Michael - The Great Album Debate

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Put his career on the line? What career?

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Ah, good hole in my theory, Arklove. However, what Michael would've seen as a gift that just humoured Eddie, perhaps he saw it as something more serious. Perhaps there were tracks that MJ wanted to work on. He recorded 12, there was probably a select few that he was proud of. I'd imagine Eddie thought that because of the sessions he has had with MJ, he wanted to share that. Besides, I could imagine Eddie asking a lot more for 12 fairly complete tracks when the amount of releasable material is allegedly few.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Okay, you're kind of confusing me... you're comparing a speech he gave in 1993 at the Super Bowl to this album recording? What the hell?

Oh puleeze... First, I didn't compare a speech to an album recording. Someone suggested earlier that Michael sounded different because he's messing around and how he sounded so "not himself" during the This Is It announcement. I used the Superbowl speech as an example of how Michael Jackson always sounded like Michael Jackson even if his voice sounded uncharacteristic deep.

Second, I never like the idea of comparing live performance to studio recording. Hence, I prefer comparing demos of In the Back, WHE and Beautiful Girl to the Cascio tracks. And, Michael sounded unmistakenly Michael on all non-Cascio demos.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Ok I just want to get back to the registration issue a second if that's ok. I was looking up the register and the following were registered between 2007 and 2010, What i find interesting is that they are all compilations....no individual tracks registered.

Another thing is that it doesn't say anywhere specifically what they submitted_just that it was an electronic file. The 'music and sound recording' is the category-it doesn't specify the form of what was actually submitted.

give me some time - later tonight I'll post all the details / info taken from the copyright website - I need to check the information databases

but basically

songs can be registered as compilations (cheaper to do so) and for a music /sound registration they need a copy of the audio/music - all of these are written in the handbook (as I said I'll post them later on)

E-file just means that they sent everything online and didn't mail in stuff.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

No, I NEVER said that samhabib, Do Not twist my words!

It DOES sound like Michael Jackson, just weaker, less rehearsed, with at least three years off from recording. Is that so hard to understand?

No, the Cascio session is not the first time he entered a studio after the trial. He recorded with will.i.am in Ireland in 2006.

Again, Hold My Hand and WBSS remix are recorded in 2007. He sounded amazing in both. Why you keep ignoring there are other known existing recordings that sound great around that period?

The argument that he's not ready to sing in 2007 is not valid. Michael Jackson never lost his ability to sing. Period.

And, what do you mean by less rehearsed? We are not talking about live performance. Aren't we talking about demos? Fall Again was recorded in one take. Michael didn't even have time to study the song. Yet, he sounded like Michael Jackson and his vocal was strong in that one-take demo.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Really? While I love "Fall Again", I felt like the backing vocalist slightly overwhelmed his voice in the chorus. Yes he never lost his ability to sing, but warming up your voice is an important part of the song process. In my Drama class I often have to warm up my voice in order to properly play certain characters.

While I would love to stick around and debate a lot, I have a GCSE exam to prepare for. Before I go, I would like to say that even though we have our differences, all of your knowledge is mind-blowing and it is a joy to read, plus you all seem like very nice people! Plus, I'm actually learning a few things from being involved. Bye!!!

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

love_is_magical, thank you for the post. I'm not ignoring them, sorry, I just had forgotten about Ireland in 2006. That's very true, and your other points are good, too.

Like I said, I have doubts and hope this gets resolved soon, but I feel Michael in these songs still, even after listening to them again all day today as well as many of his other songs side by side.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

He recorded with will.i.am in Ireland in 2006.

no proof of that

Again, Hold My Hand and WBSS remix are recorded in 2007. He sounded amazing in both.

false, HMH has been recorded in 2008. WBSS remix is said to use a demo of the original WBSS...

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

loka, the proof of Ireland in 2006 is from a special that like Showtime Tonight did in 2006 where they actually went to the studio, and they interviewed Michael and Will.I.Am.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Hold My Hand was recorded in 2007 - it was LEAKED in 2008...

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Majority of WBSS 2008 is made up of the WBSS demo and Will.I.Am's production. Michael did record vocals with Will.I.Am that can be heard throughout the song.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

loka, the proof of Ireland in 2006 is from a special that like Showtime Tonight did in 2006 where they actually went to the studio, and they interviewed Michael and Will.I.Am.

