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Madonna or MJ? Who Was a Better Visonary and Pioneer?

JoeyMJFan said:
answer is easy in terms of 'pioneering'; like someone else pointed out, it's just simple mathmetics -- madonna 1st released a song by the end of 83. in contrast michael was already around for 15 yrs, starred in the quintessential 'teen idol' group that's spawned countless but less successful imitators, ushered in ground-breaking videos w/ can you feel it, and created pop culture history with his performance at motown 25 -- all before most people even heard of madonna.

in no way am i putting down madonna, but it's just a strange question to ask who is the bigger pioneer when one has a 15 yr head-start. you may want to examine the success from 1983 to present day for a more accurate comparison. and success is a relative term anyway. i'd just leave it as two talented artists who impacted music/videos/fashion, sold lots of records, sold out lots of concerts, re-invented their looks, and hopefully will live happily ever after.
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I wouldn't say Michael had a 15yr head start over Madonna, as an advatange from a mathmatic view. When Michael and Madonna started their careers has nothing to do with pinoneering. The fact Michael as as a solo artists never invented music video The Beatles did and other artists such as David Bowie, Queen, Adam & The Ants, The Jacksons and Duran Duran added further innovation to music video. What Michael did with the Thriller album on Billie Jean, Beat It and Thriller was dance which hadn't really been seen in music video propely before, because music videos were mainly non liner serealist films, and with Michael's dancing he added an extra energy and made the music even more alive in video. With Michael's Thriller video, he took it from just being a mini clip format and turned music video on it's head on to movie scale production with special effects, and with Black Or White he used visual effects only seen in movies like Terminatior 2 etc and once again other arists followed.

In music Michael fused rock, pop and dance music togther with songs like Beat It and Speed Demon, that have influenced groups like the Prodigy. With Thriller he was the first artist to release an album with different genre of songs on it which many artists once again have followed. Michael has created new things and brought things from the underground years before they were popular with young people all over the world and populized them.

A template for Madonna, by Michael Jackson, Prince and David Bowie. She's a taken a bits of all of them, and because she's a women no one has said "she's copying Michael Jackson or David Bowie in that" etc, as they do with Justin Timberlake with his Michael Jackson and Prince influence. Madonna hasn't added to or improved anything on the template that was their when she started. I don't like her or her music, but I would never say she's crap or talentless because she's not. Her innovation is purely conceptual, not asthetic which is what innovation in music, video and dancing etc is. Her concept has been the role and how women are viewed in music, and she took the rule of the powerful and dominate male, turned around to a female who's powerful, dominate and in control. Many female artists now use that concept as part of their persona, that is the reason Madonna is an icon and deservedly so. But music wise, hasn't in my view be an innovator.
 
Madonna's videos were creative back in middle of 80 to middle of 90s, before and after she was not as good. Yes, she had some good videos in this time, but now she's not into it anymore. Same with Janet she too used to be as innovative as Michael but with the time she left it and now she's as creative as everyone else.
 
Janet has never been as innovative as Michael. I think the question of this thread should have been "Madonna or Janet Jackson? Who Was a Better Visonary and Pioneer?", because neither of them as far progression of music, video and performance changed the genre like Michael did. I'm sure even Janet would agree that she's not an innovator like Michael.
 
It is natural for fans of Michael does not like Madonna.
As there are thousands of people who do not like Michael's, just as happens with Madonna. Well, I have never heard such a rivalry between the two: who sings more (I have seen several of the interview Madonna said: "I know that I do not have a great voice.":)), who dances better, who won more awards... the press have created this rivalry. This novel: Michael x Madonna has gone on for years. I love and admire the Madonna, it is clear that Michael is pioneer greatest artist and the music. Michael is pure talent and Madonna is behavior, both are essential and fundamental to the music. When Madonna appeared, Michael was already light years ahead of her. But nobody can deny that as well as Michael, Madonna has significance in the music scene, people like it or not, it still remains the Queen of Pop does not appear as its substitute (some of Brazilian music magazines are saying that the Lady Gaga is the new Madonna...). It is obvious that like Michael, Madonna is a great inspiration for the new pop singers, they all admire Madonna.​


