in response to Harvey Levin: No addict is Functional

[williamorange1]

Harvey Levin said today that MJ was an addict but a functional one , there is nothing as functional addict , or healthy addict . why the media is trying to twist everything , when he died he was not called "healthy" at all, but after the autopsy report was leaked they admited he was "healthy" but addict, please can someone explain to me how an addict is healthy and functional ? I mean isn't it being unhealthy and dysfunction the obvious disadvantages of being an addict and the reasons why someone should not abuse drugs :smilerolleyes:

Harvey Levin claimed mj was getting Demerol when no demerol was even mentioned in Klien's creditor claim and that he owed Klien 7000$ for a weekend visit because the IM injections were for demerol , but now klien says the bill was extraordinary because he had to rent a helicopter

as for the autopsy pics, I had to post what Justthefacts said because it is really very interesting :

I just read the story about this autopsy and I think it is total BS. First of all Michal's head was not shaved a coroner does not have to shave your head to get to your brain they cut along the airline and put it right back when they are done. Second Michael's eyes would not have been wide open because dead people can't hold there eyes open. Three the only person with a camera in that room is the coroner and his or her assistant it would way be way to easy to find out who did such a thing. And four a PIC like that would have been leaked a log time ago. The guy who wrote this story is a Conrad Murray lover.

 

[ivy]

please can someone explain to me how an addict is healthy and functional ?

they talked about it before, they call him functional addict due to the characteristics of propofol.

they say that propofol stays in your body system just for few minutes.
so even if you are addicted to it and use it constantly once you wake up and let's say 10-20 minutes passes it is no longer in your system. and therefore you are clean and functioning.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

they talked about it before, they call him functional addict due to the characteristics of propofol.

they say that propofol stays in your body system just for few minutes.
so even if you are addicted to it and use it constantly once you wake up and let's say 10-20 minutes passes it is no longer in your system. and therefore you are clean and functioning.

Yet I'm sure I've read articles on here from doctors who claim it is impossible to become addicted to propofol. The only source for the addiction claim is Murray (a consistant liar).

The media's mission is that when you think of MJ you think drug addict. TMZ loves to add snide comments to their article about Michael. Just look at the recent one about him house hunting.

 

[144000]

Originally Posted by ivy
they talked about it before, they call him functional addict due to the characteristics of propofol.

they say that propofol stays in your body system just for few minutes.
so even if you are addicted to it and use it constantly once you wake up and let's say 10-20 minutes passes it is no longer in your system. and therefore you are clean and functioning.
Yet I'm sure I've read articles on here from doctors who claim it is impossible to become addicted to propofol. The only source for the addiction claim is Murray (a consistant liar).

...........................................................................

which shows that idle convo can get real loud and long. it makes you wonder who "they" are. complete polar opposite views.

it also makes TMZ a real slippery slope...yet people want to find them reliable..

 

[williamorange1]

well, an addict to propofol is someone who reinject himself or get reinjected over and over and over again, some say up to 100 times aday , that's the only way you feel the "fruits" of getting propofol. MJ was ON OCCASION , get injected and go to "sleep" for the whole night . THAT WAS IT . he was not reinjected with it multiple times .

 

[ivy]

well, an addict to propofol is someone who reinject himself or get reinjected over and over and over again, some say up to 100 times aday , that's the only way you feel the "fruits" of getting propofol. MJ was ON OCCASION , get injected and go to "sleep" for the whole night . THAT WAS IT . he was not reinjected with it multiple times .

= functioning

he was not functioning the 6-8 hours a night that he took it and was functional when he did not took it for the remaining 16-18 hours.

I think they use "addict" as he used it "every night for a long time" sense.

 

[shimar]

Nothing can take away the fact that Michael was MURDERED.

Harvey can talk all he wants - and while I appreciate the breaking news on TMZ, they need to stop reporting OPINION - and get to reporting FACTS versus his opinion.

 

[ivy]

which shows that idle convo can get real loud and long. it makes you wonder who "they" are. complete polar opposite views.

it also makes TMZ a real slippery slope...yet people want to find them reliable..

