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I don't believe any doctor was on the scene at all

SoS

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I'm sorry, I realize the investigation will reveal everything, I just have been unable to let it go for right now. I say it because I don't believe a doctor in this world, least of all a cardiologist would:

- administer CPR on a bed

- need a 911 OPERATOR to tell him the first thing to do

- if the 911 operator did tell the doctor the first thing to do it would clearly be something that was already done

- allow someone to call 911 without coaching them what to tell the EMTs so they will be fully prepared.

- leave the scene of a patient in distress

- make themselves unavailable to sign a death certificate

These are just some things that are dawning on me. It could explain why the doctor was "at large" for so long. Because he was never there in the first place. Didn't know or believe MJ had died b/c he had left MJ healthy as an ox. Sorry, I'm the kind of person things have to make some kinda sense to my mind before I can peacefully rest into other thoughts ..

I realize (before anyone reminds me) that none of this will bring MJ back, its just the bafflement is driving me kinda nutz ... *sigh*

sorry if i shouldn't be posting this and thank you that i got this out



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Yes, MJ could have been found that way; we have heard that MJ works at night and sleeps late in the morning. It is possible the dr. called 911 just for the ambulance.

He didn't leave the scene; he was there when the EMT came.
 
STATEofSHOCK said:
I'm sorry, I realize the investigation will reveal everything, I just have been unable to let it go for right now. I say it because I don't believe a doctor in this world, least of all a cardiologist would:

- administer CPR on a bed

- need a 911 OPERATOR to tell him the first thing to do

- if the 911 operator did tell the doctor the first thing to do it would clearly be something that was already done

- allow someone to call 911 without coaching them what to tell the EMTs so they will be fully prepared.

- leave the scene of a patient in distress

- make themselves unavailable to sign a death certificate

These are just some things that are dawning on me. It could explain why the doctor was "at large" for so long. Because he was never there in the first place. Didn't know or believe MJ had died b/c he had left MJ healthy as an ox. Sorry, I'm the kind of person things have to make some kinda sense to my mind before I can peacefully rest into other thoughts ..

I realize (before anyone reminds me) that none of this will bring MJ back, its just the bafflement is driving me kinda nutz ... *sigh*

sorry if i shouldn't be posting this and thank you that i got this out



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I agree with you 100%.

If he gave Michael a shot of Demerol then he should get his licensed stripped and jailed for negligence. A cardiologist is not supposed to give a heart patient Demerol/Morphine/Methadone because it slows down/disrupts the hearts natural beating pattern. If Michael was having chest pains he was supposed to give him nitroglycerin - period. Why would a cardiologist give Michael Jackson Demerol?

AND something else is bugging me.

AEG claimed that Michael Jackson was in tip top shape and passed a 4 hour physical. Why in the hell would they continue the shows if Michael was under the care of a cardiologist? Why would they put this doctor on their payroll? Why didn't they inquire about Michael health especially with a heart doctor on board?

Something does not sit right.....
 
In an interview on CNN earlier today, there was someone on who said the doctor didn't leave the scene and that he went with paramedics to the hospital and wouldn't stop trying to revive Michael til they got to the hospital. I was shocked to hear that cuz previous reports made it seem like he washed his hands of MJ once paramedics showed up and then he disappeared. So there's all kind of stories floating around. It's hard to know who and what to believe. Everyone is covering their ass, no doubt.

I just don't like the idea that Michael was in a house where a doctor was living with him and he STILL wasn't able to get the medical help he needed on the spot. I know ppl die in hospitals all the time with a full medical team around, but still...it just seems like what's the point in having a doctor in the house and he still can't save you. WHY was he giving MJ CPR on a bed? How long had he been doing that inefficiently before 911 was called? Maybe if he had put MJ on the floor sooner he would've been able to revive him faster. Time was precious.

So many questions and not enuf answers. It's just like when Princess Diana died and paramedics took forever to get her to a hospital. You're always left to wonder "what if...". I hate it.
 
two possiblities

1.the doctor was involved in some funny business and belongs in prison for the rest of his life.