And you know... I think the maximum would be a duet of Madonna and Michael... would come to history, but only in the dream, that never happens!​

Michael x Madonna is a thread that will never end...​
 
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MJ all the way. Madonna or anybody else, first and foremost, should have amazing talent in them, before we can begin considering putting them beside MJ in the same sentence for comparison. Madonna, IMO, don't have it.

She knows how to survive and have survived in the dog-eat-dog show business, but if we focus strictly on pure talent in areas of singing and dancing, she's average at best. Take away all the hype and visual images and symbolic features some people add to her persona in the name of feminism and then look at her. The moment you do that, she becomes instantly reduced from the Madonna to just another cookie-cutter entertainer you can see in every era of the music business.

MJ, on the other hand, got both the talent and the influential power. Let's not forget fam, everything from uh..glamorous visuals and groundbreaking records to attractively packaged products, all the external and commercial achievements, there is his amazing talent beneath all of them. His talent, nobody can ever take it from him and it's totally his own. Becuz he's got that amazing talent, everything he's achieved commerically shines even more brightly, IMO.

This is why she can never be invited to put in the same sentence as MJ. In a nutshell, being a visionary and pioneer starts with having undeniable talent within someone.
 
ashtanga said:
Madonna has significance in the music scene, people like it or not, it still remains the Queen of Pop does not appear as its substitute (some of Brazilian music magazines are saying that the Lady Gaga is the new Madonna...). It is obvious that like Michael, Madonna is a great inspiration for the new pop singers, they all admire Madonna.​
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Good post, but as someone who doesn't like Madonna I agree with your above comments. Madonna isn't an innovator, but as far as pushing the boundiers for the type of persona and how famale pop stars perform, and how much control they can have over their career, Madonna is with doubt a huge inspiration to female artists and acts. That's why I have no problem with her being the Queen of Pop or her significance in music for the reasons you have pointed out.

Madonna can't compete with Michael on talent, innovation and commercial success. Only on the fame, and even on that Michael is a far bigger icon. She's an icon and Michael's a Living Legend.
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benscarr said:
Michael Jackson vs Madonna, should it be Michael Jackson vs Prince as in Genius vs Geinus, as Madonna isn't a genius and Michael is.

Madonna released her first single at the end of 1983 and because a big name in 1984. By them Michael had set the a new template in music, video and singing, dancing and touring. Madonna never added anything innovative in music, plus Michael was the first and ultimate MTV star.

Madonna jumps on trends, she doesn't create them. Yeah Michael didn't invent the Moonwalk, but he used the move out of the street dancing it was part of and gave it a style and magic it never had and he was doing the Robot dance a decade before it was popular all over the world. Madonna has never been ahead of her time, just of her time.
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-the man said it all. :agree:
 
benscarr said:
Good post, but as someone who doesn't like Madonna I agree with your above comments. Madonna isn't an innovator, but as far as pushing the boundiers for the type of persona and how famale pop stars perform, and how much control they can have over their career, Madonna is with doubt a huge inspiration to female artists and acts. That's why I have no problem with her being the Queen of Pop or her significance in music for the reasons you have pointed out.​