I know this footage but we "have" no voice recorded from this session

HMH has been recorded in 2007-2008 according to wikipedia

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzkI0iMZqA

Proof of Michael in studio in 2006.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

That's very good observation, but let me ask you this. Suppose the Estate DID hire an impersonator for the tracks. Wouldn't they be required to listen and imitate all of Michael's habits and pronunciations for this deal to go through? They wouldn't hire someone that'd do a transparent job of it.

If an impersonator sounds like Michael Jackson, can copy all of Michael Jackson's singing habits, phrasing, accents, singing techniques, he should have gotten a record deal of his own. He's still an impersonator because even with his best efforts, he still can't sing like the one and only Michael Jackson.

Michael Jackson is a genius. He was a talented vocalist. He's born with a good voice and it took him years and years of hard work to fine tune his technique and his voice. There is no way an impersonator can imitate all of Michael's trademarks.

To me, the vocals sound very fun and casual, almost like a gift to the Cascios, I have thought at times.

Fun and casual? Which part? In my opinion, weak vocals are not the same as casual vocals.

 

[Kapital77]

no proof of that

False, it´s confirmed by the owner of the Studio.

He said that Michael called him and told him that he will be returning to finish the tracks after London Tour.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzkI0iMZqA

Proof of Michael in studio in 2006.

it's not a proof that he did sing...and it's also not a proof that his voice sounded different from the cascios songs that we have

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I know, loka, sorry, I saw your post above mine after I posted that.

I agree with you, I think it's Michael on the Cascio tracks. At least I think that's what you believe, anyway.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

The vocals weren't always weak though, I've personally seen a few people in this thread go from "well it sounds like Michael a little bit, but still doesn't sound enough like him" to "this doesn't sound like Michael at all, these vocals are weak".

IMO the vocals aren't week, they're drowned out by over-production, I can hear Michael's flem in his throat in songs like Breaking News and Monster, the same way such thing can be heard on Bad and We've Had Enough. It just sounds drowned out, to me anyway. I hear the ferociousness (lack of a better term) in his voice, therefore there's no way I can believe that he's not in these songs at all.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I know, loka, sorry, I saw your post above mine after I posted that.

I agree with you, I think it's Michael on the Cascio tracks. At least I think that's what you believe, anyway.

I think it's MJ on the majority of the leads indeed.

this being said : there is another singer on BN and Monster imo.

i also think that they were more rough cut demos ...MJ didn't really sing on BN...like he would have done if it was "for real".

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Majority of WBSS 2008 is made up of the WBSS demo and Will.I.Am's production. Michael did record vocals with Will.I.Am that can be heard throughout the song.

WBSS 2008 featured Akon not will.i.am. I'm not sure if will.i.am was the producer of the WBSS remix. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the T25 remixes, so I didn't study the credit too closely. However, I love that one verse Michael re-recorded.

You might have mistakened WBSS 2008 with PYT 2008. PYT 2008 is made up of Michael's demo with will.i.am's vocals. However, WBSS 2008 featured a lot of Akon and one verse of Michael's 2007 vocal.

 

[Kapital77]

it's not a proof that he did sing...

Not true:

“Michael actually spent most of his time recording in Studio Two. He really seemed to like the sound of that room,” he says.

"Michael was working with people like Rodney Jerkins, Will.i.am and other musicians, but the tracks he recorded were never finished.”

Do you NOW understand LOKA?

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Not true:



Do you NOW understand LOKA?

1- where this quote comes from ?

2- do you have any record of these sessions so we can compare with the cascio songs ?

Do you now understand Kapital77 ?

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

However, WBSS 2008 featured a lot of Akon and one verse of Michael's 2007 vocal.

any proof of that ?

 

[jaXXXon]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I'm really, REALLY surprised at the growing list of excuses as to why Michael Jackson does not sound like Michael Jackson on the 3 Casico tracks. The answer is simple, because it's NOT him!

Listen, Michael is a BEAST in the studio, if anything, Michael would have given 150% in these songs knowing how people may be thinking he was gone and forgotten. Michael dealt with the pressures of fame all his life, it wouldn't alter the tone, strength, pronunciation, skill, depth of his voice! I said it before, ill say it again...if the REAL MJ sang this songs, and you heard it compared to the versions on MICHAEL I feel a lot of the fans fighting for the authenticity of these songs would be astounded and embarrassed that they so easily believed those questionable vocals to be Michael.

