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Losing My (Organized) Religion

Nothing brings this subject to the table like death does, I'll tell ya. My best friend's mom died Wednesday after a long illness and we actually discussed what different organized religions teach about death (and the afterlife/resurrection/new world). She was a spiritually curious woman, having converted from Catholicism to Judaism, to Buddhism (she spent time in Tibet long before she had children) and back to Catholicism, lol! Mom (she "adopted" me and was the only other woman I called Mom after mine died) wasn't sure what the afterlife offered or even if it was real, but she said she hoped it was and that it'll be beautiful.

She wanted to "be with god" and requested hospice service the last week of her life. There was something about her that was so peaceful, so accepting of the end that went beyond anything a doctrine could teach. She said it isn't found in a book and she couldn't explain it, but she was so CALM. Mom was in a lot of pain prior to the hospice care and maybe the calmness she felt before she died was knowing she'd be free from the pain, or maybe the truth of what happens/where we go after we die is revealed as we die?

I just wish we could know for sure long before our lives end! It's the unknown that gnaws at a control freak like me. :doh:

Another person gone that I loved deeply. . . :cry:

I can see where the resurrection hope is comforting (and it is), but I can also see where it is used to soften the blow that death is permanent.
 
Yeah that whole 'calmness' factor is the reason why i believe there's "more to life than this" - so many people experience it when they come close to death. Or they miraculously get better/happier/more energetic before they die.

Or...even more so, the calmness factor perhaps tells us there's nothing to worry about. And really, isn't that the comfort we need? We don't have to know exactly what HAPPENS when we die. But that sense of peace surely gives us a sign that whatever does happen - we need not worry about it while we live our lives.

It actually reminds me of the whole 'higher consciousness' thing I talked about. Tolle (in his second book I'm reading) spoke of the idea of losing all identification with not just things in this world when close to death, but the body too. Because nothing of that is real or lasting. So that sense of calmness perhaps is the act of removing attachment from the physical so you can move into something more - the spiritual, the true essence of self that need not be attached to the body.
 
Death isn't something I worry about, never have. There isn't anything unknown about it at all, so that fear factor doesn't apply to me. Speaking from my experience only (going back to childhood), the reality of death has been sugar coated and lied about in order to cushion the blow of the finality of life as we know it. The "gone home to Jesus" and other such nonsense told just creates this false sense of immortality that we're not 100% sure exists. It shouldn't be taught as a FACT; keep it as a matter of hope/faith.

Energy transforms and I do believe our souls (for lack of a less religious-sounding word) are energy. What does it transform into when our bodies die I don't know, won't know until I do.

The last funeral I actually attended was over 10 years ago and the altar call segment of it was why I stopped attending them. For those that have a Southern Baptist/Pentacost Christian background, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. That was probably the jump off point for me to begin questioning the validity between god(s) and organized religion.
 
But isn't the finality of death the scary part? That's the struggle for me - and why I have a hard time believing that death is completely the end.... Not so much not knowing what happens, as long as something DOES happen and it's not just *poof!* - nothing. My consciousness obviously wants to survive and the concept of just not existing anymore - period - just scares the hell out of me. If you believe that death is really all there is - how do you make peace with it? Cuz I feel like even if I live my life to the absolute fullest and have no regrets... The concept of not existing anymore just doesn't peacefully register in my brain lol.

Also yes - as a kid I went to a crap ton of baptist funerals and got that horrible uncomfortable judged feeling when they do alter calls. It also made me question and made me extremely fascinated with death in my fiction writing.
 
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J5master said:
But isn't the finality of death the scary part? That's the struggle for me - and why I have a hard time believing that death is completely the end.... Not so much not knowing what happens, as long as something DOES happen and it's not just *poof!* - nothing. My consciousness obviously wants to survive and the concept of just not existing anymore - period - just scares the hell out of me. If you believe that death is really all there is - how do you make peace with it? Cuz I feel like even if I live my life to the absolute fullest and have no regrets... The concept of not existing anymore just doesn't peacefully register in my brain lol.


