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I don't believe any doctor was on the scene at all

Soso Deaf said:
the dr hasn't denied he gave him the injection. furthermore, it was said by tmz PER THE FAMILY asserting this.
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How do you know the Dr. hasn't denied it? He hasn't spoken publicly. And why would we rely on TMZ? How would anyone in the family even know if the Dr. was the only person there? This MIGHT have happened, but it's really all just speculation right now.
 
Soso, where do you hear he ran for 24 hrs? If he spoke to authorities on thursday and spoke to them again on friday, how does 24 hrs on the lam come in?

About the 911 call, I don't know how many of have called them, but when you need them to come, you cannot be bothered with all of them questions, they just need to shut up and come.

and demerol to a heart patient, who in heaven's name said MJ was a heart patient??

Stop creating stories and trying to find the answers.lol.
 
Mikejoefan said:
Ok but if no doctor was at large then how do any body know that michael COLLASPED? Wouldn't the story be different. Like was sleeping and didn't wake??? Where is the collasping coming in at. I do think he was very MUCH AT LARGE and in charge.

Now good points others are making. why did mike need a cardio if he had a clean bill of health. Or could it have been because mike knew him that he wanted him to be his personal doctor for the shows and that this was just the docs specialization. I for one do think michael was in GREAT health. Until other wise proven.

Now michael as had a blood vessel burst back in the 1980s and it was jermaine (I think) who got him to the hospital. What era of the body was this? I forget off the top of my head.

Anyway if this doctor, whether he found michael or was there with michael trying to help him. WHYYYYY do cpr on the floor! Also 911 asked did anybody see what happen. staffer asks the doctor and he just mumbled something like we need help and so then the staffer started saying something like sir please we need help. The question NEVER got answered. Something smells really bad. Also why didn't the doc speak with the family. You don't need a lawyer to tell them what you last saw.
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That was his lung. One of his lungs collapsed. I think it was called pnuemothorax or something close to that. And now that you mention it, I remember in Moonwalk that Michael mentioned how sometimes he'd get pinches of pain in his chest sometimes and it used to scare him becuz of the issue with his lung. I wonder if when a person dies the lungs automatically collapse or something. If MJ had another lung episode would this have escaped the coroner? :unsure:
 
wendy2004 said:
In an interview on CNN earlier today, there was someone on who said the doctor didn't leave the scene and that he went with paramedics to the hospital and wouldn't stop trying to revive Michael til they got to the hospital. I was shocked to hear that cuz previous reports made it seem like he washed his hands of MJ once paramedics showed up and then he disappeared. So there's all kind of stories floating around. It's hard to know who and what to believe. Everyone is covering their ass, no doubt.

I just don't like the idea that Michael was in a house where a doctor was living with him and he STILL wasn't able to get the medical help he needed on the spot.
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Yes and if the doctor was living with him, its mighty funny that if the doctor wasn't present at the time (and it just doesn't look like it to me) the timing is too ironic. And if the doctor was there it doesn't add up. When the 911 operator was clarifying whether the doctor was administering CPR it seemed to me the caller wasn't readily even sure. Almost like he was in the next room or something. As I recall, he hesitated like he had to look somewhere and check first before he answered. I wish we had the tape to listen to.

I know ppl die in hospitals all the time with a full medical team around, but still...it just seems like what's the point in having a doctor in the house and he still can't save you. WHY was he giving MJ CPR on a bed? How long had he been doing that inefficiently before 911 was called?
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ALL dat, all of it.

Maybe if he had put MJ on the floor sooner he would've been able to revive him faster. Time was precious.
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Without a doubt. As you said, time is of the essence. Even a foot doctor would have known that.

So many questions and not enuf answers. It's just like when Princess Diana died and paramedics took forever to get her to a hospital. You're always left to wonder "what if...". I hate it.
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its what makes it so sad and frustrating

Trish said:
I agree with you 100%.

If he gave Michael a shot of Demerol then he should get his licensed stripped and jailed for negligence. A cardiologist is not supposed to give a heart patient Demerol/Morphine/Methadone because it slows down/disrupts the hearts natural beating pattern. If Michael was having chest pains he was supposed to give him nitroglycerin - period. Why would a cardiologist give Michael Jackson Demerol?
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Jesus Lord, and WHY did Michael have a cardiologist living with him in the first place.

AND something else is bugging me.

