If there was evidence that Michael ever harmed a child,would you still be a fan?

[Thriller_MJ]

This is purely a discussion, nothing more.


I've always wondered how I would feel if anything incriminating ever came forward about MJ and as a fan if I would still like his music. I think we can all agree Michaels life wasn't normal and he wasn't a normal person, however, that being said I'm still torn on a couple of things.

Given the impact he had on pop culture anything damming or incriminating brought forward about him would totally destroy anything good he did. It's an interesting dynamic. I think with all the sycophants in Michaels life and his lack of awareness outside his bubble, he was taken advantage off and people just looked at him as a cash cow. But as a fan I honestly don't know how i would react if anything incriminating was presented about MJ. I think we can all agree his behaviours weren't exactly normal but that's not to say that anyone who behaves different is a criminal. I dunno man, i'd just like to see his name cleared once and for all about all this stuff.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

There's no such thing as normal. BUT if Michael did do anything (which he didn't) he would need to go to jail and get some serious help. love Michael but if he did anything wrong i will call him out for it. he may be one of biggest superstars in the world. but if he did a crime he deserve the time. MJINNOCENT

 

[Robbsaber01]

Its weird this thread popped up. I recently found this YT channel of a "former fan" who now believes the lies.
https://www.youtube.com/user/lindalovesmusic1
At first I was confused because of all the pro mj videos in the past. I thought it was an anti mj page. Feel free to give her some facts/report her nonsense videos. Its just sad that even fans can be flipped. To answer your question I would not support MJ at all. No excuses.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Its weird this thread popped up. I recently found this YT channel of a "former fan" who now believes the lies.
https://www.youtube.com/user/lindalovesmusic1
At first I was confused because of all the pro mj videos in the past. I thought it was an anti mj page. Feel free to give her some facts/report her nonsense videos. Its just sad that even fans can be flipped. To answer your question I would not support MJ at all. No excuses.

Be wary of people who claim to be “former fans”. In reality, they are haters who were never fans and just pretend that they are now former fans and believe the scam. I have had many debates with these so-called “former fans”. In the end I exposed them as not being fans at all. I would bet anything that this so-called former fans was NEVER a fan. Don’t let people like that trick you into believing their AGENDA.

 

[SilkySnare]

I think we can all agree Michaels life wasn't normal and he wasn't a normal person, however, that being said I'm still torn on a couple of things.

This is just the thing. Why wasn't he normal?
I mean, sure...he had an abnormal talent for music. And he had an incredible sense of empathy. And he didn't get along with most people because he was too honest and good. But, uhm...that actually also describes me very well. Besides the music talent, of course If I had his money, I would act exactly the same.

He was ahead of its time and destroyed by the media. He wasn't weird. Let's list some things that supposedly make him weird;

- He secluded himeself on his ranch
We all do that. We find our safe place which is our home with our family. But most of us try to fit in with the general population. Because we have to. We have to go to our jobs, to the store, to the post office. He didn't. There was no need for him to do that. And even if he did, which he wanted, the media would just swarm him and ruin everything.
So when you don't get along with most of the people and are disabled on the street by the media...what else do you have left? I would also build myself my own safe world. With arcade machines and animals. I love animals and so did he. I love videogames and so did he.
I honestly and objectively see nothing weird with his ranch.

- He looked weird
Well, uhm...do we really need to go into that? He had a disease. Let's just move on please.

- He hanged around with children
You see...I'm more an animal than people guy. If I was in his place, I would surround myself with animals, not humans. But he loved the human race and he loved every single person. But grown ups are idiots who just want to use him for his money. Who do you turn to, then? The children of course!
Children were his friends because they had fun, not because he was Michael Jackson. I mean...you gotta have SOME human contact, right? I personally like children only to a certain extent. I like to play with them, but that's it. They can quickly get on my nerves. So I wouldn't spend my free time with them. I would go with animals.
So is it weird for a regular person to hang with kids? Probably, yes. Is it weird for Michael Jackson? I say no.

- He dressed funny
He was a star. A king. A self-made royalty. Of course he dressed lavishly. He made sure that every one of his public appearences was in style. And I absolutely LOVE that! He created his own style and set his own trends. Do you really want him to walk around in jeans and a sweater?


So please...list some more things that make him strange and not normal. I would really like to hear some reasons why people perceive him that way...

