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Let's Be Honest Here,Michael Was Ill

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Things I do for you said:
I'll reply to you rather than the fans that think autopsy reports and weighing organs (I mean,ffs) constitute being a fan.

Do you personally,directly at you this question,think MJ was fit and capable of doing a 50 night show?

Do the weight loss and sedatives equate a man at the top of his game to you?

Use some rational here people please!
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Since the man is dead, we really cannot answer that, can we?

You said he looked ill at the rehearsals. You didn't say whether if he could do 50 concerts. Given the fact he was dancing his butt off and Michael said himself he loses 10 to 15 pounds every time he perform, no shit he is going to lose weight. That is common sense.

Also, Michael took these sedatives during the History Tour, which was when he was at his heaviest and he didn't die. So, your logic is flaw from the get go.

I suggest you do some research before you open your mouth. It make you look ignorance.
 
Things I do for you said:
My opinion is as valid as yours.

Take it or leave it.

If,following the mans career since he was a Jackson,you looked at the screen and thought "he looks healthy" then you're mental.

"there are none so blind as those that refuse to see"
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That is your problem. We are not basing what we are saying on 'opinion'. We are basing it on facts, which you chose to ignore. Which is fine, but do not force feed your opinions like it is the truth.

Even the people who believe in the moon conspiracy uses some bases of facts and truth to back up their claims.
 
Thin does not mean ill, I have always been stick thin, I eat normally and am rarely ill (touch wood!) The autopsy report said he was healthy.

If Murrey is brought to trial no doubt we will all know the exact state of his health, until then, I think if he was rehearsing as people said he obviously felt ok, that is until the murderer Murrey got his hands on him.
 
My cousin had jeans just like those and he legs looked like sticks, your point? The last time I check, skinny did equal not healthy.

Also, I have the feeling you never looked at Thriller recently? Also, it doesn't matter what you and I think. The facts do not lie. It is annoying like that.
 
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Things I do for you said:
He was dancing,but c'mon,in those red trousers? his legs were like pipe cleaners! Michael had never been that thin.

I guess I'm picking up on the gaunt look as it really took me aback, but we all know he wasn't well.

You do know that right?

right?
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I, for one, DO know that. And right, not all "opinions" are equal. Some of us have been quietly but with incredible dedication, "investigating" since June 25 and have amassed a large amount of factual material. You would not walk into a party and argue with a physicist about quantum physics, would you? That would make no sense. Anyone who cares to can accumulate facts, and it's ok if you don't. But if you don't, then please. . . not everyone here is an "expert." But. . SOME actually ARE.

The arguing, already, in this thread, right here, is exemplary of the primary reason why I left as staff after SIX YEARS. I did investigations during the trial, published my findings widely, and I was RIGHT. I am RIGHT, again, actually, whether or not some choose to believe it and/or trust in my experience and that of other "old-guard," "trial-survivors." My investigation skills have not become LESS over the years, but MORE.

I have total sympathy for those who want to keep an image of Michael intact and dwell only in the world of positivity. I understand. What I do NOT understand is why you would interfere with those who DO want to know what happened, and for some reason, who have the emotional stamina for it? If you don't KNOW . . . . .then you don't. That's ok. But why the violence toward those who take a different approach to coping with Michael's death, and are trying to make a difference, for his children?

If this thread is disturbing to some, I understand. But why not, then, just leave it and let others discuss?

Sorry, but I was SO right to leave here as staff, after six, dedicated years. Maybe you think the loss is not yours, or you don't care? Doesn't matter. I know what I know.

Carry on, and try, very, very hard, not to attack one another.

Vic
 
oh good lord!...here we go again:doh:
the leaked Autopsy report said that he was healthy...he may have had some issues but overall he was NOT ill...seeing TII assured that for me...this thread is pure speculation and should be either closed or moved to the IU forum
 
Nivea said:
you really expect to have a normal discussion and be taken seriously when you talk in such an arrogant and condescending matter?
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I've been jumped on here for having an opinion,do you really expect me to be all friendly?

I've been likened to the media ffs.Quite possibly the worst insult you could level at an MJ fan.
 
The "follower fans" were afraid that Michael would die.

Michael died.
Whatever you may think of them and their methods, this is one fact that stands out, starkly. Some of us are looking into it, and some choose not to. Either way should be ok.

Unlike the trial, the primary obstacle to seeking/finding justice for Michael now is (some) FANS. That is very, very sad. I despair of human-nature sometimes, but that's just the way it is.

Yeah, I'd say this would be best in the I.U.

By the way, anyone in here sign the L.O.V.E. pledge? How about starting here, to be kinder to each-other?
 
Things I do for you, is it possible for you to have a discussion without calling people names like ‘ghoul’ and ‘mentally unstable’ ?
 
No, I didn't see him as ill.

The doctors who gave him the physical didn't see him as ill.

Why wouldn't he keep himself healthy if he had another physical coming up in just a few days right before was to leave for London?
 
Nivea said:
buddy we're not the ones doing the name calling, you don't get far with remarks like that.

You have every right to state your opinion, but you should be careful with how you word yourself as people are very sensitive to subjects like this.
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Gaz posted a thread that was a L.O.V.E. pledge. Many, many people signed it. It was directed exactly at situations such as this. Name-calling is NOT a proper nor respectful way to have a conversation, about anything. I hope this thread will be scrubbed/closed soon, inevitably.

Some have engaged in extensive research, and some have not. Either way is ok. This is not the place for detailed "findings," anyway. Those belong in the I.U., or off the board entirely.

Underpinning EVERYTHING this board should stand for, is Michael's example of how to treat others.

