful for your point of view.
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I didn't say it proved anything. I was stating that they are clearly designed as MJ songs and not songs for another artist. I was actually responding to TheSilentOne's comment about the songs possibly being for someone else. Nothing to do with the vocal authenticity issue at all. You simply jumped to a conclusion.
 
I actually think I'm starting to like Jason and Eddie, you know, like a Stockholm sort of thing?
 
I went 2 days with no Monster it was not easy.

ae5173effc5722b7e5a38aefbc30b80a.png
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
You'll survive :D
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Lol I did but now for some reason I cannot stop listening to It's The Falling In Love it was never one of those songs I listened to a lot until now.


My friend who was a doubter since day one just turned believer (YAY!)

How he did it

"I just discovered a way to prove that these are really Mike's:
change the EQ of your media player to Jazz mode. In this mode, you'll hear weaker background vocals & lead vocals are more amplified. You'll hear the real Mike! I've tested it in the songs Breaking News & All I Need. In breaking news, his vocals are similar to how he sung Jam. All I Need is an unreleased track with vocals similar to Cry & You're Not Alone! Try & prove it yourself! (^_^d"
 
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ADKIc3mAnX said:
Lol I did but now for some reason I cannot stop listening to It's The Falling In Love it was never one of those songs I listened to a lot until now.


My friend who was a doubter since day one just turned believer (YAY!)

How he did it

"I just discovered a way to prove that these are really Mike's:
change the EQ of your media player to Jazz mode. In this mode, you'll hear weaker background vocals & lead vocals are more amplified. You'll hear the real Mike! I've tested it in the songs Breaking News & All I Need. In breaking news, his vocals are similar to how he sung Jam. All I Need is an unreleased track with vocals similar to Cry & You're Not Alone! Try & prove it yourself! (^_^d"
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So if I want to hear MJ's voice I am limited to Jazz mode? What if I don't want to listen to Jazz mode? I mean, on all other tracks no matter which EQ mode I choose I always hear Michael's voice.

Do you also have a suggestion of another EQ mode to bring the Cascio's singer MJ's accent too?
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I went 2 days with no Monster it was not easy.

ae5173effc5722b7e5a38aefbc30b80a.png
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i always skip that song when it comes on, i cant stand it lol, i also prefer the demo version of the way you love me, it just feels better, though i know that has nothing to do with anything
 
I guess Eddie was pushing the buttons so we don't recognize MJ's voice, and we have to push the buttons in order to find it back.
What Teddy heavily processed, we have to heavily unprocess, how smart. :D
 
My favorite part of Monster is from 3:55-4:30. I hate to admit it but I feel MJ's sort of presence in that part like it's something he'd do, but I'm sure many will disagree!
 
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