Also yes - as a kid I went to a crap ton of baptist funerals and got that horrible uncomfortable judged feeling when they do alter calls. It also made me question and made me extremely fascinated with death in my fiction writing.
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I'm the odd bird that actually sees a bit of RELIEF in the finality of death, J5, lol! Knowing and embracing that we are not immortal actually makes me appreciate life more, appreciate the gift that it is and not to waste it. I'm fascinated with nature and the sky (I'm forever snapping pics of clouds, the mountains, flowers, animals, you name it) for that very reason. . .it is beautiful and I'm awed by it. Life itself, even in the midst of the ugly bits, is beautiful and shouldn't be viewed as the opening act to another world we aren't sure is real.

"Here's To Life" by Shirley Horn is one of my favorite songs that sums it up perfectly (for me).

 
Oh yes - I grew out of the Christian tendency to believe life now is something we pass over or just need to "get through" in order to get to another world. So I do appreciate life more as it is now.

However I tend to think of it as a cycle - just like anything else in life. Just because we COULD be moving on to something else doesn't mean we can't appreciate what we have now. It's kind of like children (oh no I feel a MJ moment coming on lol) - they tend to appreciate the "now" more than adults do because they have no sense of time - or they don't worry about it as much as adults. That's kind of what I think (or rather hope in some ways) the life cycle is like. Kids appreciate being kids and living that childhood to the fullest even if they will move on to adulthood. And we as living beings should appreciate living in a physical world even if we might move on to something else. Because what we had in childhood we won't get back (well, unless you're MJ and can get six flags in your backyard lol) - just like being in a physical world.


But I have to admit though - appreciating life now definitely doesn't make me feel better about the concept of eventually not existing anymore. Lol sure it'll be a relief to die and this "life" as I know it will be over. That finality is fine - as immortality seems tiring lol but - I desire to BE, in essence. In some shape or form I'd like an ending to be the beginning of something, like all other things in life. (Shivers!) ngl entertaining the notion of not existing anymore scares the bejesus out of me lol partially because if I believe that - then I'll believe there is no soul or a spiritual self. And I guess I've had too many experiences that would prevent me from NOT believing something spiritual in people exists.
 
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:photoflash: You reminded me of what my late sister Phyllis said about not wanting to accept ceasing to be, lol! "I know I'm going to die someday, but I'm too fabulous to accept that this life is IT!" She was larger than life, much more outgoing and social than I could ever be and was the star of the family, really. Well, that huge personality, that charisma has been silent ever since she died, so I remain skeptical (but still a wee bit hopeful) that there is something else, that she didn't cease to be.

I can't fathom immortality either, don't find it interesting. That horrified my JW relatives, who are focused on getting their rewards in the new world (and they do view life as something to bear, an opening act). I half joked that it might be appealing if I could have my own private island full of cats, good books, good music and Michael Jackson, ROFLMAO! :hysterical:
 
Sorry this is a bit off topic but I had to share.

I'm reading Eckhart Tolle's second book (from 2005, the other book that was a prelude to that one was made in 1997). And ONE paragraph/sentence jumped out at me like the book just slapped me in the face! LOL For multiple reasons:

"There are three words that convey the secret of the art of living, the secret of all success and happiness: One with Life. Being one with life is being one with Now. You then realize that you don't live you're life but life lives you. Life is the dancer and you are the dance."
Sounds familiar?

It reminded me exactly of Michael's book Dancing the Dream, the very book that made me a fan of MJ as a person. The very book that had me in tears everytime I read it as a kid because it spoke so much truth to me, on an intellectual and spiritual level.

And a lot of those messages are repeated in Tolle's book, and Tolle's thoughts mirror Michael's. Here are a couple:

"Sometimes the heart is so heavy that we turn away from it and forget that its throbbing is the wisest message of life, a wordless message that says, "Live, be, move, rejoice -- you are alive!" Without the heart's wise rhythm, we could not exist.”

