Is there such a thing as a bad MJ song, album or performance?

A slight modification? They don't just change the pitch, it's a completely different recording. There's so much more to a live show than just singing. Your assessment that Michael would be ripped to shreds by social media is clearly wrong because someone like Britney Speares have already done it and remain respected.
Not really. I have seen many people criticise Britney for lip-syncing. If people think MJ would get away with excessive lip-syncing in this day & age, they are living in a fantasy world.

And besides, I have made my point. The live singing is the most important aspect of a concert for me and many other people. If an artist is lip-syncing 90% of the show, then that isn't right.
 
Not really. I have seen many people criticise Britney for lip-syncing. If people think MJ would get away with excessive lip-syncing in this day & age, they are living in a fantasy world.

And besides, I have made my point. The live singing is the most important aspect of a concert for me and many other people. If an artist is lip-syncing 90% of the show, then that isn't right.
Criticism is not the same as being ripped to shreds, Britney remains a highly respected artist regardless. He isn't lip-syncing 90% of the show, he's lip-syncing around 75% of the show, and usually the most important parts and the parts he does sing are so damn good I couldn't care less.
Edit: this is embarrassing I don't know why I started this argument. I agree with everything I said but this is not the thread to do it.
 
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Criticism is not the same as being ripped to shreds, Britney remains a highly respected artist regardless. He isn't lip-syncing 90% of the show, he's lip-syncing around 75% of the show, and usually the most important parts and the parts he does sing are so damn good I couldn't care less.
The media which are always cruel to Michael would have a field day ripping Michael to shreds for lip-syncing, not to mention the people on twitter, instagram etc.

I don't understand why you seem to get so offended over my criticism of Michael's lip-syncing. It doesn't bother you. Good, but it bothers me and a lot of other people.
 
I didn't like MJ lip-syncing for most of his shows, but I became more understanding of it when Michael Prince said in the MJCast that he did it because he didn't want the audience to feel "sonically cheated" and that he wanted the songs to sound the same as it did in the album.

I'm glad he changed his mind over the years and planned to sing more songs live on TII.
 
I didn't like MJ lip-syncing for most of his shows, but I became more understanding of it when Michael Prince said in the MJCast that he did it because he didn't want the audience to feel "sonically cheated" and that he wanted the songs to sound the same as it did in the album.
That's not what some of his idols did. James Brown would change the arrangements of songs in concerts or make them longer. He even re-recorded songs in different years that have a different arrangement.
 
I could be in minority, and I have also never been to his live concert. Though if I had a chance, I would have gone for the 'performance' and not just live singing. Bad had lot of live singing and it sounds very energetic, but either he had to compromise on dance steps or we hear out of breath singing. I think it's true that many fans wanted him to perform the songs, sing like the album and bring to life with his flawless dance steps. And that's what he did.
 
I like the HIStory Tour, while not the best tour of course, I like it. But one of my biggest gripes with it is how the potential to use the huge stage they built for the tour (remember they had a tank roll out, showing how the stage can also be a set piece) for more choreography songs was kinda wasted. Just imagine if they performed Ghosts in 97 leg, or Bad (with the choreo this time) and Remember The Time, in occasionai shows. Could have even gotten Janet in at least one show to perform Scream with Michael. If there was more dancing, would have sorta justified all the playback, but even if he could have sung more, that would have been great too. I know Michael was slowing down in terms of pace by this tour, but some shows proved there was potential for more dancing when he’s got the right amount of energy. I just wish there was more change up with that tour, play around with the set list and costumes, but a routine must be followed at the end of the day
 
I think truly awful songs are unknown, but some have aged poorly.

Just the other day i relistened to HIStory in the car and was quite disappointed with a lot of it. Like dangerous some songs are ruined by long ass openings. Little Susie has 2:51 minutes of church choir singing and a girl winding a musical box, before the song starts, and the songs Childhood and History sound overlong and pretentious. I also feel the songs "This Time Around" and "DS" sound badly dated and filleruy, not uch beyond chants and a groove. Plus Biggie's rap verse is just misogynistic garbage.

Dangerous would be perfect without the long ass opening to Black or White or the church choir in Will you be there, having to skip those parts as you drive is annoying.

Quite a lot of Invincible is subpar - The Lost Children in partcular and 3 or 4 ballady type songs and even some of the better cuts like 2000 volts are chants that have little memorability.

On the other hand OFTW and Bad are flawless.
 
I didn't like MJ lip-syncing for most of his shows, but I became more understanding of it when Michael Prince said in the MJCast that he did it because he didn't want the audience to feel "sonically cheated" and that he wanted the songs to sound the same as it did in the album.

I'm glad he changed his mind over the years and planned to sing more songs live on TII.
For me the cool thing about a live show is that the songs usually don't sound like what they do an the album. If I wanted to hear the songs sound like what they did on the albums then I would just listen to the albums.

