I really don't understand why the majority of the general public dismiss everything after Thriller

[mjjmsc]

because they are childish, thriller is the easiest to accept album, after that Michael tried to challenge himself and the public, both in music and message, he tried to make us think!

 

[Korlay]

I think this is another sad side-effect of the "freak show" image that the media started painting after Thriller. You had the crazy tabloid stories, the allegations, all of which built up to that and was then pounded into everyone's minds. People were so put off by his supposed weirdness that it turned them off from his later music.

^This:big_boss:

I know around Dangerous a lot of people including A/B list celebrities (Don Cornelius being one of them I should say) seemed to think Michael was a sell out to his race or wanted to be white, which didn't damage his career because Michael was honored to be a black male and was well established by then, but I personally know people like this.. that only listen to Thriller on down because of the "bleached skin" assumptions and media BS; whatever lies the media put out about Michael the general public believe it, it's sad.

 

[Merovee]

Thriller was his biggest success so in that sense it makes sense that that's the one the general public focuses on but honestly it was never his best cd, his best stuff he did both before and after that.

I actually liked Bad more than Thriller. *looks around in paranoia*

 

[analogue]

I actually liked Bad more than Thriller. *looks around in paranoia*

90% of the people here would agree with you

 

[Ferrari]

I agree with most of you guys!

I think it was unfortunate that so many narrow-minded people were quick to judge Michael due to the media's portrayal of him after Thriller. His emerging personal life, changing appearance and new musical direction more than likely changed many people's perception of him, which is a massive shame. Personally, my favourite albums are Bad and Dangerous and in my opinion, every album he did after Thriller were just as amazing and mind-blowing, if not more so. I think he just got better and better as he got older.

Unfortunately, many people don't like change and I think Bad was a big shock to many as it was so different and from then on, they didn't wanna know. I've loved how he's evolved through the years! If he'd stayed the same and never pushed the boundaries, that would have been a total shame.

I've never understood people's obsession with other people's personal lives either, famous or not. He's famous for his incredible talent and it should have stayed at that. What he chose to do in his spare time should never have been an issue or altered people's perception of him as an artist. That makes me angry!

I won't even discuss the first allegation or the trial, because all that crap was just beyond ridiculous.

But yeah, all his work is just as incredible after Thriller. It would be nice if the youth of today would put down their Lil Wayne and Justin Bieber CD's and pick up the Xscape album. Then they might realise that there is more to life than asses, hoes, twerking and owning a Rolex. ;D

 

[Heni]

I agree with most of you guys!

I think it was unfortunate that so many narrow-minded people were quick to judge Michael due to the media's portrayal of him after Thriller. His emerging personal life, changing appearance and new musical direction more than likely changed many people's perception of him, which is a massive shame.

The fact that people were influenced by what the media claimed about him is ridiculous. Why did they care about so much about his personal life and appearance and not enjoy his music? This makes me so sad... Even if they'd believed all the stuff by the media about him, why did they "judge" his music as well? It seems so crazy to me...

 

[Doggone]

Thriller may be the best selling album but Dangerous and Bad are much better! Those albums are underrated especially Dangerous.

I agree with the guys over here. I think people paid too much attention to on his appearance. People didn't know he had vitiligo during the Bad era. Especially black people started to dislike him. Even though Michael was very very proud to be a black African American it was hard to convince the people who started to dislike you. People started to believe the tabloids rather than Michael.

IMHO I think Dangerous would have beaten Bad easily IF that little bitch kid and his pedo dad didn't sue him for the allegations. The allegations gave Michael a much worse image than when the vitiligo started to react violently.

Dangerous is a great album. But people started to hate Michael because of the allegations. People didn't buy his album anymore and didn't react enthusiastically to his new singles.

Come on Dangerous has great songs. Will You Be There, Who Is It, RTT and In The Closet. Bad managed to get 5 #1 singles. Dangerous only got 1... Songs from Dangerous was way ahead of its time. It was new and perfect... but the bad media attention ruined his life...

 

[Korlay]

Unfortunately, many people don't like change and I think Bad was a big shock to many as it was so different and from then on, they didn't wanna know. I've loved how he's evolved through the years! If he'd stayed the same and never pushed the boundaries, that would have been a total shame.