“But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form. I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence. The infinity of God's creation embraces me.”

"On many an occasion when I am dancing, I have felt touched by something sacred. In those moments, I felt my spirit soar and become one with everything that exists. I become the stars and the moon. I become the lover and the beloved. I become the victor and the vanquished. I become the master and the slave. I become the singer and the song. I become the knower and the known. I keep on dancing and then, it is the eternal dance of creation. The Creator and the creation merge into one wholeness of joy. I keep on dancing — until there is only ... the dance."

Plus Tolle has a good paragraph about the nature of parenting and how parents have the tendency to take on the role of being superior than the child, when really the parent and the child are equals. He also expressed the importance of discovering the playfulness of life, like a child, which is essentially BEING. As, in his words, "Adults take life too seriously." lol

Its wild how intuitive MJ was in this way - though Deepak Chopra was his spiritual advisor for a time (setting aside for a moment my many grievances about him), and Chopra and Tolle seem to share the same beliefs. So it makes sense. But still, I often think about MJ when I read books like this because so much of it reminds me of those little nuggets of wisdom MJ always let out during his writings or his interviews or just talking about life itself. I googled Tolle and MJ and came up with some interesting articles.

Tolle had this to say about MJ:

"You’ll probably laugh but I saw Michael Jackson on TV the other day. Even if you say that he’s strange, he’s weird — that’s what people say — the moment he goes into the music mode, something takes over. Woosh. Wow. What was that? He actually said that you can’t think, it doesn’t come from thinking. You can learn the externals but not the essence. So the moment he switches into music notes, an energy takes over. It’s beautiful.And the moment he stops, there’s an ordinary, strange human being — well, everybody is strange. Some are more strange than others. The question is: is it possible not to just have access to that in a little area of one’s life but live in that state where you are no longer a puppet of your conditioning."

He also said in his book: "In a world of role-playing personalities, those few people who don't project a mind-made image -- and there are some even on TV, in the media, and the business world -- but function from the deeper core of their Being, those who do not attempt to appear more than they are but are simply themselves, stand out as remarkable and are the only one who truly make a difference in this world. They are the bringers of the new consciousness. Whatever they do becomes empowered because it is in alignment with the purpose of the whole. Their influence, however, goes far beyond what they do, far beyond their function. Their mere presence -- simple, natural, unassuming -- has a transformational effect on whoever they come into contact with."


I think that's really cool how all of this criss crosses so to speak.
 
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:2cents: What I zeroed in on and had an "AMEN" shout out for was the comment about those that don't create a mind image of themselves. They either have no need for it or no desire to do so and I'd fall into the latter category. It speaks of the fakeness of society as a whole; putting on airs, frontin' and/or afraid to be true to themselves, be themselves. How can one free their mind and raise their consciousness if they're using precious energy maintaining a mental/spiritual smokescreen?

With me what you see is what you get; straight no chaser. People that I have initially conversed with online later told me (after we met face-to-face) that I am EXACTLY the same in person that they met online and I don't know why they are surprised by that, lol! That's where I credit my holy roller upbringing, those songs, that message that "the TRUTH will set you free".

Maybe it stems from people not being comfortable with who they are or afraid no one would like/love the true self if they let it rip (so to speak)?
 
^^^ Funny you should say that because I'm reading ANOTHER book that just said something quite relevant (I'm reading like 3 books at the same time right now lol).

From "Don't Call Me Inspirational: A Disabled Feminist Talks Back" - she has cerebral palsy and the book is about her journey as a disabled woman. But she said this: "I need to keep discovering new way to be out there in the world as myself, with myself, with no need to cover up or pretend. I'm betting on the fact that ultimately, being exactly who I am, a woman with CP, will give me the best shot at having the kind of life I want. Definitely it will give me the most energy for creating a good life. Covering up my disability identity has zapped a lot of energy that could be used for more important endeavors, like painting or falling in love."