AEG claimed that Michael Jackson was in tip top shape and passed a 4 hour physical. Why in the hell would they continue the shows if Michael was under the care of a cardiologist? Why would they put this doctor on their payroll?
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It implies to me that AEG was concerned from the get-go.

Why didn't they inquire about Michael health especially with a heart doctor on board?
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who are ya meaning? 'they'

Something does not sit right.....
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Definitely.
 
mello1 said:
He runs thru a full show, everything there said he looked and sounded fine and was upbeat and happy?
Okay... sooo... what the hell happened here?
I am trying to hold back my remarks because I want to know why the man died and I want to know the facts -- whatever they may be, whether I will like it or not.
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I exactly feel the same way, i want to know the truth, nothing but the truth
what went wrong? i think the Jackson family is eager to know that, too
we fans should celebrate Michael's July show, not mourn his death
it's so sad, so sad T T
 
wendy2004 said:
Good question. I thought about that, too. But the first autopsy showed that MJ's heart was fine...no blockages or anything unusual. Just as the AEG physical turned up, MJ's body was in top shape. So my guess is perhaps the guy's specialty was cardiology but that didn't mean he was treating MJ for heart related issues. He was simply a doctor who could write prescriptions and deal with general health issues just as well as a general practioner would. In his case, however, his specialty was the dealing with the heart.

What I'm most interested in are these chest pains Liza Minelli claims MJ was complaining of. Was this before or after he was given something by the doctor?
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Those chest pains have me wondering if that is perhaps why a cardiologist was around MJ to begin with. If you're right about the doctor just happens to be a cardiologist, its still a hella coincidence that MJ was taking heart sensitive drugs with this 24 hour doctor in residence there.
 
Trish said:
I agree with you 100%.

If he gave Michael a shot of Demerol then he should get his licensed stripped and jailed for negligence. A cardiologist is not supposed to give a heart patient Demerol/Morphine/Methadone because it slows down/disrupts the hearts natural beating pattern. If Michael was having chest pains he was supposed to give him nitroglycerin - period. Why would a cardiologist give Michael Jackson Demerol?

AND something else is bugging me.

AEG claimed that Michael Jackson was in tip top shape and passed a 4 hour physical. Why in the hell would they continue the shows if Michael was under the care of a cardiologist? Why would they put this doctor on their payroll? Why didn't they inquire about Michael health especially with a heart doctor on board?

Something does not sit right.....
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That's exactly what I was thinking, mike had a history of heart and chest problems in the past but the problem didn't become severe until his body went through multiple changes due to old age and stress(apparently). Your heart can only take so much and with Michael having the whole world on his shoulder, people suing him from left and right, slandering his name, the charges etc... you can only imagine the pain he was dealing with emotionally, physically and mentally. Mike didn't like his health issues to be discussed publicly, he wanted to remain strong for his family, friends and fans and he held up pretty well, yet realistically you knew something wasn't right with him constantly making those doctor visits. If there was a fragile/serious problem health wise with mike, why would his doctor's suggest him to perform? I wouldn't have gave him the ok on that, although it would have been nice to see him on that stage doing what he loved, if his health was at risk, that concert would have to be put on hold or not happen at all.
 
wendy2004 said:
That was his lung. One of his lungs collapsed. I think it was called pnuemothorax or something close to that. And now that you mention it, I remember in Moonwalk that Michael mentioned how sometimes he'd get pinches of pain in his chest sometimes and it used to scare him becuz of the issue with his lung. I wonder if when a person dies the lungs automatically collapse or something. If MJ had another lung episode would this have escaped the coroner? :unsure:
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his lung oh I thought i was a vessel. Ok well I don't think the coroner woulda missed that one.
 
eunice said:
I exactly feel the same way, i want to know the truth, nothing but the truth
what went wrong? i think the Jackson family is eager to know that, too
we fans should celebrate Michael's July show, not mourn his death
it's so sad, so sad T T
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I agree with you and mello on that. MY thing is, I don't want no "o-kee-doke". The Jacksons no doubt want the truth too, but I don't want them to become so worn by this shhht that they get satisfactory 'sounding' answers. I want to know what happened and I want everybody's ass on a platter who was around MJ when he was laying in a bed in cardiac distress with a cardiologist on the scene who didn't even know to put the patient on the floor. I'm sorry. I'M SO MAD lol. I know the Jacksons are gonna be getting all the important questions answered of what happened. I don't think mama is gonna leave any stone unturned. I really don't even think she'll be able to rest until some serious questions are answered.
 
