Is it just the new fans pushing for this album?

[1offthewall1]

How can newer fans say they miss him, if they weren't even fans when he was here? I'm not trying to be an ass, I just legitamately dont think it makes sense.

I think a better way to say it would be 'I wish he was still here'.

I'm not sure if its just new fans pushing for the album, I have seen a mix of old and new. Then there are the people who were adamant that it WAS MJ on the songs and made a massive deal about it, even lashing out and those who didnt believe it was MJ. Who now go round saying it isn't MJ as if that is what they believed all along.

It's fine for people to change their minds, but to now put those down who believe it is MJ when they believed it was him at one stage is ridiculous.

this doesnt make sense to me. so we bash people who hate Mj, and we bash people who now love Mj? they should be congratulated, as they will help carry Mj's legacy.

its ok to have pride in the fact you knew Mj before his death, but you can't hold it against others who just recently discovered. especially since some of them were so young during the "invincible" era.

 

[Petrarose]

I'm a young fan at only 16, but by no means a new fan, I've been a fan all my life.

But yes I am very much pushing this album, I was only 5 when Invincible came out so I don't remember much except watching 30th Anniversary and You Rock My World, so this is the first time I was old enough to witness a MJ album release, but it wasn't really what I expected, all the controversy behind the album made me take a break from the forum, and it wasn't really promoted the way I thought it would have.
But whats great is seeing people at school, and my friends on Facebook and things singing and posting links to Hold My Hand and things, it gives my the smallest idea of what it was like when Thriller, Bad and Dangerous came out.

Oh, this post is so sweet, and it makes me sad that the younger fans have to be introduced to a coming out album in such a shoddy manner. Raz you should have seen the Thriller era. We basically were all blown away. Back then tapes and LPs were the thing and when the videos came out every one was glued to the TV. When Michael had a new album it was a TV event. Those days are no more.

 

[JMie]

I am not a new fan, I've been a fan since 1993. I was waiting for this album and was scared of it at the same time because I wasn't sure how I would take it (judging from my reaction to This Is It, which it is very painful for me to watch even after a year and a half). Surprisingly, when the album was released, I took it very very well, I listen to it all the time, it's on repeat in my car and my ipod. And I wanted this album to be a huge success because we all know how Michael loved being number one, so I wanted it to become number one to honor his memory. I am glad it became number one in my country.

 

[Dorian]

I must admit I barely listen to the new album anymore. It just isn't the same-I remember the excitement when HIStory, Invincible, the TII tour was announced as Michael was here and it was easy to get swept up in the excitement of it all. It was Michael after all. But he's not here and anything 'new' now will always have that sadness to it, I just can't help it. I want to enjoy new stuff but I just cant really. I've been a fan all my life and its just not the same.

:better:

Yep...remember how even some pics made us all extasic

 

[mjjmsc]

I'm glad Michael came out because I love michaels music. However, I have zero interest in the marketing or promotion of the songs because without Michael here it's a waste of time, the video magic is gone
And there's no hope of any stage performances. I dont even really care about which singles come out (as long as it's not the casino
Tracks). I feel like the long time fans are over it and know better than for Sony to do right by this album when they've only done so much wrong, now and in the past. If it was a album full of new hot material i may feel different
But as it stands i feel like it must be all the newer fans hoping this album is pushed and that we call radio stations and defend Michael on twitter sites and do all that stuff that only newer fans have the energy and excuse me, naiveté to engage in in regards to the album. I feel like the older fans know it's a waste of time....I'm wondering if other feel that way. I just remember being younger and figthting for those things but now a days, with mj gone and knowing Sonya heart isn't in this album that it's a waste of time.

You are totally wrong-I am an old fan (18 years ago I first started to love MJ) and I like very much the new album, all the songs,they are great!and I support this album because Michael's magic must live on

 

[Roosje]

^ I second this and I'm a fan since 1995.

 

[L.T.D]

this doesnt make sense to me. so we bash people who hate Mj, and we bash people who now love Mj? they should be congratulated, as they will help carry Mj's legacy.

its ok to have pride in the fact you knew Mj before his death, but you can't hold it against others who just recently discovered. especially since some of them were so young during the "invincible" era.