I think a great example of this is Another Part Of Me. The live version of that song makes the album version sound really underwhelming in comparison. Still love the album version though
 
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Back-up singers being play-back is just embarassing to watch.

OTW-medley is cringeworthy - the young voice makes the playback embarrasing.

I must admit the long intro's to WYBT, History, Little Susie, HtW etc. annoys me. WYBT has been released without the long intro - but then the spoken part in the end is also cut out?? - That's like blasphemy.

I would really like if all songs was released without the long intro's- also the spoken intro to YRMW is not very good.
 
Man in the Mirror Brunei 1996. He didn't do spins like before and the live vocals don't sound very good. Would be interesting to see the United We Stand 2001 Man in the Mirror performance. We can see in photos that he did the spins.
 
Man in the Mirror Brunei 1996. He didn't do spins like before and the live vocals don't sound very good. Would be interesting to see the United We Stand 2001 Man in the Mirror performance. We can see in photos that he did the spins.
Man in The Mirror at Royal Brunei is very short and underwhelming. The worst MITN performance by far.
 
Back-up singers being play-back is just embarassing to watch.

OTW-medley is cringeworthy - the young voice makes the playback embarrasing.

I must admit the long intro's to WYBT, History, Little Susie, HtW etc. annoys me. WYBT has been released without the long intro - but then the spoken part in the end is also cut out?? - That's like blasphemy.

I would really like if all songs was released without the long intro's- also the spoken intro to YRMW is not very good.
The Free Willy soundtrack cuts out the long intro but still keeps the spoken part at the end
 
I think the most dissapointing thing about the HIStory tour isn't only the fact that MJ was lip syncing all but two songs, (three if you count I Want You Back/Love You Save as one song and I'll Be There as a seperate song) But the fact that he had become way too reliant on the band using backing tracks and I recall an interview with Greg Phillinganes where he said that he didn't return to play keyboards for HIStory for that reason, he actually wanted to play, and not hold down a single key for a whole song to trigger pre-recorded parts. There are some songs where Jennifer Batten is the ONLY one playing live and everybody else is miming to a pre-recorded track.
 
There are some songs where Jennifer Batten is the ONLY one playing live and everybody else is miming to a pre-recorded track.
What is the source of this information?
I want to know more. I can understand Michael lip-singing because his dancing is fabulous. But why won't the band play live. That does take something away from the live concert. Of course since I have only watched the recordings, it would have made no difference to me.
 
What is the source of this information?
I want to know more. I can understand Michael lip-singing because his dancing is fabulous. But why won't the band play live. That does take something away from the live concert. Of course since I have only watched the recordings, it would have made no difference to me.
Well, look at how Stranger in Moscow was done on the HIStory tour. Pretty much all of it is a pre-recorded backing track.
 
I could be in minority, and I have also never been to his live concert. Though if I had a chance, I would have gone for the 'performance' and not just live singing. Bad had lot of live singing and it sounds very energetic, but either he had to compromise on dance steps or we hear out of breath singing. I think it's true that many fans wanted him to perform the songs, sing like the album and bring to life with his flawless dance steps. And that's what he did.
michael is my favourite vocalist, but when it comes to his performances, i'm much more interested in the show; the dancing, the costumes, the charismatic theatrics... those are things i can't experience by just listening to the recordings.

as far as the audio goes, perfection was already achieved in the studio. anything else is a let down. i don't enjoy the pitch, tempo, or arrangements of my favourite songs being interfered with to the point where they're beyond recognition. i also don't enjoy breathless, strained, or flat vocals (not saying this was always the case for michael at all). i grew up on 'top of the pops' where the artists mimed. so it's expected, and preferred from me. i often found that the band, back up singers, brothers, and even dancers, got in michael's way. he had so much presence and energy, that he could fill an entire stage on his own. which is one of the reasons why the motown 25 performance of 'billie jean' is my favourite. i would be elated if he did an entire concert this way.

however, if i had to choose a concert from a tour, it would have be the 'victory' tour in new york. there was the perfect balance between singing and dancing, and michael was smooth in both regards. the atmosphere in the crowd was beautiful, despite the distance. to see the 'thriller' songs performed during the correct era, would have been a historic moment in time.
 
The show aspect of his concerts (Costumes, dancing, effects etc) are always spectacular to watch, but live vocals just adds that something extra special to the whole thing. Take Grammy's 1988 for example. Already a great performance, but when the live vocals come in it takes the performance to a whole other level.
 
It’s all subjective at the end of the day, but every artist has “bad” songs, videos, performances, and ideas. Not everybody will agree on what they are, but we all have favorites and least favorites. Mine are:
  • The music video for “Man in the Mirror.” I understand the sentiment behind it, but it was a huge missed opportunity.
I'd love to know in what way the MITM video was a missed opportunity. Not everyone likes the video - which is fair enough - but I can't work out what the 'missed opportunity' is.
 