2. He was close to MJ, as MJ had said he was, and when he found MJ, he had been dead already for a while and was simply in panic mode refusing to let go, then he had to get out of there because he was too hysterical and blaming himself to try and talk to anybody, let alone investigators.

I can't believe we are actually talking about MJ being dead.
 
what's true is that he refused to allow emts to call it at the house. he told them to take him to the hospital. that's where it gets fuzzy. cuz how can he just squirm out of the hospital w/o being seen?

he was gone for 24 hrs and left his car at the mansion. something ain't right.

y would aeg have someone on the payroll if mj was ok?
 
Trish said:
I agree with you 100%.

If he gave Michael a shot of Demerol then he should get his licensed stripped and jailed for negligence. A cardiologist is not supposed to give a heart patient Demerol/Morphine/Methadone because it slows down/disrupts the hearts natural beating pattern. If Michael was having chest pains he was supposed to give him nitroglycerin - period. Why would a cardiologist give Michael Jackson Demerol?

AND something else is bugging me.

AEG claimed that Michael Jackson was in tip top shape and passed a 4 hour physical. Why in the hell would they continue the shows if Michael was under the care of a cardiologist? Why would they put this doctor on their payroll? Why didn't they inquire about Michael health especially with a heart doctor on board?

Something does not sit right.....
Click to expand...

Good question. I thought about that, too. But the first autopsy showed that MJ's heart was fine...no blockages or anything unusual. Just as the AEG physical turned up, MJ's body was in top shape. So my guess is perhaps the guy's specialty was cardiology but that didn't mean he was treating MJ for heart related issues. He was simply a doctor who could write prescriptions and deal with general health issues just as well as a general practioner would. In his case, however, his specialty was the dealing with the heart.

What I'm most interested in are these chest pains Liza Minelli claims MJ was complaining of. Was this before or after he was given something by the doctor?
 
Again with the assumptions. I'm sure an experienced cardiologist like Dr. Murray knew exactly what he was doing. IF MJ was having chest pains, nitro would have been given if it were there. Please stop making stuff up. Please. We are just hearing bits and pieces and are taking the negatives and assuming the worse.

There have been several quotes by the authorities re Dr. Murray's availiabity etc I think we just tend to forget them.
 
What I am interested about is where Liza got her info?lol

Who was the person that made the 911 call?

There are so many different reports going on out there but it seems to be mostly rumors.

I do remember reading that Dr. Murray was MJ's doctor for many years (perhaps not his cardiologist but his primary care physician), and MJ wanted to take him on the tour with him.
 
Trish said:
I agree with you 100%.

If he gave Michael a shot of Demerol then he should get his licensed stripped and jailed for negligence. A cardiologist is not supposed to give a heart patient Demerol/Morphine/Methadone because it slows down/disrupts the hearts natural beating pattern. If Michael was having chest pains he was supposed to give him nitroglycerin - period. Why would a cardiologist give Michael Jackson Demerol?

AND something else is bugging me.

AEG claimed that Michael Jackson was in tip top shape and passed a 4 hour physical. Why in the hell would they continue the shows if Michael was under the care of a cardiologist? Why would they put this doctor on their payroll? Why didn't they inquire about Michael health especially with a heart doctor on board?

Something does not sit right.....
Click to expand...

I would like to raise my hand on this and say I agree. Now that I'm back into my inquiring mind mode from crying at every tribune everyone one has made... the 'Dr. is a cardiologist' is so way wrong to me.

The first thing that popped in my mind even in all of my grief was why da hell did MJ even need that kind of a doctor? If he was having heart issues, then why da hell was he 'medically cleared' to do these shows?

He leaves the Staple center at 12:30 - 1:00am and some 12 hours later he's gone from this earth (sry, I can't bring myself to use the 'd' word)???

He runs thru a full show, everything there said he looked and sounded fine and was upbeat and happy?

Okay... sooo... what the hell happened here?

