Latest on MJJC

Is it illegal to have a good ole punchup?

Datsymay

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
6,473
Points
0
Location
South East London
Why are people being arrested and fined for assault when they have a good ole brawl. I would have thought tha t it is human nature or part of out animal instinct to fight. Why can't people be given a caution and sent home. Why are we being made to repress our animal instinct.?
 
I've thought about that too sometimes. If two grown men want to have a fight then why should police waist their time on them. There a real criminals to catch.
Maybe a legal "fight club" migh be a good thing.

I don't really know since I'm not a guy, but they seem to be fine even after they've had a big fist fight with their best mate. :D
 
raingirl said:
I've thought about that too sometimes. If two grown men want to have a fight then why should police waist their time on them. There a real criminals to catch.
Maybe a legal "fight club" migh be a good thing.

I don't really know since I'm not a guy, but they seem to be fine even after they've had a big fist fight with their best mate. :D
Click to expand...
Thank you for responding Raingirl. Yes, indeed, back in history men used to pick up their swords and spar with eah other, even very recently men used to fight, then they would shake hands afterwards and it would be all over. Now if people have a barney, the police is called and they are charged for assault and get a criminal record. Men are not allowed to fight anymore. They can't hunt they can't do lots of things that are natural for them to do, so where do they let off steal. They go mad and commit suicide instead I guess.
 
Interesting observation. I hadn't thought of this. I suppose that is why many men get into boxing. They get to do it with a paying audience that way!
 
unprovoked violance

while it may be natural, so is everything else in life. civilisation has taught us better than to resort to the last refuge of the incompetent.
 
because it could lead to someone get seriously hurt or even killed ? just a thought :)
 
Ape said:
I suppose that is why many men get into boxing. They get to do it with a paying audience that way!
Click to expand...
that's a big misconception about the art form of combat sports. i'm a keen enthusiast of Thai boxing and yet i firmly believe in the absolute most peaceful resolution to anything in life, even self-defense. within reason.
 
strange thread. i know folks are bored but .. lol
 
I mentioned it because a close friend of mine is a professional boxer and he does it because he feels more like a man and because it is, at the same time, facing his fears making him feel more alive. This is just what he has said though. There could be more to it that he keeps to himself.
 
They are civilised people in the Caribbean, but those people have no qualms about rolling up their fists and have a good ole punch up if things get too much for them. I notice those people appears to be generally more happy and content with their lives than people in the west. Not many have nervous breakdowns or commit suicide. People need an out-let for their frustrations, and maybe a good ole punch-up may be what the doctor orders, just like them good ole western films. no weapons involved of course.
 
Last edited:
Re: unprovoked violance

arXter said:
while it may be natural, so is everything else in life. civilisation has taught us better than to resort to the last refuge of the incompetent.
Click to expand...
Fighting is as natural as breathing. There is a reason why we were made to express joy, anger, fear , grief ect. They are all part of our emotions and we were meant to express them. When we hold them back they become repressed and manifest themselves in other ways.
 
Re: unprovoked violance

Datsymay said:
Fighting is as natural as breathing.
Click to expand...
so is murder. there's no scale as to how "natural" things are. everything is natural.

There is a reason why we were made to express joy, anger, fear , grief ect. They are all part of our emotions and we were meant to express them. When we hold them back they become repressed and manifest themselves in other ways.
Click to expand...
no doubt but that doesn't mean we have to express any of these emotions through violence.

of all the people that have taught me the peaceful way in life, they certainly did not show any signs of 'explosive manifestations' from non- violence/intention to harm.
 
Re: unprovoked violance

arXter said:
so is murder. there's no scale as to how "natural" things are. everything is natural.

no doubt but that doesn't mean we have to express any of these emotions through violence.

of all the people that have taught me the peaceful way in life, they certainly did not show any signs of 'explosive manifestations' from non- violence/intention to harm.
Click to expand...
People who wish to be peaceful and turn the other cheek can still do that, but for those who don't want to, the law will not stop them anyway, what I am saying is that they shouldn't be criminalised for having a punchup which is the most natural thing in the world.
 
Re: unprovoked violance

Maybe if people were allowed to fight it out, there would be no need for murder. Most murder are caused by accident. Peope explode and lose their temper and use weapons. A good fist fight would avoid all that pent up feeling and get rid of tension.
 
Re: unprovoked violance

Datsymay said:
what I am saying is that they shouldn't be criminalised for having a punchup which is the most natural thing in the world.
Click to expand...
and what i'm saying is that it's not "the most natural thing in the world" - nothing is. you're implying that physical aggression is to be tolerated in society as an exercise of freedom of will and as a good measure of expressing our emotions. i'm quite liberal, but i'd say punishment/warning for such aggression is the civil thing to do.
 
