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in response to Harvey Levin: No addict is Functional

Dr. Conrad Murray portrayed and advertised himself as
an advocate of "Holistic Medicine".
 
vncwilliam said:
all well and good, but MJ is known to have been adamantly against drugs. usually a person who is a functioning addict doesn't take a strong stand against drugs. there are magazines that i read that have articles and ads about 'typical stoners'. people who are not shy about what they do. they don't think anything is wrong with it, as long as they function. MJ showed absolutely NO change in his personality. it doesn't make sense to me that someone would change their entire belief system in one week, after 40 plus years in another direction, no matter what they go through. if anything, the belief system is the first thing a person lives by, then after that, whatever their habits are. MJ's strong personality belies all these media allegations against him. it's easier for me to believe some supposedly unlikely people are in others' pockets.
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Then we agree. I already stated that I don't believe MJ was an addict. I was just responding to your claim that there is no such thing as a functional addict.
 
Well, there are plenty of addicts who go about daily life without people raising an eye to their condition.

People will think what they want, I guess, for better or worse. Whatever makes people feel better about the situation.
 
PrincessMichaela said:
Then we agree. I already stated that I don't believe MJ was an addict. I was just responding to your claim that there is no such thing as a functional addict.
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well..i draw the line when it comes to driving my car. there are a hell of a lot of accidents these days. there is no functional addict, in that case, even, if at first, it seems like everything is smooth. (yeah i know that MJ didn't like to drive, period, and that had nothing to do with addiction or no)
 
al this is is TMZ's way of keeping the addict thing out there. gen public see addict and think heroin or something. its just P.R games on their side.
 
The autopsy report clearly showed that MJ was NOT addicted. Period.
 
u cannot form an addiction to propofol but u can form a dependency on it. and that may be what murray was referring to. ur body can lose the ability to fall asleep on its own.

but there is a such thing as a functioning addict. people who use heroin, not to get high, but just so they don't get sick throughout the day. or people who drink in the morning to stop the shakes but are fine until the shakes come back.

that's what they are referringto. using just enough to get by, not to get high.

they didn't say the im injection was for sure demerol but they did say that the bill code im usually means demerol. they also suggested that when those im injections happened, he was getting other minor painful treatments. so it looks as though he was going for dem. but got the most basic and least amount of something used so he could get it.
 
I hope FINALLY everyone understands the whole Autopsy pic is bullshit(like what Mike had to deal with while he was alive)

About the addiction thing..I think he might have become a bit dependent on some things..but I am not sure it's to the point where he was in an addiction mode..Im not sure;(
 
vncwilliam said:
all well and good, but MJ is known to have been adamantly against drugs. usually a person who is a functioning addict doesn't take a strong stand against drugs. there are magazines that i read that have articles and ads about 'typical stoners'. people who are not shy about what they do. they don't think anything is wrong with it, as long as they function. MJ showed absolutely NO change in his personality. it doesn't make sense to me that someone would change their entire belief system in one week, after 40 plus years in another direction, no matter what they go through. if anything, the belief system is the first thing a person lives by, then after that, whatever their habits are. MJ's strong personality belies all these media allegations against him. it's easier for me to believe some supposedly unlikely people are in others' pockets.
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You are right because my belief keeps me on track when I stray in my mind and heart.
 
ensleyave said:
He may have been dependent at one time but I think he was ready to move on with his life in a positive way.
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some may look at that as a maybe, but i look at it this way...

there are three scenarios...

we could wake up in a world where there is nothing but silence...(no media) and we could observe Michael's life, and the things he said, and the lyrics in the songs he wrote, and conclude that for a flash moment in his life, he was given morphine for great pain, but would notice that the word 'addiction' was never entered into vocabulary.

scenario two would be going according to our own world, and how we live, and judging him by that, however intentionally or unintentionally..and that judgement could be wrong, because there is only so much we can see in someone else..


scenario three would be how it is. we hear the powerful media, and whether or not we want to admit it, it influences..and we decide that he may have been addicted.