The really ODD thing about all this, is that I actually was agreeing with the original poster, who perhaps didn't read my response carefully enough to perceive that? Strange, but,

carry on,

Vic
 
Damn, that is cold.

I do not agree with Victoria on many things, but you should be ban for questioning someone mentality like that.

I could call you mentally unstable for ignoring facts and stated your opinion as facts, but I didn't. I also didn't bother to call you out when you insulted my english as if if that takes away from my statements.

The fact that you have to lower yourself to character assassination tells me that you are not confident enough in your own opinion to give it without calling everyone else stupid or unstable.
 
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video doesn't always show the man, as he really is when you stand near him, you shouldn't judge him by what he seems to you in the video
 
Ramona122003 said:
Damn, that is cold.

I do not agree with Victoria on many things, but you should be ban for questioning someone mentality like that.

I could call you mentally unstable for ignoring facts and stated your opinion as facts, but I didn't. I also didn't bother to call you out when you insulted my english as if if that takes away from my statements.

The fact that you have to lower yourself to character assassination tells me that you are not confident enough in your own opinion to give it without calling everyone else stupid or unstable.
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Thanks, Ramona. True, we don't always agree, but at least conversation CAN take place? I concur that this is a "banning offense," but someone else will have to take care of it. I've "reported" the post. I DO think this thread would be best either closed, or in the I.U.

The really odd thing to me is that I was actually agreeing with the initial post, but. . whatever. Disagreements should be "discussions." That should be possible? Gaz put up the L.O.V.E. pledge for a reason, and this is an example of why it was necessary.
 
OK I wont post anymore,happy?

An opinion that goes against the grain isn't tolerable on here.19 m?>$££kin 84
Total diplock going on here.
 
Woah, I think I need to step away from this thread before I get angry! Come on, that is not a statement of someone who truly does not want to attack anyone or start drama. Victoria's contributions past and present have been amazing.
 
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jemini515 said:
Woah, I think I need to step away from this thread before I get angry! Come on, that is not a statement of someone who truly does not want to attack anyone or start drama. Victoria's contributions past and present have been amazing.
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Thanks. It's ok. I'm pretty secure in my "mental stability," actually. :D

I just find the response really, REALLY odd, since I posted in support of the original post, and tried to provide some supporting detail? I've reported the post, but that's the end of what I can/will do, and I will not respond in-kind, except to say that reasonable discussion SHOULD be possible here, and disagreements should, and can, happen without name-calling.

The L.O.V.E. pledge is here:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83070

Sigh. . . . .

Vic
 
Victoria83 said:
Thanks. It's ok. I'm pretty secure in my "mental stability," actually. :D
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Haha, very good, as you should be! :D

Victoria83 said:
I just find the response really, REALLY odd, since I posted in support of the original post, and tried to provide some supporting detail? I've reported the post, but that's the end of what I can/will do, and I will not respond in-kind, except to say that reasonable discussion SHOULD be possible here, and disagreements should, and can, happen without name-calling.

Sigh. . . . .

Vic
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Same... no need to start additional drama by responding in-kind. I am also interested in all reasonable discussion and investigation.... I just wish everyone could play nice.
 
Things I do for you said:
OK I wont post anymore,happy?

An opinion that goes against the grain isn't tolerable on here.19 m?>$££kin 84
Total diplock going on here.
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How bout trying to understand why it's not tolerated? have you seen through your posts and the way you come across in them? Your opinion would have been well respected and this thread would have gone in a very different direction if you had decided to word yourself differently.
 
Victoria83 said:
Thanks. It's ok. I'm pretty secure in my "mental stability," actually. :D

I just find the response really, REALLY odd, since I posted in support of the original post, and tried to provide some supporting detail? I've reported the post, but that's the end of what I can/will do, and I will not respond in-kind, except to say that reasonable discussion SHOULD be possible here, and disagreements should, and can, happen without name-calling.

The L.O.V.E. pledge is here:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83070

Sigh. . . . .

Vic
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your one of the nicest on here imho.:better:
 
Things I do for you said:
OK I wont post anymore,happy?

An opinion that goes against the grain isn't tolerable on here.19 m?>$££kin 84
Total diplock going on here.
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do really think that that is what we want?
you are the one who is attacking other members who have done so much for this community for no good reason and then you say that you're the one thats being attacked I have read this whole thread and I can't find one single post that was offensive as yours...many members have been banned for saying less than that...maybe people would have had a decent conversation with you if you were more respectful
 
Nivea said:
wow!! Even I take insult in this! and it wasn't even directed at me!
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Same here. That was very uncalled for, especially toward someone who gave six years of her time for us as a staff member!! That's all I plan to say in this thread.
 
kasume said:
No, I didn't see him as ill.

The doctors who gave him the physical didn't see him as ill.

Why wouldn't he keep himself healthy if he had another physical coming up in just a few days right before was to leave for London?
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OK, HERE is an example of the way discussions SHOULD go. I disagree with this, for various reasons (which I won't go into here further because I do think this thread belongs in the I.U.), but I fully support kasume's right to this opinion, which addressed the opening post, gave a reason for the opinion, and was not in any way disrespectful. See what I mean?

Carry on,

Vic
 
First of all... Like others have stated Michael was NOT ill. Michael has always been a thin man. Second you can tell a lot about a person when they have posted less then 200 posts and are starting threads to piss people off all over again.

third you and many like you should clue yourself in to the autopsy report and leave it at that. Michael was a healthy man Deal with it. No matter how much you want Michael Jackson to be what you want him to be he wasn't.

See threads like this and the Death Hoax threads ALL need to be locked and deleted. DO you realize how much pain you are causing? No i dont think you do. Until you do i dont think you need to be posting at all. and i say all of this with L.O.V.E.:cheeky:
 
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