Re: unprovoked violance

arXter said:
and what i'm saying is that it's not "the most natural thing in the world" - nothing is. you're implying that physical aggression is to be tolerated in society as an exercise of freedom of will and as a good measure of expressing our emotions. i'm quite liberal, but i'd say punishment/warning for such aggression is the civil thing to do.
Click to expand...
But that doesn't ring true for heads of govts, that is why we have armies still, so why should it be true for individuals. Even in church there is a exhrtation to fight, or wrestle. Their seems to be a need to do so, even if it is spiritual warfare.
 
heads of our governments will be the last place to look for morality and civil conduct. and no disrespect to others, but so is religion.

there will always be a need for aggression - it's natural. same with greed, power, corruption etc. etc. will always be there. it's the civil balance that's keeping order and, imo, progression for society.
 
Got to disagree with you on this Datsy.
There has been theories about that its good for people to get their anger out physically, but the result seem to be that the hormones we produce if we act out is lasting longer then it would if we took time to come to our senses and cool down. And in that red hot anger, with all the adrenaline boiling we may cause serious harm and have to deal with the consequence of a few minutes for the rest of our life.

Some people say its natural for dogs to fight, but if you compare it to how a pack of wolfes act its not true. Whats natural to them is actually to cooperate and use mecanisms to avoid fights as they can affect the pack badly. They are depending on being able to hunt together to be efficiant.
You can`t really compare that to people, but in general the best thing is for people to actually solve their issues without "acting out".
Fighting can cause serious harm, even if its not intended to become deadly. We are more fragile then what we think.

Any emotion people have can be said to be natural, and acceptable. Its acting them out that needs to be controled in a way that doesnt harm others.
I honestly think its a myth that men "fight it out and get done with it". At least I have never heard about anyone with that experience in "real life".

What I do think is that we all are capable of good and bad, and the tension can build by not being able to accept it, and try to be sensible and "nice" and siviliced all the time. Underneath it all, we are still the same that would watch public lynching for fun...........nothing new under the sun. But that is why we need rules, warnings, borders, tabues etc... Some of it is actually good for us, as a group. Like the wolfes has their rules, we need ours, to keep our societies working.
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with a friendly scuffle between mates, it happens, especially if both fellas have had a bit too much grog.

The important thing I guess is what happens next. Do both guys step back and go "hmm what caused us to do that and is my mate ok?"



I guess it's a cultural thing too. but a little bit of a biff between two blokes is not the same as heads of state going to war.... usually a punchup between mates is just a silly moment that passes. Anything that occurrs between more than two people (ie me and my mates gangin up on another and their mates) is where there should be cause for thought and possible action. Because that's when it's not about "letting it out" but rather about fighting for or against something.... it also demonstrates that it was premeditated.... usually a punch up between mates is not premeditated it's just a situation that got outta hand between 2 folks.
 
Hmm.......second thoughts.
I think its good for people to be honest about how they feel, and what is described as a punch up between mates was not exactly what I was thinking about when I replied. I think that men need to be men, but as a society we need rules. And if the culture has unwritten rules about conduct in a "punch up", then anyone who goes to far will be punished for that.

The name of the writer of the book "art of war" ( old chinese writings about warfare) escapes me at the moment, but he said that the best way to win a war is to avoid it- to use all ways possible to avoid an actual battle.

What I was thinking of was more of a violent fight, that are out of control. But its kind of hard to know where to draw the line is it not? Depends on the reason for the conflict, and the persons involved.
Its correct that fighting and duelling etc... has always been part of society. But those things has rules too. Martial arts has a lot of rules, and they train dicipline as mutch as fighting. There is a difference in a competition and a fight in anger. I t can easily get out of control.
But as a woman, I know that sometimes I wish we had some different "rules" when it comes to anger, because its imrinted in our minds that we control our anger a lot more then men............and where do that anger go?:unsure:
 
movingcoolcat said:
Hmm.......second thoughts.
I think its good for people to be honest about how they feel, and what is described as a punch up between mates was not exactly what I was thinking about when I replied. I think that men need to be men, but as a society we need rules.
Click to expand...
another misconception about men and violence. am i less of a man because i avoid physical aggression at most costs? as i said earlier, it's the last resort of the incompetent fragile male ego.

i agree with everything else you said, especially this:

Any emotion people have can be said to be natural, and acceptable. Its acting them out that needs to be controled in a way that doesnt harm others.
Click to expand...
because violence isn't an emotion.
 