I havent heard ONE explanation as to why the vocals/tone/pitch/pronunciation on the Malachi tracks and the Casico tracks are IDENTICAL! And if you think they arent then that is true denial...and if you think the voice on the Casico tracks sound more like Michael than Jason...well, I feel bad that those people cant tell the difference.

I know its hard, we all want Michael back...but ill be damned if I accept those 3 tracks as MJ - thats a total insult to MJ's legacy...is he SO easily replaced?

Accepting those vocals to be MJ would be like seeing E'Casinova in concert and accepting HIM as MJ.

The reasoning about Michael not sounding like himself because of stress, the trial, being older....its baloney. None of it adds up. All I hear are excuses...to me its just as believable as "The dog ate my homework".

In the words of Michael "why do we keep fooling ourselves?"

Listen a little closer people. That is not our Michael. I know, you want to believe it. I wanted to as well before the album came out and all the controversy, but it is what it is.

I really hope the truth comes out one day. Michaels voice had FIRE in it....no matter what..and there is no fire in any of the casico tracks. At the end of the day I feel bad for the fans that cant tell the difference but I guess some of our listening skills are a little more advanced than others.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

the best persons who can identify the voice are americans imo

is there any "consensus" between american fans about the voice or there still debate ?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

it's not a proof that he did sing...and it's also not a proof that his voice sounded different from the cascios songs that we have

Many people assumed that Michael recorded in the Cascio studio because he stayed with his producer friends, slept by the studio and would of course took advantage of the environment and laid out some vocals.

Applying the same logic, Michael was in a studio with will.i.am, one of the most sough-after and popular music producers in 2006, would Michael just hang around with will.i.am in the control room and not sang a word?

Also, will.i.am detailed how hands on Michael was with his music. will.i.am recorded music with Michael. I have no reason to believe will.i.am is a liar. Like him or not, will.i.am is an established name in the business. Unlike Eddie Cascio, will.i.am doesn't need to raise himself by associating with Michael Jackson.

We don't know how the will.i.am collaborations sound. But, one thing I can tell is that Michael had studio experience after the trial and prior to the Cascio sessions. So, the argument that his voice is not warmed up due to the lengthy studio absence is not valid.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

WBSS 2008 featured Akon not will.i.am. I'm not sure if will.i.am was the producer of the WBSS remix. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the T25 remixes, so I didn't study the credit too closely. However, I love that one verse Michael re-recorded.

You might have mistakened WBSS 2008 with PYT 2008. PYT 2008 is made up of Michael's demo with will.i.am's vocals. However, WBSS 2008 featured a lot of Akon and one verse of Michael's 2007 vocal.

Yea you're right, I was thinking of PYT. But yes, WBSS 2008 was re-recorded with new vocals.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Many people assumed that Michael recorded in the Cascio studio because he stayed with his producer friends, slept by the studio and would of course took advantage of the environment and laid out some vocals.

Applying the same logic, Michael was in a studio with will.i.am, one of the most sough-after and popular music producers in 2006, would Michael just hang around with will.i.am in the control room and not sang a word?

Also, will.i.am detailed how hands on Michael was with his music. will.i.am recorded music with Michael. I have no reason to believe will.i.am is a liar. Like him or not, will.i.am is an established name in the business. Unlike Eddie Cascio, will.i.am doesn't need to raise himself by associating with Michael Jackson.

We don't know how the will.i.am collaborations sound. But, one thing I can tell is that Michael had studio experience after the trial and prior to the Cascio sessions. So, the argument that his voice is not warmed up due to the lengthy studio absence is not valid.

Did Will I am stated that "it was not mj's voice on the cascio tracks" ?

No he didnt !

he did say "that it was not the work of the perfectionist MJ"

proof that he recognized MJ in the cascio Songs ?

once again, we don't have the recorded sessions of "mj and will i am"

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Yea you're right, I was thinking of PYT. But yes, WBSS 2008 was re-recorded with new vocals.

any proof ?

Which verse ?

everybody asks for proof for the cascio's songs

i hope you will understand if i ask proof for other sessions...

 

[Kapital77]

1- where this quote comes from ?

2- do you have any record of these sessions so we can compare with the cascio songs ?

Do you now understand Kapital77 ?

LOKA, is impossible with you.

I prefer don´t wasting my time trying to show you that you are completely wrong in many things that you said.

It´s impossible that you will understand that Malachi´s voice is the one from the Cascio´s tracks or that Mj worked with Will i am and Rodney Jerkins in Ireland Studio.

You are against whatever anyone told you about fake tracks on "MICHAEL".