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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Question:

If Malachi or some other imposter sang on Monster and Breaking News why was the voice processed so? I think that Jason could have handled Monster and Breaking News without much difficulty. Anyone have any ideas?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

He couldn't. He can't get through any of his songs without processing, whereas Michael had so many moments in his songs where it was completely clear and no stacking or layering, just his beautiful voice leading.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yukon Jack said:
Question:

If Malachi or some other imposter sang on Monster and Breaking News why was the voice processed so? I think that Jason could have handled Monster and Breaking News without much difficulty. Anyone have any ideas?
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Not picking on you... So, Jason can handle Monster and Breaking news with ease. On the other hand, they need to process Michael's voice (if Michael is indeed the vocalist on the tracks). What does it mean? Michael could not handle the songs?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, Jason can handle the songs with ease but Michael's voice was unbearable to listen to when they got it so once it was melodyned and his vibrato was fixed like magic he finally sounds good enough for release. Oh yeah, he also needed stacked and layered with tons of backing vocalists because his voice was way too weak to lead the songs by himself.
 
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love is magical said:
Not picking on you... So, Jason can handle Monster and Breaking news with ease. On the other hand, they need to process Michael's voice (if Michael is indeed the vocalist on the tracks). What does it mean? Michael could not handle the songs?
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What I mean is that Malachi is skilled enough to have delivered those lines without the distortion. I am trying to figure out why, supposing Malachi sang them, do the vocals sound so poor. I am of course not implying that Michael couldn't deliver and out perform Malachi. I am just trying to understand why the voice sounds so processed. . .
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think it's to confuse the listener so it's more difficult to tell, along with the copy-and-pasting. Also, Malachi needs processing's touch to make him sound crisp and clear and all his tones right. If not, he doesn't have as much spark. That's my opinion, anyway.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yukon Jack said:
What I mean is that Malachi is skilled enough to have delivered those lines without the distortion. I am trying to figure out why, supposing Malachi sang them, do the vocals sound so poor. I am of course not implying that Michael couldn't deliver and out perform Malachi. I am just trying to understand why the voice sounds so processed. . .
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What you fail to understand I think is that (melodyned or not):

-IF those songs are Michael, then they are extremely poor (not up to MJ's standards)

-IF those songs are Malachi's, then it is understandable why they sound poor. (up to Jason's standards)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
I think it's to confuse the listener so it's more difficult to tell, along with the copy-and-pasting. Also, Malachi needs processing's touch to make him sound crisp and clear and all his tones right. If not, he doesn't have as much spark. That's my opinion, anyway.
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
What you fail to understand I think is that (melodyned or not):

-IF those songs are Michael, then they are extremely poor (not up to MJ's standards)

-IF those songs are Malachi's, then it is understandable why they sound poor. (up to Jason's standards)
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If Malachi delivered the verses we hear on the contentious tracks, and if they laced it with 1.) distortion and 2.) some tampering with the keys, to throw off the MJ fan-base, it would explain a lot. I think though that an equally plausible explanation would posit MJ as the vocalist whose outline vocals were cut and pasted into the framework of a guide track for the development of the instrumental. The only problem with this second theory is the odd vibrato which, while close to Malachi's and not in keeping with normative MJ vibrato, is the lynchpin in the whole impersonation theory. I say that the vibrato is the lynchpin because it seems fairly plausible that the weak or lackluster delivery of the vocalist is consistent with a track still in the making, a guide for future vocals. . .
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yukon Jack said:
If Malachi delivered the verses we hear on the contentious tracks, and if they laced it with 1.) distortion and 2.) some tampering with the keys, to throw off the MJ fan-base, it would explain a lot. I think though that an equally plausible explanation would posit MJ as the vocalist whose outline vocals were cut and pasted into the framework of a guide track for the development of the instrumental. The only problem with this second theory is the odd vibrato which, while close to Malachi's and not in keeping with normative MJ vibrato, is the lynchpin in the whole impersonation theory. I say that the vibrato is the lynchpin because it seems fairly plausible that the weak or lackluster delivery of the vocalist is consistent with a track still in the making, a guide for future vocals. . .
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Supposedly, the Cascio tracks are co-written by Eddie Cascio and James Porte. A demo, or guide vocal, may have already done by James Porte before 2007. If that's the case, what is the need of a guide vocal from Michael?

Take Fall Again for example, before Michael's demo, a full demo of the song was recorded and sent to Michael. Michael liked it enough to agree to record a demo. The version we all have is a one-take version recorded by Michael while he's watching his children played. What a fantastic job he did!

Take You Are Not Alone for another example, R. Kelly recorded a demo and sent to Michael for his consideration.

My point is that none of the Cascio tracks were created by Michael from scratch. Most likely, demos of the songs were recorded before Michael's stay in NJ in 2007. If that's the case, why would Michael record another version of guide vocal to be replaced later.