I find them quite reliable (although I must say that I don't believe the demerol story).

anyway they (they = whoever is doing the live chat) talk about propofol and addiction and functioning thing very often.

2 important points
- They said that any claim saying that "MJ did not know what he was doing due to drugs" will never hold - once again due to propofol and him being "functional". They state that he might take it at night to sleep but rest of the time he would be alert, aware and functional.

- they also said that the levels found in his system was so high , given the fact that it only stays in the human body for a few minutes, it shows it was a really high overdose and Dr. could not possibly argue a "accidental overdose".

 

[ivy]

Nothing can take away the fact that Michael was MURDERED.

Harvey can talk all he wants - and while I appreciate the breaking news on TMZ, they need to stop reporting OPINION - and get to reporting FACTS versus his opinion.

I think that he agrees with you. They would never use the words "murder" or "murderer" but I think 1 or 2 days ago they stated that the levels of propofol in MJ system was too high to be an accident and it basically suffocated his heart. Doesn't that sound like "homicide"?

 

[shimar]

I think that he agrees with you. They would never use the words "murder" or "murderer" but I think 1 or 2 days ago they stated that the levels of propofol in MJ system was too high to be an accident and it basically suffocated his heart.

Technically, the amount found in MJs system caused MJ's brain to stop working. The brain controls all movements in the body, including your hearts & lungs.

With the TOXIC amounts of propofol, the brain shut down, MJ's lungs & heart stopped working. Not to mention all the other stuff that Murray gave him as an excuse to wean him off propofol - supposedly.

MJ was MURDERED. And they can talk all the crap they wanna talk. The forensics prove it.

I gotta go to sleep - long past couple of days & tomorrow another long one.

 

[williamorange1]

I think they use "addict" as he used it "every night for a long time" sense.

Matt Alford said Murray stayed at mj's house only on occasions and most of the nights he stayed at his girlfriend apartment . he said that after Murray told the investigators he gave mj propofol for six weeks .


also Travis and Ortega both said that they knew mj was not sleeping at night because he was calling them alot .

under the conditions Murray was giving propofol to mj , mj would have been dead way before that night .

one important thing Murray did not say mj was addict to propofol, " MURRAY felt that JACKSON may have been forming an addiction to PROPOFOL (DIPRIVAN),and tried to wean JACKSON off of the drug"

Murray needed to explain the HIGH amounts of BENZO drugs in mj's body and that was the explanation . he was not giving him propofol every night , NOWAY .

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

= functioning

he was not functioning the 6-8 hours a night that he took it and was functional when he did not took it for the remaining 16-18 hours.

I think they use "addict" as he used it "every night for a long time" sense.

I disagree. I think they have something else in mind. There is a way in which they want us to see MJ. I guess they can't ignore certain facts though.

 

[parli123]

addiction means when you need something all the time. Michael was given Propofol only during the night for a few hours and we do not know how many nights. Didn't Murray said that Michael would sleep with only Ativan and Valium sometimes? Many People take sleeping tablets to sleep every night, how come they do not label them addict.. I get it!! It is Michael we are talking about here. The Man they want to bring down..

 

[williamorange1]

shimar MJ died of a cardiac arrest , which caused the other organs to stop functioning .

 

[parli123]

I thought it was respiratory arrest which stopped the brain and heart. Propofol has to deal with breathing..

 

[144000]

the point is, the more that people talk, the more the imagination runs. there's an old saying about idle minds, and chatter..

but anyway...the more this is talked about on tmz, the more the crazed imagination can go out of control. talk is cheap. it took a while for Levin to come up with the 'addict is functional' thing. and it came after he had many days to talk a lot about the Michael Jackson case. and the fact that all this comes AFTER The early success and viewing of the movie, makes them even more illegitimate in their idle chatter. it just looks like another episode of go after MJ AFTER he looks successful. sorta like the law suit-ers.

 

[williamorange1]

Ignorant : Jackson was a functional addict

fan: still he was a good daddy

Ignorant : no addict is a good daddy

fan: but he was functional ,right ?

Ignorant : well....oh ... Fuck off pedo lovers .