Well of course you would take it as me bashing them....i'm not. It just doesn't make sense to me for newer fans to say they miss him when they weren't even fans when he was here. That's all.

I'm also noticing a pattern that the people pushing for the album are either newer fans, or older fans that are from different countries. A lot of you are going to take this completely the wrong way, and i'm expecting that....but I feel it is a point that needs to be made. I think one of the biggest problems with the vocals is that a lot of the words aren't pronounced in the same way MJ would have pronounced them. Perhaps some of the fans from other countries don't understand english enough to tell the difference.

Go ahead, crucify me.

 

[love is magical]

Well of course you would take it as me bashing them....i'm not. It just doesn't make sense to me for newer fans to say they miss him when they weren't even fans when he was here. That's all.

I'm also noticing a pattern that the people pushing for the album are either newer fans, or older fans that are from different countries. A lot of you are going to take this completely the wrong way, and i'm expecting that....but I feel it is a point that needs to be made. I think one of the biggest problems with the vocals is that a lot of the words aren't pronounced in the same way MJ would have pronounced them. Perhaps some of the fans from other countries don't understand english enough to tell the difference.

Go ahead, crucify me.

I actually agree with you. I'm not bashing or belittling anyone. It's true that one's familiarity of Michael's voice and the Enlgish language impact significantly on one's opinion on the Cascio tracks.

I'm not a native English speaker myself. But, I listen to Michael enough times to recognize the difference. The pronounciations are off in the Cascio tracks. One instance I noted recently is the word "my". The way Michael pronounced "my" is almost like "mah"... Listen to the Jackson Five albums. Try "I'll Be There" and see if you know what I'm talking about. On "Stay", the singer didn't pronounce the word "my" the Michael Jackson way. There are many other pronounciation differences others have noted.

As to whether it's just the new fans who are pushing the album, I guess not. Some fans, old or new, are desperate to re-live the excitement brought by a new Michael Jackson release. We all had high hope on this album. We all wanted it to launch a new MJ era. If this album tops the charts, the excitement can continue.

I guess, deep in my heart, I still refuse to let Michael go. A new album gives me something to look forward to. However, the cruel reality hit the moment Breaking News was streamed. This album just made Michael's absence more apparent to me.

 

[JMie]

this is why I don't enjoy the Immortal Experience at all. If you are brave enough to admit that you like the album and are sure that it's Michael's voice, you are either a new fan who doesn't know anything, or an older fan but from a different country which apparently makes you aurally challenged and you are unable to recognise the voice, or you are so desperate that you can't process "the truth".

and the only ones that are mentally stable, know enough about MJ and his voice are those who don't like the album.

whatever. I am done participating in this thread.

 

[Arklove]

Well of course you would take it as me bashing them....i'm not. It just doesn't make sense to me for newer fans to say they miss him when they weren't even fans when he was here. That's all.

I'm also noticing a pattern that the people pushing for the album are either newer fans, or older fans that are from different countries. A lot of you are going to take this completely the wrong way, and i'm expecting that....but I feel it is a point that needs to be made. I think one of the biggest problems with the vocals is that a lot of the words aren't pronounced in the same way MJ would have pronounced them. Perhaps some of the fans from other countries don't understand english enough to tell the difference.

Go ahead, crucify me.

I agree with you

 

[Roosje]

I'm also noticing a pattern that the people pushing for the album are either newer fans, or older fans that are from different countries.

I can't believe you wrote that. You just insulted half the community.

When people think differently than you it isn't nice to assume they just don't know any better because they are aurally challenged. Really now.

 

[Maksima40]

this is why I don't enjoy the Immortal Experience at all. If you are brave enough to admit that you like the album and are sure that it's Michael's voice, you are either a new fan who doesn't know anything, or an older fan but from a different country which apparently makes you aurally challenged and you are unable to recognise the voice, or you are so desperate that you can't process "the truth".

and the only ones that are mentally stable, know enough about MJ and his voice are those who don't like the album.

whatever. I am done participating in this thread.

I agree wholeheartedly. Some people in here have very high thoughts of themselves.