Also, we are talking about Michael Jackson - the perfectionist who put 200% of himself in everything he did. As humble as he was, he had a lot of pride in his works. It's out of his character to record half ass works (yes, even the demos are to be replaced later). If he recorded one half ass demo, okay, it's possible. But, 12 half ass demos. Sorry, I really have to wonder.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

:clapping: @ love is magical
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
Supposedly, the Cascio tracks are co-written by Eddie Cascio and James Porte. A demo, or guide vocal, may have already done by James Porte before 2007. If that's the case, what is the need of a guide vocal from Michael?

Take Fall Again for example, before Michael's demo, a full demo of the song was recorded and sent to Michael. Michael liked it enough to agree to record a demo. The version we all have is a one-take version recorded by Michael while he's watching his children played. What a fantastic job he did!

Take You Are Not Alone for another example, R. Kelly recorded a demo and sent to Michael for his consideration.

My point is that none of the Cascio tracks were created by Michael from scratch. Most likely, demos of the songs were recorded before Michael's stay in NJ in 2007. If that's the case, why would Michael record another version of guide vocal to be replaced later.

Also, we are talking about Michael Jackson - the perfectionist who put 200% of himself in everything he did. As humble as he was, he had a lot of pride in his works. It's out of his character to record half ass works (yes, even the demos are to be replaced later). If he recorded one half ass demo, okay, it's possible. But, 12 half ass demos. Sorry, I really have to wonder.
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These are good points. Thank you for raising them. I think though that a demo is different from the "guide vocals" or "rough vocals" I am describing. Tracks, as you know, go through many phases before a demo is completed or a final version is released. Also, in the above you mentioned that Porte already did a guide track for Michael, and the same is true of the R. Kelley song. Supposing this to be the case Michael may have wanted certain changes in the basic structure of the songs and reworked the guide vocals (I think Riley stated somewhere that the vocals were unfinished). My whole point in bringing up this ambiguity is to illustrate that on either side of the argument there is a certain measure of speculation. I agree the vocals sound weak, but as to whether or not they belong to MJ or an imposter I have no idea. . .
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
La-da-da, dee-dee-dee, in the black hills of north Virginia... Another melodic line that I can't get out of my mind...
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he may have been in Virginia when he recorded this? like 2007?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Er... Teddy's having a Twitter meltdown again. Just thought I'd mention it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

:lol: Thanks, Jesta.

:)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

He seems to be talking about being used? Maybe he's referring to the Estate using the Throwback Mix of Hollywood Tonight rather than his album mix.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yukon Jack said:
These are good points. Thank you for raising them. I think though that a demo is different from the "guide vocals" or "rough vocals" I am describing. Tracks, as you know, go through many phases before a demo is completed or a final version is released. Also, in the above you mentioned that Porte already did a guide track for Michael, and the same is true of the R. Kelley song. Supposing this to be the case Michael may have wanted certain changes in the basic structure of the songs and reworked the guide vocals (I think Riley stated somewhere that the vocals were unfinished). My whole point in bringing up this ambiguity is to illustrate that on either side of the argument there is a certain measure of speculation. I agree the vocals sound weak, but as to whether or not they belong to MJ or an imposter I have no idea. . .
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If Michael heard the demo by Porte and he wanted to make changes to the song structure, then Eddie Cascio should be able to provide some evidence that demonstrates Michael's instruction.

For instance, in the Hollywood Tonight, Michael told where the bridge should come. Or, the TWYLM voicemail in which Michael said something about the drums.

So far, six months later, no trace of support is provided or leaked. Again, I have to wonder why.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta said:
He seems to be talking about being used? Maybe he's referring to the Estate using the Throwback Mix of Hollywood Tonight rather than his album mix.
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One of Teddy's melt-down tweet:

NOW I SEE WHY MJ WAS THE WAY HE WAS...MOTHER KATHERINE SAID TO ME ONE DAY YOU REMIND ME OF MICHAEL. I LOVE MY MOTHER SO MUCH, MJ DID TOO.

:doh::doh::doh:

Nah... Teddy, you are no Michael... :puke:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
If Michael heard the demo by Porte and he wanted to make changes to the song structure, then Eddie Cascio should be able to provide some evidence that demonstrates Michael's instruction.

For instance, in the Hollywood Tonight, Michael told where the bridge should come. Or, the TWYLM voicemail in which Michael said something about the drums.