That's exactly what it is when you attend to a certain audience releasing R&B hits for over 20 yrs, most casual fans just won't accept a transition and jump ship right along with the media (when Michael was still with us, now everyone is a fan again)..

It's just sad thinking about everything, today especially.

 

[Antwort]

Great thread everyone.

The problem is complex... but as for the media's fixation with sales numbers...
That's also Michaels fault, because he as well was fixated with sales numbers.
The sales numbers, the biggest selling, most awards, record-breaking blah blah
were always a big part of his PR. There was too much fabricated hype PR.
So no wonder the media jumped on that once the sales numbers went down over the decades.

Spot on. As much as we would like, there are things out there for which not even the media can be blamed.

Otherwise... the media likes simple stories that every idiot can swallow easy... and the downwards spiral horror show story is nice and simple to tell and sell. Would be too complecated for example to mention that the HIStory album even generated No.1 singles in countries where he never had a No.1 single before. (Like Earth Song and TDCAU were his first No.1 singles in Germany ever). It sadly just doesn't fit in...

I tend to agree with that with a couple of caveats - NOT all media is like that (believe it or not, there's a lot more to them than just the average silly tabloid head) and not everyone is an idiot. Quite on the contrary, or so I hope. I still am dumb enough to believe in the common sense and decency of most mankind.

But then, I also remember this

No matter how much evidence you present to people, if they don't wanna know the truth, there's no human power that make them change their mind.

No wise man has the power to reason away, right? Or something like it anyhow......

I've never understood people's obsession with other people's personal lives either, famous or not.

That makes two of us. I still don't get why people feel the need to know what goes on in other people's bedrooms. Maybe their own bedrooms are not that exciting so it's easier to speculate about others??? I don't know, I'm just guessin'....

because they are childish, thriller is the easiest to accept album, after that Michael tried to challenge himself and the public, both in music and message, he tried to make us think!

Operative word being "TRIED". The true question is - did he succeed and, if so, in what way? Leaving aside the media circus made of plastic surgeries, false accusations and short lived civil unions what exactly did he make people think of - gold pants, PR stunts, moonwalks, record sells and what else??? Maybe a bit more than that; hopefully, a lot more.

That's exactly what it is when you attend to a certain audience releasing R&B hits for over 20 yrs, most casual fans just won't accept a transition and jump ship right along with the media (when Michael was still with us, now everyone is a fan again)..

Indeed, nowadays everyone is a "fan", with the few holdouts and exceptions here and there. Isn't it amazing how the "pariah, hasbeen, freak" of June 24th 2009 whose very name was met with benign indifference at best and sheer disgust at worst has now been reinstated as a "legend" and has become the highest grossing entertainer dead or alive??? The BRAND "Michael Jackson" has gained a lot the last half a decade. What happened to the artist and the man though???

It's just sad thinking about everything, today especially.

Absolutely. It's very, very sad to think about it all.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

IMHO I think Dangerous would have beaten Bad easily IF that little bitch kid and his pedo dad didn't sue him for the allegations. The allegations gave Michael a much worse image than when the vitiligo started to react violently.

Dangerous is a great album. But people started to hate Michael because of the allegations. People didn't buy his album anymore and didn't react enthusiastically to his new singles.

Come on Dangerous has great songs. Will You Be There, Who Is It, RTT and In The Closet. Bad managed to get 5 #1 singles. Dangerous only got 1... Songs from Dangerous was way ahead of its time. It was new and perfect... but the bad media attention ruined his life...

You do know that Dangerous sold more than Bad right?
Dangerous is def my nr 1 album of all time

 

[HIStoric]

You do know that Dangerous sold more than Bad right?
Dangerous is def my nr 1 album of all time

I think Bad's overtaken it again. With the announcement of Bad 25, they announced Bad had sold 45million records, not only making it the #5 best selling album of all time (last time I checked) but also beating Dangerous' 30-something million records sold.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

I actually liked Bad more than Thriller. *looks around in paranoia*

:hysterical: :cheeky: :fear: I did the same thing when I said Off The Wall is my favorite Mike album, PERIOD.

 

[HIStory]

Unfortunately, many people don't like change and I think Bad was a big shock to many as it was so different and from then on, they didn't wanna know. I've loved how he's evolved through the years! If he'd stayed the same and never pushed the boundaries, that would have been a total shame.