 

[mj_frenzy]

Michael Jackson intentionally wanted to be perceived by many people as a not normal, but instead a weird, strange figure when he started to plant fake, weird stories in the press about himself in the mid/late ‘80s (with the help of Frank Dileo).

Many of those fake stories appeared also on his ‘Leave Me Alone’ music video in an effort to enforce them even more to people's mind.

Also, his increasing use of wearing a surgical mask in many public occasions (as a way to establish a new trademark) made many people consider him even more a weird figure.

But it was not just that peculiar fixation he had with that mask.

For example, his public appearance in court one time wearing his pyjamas and slippers (2005) raised eyebrows.

Especially, during his final years, certain things that Michael Jackson did they fueled even more people’s opinion about him being a weird figure.

Three examples just off the top of my head:

In 2008 (December), he appeared publicly wearing a Zorro mask.

In 2008 (July), he appeared publicly wearing pyjamas and moving in a wheelchair.

In 2007 (December), he appeared publicly with his face covered in sticking plasters.

Michael Jackson was desperately trying to be in the limelight for the biggest part of his life, not just by means of his art but also through other unconventional ways like all those that I mentioned above.

It was mainly about him creating mystery and attracting attention.

 

[Thriller_MJ]

Michael Jackson intentionally wanted to be perceived by many people as a not normal, but instead a weird, strange figure when he started to plant fake, weird stories in the press about himself in the mid/late ‘80s (with the help of Frank Dileo).

Many of those fake stories appeared also on his ‘Leave Me Alone’ music video in an effort to enforce them even more to people's mind.

Also, his increasing use of wearing a surgical mask in many public occasions (as a way to establish a new trademark) made many people consider him even more a weird figure.

But it was not just that peculiar fixation he had with that mask.

For example, his public appearance in court one time wearing his pyjamas and slippers (2005) raised eyebrows.

Especially, during his final years, certain things that Michael Jackson did they fueled even more people’s opinion about him being a weird figure.

Three examples just off the top of my head:

In 2008 (December), he appeared publicly wearing a Zorro mask.

In 2008 (July), he appeared publicly wearing pyjamas and moving in a wheelchair.

In 2007 (December), he appeared publicly with his face covered in sticking plasters.

Michael Jackson was desperately trying to be in the limelight for the biggest part of his life, not just by means of his art but also through other unconventional ways like all those that I mentioned above.

It was mainly about him creating mystery and attracting attention.

So what you're saying is MJ is a classic case of you reap what you sew? If he planted fake stories of himself and then complained about media treatment then that's his fault nobody elses. Of course the media treated him horribly but he wasn't doing himself any favours either.

 

[SilkySnare]

Michael Jackson intentionally wanted to be perceived by many people as a not normal, but instead a weird, strange figure when he started to plant fake, weird stories in the press about himself in the mid/late ‘80s (with the help of Frank Dileo).

Many of those fake stories appeared also on his ‘Leave Me Alone’ music video in an effort to enforce them even more to people's mind.

Also, his increasing use of wearing a surgical mask in many public occasions (as a way to establish a new trademark) made many people consider him even more a weird figure.

But it was not just that peculiar fixation he had with that mask.

For example, his public appearance in court one time wearing his pyjamas and slippers (2005) raised eyebrows.

Especially, during his final years, certain things that Michael Jackson did they fueled even more people’s opinion about him being a weird figure.

Three examples just off the top of my head:

In 2008 (December), he appeared publicly wearing a Zorro mask.

In 2008 (July), he appeared publicly wearing pyjamas and moving in a wheelchair.

In 2007 (December), he appeared publicly with his face covered in sticking plasters.

Michael Jackson was desperately trying to be in the limelight for the biggest part of his life, not just by means of his art but also through other unconventional ways like all those that I mentioned above.

It was mainly about him creating mystery and attracting attention.

I'm sorry, but this is most likely completely wrong.
Yes, he did tease the media with a couple of fake stories, but that was not because he had a grand scheme behind it. He was just poking fun at them, something he liked to do in general. He was just naive and didn't predict the terrible consequences that would follow.
Yes, that stuff was in the Leave me Alone video. But I don't think for the reason that you mentioned. It was a culmination of headlines that the media had already been portraying about him. There was no need to do it further, your reasoning is just absurd.

Surgical mask as a trademark? What? have you ever been to Japan? People wear them everywhere over there. It's something you do to protect yourself from the germs.