So far, six months later, no trace of support is provided or leaked. Again, I have to wonder why.
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I admit that when the tracks are questioned, i.e., brought into court as it were, failure to produce evidence doesn't help their case. Be that as it may it doesn't give us an open and shut case. I think that the cannonicity of these tracks will always be questioned so long as ample proof is not presented. They will remain a kind of "Michael Jackson apocrypha" of sorts. Still one cannot rule out the possibility that it is MJ unless evidence of a reverse sort is presented, i.e., a real Malachi confession or Cacsio confession, or something comparable. . .
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
It's almost like he felt some of these songs were too good and deserved to be waited on for possibly the next release. That's how it seems to me. Knowing the perfectionist Michael is, he probably just felt they weren't ready, I think everything we've heard from them is better than Invincible or at least as good, as much as I love Invincible!
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I think all these other songs are not R&B..he maybe thought that Invincible is R&B and he would save these for his next album, without Sony :/
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm getting the feeling that Teddy's going to kill himself... His phrasing on Twitter is quite disturbing.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

True, MJearthsong, or maybe Sony was trying to somewhat direct his image and kept off those songs and told him they wanted to save them? I'm not sure.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yukon Jack said:
I admit that when the tracks are questioned, i.e., brought into court as it were, failure to produce evidence doesn't help their case. Be that as it may it doesn't give us an open and shut case. I think that the cannonicity of these tracks will always be questioned so long as ample proof is not presented. They will remain a kind of "Michael Jackson apocrypha" of sorts. Still one cannot rule out the possibility that it is MJ unless evidence of a reverse sort is presented, i.e., a real Malachi confession or Cacsio confession, or something comparable. . .
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I understand your point. Basically, it's the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". Legally speaking, the Cascio tracks are Michael Jackson's unless irrefutable evidence proves the otherwise.

However, as a fan, I have to rely on my own ears and my own knowledge on Michael Jackson to make a decision. Many have said our own senses and instincts are not reliable. But, isn't listening one of the instincts we rely on a daily basis? Also, we have listened to Michael every day for such a long time that we have developed a very intimite relationship with his voice. His voice is imprinted in our minds. Furthermore, we learn a lot about Michael's habits, his work ethics, his skills, his perfectionist standards, his demands on his collaborators.

Overall, these Cascio tracks are just inconsistent with the Michael Jackson we all love.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
Overall, these Cascio tracks are just inconsistent with the Michael Jackson we all love.
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I agree with the sentiment. To be honest I don't know what to think of the Cascio tracks. . .
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Honestly, I enjoy the Cascio tracks. They aren't the greatest songs ever, but they are catchy. Maybe the Cascio's put their hearts in them and wanted to be paid respect for it. Maybe Michael told them, 'sounds good guys' and that's it, they wanted him to sing on it but he declined. Or maybe he never really got a chance to put real vocals on it and they just decided to do it because he supposedly 'wanted to but couldn't'.

That scenario has seemed kind of likely to me before. He could have suggested interest in it but never got the opportunity so they filled it in with Jason or, unlikely, some other vocalist.

I just really don't think it's Michael, but I'd love for the evidence to come out that proves it really is Michael Jackson. That's not going to happen any time soon, though, or ever as we can see.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Have you seen this thread? http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...on-(new-pic)?p=3384921&viewfull=1#post3384921

"March 18th 2007.....

Michael and his friends made around 25 song requests from a variety of artists including Elton John, Billy Joel, The Beatles, The Carpenters and Stevie Wonder and to my amazement Michael sang throughout. His voice was great"

I know it's only one person's opinion but we don't have a lot from around that time
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That's interesting! Great find, thanks! :) I think it'll end up being pretty evident that Michael didn't sound bad at all in 2007.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
Honestly, I enjoy the Cascio tracks. They aren't the greatest songs ever, but they are catchy. Maybe the Cascio's put their hearts in them and wanted to be paid respect for it. Maybe Michael told them, 'sounds good guys' and that's it, they wanted him to sing on it but he declined. Or maybe he never really got a chance to put real vocals on it and they just decided to do it because he supposedly 'wanted to but couldn't'.

That scenario has seemed kind of likely to me before. He could have suggested interest in it but never got the opportunity so they filled it in with Jason or, unlikely, some other vocalist.

I just really don't think it's Michael, but I'd love for the evidence to come out that proves it really is Michael Jackson. That's not going to happen any time soon, though, or ever as we can see.
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Still this wouldn't give them the right to say it's Michael singing on the tracks. If they put their hearts into the songs and were so proud of them, why didn't they try to get successful by their own instead of using and selling their so-called friend and family member? They make me sick.
And I also have no respect at all for Teddy.
Poor Michael! Even the ones whom he thought were his friends betrayed him. What a sick world! :(
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Guys,what's going on with Teddy?
I don't quite understand?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Just listened to the full song of Soldier Boy. I like it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I also like some Jason songs.

Jesta said:
I'm getting the feeling that Teddy's going to kill himself... His phrasing on Twitter is quite disturbing.
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It looks like someone (wife's family?) took his wife and daugther away or something.
 
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