This.

Problem is that when you have a certain sound that blows up to be massively popular, people do not appreciate if you want to move away from that sound. People wanted him to recreate Thriller over and over again. Even critics. When in fact, critics should appreciate the fact he did not get stuck with a certain sound and a certain type of thematics but evolved.

I love the fact that each of his albums is different. You have artists who have the same sound through a whole career but Michael evolved. Each of his albums have a different sound, different thematics, different mood. I love that so much and I think it's very narrow-minded that most critics do not appreciate that. But I think that has a lot to do with other things rather than the music. The fact that even music critics were massively influenced by the tabloid narratives about him. That's how a lot of reviews ended up to be ad hominem attacks against his supposed personal life of personality rather than sticking to strictly to the music and what he tried to express with it artistically. That would have involved trying to understand his perspective, but most of the American critics were not even trying. They labelled him bizarre, weird, his music was now called "angry" - in a bad way. Whereas the same critics would applause their favourite rock bands for expressing their true, genuine feelings in their music - be it anger, disillusion or a drug induced trip or whatever. But MJ was not allowed to do anything else than feel-good music. I think deep down that has some kind of racist root to it as well. A black man should not be upset, angry, feel treated unfairly, criticize the world around us - he does not have that right. He should just shut up and make us dance. That's his place. Leave all the serious subjects and criticism of society to white rock bands - who will do that from their own perspective which is also more convenient for the establishment.

Of course his more serious albums, such as HIStory are less accessible, less radio-friendly than, say, Thriller or OTW. That in itself will make it unable to generate Thriller-like sales. That's natural. But at least critics should have evaluated those albums in a more fair way. Give it a chance at least. Try to understand his perspective, the things he went through. If you are dismissive of his whole experience, if you do not acknowledge the injustice of what happened to him, of course you will never be able to understand HIStory or BOTDF. But thing is those albums aren't just about MJ's specific personal experience to which other people cannot relate to. In fact, it's pretty much about all of us. Problem is, that if you are that tabloid consuming or greedy or superficial person yourself - or if you are that tabloid journalist yourself, for that matter - then of course you will not want to take a look into that mirror that albums like that hold up in front of you. You will rather try to dismiss the album and trash the mirror.

I believe Michael was one of the boldest, most rebellious artists out there.

 

[LetsRoque]

I agree with the tread starter but if we want to talk about the public dismissing Michael's music what about all of the pre-Off the Wall releases? Sometimes even a lot of fans tend to forget, I think, that he put out 4 albums before that Off the Wall breakthrough!

 

[speeddemon88]

I dont really understand the "people wanted something like thriller again" argument. Music evolves, there is 4 year difference between the Thriller album and Bad and Dangerous. You simply cant do the same thing all over or people will get tired esp after such a long time. Michael always wanted the newest technology and the sound of Bad is what music sounded like around that period, if he had the same sound as on Thriller it would sound outdated. What made him stay relevant on music scene for 5 decades is exactly because he was musically evolving and thats what pop is about, you have to keep up or you will be forgotten. For me this musical evolution is the most fascinating thing about him, he could reinvent himself with each new album. How can this kid who sang disco, soul & funk in 70ties suddenly be singing that rock infused track in 80s, rnb in 00's and sound exactly as cool and contemporary as before. Well thats what MJ made so special.
Now Michael had the best selling album of all times, how do you top that ? How do you top yourself? I mean that is such a pressure, that after all those years I suspect this is why it took him so long to finish Invincible, he was afraid of the public. Especially when the media is just waiting to tear apart everything you
do. Lets also not forget that generally sales has been decreasing from the 80's, so he could never top himself anyways but yeah I do agree that media did their part with their "great" press. I was just in shock when i saw what people were writing about him, openly calling him weird and all that, but I also think that he wanted the press speculate about his skin, it was pretty obvious it was a lot lighter so he could just say it already that he had vitiligo, instead he waited another 6 years till he publicly admitted he had a skin disorder in 1993.
Anyways Bad is one of the best selling albums of all times and Michael didnt top himself, but no one will ever do

 

[J5master]