Last edited:
Most people have no idea what it's like to be in a real fight, but it's scary. I know this because my father has been in serious, real fights, and he's someone who knows how to fight. Most people don't. It can get ugly really quick. My father got in to a fight when he was in his 20s with this huge dude. My dad was a waiter in a resteraunt, this guy tried to walk out without paying for his drink, holding this thick coffee mug. My father went after him, and this guy spun around and, no joke, he smashed the coffee mug in to my fathers face, it missed his eye by a fraction of a centimeter. My father knows how to fight,and when he realize he hadn't gone down from the hit, he litterally grabbed the guy by the hair and punched him in the face 6 or 7 times, and my dad hits HARD. The guy didn't go down at first, because he was just a really stout, strong man. He went down eventually after several more hits. A friend of my fathers came out of the resteraunt, and this guy started to get up, he was just a bad mofo, and my Dad said to his frinend 'help me', because this guy was bad news, and my Dad's freind just came up and kicked the guy as hard as he could, right across the face. Both my father and this guy ended up in the same hospital, and my Dad needed over 100 stitches for the cut from the coffee mug. My Dad told me that he hit this guy so many times and so hard, that he could actually feel his flesh squishing underieth his knuckles.

The point is, my father didn't initate the fight, but he got seriously hurt and he put a serious beating on this guy. Fights can escalate really fast and get out of control and some people just are NOT playing. There's people that are just LOOKING for a fight. They go to bars looking for a fight. People can very easily become perminantly damaged or killed, because fights become visious when someone feels like they're really being threatened, and most people don't know how to fight, so they become desperate.
 
Datsymay said:
People need an out-let for their frustrations, and maybe a good ole punch-up may be what the doctor orders, just like them good ole western films. no weapons involved of course.
Click to expand...

Why even disallow weapons though? Are you saying killing is not ok but beating someone to a bloody pulp is?

As arxter quite aptly pointed out that there are serious misconceptions about men and their need for violence. Apart from having animal instincts, we also posess a thing called conscience, an ability to look at the bigger picture and judge whats right and whats wrong. And the whole argument that punchups are supposed to solve our problems is baseless. Should a parent encourage their son to settle disputes by fights? No. Why should the law be any different?
 
There's theoretically nothing wrong with two willing participants with a score to settle getting into it. The problem becomes when it goes too far, and it's not like you sign a document saying "we're not going to seriously injure each other." Tempers flare, blood boils, people get seriously hurt or killed. I personally think fighting should be only self defense or sport. And if everyone thought the same, it'd only be sport.

Oh, I also love TV/movie violence usually. Sorry, just do.
 
Last edited:
arXter said:
another misconception about men and violence. am i less of a man because i avoid physical aggression at most costs? as i said earlier, it's the last resort of the incompetent fragile male ego.

i agree with everything else you said, especially this:

because violence isn't an emotion.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree with you. No, a man who avoid physical aggression is a clever man who has enough tools and enough conficence to solve things a better way.
This is a interesting discussion though, because it goes into the subject of gender.
 
My dad always says he's won all his fights from 50 yards away :lol:

Don't get me wrong he's a tough little guy and knows how to fight, but he's always said it's much easier to win when you can outrun the other guy :lol: When he used to play Football though he was confronted by this very big bloke who threatened to beat him up and he said "you get one good hit at my tummy area and that's it" the guy's eyes lit up and he cleared himself some space and then swung at my dad's stomach. Dad clenched his abdominal muscles and it was like the guy hit a brick wall his arm just bounced off dad's stomach :lol:

Then it was over. :lol:


it's funny but you're right MC it does get into gender and the whole labelling of men who like to fight etc.


I spent my whole school years fighting. I was much better at using my spiteful tongue when girls would gang up on me... I still believe words are more hurtful than a few well placed punches.

I never lost a physical battle though. It got to the point where girls were paying the bigger tougher girls to come at me after school. If I didn't talk my way out of it "hey they paid you right? why not leave with the money without getting all dirty fighting me? not like they will be brave enough to come get it off you" :p
I always won my battles cause I always knew what I was doing :p
 
The last school fight I had was when a gang of girls decided to come at me from behind the school gate. I didn't know my own strength cause I gave each one of then a good beating and watched them run away. The next day at school each one of them was called out to go to the head teacher for ganging up on me. I don't know who told on them. I was never threatened again but months later I heard someone telling another that no one should ever pick a fight with her cause she will beat them up. That was my last school fight.
 
Last edited:
:lol: I wish I had of had that reaction... instead it was like I was the grand challenge.

Good for you though :yes:
 
Errrm...you want to know if it's illegal to have a 'good' punch up?

Absolutely yes it is. Violence is *never* the correct way to settle disputes, and fortunately our law reflects this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top