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BE.86 said:
That's exactly what I was thinking, mike had a history of heart and chest problems in the past but the problem didn't become severe until his body went through multiple changes due to old age and stress(apparently). Your heart can only take so much and with Michael having the whole world on his shoulder, people suing him from left and right, slandering his name, the charges etc... you can only imagine the pain he was dealing with emotionally, physically and mentally. Mike didn't like his health issues to be discussed publicly, he wanted to remain strong for his family, friends and fans and he held up pretty well, yet realistically you knew something wasn't right with him constantly making those doctor visits. If there was a fragile/serious problem health wise with mike, why would his doctor's suggest him to perform? I wouldn't have gave him the ok on that, although it would have been nice to see him on that stage doing what he loved, if his health was at risk, that concert would have to be put on hold or not happen at all.
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The bolded part is what makes me so sad. Michael literally gave his life to making people happy. Since it was what he felt called for, it gives me peace to know he left here doing what he loved. Its just so bitter-sweet tho.
 
state the lapd said in there statement that the doctor said that HE WAS THERE when michael collapsed. i all ways felt this. So why didn't he revive michael in the 4-5 minute slot time? why cpr on the bed? Why What did he really do to mike?
 
^ if he was there I'm now beginning to wonder if he got his license from a bubble gum machine. That is CRAZY. thx MJF. *sigh*
 
BE.86 said:
That's exactly what I was thinking, mike had a history of heart and chest problems in the past but the problem didn't become severe until his body went through multiple changes due to old age and stress(apparently). Your heart can only take so much and with Michael having the whole world on his shoulder, people suing him from left and right, slandering his name, the charges etc... you can only imagine the pain he was dealing with emotionally, physically and mentally. Mike didn't like his health issues to be discussed publicly, he wanted to remain strong for his family, friends and fans and he held up pretty well, yet realistically you knew something wasn't right with him constantly making those doctor visits. If there was a fragile/serious problem health wise with mike, why would his doctor's suggest him to perform? I wouldn't have gave him the ok on that, although it would have been nice to see him on that stage doing what he loved, if his health was at risk, that concert would have to be put on hold or not happen at all.
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and to ok him 50 shows at that? I alway felt that was way to much way too much. they shoulda did maybe 10 in a month and move to another city. AEG didn't plan nothing right for TII. I alway feel like they rush and moved things to fast. ugh! however I think michael was happy and gear up and ready to go.
 
Is it really true that Marlon said those things about him collapsing and stuff? It was about the first thing that was heard and then the story changed. How did he know so quick anyway?
And it's normal that the person calling 911 was unsure about stuff, when you see someone in that state ( especially someone you know well) you panic... You can't think straight... You see stuff like that on Tv all the time but in real life it's different.

Also, they were saying that nobody wanted to sign the death certificate. i can understand why Murray wouldn't but what about the docs at the hospital? It would be logical they would since they called it.
 
Everyone here discounting TMZ needs to remember that they have been spot on so far with regards to MJ over the past couple of days... from calling his death HOURS before CNN etc... to INSIDE pictures of him and his children.
 
STATEofSHOCK said:
^ Angel help me out. WHY would Murray not?
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Well he may have been there as his physician but legally i think he could be held liable ( even more so) since it happened in private, with no witnesses and not in a hospital setting.
He can't call it and maybe he didn't want to out of fear, maybe he was genuinely shocked and wouldn't let go, hence the reports that he went to the hospital and insisted they try for an hour. The paramedics could have called it, i think they have that power but he insisted...
Who knows... hopefully we'll find out more when the police releases any statements.:no:
 
Angel said:
Is it really true that Marlon said those things about him collapsing and stuff? It was about the first thing that was heard and then the story changed. How did he know so quick anyway?
And it's normal that the person calling 911 was unsure about stuff, when you see someone in that state ( especially someone you know well) you panic... You can't think straight... You see stuff like that on Tv all the time but in real life it's different.

Also, they were saying that nobody wanted to sign the death certificate. i can understand why Murray wouldn't but what about the docs at the hospital? It would be logical they would since they called it.
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I two wonder how marlon knew so much when the last time he spoke to michael was in may. He's source was frank...so franks source must of been someone at the house or the doctor. The doctor said he was there when michael collasped so everything else is a spin off of what he said to frank and who ever else he talked to. My thing is he went to the hospital with ems so why didn't he walk up to katherine and explain what happen to her. Then why did the police have find him? shouldn't he have stayed at the hospital. how did he leave the hospital. He didn't have a car?
 