Ignorant : he was a healthy addict

fan : yeah he was a good daddy

Ignorant: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, no addict is a good daddy , he destroyed his health he did not care about his kids

fan: but have not you just said he was a HEALTHY addict

Ignorant : well....yeah ohhh, whatever you are Wack0 Jack00 like your hero.



isn't this what happen with you everyday on other messageboards . I mean people will twist everything and start shouting when they are corrected . the ignorance is unbelievable.

 

[PrincessMichaela]

I'm *not* saying Michael was an addict - this is totally aside from that discussion - but there is such a thing as a "functional and healthy" addict (of course the terms 'functional' and 'healthy' are objective and there are many different levels of addiction.) I lived with someone who struggled with a crack cocaine addiction for ten years and had us fooled (to a point). We saw little signs of something wrong, occasional odd behavior, but couldn't pin point it for a long time. People who didn't live with this person were completely unaware, had them all fooled. Some people are very very good at hiding and dealing with it, others are not. I know this is a tired example, but I mean, look at Heath Ledger in Batman. That's pure untainted brilliance, not the mark of an addict or the stereotype of one.

(I understand by me countering this, it may sound like I'm just giving support to the media's claims, but that's why I'm posting here and not in the comments of some article. I don't mean to give tabloids fodder. My discussion isn't MJ-related.)

 

[Autumn II]

Propofol is not a physically addicting drug. In other words, the body does not crave it and go into withdrawals if one does not have it regularly. There may be a psychological addiction, but I'd assume that is EXTREMELY rare.

Michael had problems in the past with opiate-type medications such as morphine and demerol. . pain-killers. He spoke about that, and it's no secret. He even wrote a song about it, "Morphine," and he was honest. From the reports that have been released, and "leaked," there were no opiates found in his system. Opiates are physically addicting and a person gets sick if addicted and does not have the drugs regularly. There is no indication that Michael was addicted to them when he died.

In terms of anyone being a "functional addict," I'd think it would be a case-by-case basis. Some people are intentionally addicted ("medical" addiction), in cases of intractable pain. If any drug, or alcohol, affects effectiveness and normal functioning in the world, or causes physical harm, then that's NOT a good thing.

 

[144000]

Propofol is not a physically addicting drug. In other words, the body does not crave it and go into withdrawals if one does not have it regularly. There may be a psychological addiction, but I'd assume that is EXTREMELY rare.

Michael had problems in the past with opiate-type medications such as morphine and demerol. . pain-killers. He spoke about that, and it's no secret. He even wrote a song about it, "Morphine," and he was honest. From the reports that have been released, and "leaked," there were no opiates found in his system. Opiates are physically addicting and a person gets sick if addicted and does not have the drugs regularly. There is no indication that Michael was addicted to them when he died.

the problem is, that even when someone is honest about something, and speaks about it, and writes a song about, it, public reaction is a lot like it would be if there were no song or speech. people still interpret what they heard, differently. some may say he took the pain killers, because he should have, and he didn't have a problem. he had great pain. what else could he do? what could anyone do in that situation? but since he didn't stay on the stuff, it couldn't be called an addiction. when the pain went away, so did the morphine. even still more..he's impressive, cus much of the pain remained cus of how he was treated by enemies...and...his skin pain from his vitiligo. and yet he still stopped taking the morphine. the song doesn't mention the word addiction. it says he's taking morphine.
........................................................................................

i don't even know that Heath Ledger was on drugs during that performance. i think his death happened long after that movie was done. then, they released it after his death. perhaps the drugs started long after he did that role. i haven't seen that movie Batman yet.

 

[LuvUMost]

addiction means when you need something all the time. Michael was given Propofol only during the night for a few hours and we do not know how many nights. Didn't Murray said that Michael would sleep with only Ativan and Valium sometimes? Many People take sleeping tablets to sleep every night, how come they do not label them addict.. I get it!! It is Michael we are talking about here. The Man they want to bring down..

Ya know, I gotta agree with you here. Somebody is spending alot of energy trying to tear MJ down. I have to wonder why... (greed, hate, secrets, what!?)