The reasons have already been touched on here - the media, MJ's direction, image, people being idiots and not wanting to give MJ credit for anything . But looking back, I honestly think MJ's genius really rested in everything he did after Thriller. Dont get me wrong, I think Thriller is essentially THE perfect album, as far as radio hits go. It was just made for radio - every single song. And after that, he wanted to top himself - he wanted to go beyond Thriller, not just in musicality and quality, but in REACH. And that's what gets me. He refused to be pigeon-holed. Sometimes I reflect back on the conscious ways he decided to change his sound and image from era to era and just marvel at the ingenuity. No one else can do it like him. Usher and Justin...they can imitate his moves and sound, but the creativity - the theatrics that MJ had wanted to portray from album to album is to me what took him 100 steps beyond his predecessors or really...ANYONE. lol

You know, Thriller was Thriller. But when you look back on all the eras, there's a quintessential look and style and THEME and even EMOTION for each one. Iconic moments that MJ wanted to create - each extremely different from each other. I'm rambling a bit here, but this is to me why I appreciate post-thriller stuff more. Because how do you do it better when you've already been the best? You get creative. And that's what MJ did.

 

[HIStory]

I agree with the tread starter but if we want to talk about the public dismissing Michael's music what about all of the pre-Off the Wall releases? Sometimes even a lot of fans tend to forget, I think, that he put out 4 albums before that Off the Wall breakthrough!

Yes, that's a good point too. I find it a bit sad how even fans overlook especially albums like Destiny and Triumph where MJ already had major creative input. He wrote or co-wrote six of Triumph's nine track so creatively it's as much of a Michael Jackson album as any of his solo works. Same with Destiny where he and his brothers wrote eight of the nine tracks. Fans keep talking about how underrated Invincible is but I rarely hear them talk about Destiny and Triumph, which just shows that those are the really underrated albums - even within the fan base.

 

[analogue]

I think that Blood On The Dance Floor is pretty underrated. Lots of people dismiss it thinking it's just a remix album, but those first 5 songs are some of Michael's most brilliant work.

Think of it as an E.P and not a remix album

 

[LetsRoque]

Yes. No doubt that he really came into his own on Off The Wall, and that there is a big jump from "Forever, Michael" to "Off The Wall" but like how when you listen to the former that you can pin out those small signs of the direction he would take it in...

 

[Antwort]

Yes, that's a good point too. I find it a bit sad how even fans overlook especially albums like Destiny and Triumph where MJ already had major creative input. He wrote or co-wrote six of Triumph's nine track so creatively it's as much of a Michael Jackson album as any of his solo works. Same with Destiny where he and his brothers wrote eight of the nine tracks. Fans keep talking about how underrated Invincible is but I rarely hear them talk about Destiny and Triumph, which just shows that those are the really underrated albums - even within the fan base.

I do believe fans tend to overlook Michael's pre-Off the wall output as well as his collaboration with his brothers post-Thriller. Earlier tonight I was reminded of the brilliance of one his most underrated songs - BE NOT ALWAYS.

Probably this would belong better in the favorite lyrics thread, but I'll post it here anyhow considering this new "level of analysis", shall we say. Supposedly he wrote the lyrics in 1979. Not bad for a 21 y.o. kid, not bad at all. What I would love to know is when Marlon jumped in - in 79 or in 84 when the song was published? In any case, they both did an awesome job, that's for sure. At least to me, anyways...

To have nothing
To dream something
Then lose hoping
Is not life but lame

Don't know why, but these lyrics speak to me profoundly, so much more than so many others. Must be the eternal optimist, solar and exuberant creature in me that is attracted by this type of sombre songs and words...

 

[AlwaysThere]

Talking to a few of my friend's parents, people love the old Michael Jackson -- the calm, loving musician. Starting with Bad, he started to get very angry, very hard. And while that's fine for the hardcore fans, a lot of the casual fans didn't want to hear it.

 

[analogue]

Talking to a few of my friend's parents, people love the old Michael Jackson -- the calm, loving musician. Starting with Bad, he started to get very angry, very hard. And while that's fine for the hardcore fans, a lot of the casual fans didn't want to hear it.

I agree that a lot of the general public prefer to hear happy, harmless songs like Rock With You. You Are Not Alone is usually the song that get's praised the most on the HIStory album, because it was the harmless love song on the album.