 

[love is magical]

this is why I don't enjoy the Immortal Experience at all. If you are brave enough to admit that you like the album and are sure that it's Michael's voice, you are either a new fan who doesn't know anything, or an older fan but from a different country which apparently makes you aurally challenged and you are unable to recognise the voice, or you are so desperate that you can't process "the truth".

and the only ones that are mentally stable, know enough about MJ and his voice are those who don't like the album.

whatever. I am done participating in this thread.

it also takes courage for one to follow one's instinct and go against what is being told.

it also takes courage to admit one doesn't recognize michael's vocal and is totally disappointed.

it's heartbreaking to not accept the album after years of anticipation and months of discussions.

we need to agree to disagree.

 

[love is magical]

I can't believe you wrote that. You just insulted half the community.

When people think differently than you it isn't nice to assume they just don't know any better because they are aurally challenged. Really now.

I don't think what L.T.D said is insulting and it shouldn't be taken as so. He didn't say something like "If you hear Michael in those tracks, you are tone deaf."

It's true that Michael Jackson was an English speaker with particular accent. It is indeed more difficult for non-English speakers to notice the different accents. How is it an insulting statement?

It's also true that one's relationship with Michael's voice plays an important role. If I play the Cascio tracks to non-fans or casual fans, of course they can't notice the difference. Let's say Usher's record label hired an impersonator to sing a song. I could be easily duped. I don't know Usher's voice enough to tell the difference.

I just read L.T.D.'s post again. It's far from insulting. He was just stating his observation. Of course, you can always disagree with his observation.

 

[Roosje]

I don't think what L.T.D said is insulting and it shouldn't be taken as so. He didn't say something like "If you hear Michael in those tracks, you are tone deaf."

No true, he said something like: Your opinion is less valuable because you are not a native speaker of the English language.

It's true that Michael Jackson was an English speaker with particular accent. It is indeed more difficult for non-English speakers to notice the different accents. How is it an insulting statement?

Because:

It's also true that one's relationship with Michael's voice plays an important role.

If Michael and Jason M. (as you non-velievers seem to think he resembles MJ most) would both sing Todo para ti I don't need to be a connaisseur of the Spanish language to figure out who is singing what. Accents are detected, even when you don't know the language by heart. It's enough to know Michael's voice and his songs by heart, no matter the language he sings in.

I just read L.T.D.'s post again. It's far from insulting. He was just stating his observation. Of course, you can always disagree with his observation..?

In the context of this thread, which on itself is insulting to new fans, it is insulting. Just another way to express with dedain that fans must be new, foreign or just plain stupid to actually enjoy this new album. I'm sick of it.

 

[L.T.D]

I can't believe you wrote that. You just insulted half the community.

When people think differently than you it isn't nice to assume they just don't know any better because they are aurally challenged. Really now.

What's so wrong with saying that people whose first language is not English might not be able to recognize the pronunciation of English words as well as people whose first language IS English? That's all i'm basically saying, you can't deny that.

I'm not saying that is what has happened, I was just putting the idea out there. I did expect this sort of reaction though, I expected people would take it the wrong way as usual. Some of the fans here will take anything as being offensive, highly sensitive. But I felt the idea needed to be put out there.

No true, he said something like: Your opinion is less valuable because you are not a native speaker of the English language.

Now you're just putting words into my mouth..... -_-

I agree wholeheartedly. Some people in here have very high thoughts of themselves.

More people should have high thoughts of themselves. Self confidence is not a bad thing.

 

[Roosje]

^Well, I disagree. It's about knowing MJ's voice, not the language he sings in. Do you speak any foreign languages yourself? I speak 5 languages (not perfectly) and read 2 extinct languages and when I study a certain text I know the oddities, accents and pecculiar things about it, not because I'm fluent at it but because I studied it. I guess if Michael could be studied we would all have Master degrees MJ and I think we can therefore discuss this matter as equals. I really do not think native English speakers have an advantage in knowing Michael's voice.

 

[love is magical]

No true, he said something like: Your opinion is less valuable because you are not a native speaker of the English language.




Because:



If Michael and Jason M. (as you non-velievers seem to think he resembles MJ most) would both sing Todo para ti I don't need to be a connaisseur of the Spanish language to figure out who is singing what. Accents are detected, even when you don't know the language by heart. It's enough to know Michael's voice and his songs by heart, no matter the language he sings in.