That time in pyamas? Wasn't that the same time he fell under the shower and showed up all confused with a dislocated shoulder? You actually think he wanted to show up in pyamas?

How do you know the story behind the wheelchair? Did you talk to him?

Oh wow, he had a Zorro mask. Yeah...that's super weird, mhm :yes:

I mean we are talking about a man who was super sophisticated, was meeting almost every important person on this planet, was trying to keep his art on the highest possible level of quality...you really think he would want to do that?
He wanted to get away from it all, why would he seek such twisted media attention? It makes no sense. He didn't NEED that kind of attention. It was enough for him to walk down the road and people would be all over him.

I'm really struggling to makes sense of your way of thinking

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Being around kids is okay. yeah some people may think it's weird but it's not. as long the person is kind and don't want to hurt them. a lot of psychologists claimed michael behavior was normal. i like kids too and my psychologist says it's fine. while me and Michael are different in some ways this topic maybe kind of different for both of us.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I like i said in a thread earlier this year. Michael should of got help. when i say that people thinks i'm being rude. and no i'm not. he went though some serious trauma and should of just went. i heard that the family was gonna go to family therapy but Michael didn't want to. if this true he should have. i understand Michael family is crazy and he probably didn't want to go to family therapy. that's understandable but for his own sake he should of went by himself. they claimed Michael had depression by the middle of his life and that's no surprise due all the crap he when though during that time. i feel so sorry for him.

 

[Robbsaber01]

Be wary of people who claim to be “former fans”. In reality, they are haters who were never fans and just pretend that they are now former fans and believe the scam. I have had many debates with these so-called “former fans”. In the end I exposed them as not being fans at all. I would bet anything that this so-called former fans was NEVER a fan. Don’t let people like that trick you into believing their AGENDA.

Agreed. I'm skeptical this person was ever really a fan also. These people will do anything to sound credible.

 

[PoP]

I still be a fan, but I’d become a very different person like I would’ve been in 2005. A very dark person.

 

[analogue]

If Michael was guilty I would have been done with him and his music a long time ago.

 

[Alh21]

If Michael was guilty I would have been done with him and his music a long time ago.

I have to agree with that as well, but thankfully he isn’t guilty, my son asked me the very same question a few days ago.

 

[Alh21]

I like i said in a thread earlier this year. Michael should of got help. when i say that people thinks i'm being rude. and no i'm not. he went though some serious trauma and should of just went. i heard that the family was gonna go to family therapy but Michael didn't want to. if this true he should have. i understand Michael family is crazy and he probably didn't want to go to family therapy. that's understandable but for his own sake he should of went by himself. they claimed Michael had depression by the middle of his life and that's no surprise due all the crap he when though during that time. i feel so sorry for him.

what makes you think Michaels family was crazy?

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Michael family is nuts. read up his history and how Michael explain his family. he mostly looked to is janet, his mother, and i can't think of one his other brothers who looked up to him. it was only those 3 that keep him going. the rest of his brothers and sisters only used him for money and was jealous of him. we all make mistakes. none of us are prefect but they did Michael wrong. that's why he went solo and moved far away. he was tired of their drama.

 

[z21]

What a stupid question. How there could be evidence in shit that didn't happen?

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

the user was only asking a question. i don't think they trying to offend anyone.

 

[Thriller_MJ]

the user was only asking a question. i don't think they trying to offend anyone.

Considering I said right at the start it's only a discussion, seems to have went over someone's head a bit.

 

[Nantucket Cat]

I took it as a hypothetical. The "if" in the thread title is just that, an "if."

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Its weird this thread popped up. I recently found this YT channel of a "former fan" who now believes the lies.
https://www.youtube.com/user/lindalovesmusic1
At first I was confused because of all the pro mj videos in the past. I thought it was an anti mj page. Feel free to give her some facts/report her nonsense videos. Its just sad that even fans can be flipped. To answer your question I would not support MJ at all. No excuses.

Please don't share the links to those Youtubers. You help to give them views and attention!
Don't trust them in any way! There are some paid influencers out there who run MJFacts and other pages.