I am trying to hold back my remarks because I want to know why the man died and I want to know the facts -- whatever they may be, whether I will like it or not.

But I have some questions.... it's not necessarily adding all up to me...

Oh and Randy Phillips is now claiming that it was MJ who insisted on putting the 'Dr.' on the payroll.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
 
wendy2004 said:
What I'm most interested in are these chest pains Liza Minelli claims MJ was complaining of. Was this before or after he was given something by the doctor?
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Before. Frank said Michael was sick and complaining of chest pains that night. That was according to Marlon Jackson's interview with Essence.com.
 
What really bugged me about the 911 call was that when the EMTs asked if the doctor knew what happened, they didnt really get an answere.

Also shouldn't the doctor quickly get someone to call an ambulance as the first step, then commence CPR?
If Michael had a personal cardiologist with him, would he have also had a defibrillator there in case of an emergency? There was no mention of that in the 911 call..
 
I agree entirely with the points made by Trish, specially with AEG basically LYING about Michael being in top shape yet hiring a living in cardiologist for him, IMO in order to secure insurance for the shows.

Randy Phyllips has a lot to answear for.
 
LisaB said:
What I am interested about is where Liza got her info?lol

Who was the person that made the 911 call?

There are so many different reports going on out there but it seems to be mostly rumors.

I do remember reading that Dr. Murray was MJ's doctor for many years (perhaps not his cardiologist but his primary care physician), and MJ wanted to take him on the tour with him.
Click to expand...


Liza said she got her info from a lawyer. She didn't name the lawyer tho.

And you're right about the assumptions but you have to wonder...how would nitro have reacted with some other medication already in MJ's system if it was given to him? Would it have made things better or worse? This is what I keep saying about drug interaction. Sometimes people are given things that are supposed to help them but when taken in conjunction with other things, the reaction can be fatal. There's some medications you can't take with simple grapefruit juice becuz the combination will kill you.

And you have to admit that giving CPR on the floor would have been much better for MJ than attempting it on the firmest of beds.

We just all need to wait for the tox reports really. I know it's hard cuz the final results won't be in for 4-6 weeks and that's a lot of time for all sort of theories and speculations to come up. And this is so distressing. :(
 
um y is a cardiologist injecting a patient w/ demerol? especially when it ca cause shortness of breath and slower breathing?

i wanna c who's name is on the rx's they found in the house.


y would a heart doctor prescribe an opiate for his patient? when soeone can tell me that, i'll look at conrad as a real dr.


and nitro? for chest pains that obviously have proved to been from a soon to be cardiac arrest...how about narcan? something to reverse the effects of the opiate.
 
So many unanswered questions. I hope we will get some truthful answers...

I'm full of anger. What happened doesn't make any sense.
 
I would like to add that specialists like that usually have their own practice. Those kinds of Doctors can make a lot of money. There is a lot of information yet to be learned about this man. It is possible that there is nothing sinster at all -- the guy for whatever reasons isn't in a practice anymore and somehow got involved with celebrity patients.

Something occurred and the doctor was trying to revive him. Although a person with his specialty would know the proper revival procedures. Who knows. Maybe we will never know.
 
mello1 said:
I would like to add that specialists like that usually have their own practice. Those kinds of Doctors can make a lot of money. There is a lot of information yet to be learned about this man. It is possible that there is nothing sinster at all -- the guy for whatever reasons isn't in a practice anymore and somehow got involved with celebrity patients.

Something occurred and the doctor was trying to revive him. Although a person with his specialty would know the proper revival procedures. Who knows. Maybe we will never know.
Click to expand...


If I'm not mistaken he did have a practice and had other patients. He even sent notices to his patients some days or a week ago telling them he'd no longer be their doctor becuz he had to be away. He didn't say it was becuz he was going on tour with MJ but that has been the assumption since he was recently put on AEG's payroll. There was a thread or post around here somewhere with the exact memo/message sent to his patients.
 