In the context of this thread, which on itself is insulting to new fans, it is insulting. Just another way to express with dedain that fans must be new, foreign or just plain stupid to actually enjoy this new album. I'm sick of it.

I re-read L.T.D.'s post again. Nowhere in his post he suggested that the opinions from non-English speakers are less valuable nor did he insinuate that people who enjoy the album are stupid. I'm afraid you simply intrepreted what he said your own way. It's not his problem if you decided to put a negative spin on things he said.

Again, it's true that non-English speakers may have a more difficult time in noticing the difference in accents. What's so insulting about this statement?

 

[Roosje]

^L.T.D.: Whoah, you edited your post. Haven't adressed the latter part in my last response now. I paraphrased you as response to LIM, who stated something you obviously didn't say, so I responded with a sentence that was in my opinion a bit closer. It is correct that you wanted to add this point of language to the discussion because you wonder if the non-native speakers of the English language can evaluate the discussed songs just as well as native speakers? If correct, yes, I put words in your mouth, but you implied these words yourself in your previous post.

 

[L.T.D]

^Well, I disagree. It's about knowing MJ's voice, not the language he sings in. Do you speak any foreign languages yourself? I speak 5 languages (not perfectly) and read 2 extinct languages and when I study a certain text I know the oddities, accents and pecculiar things about it, not because I'm fluent at it but because I studied it. I guess if Michael could be studied we would all have Master degrees MJ and I think we can therefore discuss this matter as equals. I really do not think native English speakers have an advantage in knowing Michael's voice.

Not MJ's voice, you're right. But in recognising the pronunciation of certain words in the English language, i'd say people who are native English speakers do have that advantage over none native English speakers.....It doesn't matter how much you study it, people who have been speaking that language naturally since they were 2 years old are allways going to recognise the pronunciation of a certain word being wrong better than someone who has studied the language.

Again, I dont necessarily believe this myself. It's just something that popped into my head.... Even if it is true, it wouldn't apply to everyone. As clearly there are many fans whose first language isn't English who think the vocals are not MJ's.

^L.T.D.: Whoah, you edited your post. Haven't adressed the latter part in my last response now. I paraphrased you as response to LIM, who stated something you obviously didn't say, so I responded with a sentence that was in my opinion a bit closer. It is correct that you wanted to add this point of language to the discussion because you wonder if the non-native speakers of the English language can evaluate the discussed songs just as well as native speakers? If correct, yes, I put words in your mouth, but you implied these words yourself in your previous post.

What's wrong with me editing my post?

I don't have to address anything else, i've said what i've said and you've said what you've said. I've explained why I said what I said and you have also explained yourself. What else needs to be addressed? :\

 

[Roosje]

I re-read L.T.D.'s post again. Nowhere in his post he suggested that the opinions from non-English speakers are less valuable nor did he insinuate that people who enjoy the album are stupid. I'm afraid you simply intrepreted what he said your own way. It's not his problem if you decided to put a negative spin on things he said.

Again, it's true that non-English speakers may have a more difficult time in noticing the difference in accents. What's so insulting about this statement?

Uhm, I just addressed this in my previous posts to L.T.D. The stupid part was not meant for L.T.D., but just the general consensus that's seeping through some threads in the Experience forum. I don't put a negative spin on things. For that you should look no further than the Great Debate thread.

 

[Roosje]

Not MJ's voice, you're right. But in recognising the pronunciation of certain words in the English language, i'd say people who are native English speakers do have that advantage over none native English speakers.....It doesn't matter how much you study it, people who have been speaking that language naturally since they were 2 years old are allways going to recognise the pronunciation of a certain word being wrong better than someone who has studied the language.

Well, I disagree again. In general, of course a native speaker is more fluent and detects accents better than a non-native-speaker. But if we're talking specific texts or persons it is about how much you studied them. I know all Michael's little language oddities, including pronunciation. If we both listen to a song 100 times, I think we can both replicate it just as well and point out all the unque language traits of it. It's all about familiarity with the discussed subject.

 

[love is magical]

Uhm, I just addressed this in my previous posts to L.T.D. The stupid part was not meant for L.T.D., but just the general consensus that's seeping through some threads in the Experience forum. I don't put a negative spin on things. For that you should look no further than the Great Debate thread.