When there would be any strong evidence that MJ had abused any child I whould compleatly turn my back on him and NEVER listen or watching his art again!
Cause for me it is absolutly not possible in Michaels case to sepperate him from his art!
When MJ would be guilty all his art and what he did would be a compleate lie and fabrication!
He said when he was 11 (what is for me one of the most important MJ quotes) "whatever I sing in a song, this is what I really mean. I don't sing it if I don't mean it" and repeated this quote in "History" to make it significant for his compleate work!
When I listen to his music I can absolutly convicingly feel esspecially in his Humanitarian / childrenrelated songs byond the lyrics that he always truly ment and expressed them and nothing else (no sexual energy noticeable in those songs).
He always stood compleatly behind it with all his heart and did not act!
(This makes his art probably to his biggest most powerful sward against the conspiracy.)
This one of the strong reasons why I very strongly belive in his innocence and defend him!

But when there would be a absolut strong evidence for his guilt the whole picture from him as an artist and a person would compleatly fall appart,
I would feel compleatly betrayed and could never stand him in any way!

 

[SilkySnare]

When I listen to his music I can absolutly feel esspecially in his Humanitarian / childrenrelated songs byond the lyrics that he always absolutly ment and expressed them and nothing else (no sexual energy noticeable in those songs). He always stood compleatly behind it with all his heart!
This one of the strong reasons why I very strongly belive in his innocence and defend him!
But when there would be a absolut strong evidence for his guilt the whole picture from him as an artist and a person would compleatly fall appart,
I would feal compleatly betrayed and could never stand him in any way!

Exactly this!
If it turned out he had sex with kids...that would mean most of his music and messages were faked. And that he was just puting on a carefully crafted persona.
He would really need to be an insane sociopath to pull that off. It's baffling to me how some people see this scenario to be more believable than the alternative.

But hey...I would still blast his music. It's just too deeply rooted inside me. However, I would stop getting wet eyes and goosebumps while listening.

 

[Anna]

The evidence would have to be totally irrefutable to change my feelings about Michael, given the amount of rubbish we've been bombarded with over the years.

With that being said, we live in a world of duality. Everyone has both light and dark inside them. The most "good", loving and kind person is still capable of doing something terrible. And even the most "evil", hateful and cruel person is capable of acts of kindness.
If it turned out that Michael had hurt a child, that would be horrific and totally inexcusable - and it would certainly change how I look at him and his art - but again, it's duality. It wouldn't suddenly mean that he was just an evil person and that's it. Even though the act itself is obviously abhorrent, it would not erase the good aspects of his personality or all the good things he did: the love and care that he gave to his family, friends and fans, breaking racial barriers, raising awareness for the environment, creatively and morally inspiring others, the hundreds of millions of dollars he gave to charity, thousands of lives saved, millions of lives changed for the better. Not to mention all of the acts of kindness and charity fans have done because of Michael or to honour Michael. All of those things would still exist and still count and still matter.

I realise it would mean that Michael was dishonest and manipulative at times. But those close to him say that Michael was a kind, caring, and loving person for his entire life. It wasn't a facade that he suddenly adopted at some point or put on in front of certain people. And even those of us who didn't know him personally can see that he demonstrated those qualities consistently. So even in a scenario where abuse had happened, his good qualities would still be genuine, for the most part.

I can't say for certain how I would feel regarding his art, but I think I would still be able to enjoy it. It would still be beautiful, powerful, and meaningful. And it would still reflect the Divine in him.

I know some people might read that and think, "paedo apologist", so I will repeat myself: child abuse is inexcusable, no matter what. There is no justification for it and no good deeds can erase it or make it better. My point is that it also works the other way - bad deeds/qualities don't erase good deeds/qualities. I always try to consider the whole picture, because people are very complex. Duality is the current reality of human existence, but it's not something that a lot of people want to think about. It's much easier to just put someone in the good box or the bad box. And they especially like putting people in the bad box, because it makes them feel better about themselves.

 

[Alh21]

The evidence would have to be totally irrefutable to change my feelings about Michael, given the amount of rubbish we've been bombarded with over the years.

With that being said, we live in a world of duality. Everyone has both light and dark inside them. The most "good", loving and kind person is still capable of doing something terrible. And even the most "evil", hateful and cruel person is capable of acts of kindness.
If it turned out that Michael had hurt a child, that would be horrific and totally inexcusable - and it would certainly change how I look at him and his art - but again, it's duality. It wouldn't suddenly mean that he was just an evil person and that's it. Even though the act itself is obviously abhorrent, it would not erase the good aspects of his personality or all the good things he did: the love and care that he gave to his family, friends and fans, breaking racial barriers, raising awareness for the environment, creatively and morally inspiring others, the hundreds of millions of dollars he gave to charity, thousands of lives saved, millions of lives changed for the better. Not to mention all of the acts of kindness and charity fans have done because of Michael or to honour Michael. All of those things would still exist and still count and still matter.