and let me add another scenario that can be quite insidious...

we decide by what we heard from others who say they were close to him. and...we judge, (however intentionally, or unintentionally) depending on how we felt about that person who said they knew him. and making the waters more murky is if that person was one that MJ seem to have glowing thoughts for, according to his words about them. let's say, Elizabeth Taylor, for example..

but in the end, once again, the most reliable source is what MJ said, himself. i have yet to meet, or hear about a person, whose pattern of speech doesn't give away their behaviour. no matter how able the person was to hide addiction, if pressed to give an opinion about it, by asking the question..'what do you think of drugs?', they won't lie to you. even if they are known to be a liar. because that question isn't aimed at them..it's aimed at the subject of drugs. they'll tell you that they either have no opinion, or, they'll say something along the lines of, 'you don't know me, so don't judge me'. and that answer says that, for them, it's not a terrible thing..they're not hurting anyone..it's their business whether they take drugs or not, and it allows for the possibility for them to take drugs, in a dependent manner, if they so choose.

again..Michael's opinion is clear. he was like a brick wall, putting up a blockade, when it came to drugs. he said so, many times, and leant a song to an anti drug commercial('Beat It'). that song 'Morphine', speaks of a flash of a moment in life, when he was in great pain, and he..in actuality..did the right thing...took morphine to stop the pain. then he stopped. it's like anyone else taking pain medication as long as the pain is there. it's only right. but then..after he stopped...his pain continued. so, that's not the same as dependency. there really was no time in his life that he was without pain..so, considering all that..he surely wasn't dependent.

dependency would be when someone no longer has the pain..and is habitually taking the medication.
 
Soso Deaf said:
they didn't say the im injection was for sure demerol but they did say that the bill code im usually means demerol. they also suggested that when those im injections happened, he was getting other minor painful treatments. so it looks as though he was going for dem. but got the most basic and least amount of something used so he could get it.
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I love you, Soso, but I have to add this point - just to play devil's advocate with you.

No morphine-like drugs were found in MJ. Had MJ had the dependency that Harvey Levin wants to imply, MJ would've been jacked up on it everyday.
 
shimar said:
I love you, Soso, but I have to add this point - just to play devil's advocate with you.

No morphine-like drugs were found in MJ. Had MJ had the dependency that Harvey Levin wants to imply, MJ would've been jacked up on it everyday.
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whenever mj did good at rehearsals,they would say it was b/c klien was out of town. so when was the last time klien was near mj? the balmain outfit...the one w/ the snow leopard pants?

cuz what is the half-life of morphine? how fast does it leave ur system?
 
No morphine-like drugs were found in MJ. Had MJ had the dependency that Harvey Levin wants to imply, MJ would've been jacked up on it everyday.
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and the liver etc would show signs of it.

last time klien was near mj? the balmain outfit...the one w/ the snow leopard pants?
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according to fans he was at kliens on the monday b4 the 25th.the 22nd
 
Help me out here please someone... what kind of difference do you guys make out between dependancy and addiction? I'm confused...

I know professionals in germany in the health- and/or socialfield do talk about a

- functional addict
when someone needs a substance, drug, whatever to be able to keep functional.
For example many... really many ppl in the health field are functional addicts themselves... often they have to keep awake and attentive for more than 24 hours with no 'real' sleep and no real breaks etc. many do use substances of whatever kind.
We usually call someone a functional addict when a substance is used in a way it is not meant for but every day life is still pretty much possible and 'normal' (I don't like using this word but I don't know a better one here for now)

- a healthy addict
is someone dependant on a certain substance, with a functional everyday life or not... still his body is not damaged by the addiction YET... coccaine for example doesn't damage the body from the very beginning... demerol doesn't in the very beginning... so if you're lucky your organs are still all not bothered by the addiction... like for example the lung from nicotin addiction can or the liver shows usually signs when there's an alcohol addiction pretty soon.