I think its so interesting - and some might view the fact that she has a disability as a more intense level of this, but I don't really. Its the same thing, just different make up. But we all experience a level of this. We all want to play a role and I think its perpetuated by society, because it is in the 'norm' to pretend to be 'normal' (whatever that means) - and to downgrade anything that is not in that realm or whatever people are too lazy to try and understand. So thats where the tendency to deny oneself comes from I think. People want to impress and not be rejected. Its where conformity comes from.

I'm guilty of it too - even in a mild way - I act differently depending on who I'm talking to and I think most people do that. I'm a different person with my mom than I am with my boss or my best friend or you guys on here. Its kind of engrained that it is a social norm to be that way but I find it admirable for people who are able to be themselves no matter what situation. It shows that you can be at peace with what IS - or just being you. At any point. At any time. No matter who you're talking to.
 
J5master said:
^^^ Funny you should say that because I'm reading ANOTHER book that just said something quite relevant (I'm reading like 3 books at the same time right now lol).

From "Don't Call Me Inspirational: A Disabled Feminist Talks Back" - she has cerebral palsy and the book is about her journey as a disabled woman. But she said this: "I need to keep discovering new way to be out there in the world as myself, with myself, with no need to cover up or pretend. I'm betting on the fact that ultimately, being exactly who I am, a woman with CP, will give me the best shot at having the kind of life I want. Definitely it will give me the most energy for creating a good life. Covering up my disability identity has zapped a lot of energy that could be used for more important endeavors, like painting or falling in love."

I think its so interesting - and some might view the fact that she has a disability as a more intense level of this, but I don't really. Its the same thing, just different make up. But we all experience a level of this. We all want to play a role and I think its perpetuated by society, because it is in the 'norm' to pretend to be 'normal' (whatever that means) - and to downgrade anything that is not in that realm or whatever people are too lazy to try and understand. So thats where the tendency to deny oneself comes from I think. People want to impress and not be rejected. Its where conformity comes from.

I'm guilty of it too - even in a mild way - I act differently depending on who I'm talking to and I think most people do that. I'm a different person with my mom than I am with my boss or my best friend or you guys on here. Its kind of engrained that it is a social norm to be that way but I find it admirable for people who are able to be themselves no matter what situation. It shows that you can be at peace with what IS - or just being you. At any point. At any time. No matter who you're talking to.
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:rofl: I kid you not, conforming to please people/be liked is foreign to me, something that is instantly red flagged when I'm approached with it. Even when I was in boot camp (Air Force) I didn't lose myself, nor did I become a different person (which is why it was the best for me and the military that I only did one term, lol).

I think some people confuse adjusting behavior (in different situations) with changing personalities. For instance, I wouldn't use my Soldier Field voice in a LIBRARY. . .I'd change my tone to fit situation, but I'm still ME. Whether I'm talking to my uncle who is an elder in his congregation or my uncle who hasn't attended any kind of religious mass (in years), I'm still ME. The way I see it, if someone is changing their personality, that's a self esteem issue.

One of the red flags that fly during my break from organized religion is that conformity. "Become a new person": change your dress, your taste in music, the movies you like, the sports you watch, etc. etc. sounds like some Stepford Wives shit and I'm not down with that at ALL, lol! What does my choice in music, clothes and sports have to do with who I am in the creator's eyes? He already KNOWS me, so why should I conform to what PEOPLE think I should be? People can kiss my ass, girl, BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:crackingup:
 