I realise it would mean that Michael was dishonest and manipulative at times. But those close to him say that Michael was a kind, caring, and loving person for his entire life. It wasn't a facade that he suddenly adopted at some point or put on in front of certain people. And even those of us who didn't know him personally can see that he demonstrated those qualities consistently. So even in a scenario where abuse had happened, his good qualities would still be genuine, for the most part.

I can't say for certain how I would feel regarding his art, but I think I would still be able to enjoy it. It would still be beautiful, powerful, and meaningful. And it would still reflect the Divine in him.

I know some people might read that and think, "paedo apologist", so I will repeat myself: child abuse is inexcusable, no matter what. There is no justification for it and no good deeds can erase it or make it better. My point is that it also works the other way - bad deeds/qualities don't erase good deeds/qualities. I always try to consider the whole picture, because people are very complex. Duality is the current reality of human existence, but it's not something that a lot of people want to think about. It's much easier to just put someone in the good box or the bad box. And they especially like putting people in the bad box, because it makes them feel better about themselves.

In my opinion if Michael was guilty then he wouldn't be the person that we all know, he wouldn't have cared about the things we all know him for so it wouldn't be an issue, I can't think of one pedophile that's ever done anything good. If Michael was a pedophile then no one would be having this conversation, I hope that makes sense as to what I'm trying to say

 

[Anna]

I can't think of one pedophile that's ever done anything good.

As uncomfortable a notion as this may seem, Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Ian Watkins, Gary Glitter, and Roman Polanski all did good things - art and entertainment that people enjoyed, charity, etc. And there's the smaller everyday things that everyone does, no matter how despicable they are as a person. Even serial killers and genocidal dictators do some good things in their lives, especially before they descend into their darkness. They have people or things they care about. But we're getting a bit off track here.

 

[Robbsaber01]

Please don't share the links to those Youtubers. You help to give them views and attention!
Don't trust them in any way! There are some paid influencers out there who run MJFacts and other pages.

When there would be any strong evidence that MJ had abused any child I whould compleatly turn my back on him and NEVER listen or watching his art again!
Cause for me it is absolutly not possible in Michaels case to sepperate him from his art!
When MJ would be guilty all his art and what he did would be a compleate lie and fabrication!
He said when he was 11 (what is for me one of the most important MJ quotes) "whatever I sing in a song, this is what I really mean. I don't sing it if I don't mean it" and repeated this quote in "History" to make it significant for his compleate work!
When I listen to his music I can absolutly convicingly feel esspecially in his Humanitarian / childrenrelated songs byond the lyrics that he always truly ment and expressed them and nothing else (no sexual energy noticeable in those songs).
He always stood compleatly behind it with all his heart and did not act!
(This makes his art probably to his biggest most powerful sward against the conspiracy.)
This one of the strong reasons why I very strongly belive in his innocence and defend him!

But when there would be a absolut strong evidence for his guilt the whole picture from him as an artist and a person would compleatly fall appart,
I would feel compleatly betrayed and could never stand him in any way!

Normally I wouldnt post any page like that but this one seemed relevant to this thread. I agree. Look at R Kelly and Bill Cosby. I cant look / listen to them anymore because of what they have done.

 

[Alh21]

As uncomfortable a notion as this may seem, Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Ian Watkins, Gary Glitter, and Roman Polanski all did good things - art and entertainment that people enjoyed, charity, etc. And there's the smaller everyday things that everyone does, no matter how despicable they are as a person. Even serial killers and genocidal dictators do some good things in their lives, especially before they descend into their darkness. They have people or things they care about. But we're getting a bit off track here.

I don’t care what good things these people have done pedophiles have no place on this earth in my opinion, they can’t be rehabilitated it’s not possible, but yes I agree we are getting of topic, I just wanted to give my opinion on this

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

None us are perfect. we all sinners. like i said earlier in this thread. if he did do anything me and my mother would very very disappointed in him. he will have to go to jail to do the time and get the help that he needs.

but he didn't do anything. so there's really no point of this thread to be honest.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Would of me and my mother still listen to his music etc? i can't answer that. that's very hard to answer. he an legend and spread an good message.

 

[CaptainEoLove85]

No. I wouldn't feel comfortable listening to his music either. It would mean a lot of the lyrics in his songs would be lies.