Mikejoefan said:
I two wonder how marlon knew so much when the last time he spoke to michael was in may. He's source was frank...so franks source must of been someone at the house or the doctor. The doctor said he was there when michael collasped so everything else is a spin off of what he said to frank and who ever else he talked to. My thing is he went to the hospital with ems so why didn't he walk up to katherine and explain what happen to her. Then why did the police have find him? shouldn't he have stayed at the hospital. how did he leave the hospital. He didn't have a car?
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That's what i was wondering too, he just took off after they took him there? And there are taxis available, he didn't really need his car...
Maybe he was scared?
 
This is so stupid and I'm so angry. If someone complains of chest pains the first thing you do is call 911 or go to the hospital, hello, common sense. I have heart problems, the paramedics have been at my apt about 5 times since December 08, everybody on the team knows my name now. Heart problems (chest pains, shortness of breath, etc) is something you don't play with, it's some serious SH@T.

Why didn't Michael's manager call 911 or take him to the hospital when he started complaining of chest pains. Why?
 
If he had complained he should have been put in a car and taken to hospital, I gather it was very close and that would have been faster.

We have to slow down I think, the fact is we just don't know what happened yet and we won't know for a very long time. Weeks for the tox results then an inquest, then maybe another investigation. The fact is if that doctor was present and did not give him medication that killed him it had to be a physical problem that would have shown up on the autopsy surely.
 
michaelsson said:
that bitch was there,he was on the 911 tape
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Who was? Who are you referring to? Because I listened to the 911 tape the first day (I think what I heard was not the full tape) and the one thing that struck me afterwards is that the person on the phone was referring to the doctor. So there were at least two people there. It was not the doctor who called unless he referred to himself in the third person. The person who called had an accent which I who call Mexican and the doctor was from Texas, but the person calling referred to the doctor as if it was someone other than themself.

I really hate having to have these kinds of questions taking up space in our minds when we should just be able to grieve. Even in death we are not allowed to just love him without all the crap. Where is peace? But if there was foul play people owe it to Michael to not let it go undetected. The truth should be heard. I think Quincy's words were right about Michael being a victum and then he added something to the effect of whatever that ends up meaning. A very interesting choice of words.
 
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Soso Deaf said:
he was in the background. he wasn't talking, he was performing cpr on mj
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Do we know who was on the phone though? And people here never commented on a second person... acted like there was only one, like they overlooked the second. That's why I mentioned that part.
 
STATEofSHOCK said:
I'm sorry, I realize the investigation will reveal everything, I just have been unable to let it go for right now. I say it because I don't believe a doctor in this world, least of all a cardiologist would:

- administer CPR on a bed

- need a 911 OPERATOR to tell him the first thing to do

- if the 911 operator did tell the doctor the first thing to do it would clearly be something that was already done

- allow someone to call 911 without coaching them what to tell the EMTs so they will be fully prepared.

- leave the scene of a patient in distress

- make themselves unavailable to sign a death certificate

These are just some things that are dawning on me. It could explain why the doctor was "at large" for so long. Because he was never there in the first place. Didn't know or believe MJ had died b/c he had left MJ healthy as an ox. Sorry, I'm the kind of person things have to make some kinda sense to my mind before I can peacefully rest into other thoughts ..

I realize (before anyone reminds me) that none of this will bring MJ back, its just the bafflement is driving me kinda nutz ... *sigh*

sorry if i shouldn't be posting this and thank you that i got this out



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I agree with you there are too many things that do not make sense. I do not believe this was an accident nor a "heart-attacK". Jackson was in great shape. The media is hitting us 24/7 with "drug abuse", "addictions", "debts" and anything they can make stick. This the same media who reported every lie and viciously attacked MJ for the last 16 years!

Also about Dr Conrrad Murray why did he disappear for 2 days?
Why hire lawyers before re-appearing?
Why will the cause of death take 6-8 weeks before the LA Medical examiners "discover" what really killed Jackson?




There is something very wrong here.

Timing is everything (the tours being successful was too much a threat for Jackson enemies)

However mark my words the "official" story will be exactly what the media is feeding the world.
The truth will not come from this "investigation" there is too much deliberate destraction being created.
 
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