I really must thank you all for this thread and what you have said. I'm kinda in the same boat myself right now. I was raised Catholic and really had no problem with it growing up. I really was all for the stories and parables to help make one a good person. I will still defend those to this day because it did help shape who I am. I was even an alter server at one point in my life when I was little. But it just seemed like the older I get, and the view of Christianity that I kept seeing seems more and more unstable and closed minded to me than I remember it being. It's like I don't even recognize it anymore...that it wasn't how it was supposed to be. So wanting to get away from that some, I've been going a bit more towards Buddhism and the Japanese Shintoism, since they're both about living in the now and being more connected with yourself and with nature. I just feel now that I shouldn't have to just go to a church to feel in touch with God. I can look right outside my window and see the divine. I can go within myself and feel the divine. I've also gotten introduced to chakras and meditation through the yoga classes I've started taking which has really helped me grow spiritually. My only problem I seem to be having now is with my mom getting deeper and deeper into the Christianity and watching the Vision channel a lot which lots of it seems to be more mindless preaching and just quoting the Bible, which I'm not too fond of. She does talk about being open minded and we can talk about my being more spiritual and exploring different things outside of Christianity like Buddhism and such. For the most part she seems fine with it. But then it's the other parts that I come across are her still insisting that I don't lose my faith...to know Jesus as the Lord and Savior and such. But then that's confusing me, going from open and close minded that I don't know which side she's really wanting to go with. Like I have no issue with going to church with her around Christmas time...at least I feel that it's a more peaceful time to go...but with her wanting to go for Easter, I feel I have a bit more of an issue with it. I feel like I don't want to focus on death at a time where it should be about celebrating the renewal of life with springtime and the weather getting warmer. Even lately, being in church...seeing Jesus on the cross...I couldn't help but think if this is really what he wanted...to be portrayed this way...he was a man of love and peace...how is that the image that we must associate with him? I really just felt sad...and more so that I have to have this kind of conflict going on inside me between being religious and being more spiritual without forgetting my roots .
 
I'm a monotheist, I believe in God, but I don't adhere to any religion. I ruled out Christianity immediately cause I don't believe in Jesus's deity. On the other hand, I don't feel like joining any religion because it would mean advocating someone else's actions to people who blame the entire religious group.

I've got some Jewish ancestors, but somewhat feel closer to Islam and Bahaism.
 
hello.
I didn´t read all the messages.
But ill share what i have. my apologies if it would offend someone of you.

I believe in the Christ Yeshua son of God.
I have brothers in Christ that came out from catholic/Jehovah witnees/batist/occultims/all the asia stuff including yoga to go
to the only way, life and truth Jesus (Yeshua).

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Some of them are older now near 70 years old i learn a lot by their experiences.
If they are right? not sure but we all came to the conclusion the we are all lost thats why we need a Saviour the lamb of God.
The ultimate and last "animal"sacrifice. (not sure if jews sacrifice animals since the temple is destroyed)

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-10

not works, effort or meditation is by grace and faith only that will lead to good works naturally.

"Men" inveted many ways that will lead to "Rome".
Like in the past inveted many gods.
nowadays are many religions.
and confusion thats the Babylon. like the Babylon in the past.
the story will repeat itself.

In the last book of the Bible:
the supposelly bride of the Christ will "cheat" on him

A mysterious name was written on her forehead: "Babylon the Great, Mother of All Prostitutes and Obscenities in the World."
Revelation 17:5

I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God's holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. Revelation 17:6

Women in the Bible is a group of: people/religion or church
by read these verses you know she is the Mother of other prostitutes (religions)
that came out of her.

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;Revelation 18:4

my tip to you is come out of any religion and go to Jesus. We are all sinners me to and you can´t save yourself you need a Saviour.

“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

Sorry if i hurt someone or if is to much info to process:angel:
Dont beleive everything i said search in the scriptures pray and ask the Father for the Holy Spirit to guide you
to all the knowledge and discernment.

.

If you have any doubt about religion/freemanson/satanism/illuminati/new world order (asia /yoga stuff too) feel free to ask me ill ask my brothers if can help you. I rather talk about Yeshua.

"Silver or gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."
The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.
"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (of many, many MANY things)

Acts 3:6 /1 Corinthians 16:23/John 8:32

:ciao:
 
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