No MJ. He wants to see MJ.

Maybe if he watched some concerts he'd get a chance to.
Yes, yes, but I'm trying to have a serious conversation here, lol. :ROFLMAO:

No, really! I'm genuinely intrigued by the statement from @AlwaysThere

Can't believe it's to do with Michael not being in the video. I know some people don't like that but I don't see how that qualifies as a 'missed opportunity'. I'm confused. 🤔
 
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I'd love to know in what way the MITM video was a missed opportunity. Not everyone likes the video - which is fair enough - but I can't work out what the 'missed opportunity' is.
I love his vocal performance on HCW. :D

But never mind that. I'm curious as to what you mean when you say the MITM video was a huge missed opportunity. As a protest statement it seems pretty strong to me so presumably it's not that. Do you mean that you think that Michael should have been in the video? I vaguely remember he got some flak in the media for that although I'm not sure what their problem was.
Michael Jackson apparently thought that if he appeared on such social-oriented/protest statement music videos that move would distract attention from its social messages (because viewers would focus on him rather than on these messages).

But not appearing on such music videos unavoidably displeased many of his fans.
Because people don't go to a live concert to listen to the studio version of the songs. They want to listen to live vocals. MJ took the absolute piss with his excessive lip-syncing. If MJ had done the History Tour in the era of social media, he would get tore apart by everyone.
Bear in mind that also many fans attended those live concerts because they just wanted to see their idol in the flesh, and they could not care less about his lip-syncing at that time.
I love the live version of blood on the dance floor. I don't get people who complain about less live singing. What do they expect! He is not a superhuman who can dance like crazy and sing flawlessly without sounding out of breath.
Apart from the lip-sync, the live performance of 'Blood On The Dance Floor' has another problem: it looks incomplete without a female, on stage partner.
I must admit the long intro's to WYBT, History, Little Susie, HtW etc. annoys me. WYBT has been released without the long intro - but then the spoken part in the end is also cut out?? - That's like blasphemy.

I would really like if all songs was released without the long intro's- also the spoken intro to YRMW is not very good.
Michael Jackson was not really good at these types of song intros.

Another example is the rain intro of 'Stranger In Moscow' which although is not that long, yet it sounds so detached and disconnected from the rest of the song.
Black or White is such a mid song, it feels like a demo, there aren't enough instruments or interesting melodies for me to enjoy it. The performances on tour consistently suck too and I've never seen a good one (link it if you have one you really like, I want to change my mind).
The main problem with 'Black Or White' (during tours) has to do with its final minute where although the song had already ended Michael Jackson keeps walking on stage and executing some really pointless dance moves.
I like the HIStory Tour, while not the best tour of course, I like it. But one of my biggest gripes with it is how the potential to use the huge stage they built for the tour (remember they had a tank roll out, showing how the stage can also be a set piece) for more choreography songs was kinda wasted. Just imagine if they performed Ghosts in 97 leg, or Bad (with the choreo this time) and Remember The Time, in occasionai shows. Could have even gotten Janet in at least one show to perform Scream with Michael. If there was more dancing, would have sorta justified all the playback, but even if he could have sung more, that would have been great too. I know Michael was slowing down in terms of pace by this tour, but some shows proved there was potential for more dancing when he’s got the right amount of energy. I just wish there was more change up with that tour, play around with the set list and costumes, but a routine must be followed at the end of the day
A routine must be followed at the end of the day when it comes to such very big and grandiose concerts (from other artists, also) in terms of production, visuals, theatrics, and so on.
 
Another example is the rain intro of 'Stranger In Moscow' which although is not that long, yet it sounds so detached and disconnected from the rest of the song.
It seems to me that you've never really understood the song and/or its message.
''(Rain)can be used as a symbol of sadness and melancholy, which is especially typical in literature and works of art, as well as movies.''
 
With a voice like that I can’t say there is such a thing as a “bad” song. I don’t enjoy all his music equally but there is one constant and that is his voice. He could sing the Ketchup song and it would still be enjoyable because of the voice.

And of course is the lack of live singing but I have touched upon this several times and promised not to do that anymore so I won’t.
 
Michael Jackson apparently thought that if he appeared on such social-oriented/protest statement music videos that move would distract attention from its social messages (because viewers would focus on him rather than on these messages).

But not appearing on such music videos unavoidably displeased many of his fans.
I already know this.

Another example is the rain intro of 'Stranger In Moscow' which although is not that long, yet it sounds so detached and disconnected from the rest of the song.
It really doesn't. Not to me.
 
''(Rain)can be used as a symbol of sadness and melancholy, which is especially typical in literature and works of art, as well as movies.''
Exactly so.

The rain at the beginning of the song sounds quite heavy which could also suggest isolation or perhaps feeling cold, isolated, trapped. Maybe in the video the rain could be seen as potentially cleansing but on the record, to me, the rain sounds full of foreboding.
 
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