This is the unedited post by L.T.D. that we responded to.

Well of course you would take it as me bashing them....i'm not. It just doesn't make sense to me for newer fans to say they miss him when they weren't even fans when he was here. That's all.

I'm also noticing a pattern that the people pushing for the album are either newer fans, or older fans that are from different countries. A lot of you are going to take this completely the wrong way, and i'm expecting that....but I feel it is a point that needs to be made. I think one of the biggest problems with the vocals is that a lot of the words aren't pronounced in the same way MJ would have pronounced them. Perhaps some of the fans from other countries don't understand english enough to tell the difference.

Go ahead, crucify me.

This is your response.

I can't believe you wrote that. You just insulted half the community.

When people think differently than you it isn't nice to assume they just don't know any better because they are aurally challenged. Really now.

It's okay you disagree with him. However, it doesn't make what he said in his original post insulting.

 

[Roosje]

What's wrong with me editing my post?

I don't have to address anything else, i've said what i've said and you've said what you've said. I've explained why I said what I said and you have also explained yourself. What else needs to be addressed? :\

Nothing wrong with it. I just noticed too late and haven't been able to answer to everything now, but that's ok.

Ok, agree to disagree. I frankly haven't counted the nationalities of the people in support of this album. You did? What more data do we have? Sex? Age? Post count? We should make diagrams of it.

 

[Roosje]

It's okay you disagree with him. However, it doesn't make what he said in his original post insulting.

Please, give it up. We can read for ourselves and we're perfectly able to discuss this matter together as you see. No need to act as referee. Being insulted is highly personal, you can't tell if something is objectively insulting or not.

 

[L.T.D]

Well, I disagree again. In general, of course a native speaker is more fluent and detects accents better than a non-native-speaker.

Well, you aren't really disagreeing with me then are you? As that is exactly what I have said. In fact you're agreeing with me.

What you might disagree with me on is the fact that this would be the one of the reasons why some fans from other countries believe it is MJ on the songs.

Nothing wrong with it. I just noticed too late and haven't been able to answer to everything now, but that's ok.

Ok, agree to disagree. I frankly haven't counted the nationalities of the people in support of this album. You did? What more data do we have? Sex? Age? Post count? We should make diagrams of it.

Eyebrow width, skull density and tongue moistness. What do you have?

 

[Roosje]

^ :lol: You funny.

Yes, I agreed with the general statement, but not applied to things/language studied by heart, like MJ is by his fans, no matter the nationality. So I don't think this argument should be used in the discussion. Because it discredits people's opinion when after all this is a community nation to nation, and language should not be a discriminating factor.

 

[L.T.D]

^ :lol: You funny.

Yes, I agreed with the general statement, but not applied to things/language studied by heart, like MJ is by his fans, no matter the nationality. So I don't think this argument should be used in the discussion. Because it discredits people's opinion when after all this is a community nation to nation, and language should not be a discriminating factor.

It doesn't discredit everyone's opinion. Perhaps just those who don't know English too well.

This came to me the other day when I was watching that impersonator Jean Walker. I was totally amazed by him, a lot of parts sounded just like MJ. But it then entered my head, that he would be so much better if his English was better, as his pronunciation of certain words is the only thing which lets him down.

 

[love is magical]

Please, give it up. We can read for ourselves and we're perfectly able to discuss this matter together as you see. No need to act as referee. Being insulted is highly personal, you can't tell if something is objectively insulting or not.

No, why do I need to give it up? This is a public forum. I'm free to respond to any posts. If the discussion you have with L.T.D is meant to be one-on-one, then I suggest you two to carry it to PM.

I'm not acting as a referre neither. I responsed to his post and I agreed with what he said and don't find it insulting.

You seem to be an advocate of being open minded. However, when someone presented a statement that you don't agree with, your first response was saying his remark was insulting, while in fact he just stated his observation.

 

[JMie]

it also takes courage for one to follow one's instinct and go against what is being told.

it also takes courage to admit one doesn't recognize michael's vocal and is totally disappointed.

it's heartbreaking to not accept the album after years of anticipation and months of discussions.

we need to agree to disagree.

yes we do. that's why we should stop analysing other people's minds and talk only about our own thoughts and feelings.