 

[PrincessMichaela]

i don't even know that Heath Ledger was on drugs during that performance. i think his death happened long after that movie was done. then, they released it after his death. perhaps the drugs started long after he did that role. i haven't seen that movie Batman yet.

He finished filming in November and died in January. But regardless, the point I am trying to make is that there are many people who are able to hold down jobs and relationships while battling an addiction, leaving behind little to no evidence.

 

[Anna]

It's entirely possible to be a functional addict. I like a musician who got addicted to strong painkillers because of a back condition. The only difference in him was his behaviour was sometimes slightly more hyper/crazier than usual. But he still functioned the same.

 

[kasume]

I think that he agrees with you. They would never use the words "murder" or "murderer" but I think 1 or 2 days ago they stated that the levels of propofol in MJ system was too high to be an accident and it basically suffocated his heart. Doesn't that sound like "homicide"?

With all the other crap that was already in his system?? Sounds to me like FIRST DEGREE murder rather than unintentional.

One doesn't even have to be a doctor to know that's deadly. No way Michael would allow all those chemicals inside his body like that just for some damn sleep. It doesn't even sound like him.

Personally, I don't believe Michael asked for ANY propofol AT ALL.

But let's say it was true, and he did for some strange reason. If he didn't take anything he would have fallen asleep EVENTUALLY and if he missed practice the next morning, who cares? Didn't he say he was "ready to go now" to London. Most of us saw him in the rehearsals, he was READY and didn't need any more rehearsing anyways.

 

[CherubimII]

According to the Los Angeles Coroner the official cause
of Michael Jackson's death was "Homicide".

 

[8701girl]

Ummm i think the movie speak for itself!!!

Mj did not look like a addict in that movie..far from it!!!

he looked great!

 

[kasume]

According to the Los Angeles Coroner the official cause
of Michael Jackson's death was "Homicide".

That's right. But the big mystery is was it "intentional" or "untentional".

That's a big difference.

And there's so many strange fish swimmin around all of a sudden and out of nowhere with either strange or contradicting stories (Kleine, the nurse, Murray), questionable actions (Murray, Kleine), shady backgrounds or broken ties with MJ in the past (THOME, whom MJ even admitted was strange and had worked to get rid of, Blanca, McClain).

I remember a doctor said that injecting propofol into a patient without any right medical equipment is like "shooting a mouse with a cannonball." Autopsy shows very high levels of propofol, so that's like shooting a mouse with three cannonballs at the least, how can one do that and NOT INTEND to kill the mouse. I hope I'm making sense.

I think investigators have a strong feeling, or maybe half know that it was actually intentional. They just need more evidence.

We just have to keep our faith and remember that saying, "the lie can be halfway around the world, while the truth is still putting on it's shoes."

 

[comet1]

With the TOXIC amounts of propofol, the brain shut downQUOTE]

yeah, i heard if michael had made it, he would have been brain dead, imagine that

 

[kasume]

No. I dont want to imagine that because it would mean that he would have irreversible and severe brain damage, and probably wouldnt never be able to do his concerts because of it, then he'd had to live with some mental disfunction for the rest of his life, while having the return to his fans and the gift to his children taken away from him before his very eyes.

That's worse than being gone (but in heaven).

....I'm just waiting for the REAL truth to emerge from the depths of darkness.

 

[144000]

He finished filming in November and died in January. But regardless, the point I am trying to make is that there are many people who are able to hold down jobs and relationships while battling an addiction, leaving behind little to no evidence.

all well and good, but MJ is known to have been adamantly against drugs. usually a person who is a functioning addict doesn't take a strong stand against drugs. there are magazines that i read that have articles and ads about 'typical stoners'. people who are not shy about what they do. they don't think anything is wrong with it, as long as they function. MJ showed absolutely NO change in his personality. it doesn't make sense to me that someone would change their entire belief system in one week, after 40 plus years in another direction, no matter what they go through. if anything, the belief system is the first thing a person lives by, then after that, whatever their habits are. MJ's strong personality belies all these media allegations against him. it's easier for me to believe some supposedly unlikely people are in others' pockets.