 

[J5master]

Talking to a few of my friend's parents, people love the old Michael Jackson -- the calm, loving musician. Starting with Bad, he started to get very angry, very hard. And while that's fine for the hardcore fans, a lot of the casual fans didn't want to hear it.

Hmm I had the opposite experience. I do believe the themes of some songs had an effect - but throughout Bad and Dangerous at least, it wasn't so much so that it might have turned people off. Almost every casual fan I talk to often praise Bad and Dangerous (especially songs like TWYMMF, Smooth Criminal and Man In the Mirror and Remember the Time - even Who Is It), but say he got 'weird' after thriller, which is why they prefer the older stuff. It is before he started to 'sell out' (according to them). Its just no matter what, it always goes back to his personal life, or what they think of as his personal life. MJ turning white = him selling out. Its kinda ridiculous.

Because lets be honest, MJ was making fun, happy, loving songs post-Thriller (I think it was only HIStory that got really angry, understandably so, but then Invincible got considerably happier I thought). He had an edgier sound, but edgier doesn't equal angry or bitter. And honestly, i don't think he would have became such a ground breaking artist or as HUGE as he did without taking those risks and breaking away from the 'unassuming' smooth sound he used to have.

 

[speeddemon88]

Talking to a few of my friend's parents, people love the old Michael Jackson -- the calm, loving musician. Starting with Bad, he started to get very angry, very hard. And while that's fine for the hardcore fans, a lot of the casual fans didn't want to hear it.

U cant please everybody, Bad has couple of ballads as well. I like the Bad album tiny bit more than Thriller, Thriller had 5 strong tracks, Bad had 11 strong tracks with Leave me alone. Each one of them could be a single, the album is almost like a greatest hits collection to me. There is not 1 song I dont like and whats even better about it is that Michael wrote 9 of them, so its very personal album as well. I love this album to death.

 

[MjsLovelyOne88]

I agree with a lot of you here, I personally LOVE Bad, Dangerous, HIStory and of course Invincible (a very underrated album along with HIStory) better than Thriller, of course I enjoy it very much but ya'll prob know what I mean. I have to say though, that despite the fact the press/general public overlook and diminish Michael's post-Thriller material, I'm VERY glad that it's still the biggest selling album of all time. I couldn't believe my ears when they said Katy freaking Perry had equaled his 5 #1 hits off a single album record! The way today's musicians have it way easier than before when it comes to breaking records and such things, I'm completely glad that the album has (and prob will for many many years, hopefully forever) remained the BEST selling in history. I really hope that the general view on Michael's amazing catalog changes as the years go by and people start to rediscover what a GENIUS he was, that we'll never see another one quite like him... *excuse me while I go bawl my eyes out*

 

[speeddemon88]

Finally had the time to listen to the Invincible album. I only knew the Rock my world song from it and time stopped for me during the Break of down. Holy crap what a beautiful song, been listening to it the entire day on repeat. This album is totally different and really a step forward sonically.

 

[xosweetseducingsighsxo]

Let me just start by saying, I'm a yooooung Michael Jackson fan, and not only do I appreciate everything Pre-Off The Wall, but I appreciate everything after that too. Call me crazy but *falls out* Invincible and Dangerous take the cake as best to me. HIStory too, especially with the song This Time Around, Stranger In Moscow, etc. I never understood why people jumped the bandwagon and basically ignored all the albums after Thriller. Those were very priceless as well. Sometimes I just sit there like o_o who the heck could ignore these great songs?

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Don't get me wrong, it broke my heart to see how he was mistreated and vilified, and it continues unfortunately but I love how the angry Michael conveyed his disappointments and frustrations in his songs, that side of him made him a sharp lyricist. I was expecting an angrier and sadder album after that lynching mob in 2005. Don't get me wrong again, I'm happy with the success of Xscape and I've supported it but the Estate and Sony went pretty safe with the song choices, just two tracks have a meaningful message. I hope they give us releasable tracks he was working on after his vindication in the subsequent years.

 

[AngelMJ136]

If Michael Jackson had not acquired the rights to Beatles songs back in the 1980s, things would have been very different. Just saying.

edit:- Oh, and I love the 90s songs and Invincible. There are many songs from that era that are totally my taste. Thanks to the internet, people are finally getting exposed to MJ's post 90s works. If estate celebrates every album's anniversary with great promotion it can further help the public to discover MJ's 90s albums.