Propofol is nothing you usually get physically addicted to... however as I understood the doctor I've talked to, you can of cuz get psychologically addicted to it when you're using it regularly and you attribute an effect to it.
Best example for a psychological addiction gave my prof in developmental childhood psychology classes. Many very young children do always go asleep with the same pet in their arms, the favorite pet... then that very pet get lost. That's of cuz a very mild form. Another example... is the dummy. You will maybe laugh now... let me tell you the child honestly and really suffers without. Again that's a pretty mild form... a stronger form is when the body responds with a very real physical reaction.
This way it could very well be that the propofol not only helped with insomnia... but the missing propofol can be the very cause for insomnia also! devils circle of psychological addiction.


Anyways... it doesn't really matter in the end... the way out of any addiction is only to state a very clear NO and work on yourself. That's just not very likely when you feel a lot of pressure on yourself... it that pressure is created from others or from your very own self doesn't matter.

Also I have a very clear feeling that Michael was led into that 'addiction' (means if there was some)... nobody gets the idea 'hey let me try some propofol when suffering insomnia on their very own (not even when you've studied medicine, really!).

Btw also about what I was told about propofol or better diprivan over here in Germany I guess it was the way that Michael stoped breathing and after six minutes his brain did shut of cuz of lack of oxygen... if that is of any interest here at all.

*sigh* in the end of the day Michael is dead... and it still is nobody arrested... nobody is taking responsibility.
I guess they do have problems proving... and as bad as it is... that is probably why propofol was used from the very start... when this was a plan it was a very smart one... when it was an accident then be it... however I can't understand that Murray is still walking around with NO but really NO consequences... wow, I really shouldn't think about this... it drives me completely to the edge whenever!
 
Propofol is nothing you usually get physically addicted to... however as I understood the doctor I've talked to, you can of cuz get psychologically addicted to it when you're using it regularly and you attribute an effect to it.
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yeah i agree with that
 
and the last showing...the last taped perf? the night before he died...hence the 'good' performance and mj actually attending.
 
Soso Deaf said:
whenever mj did good at rehearsals,they would say it was b/c klien was out of town. so when was the last time klien was near mj? the balmain outfit...the one w/ the snow leopard pants?

cuz what is the half-life of morphine? how fast does it leave ur system?
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Credit to Justthefacts : :)


Urine 2 to 3 days
Hair up to 90 days
Blood 2 to 4 days
 
Since the painkiller hype was deflated for lack of any credible evidence, TMZ has to figure another avenue to keep things going. They are absolutely obsessed with Michael and posts two-three articles about him in one day sometimes. The insinuation about the Demerol was very cheap when he knows that Botox is injected into the muscles. There was a charge for the serum and most likely IM referred to the actual injections.

Tabloids want to keep stuff going and they can only do it with controversy. The one good thing is I have not seen any legitimate or even any other tabloid mimic the Demerol spin that TMZ was promoting.
 
I would really like to know what the truth was with Michael. It won't change at all how I feel about him but all these stories are driving me crazy. I remember when everyone waiting for the autopsy they thought there would be 100 medications in his system but it wasn't like that. Just what the doctor gave him that night. It also said he was healthy person with slight arthritis. I remember how surprised the tv people were on their shows. If he was this drug addict that people say wouldn't that affect his organs or something? The only thing I remember was I think in 93 or 94 he went into rehab briefly for pain medication he was taking.

I am waiting when someone will be charged because it cannot be ignored that his death was a homicide. It's been 4 months now and I don't want the police to forget or ignore this.
 
marebear said:
I remember how surprised the tv people were on their shows. If he was this drug addict that people say wouldn't that affect his organs or something?
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yes a drug addict has kidney and liver damage, he had none
 
"Alas there is really only one news source that we can rely on to bare the gold standard in sensationalism and callousness. Well 2 but mike wallace was taking a nap so.... take it away TMZ." (Joel McHale host of E!'s 'The Soup')
 
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