Madonna can't compete with Michael on talent, innovation and commercial success. Only on the fame, and even on that Michael is a far bigger icon. She's an icon and Michael's a Living Legend.​
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Thanks! Well, I love Michael and Madonna to admire and follow his career. You said "fame". I see both at the same time that each one works his talent and career in different way, the two have different foci, but still are at the same time in question "fame." Both are loved and admired by his fans worldwide and I say this that are the only artists that I see is so loved and admired by his fans. Just as Michael is with us, Madonna also has a large audience. Where Michael is he attracts thousands of fans, with Madonna the same thing. Just see the public on tours of two: thousands of fans, tickets sold out and packed tours in minutes. Wherever they go, they devastated. And I believe there is any rivalry between them, they know they are the best and greatest of pop music and that will always refer to the new artists, that is impossible to talk about pop music without talking about Michael and Madonna. So I'm sure that they are not friends, the two meet that you know how valuable they are to the music. The years will pass and the press, people will continue talking bad of the two, comparing the two (this is ridiculous why are two artists with completely different points) and not many people will continue enjoying them for several reasons. We must remember that before the artist is behind a human being must be respected. It is fact that they will always be the King and Queen that so far has not arisen anyone better than them. And the two continue doing their job with great responsibility for many years. :yes:
 
bgz said:
Not to sound arrogant here, but this is an MJ board, right? So I agree with Dangerous Inc's post.

Michael, Madonna, Prince, Beatles, etc., they all have their loyal followers and believe their choice is the truth/best.

Personally, I think each person/group I mentioned has a remarkable history, period. I post on MJJC because Michael is someone that interests me above the others, but I cannot ever deny the other artists mentioned relativity in music.

jmo
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agree! and they all have "their place" in history.

I feel MJ kicked down the door for more artists to have more expression in visual treatments of songs in genres across the board, he raised the standard of music production and made the world get up and dance no matter what else they may have been doing. His dancing is revolutionary in itself - MJ's just so far beyond compare all in all - it would take to long

Madonna kicked down the door for females in the fame game, in that she gave everyone permission to take off their clothes, wear beautiful bras in public, male back up dancers - that whole thing - and she revolutionized music too - she showed that with very marginal vocal ability, anyone willing to get naked and stay in the game could make it and look how many have.

I feel Prince gave hope and inspiration to all the guys who'd idolized Jimmi Hendrix and Sly Stone - none really singing/dancing, mostly musical showmanship

They all have their place. :yes:
 
lol..still, IMO, these comparison threads are dangerous to put up, cus bickering and false accusations of hating on other artists, as well as hating on other artists can happen. didn't i remember MJJC mod 1 having a problem with threads like this?
 
hahaha so pointless to ask this. Not only on a MJ forum but in general!
 
KB50MJ said:
WHo was a better visionary and pioneer in the music video, live performances, and everything else.
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Really? :unsure:

Music Videos:

The fact that "Thriller" is the blueprint for music videos > every Madonna video

Live performances:

Motown 25 > every Madonna performance

Everything else:

Mike's hair in the DSTYGE video > Madonna's life

:coffee:
 
Why do people post such stupid threads about things like this?
Why bring debates like this to a MJ message board?
Personally this is the wrong place.
Your all supposed to be 'fans' so why do you even want question things like this?
We joined this forum to talk about the worlds greatest artist MICHAEL JACKSON,not madonna no one else MICHAEL JACKSON.
 
Jona said:
Don't worry about me. All I'm going to point out is the interesting quotes about Madonna being all about image [the whole laughable "She hasn't inspired anyone and I'm not a bitter hater" song and dance] as opposed to MJ. That's interesting. Last time I checked MJ is an incredibly visual artist. More often than not controversy swirled around what he was doing personally or in a video [wearing, hair, etc] rather than what he was singing or dancing to. Michael is obviously a very talented artist but it would be in vain to suggest he didn't use image heavily in his career. Why do you think he fell so hard after 1993? Image. And something to remember.... there are actually those of us out there who do find Madonna very talented. People who find messages in her music and take inspiration. I get tired of non fans speaking as though what they say is the gospel truth. Madonna rose from nothing, working harder than all the rest, to become what she is today- a self made entity and one of the last true icons/megastars.
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well said!
 
and talking about records, Madonna's sticky&sweet tour is the #1 Highest Grossing Tour Of Any Solo Artist...
 
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