Trish said:
Before. Frank said Michael was sick and complaining of chest pains that night. That was according to Marlon Jackson's interview with Essence.com.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. I read that too. That made me initially ask if MJ was complaining of chest pains earlier, then wouldn't a cardiologist have him go to the hospital? I would like to think that my cardio dr. would if I told him something like that.

Oh lawd. Here we go again...
 
Where exactly did this demerol thing come from anyway? One website, TMZ, made a claim he was injected with demerol and everyone ran with it. I'm not really sure how this coincides with the Dr. being the only one there, unless the Dr. told one of the paramedics about it and then he or she leaked it to the media.

So, again, what is the source of this demerol story?

I'll tell you one thing, though. If someone complains of chest pains you take them to the hospital.
 
WHES said:
Where exactly did this demerol thing come from anyway? One website, TMZ, made a claim he was injected with demerol and everyone ran with it. I'm not really sure how this coincides with the Dr. being the only one there, unless the Dr. told one of the paramedics about it and then he or she leaked it to the media.

So, again, what is the source of this demerol story?

I'll tell you one thing, though. If someone complains of chest pains you take them to the hospital.
Click to expand...


This is true...which is why I'm trying not to use the whole demerol thing in my theories. We don't know fact from fiction at this point. And how could someone document demerol was given at 11:30AM and not show what else was given at other times beforehand. Where did this info come from? Did someone say it? Was it on some kind of medical log kept in MJ's home?
 
STATEofSHOCK said:
I'm sorry, I realize the investigation will reveal everything, I just have been unable to let it go for right now. I say it because I don't believe a doctor in this world, least of all a cardiologist would:

- administer CPR on a bed

- need a 911 OPERATOR to tell him the first thing to do

- if the 911 operator did tell the doctor the first thing to do it would clearly be something that was already done

- allow someone to call 911 without coaching them what to tell the EMTs so they will be fully prepared.

- leave the scene of a patient in distress

- make themselves unavailable to sign a death certificate

These are just some things that are dawning on me. It could explain why the doctor was "at large" for so long. Because he was never there in the first place. Didn't know or believe MJ had died b/c he had left MJ healthy as an ox. Sorry, I'm the kind of person things have to make some kinda sense to my mind before I can peacefully rest into other thoughts ..

I realize (before anyone reminds me) that none of this will bring MJ back, its just the bafflement is driving me kinda nutz ... *sigh*

sorry if i shouldn't be posting this and thank you that i got this out



-
Click to expand...
Ok but if no doctor was at large then how do any body know that michael COLLASPED? Wouldn't the story be different. Like was sleeping and didn't wake??? Where is the collasping coming in at. I do think he was very MUCH AT LARGE and in charge.

Now good points others are making. why did mike need a cardio if he had a clean bill of health. Or could it have been because mike knew him that he wanted him to be his personal doctor for the shows and that this was just the docs specialization. I for one do think michael was in GREAT health. Until other wise proven.

Now michael as had a blood vessel burst back in the 1980s and it was jermaine (I think) who got him to the hospital. What era of the body was this? I forget off the top of my head.

Anyway if this doctor, whether he found michael or was there with michael trying to help him. WHYYYYY do cpr on the floor! Also 911 asked did anybody see what happen. staffer asks the doctor and he just mumbled something like we need help and so then the staffer started saying something like sir please we need help. The question NEVER got answered. Something smells really bad. Also why didn't the doc speak with the family. You don't need a lawyer to tell them what you last saw.
 
maybe the demerol is coming from the fact that michael made a song about it and since the media was feigning to say pres. meds they just ran with demerol injections. Idk!

edit ---- oh you posted before me. I did know he admitted to dem. So now why give dem. like yall said when it would slow down michael's heart. Or could it have been that this doc was stupidly giving michael both to help with each pain or need and that's what through michael heart out of whack??? Is that possible?
 
Thank You WHES!!!! I have seen folks running with the demerol story that TMZ posted and taken it to new levels. THAT is the reason why everyone's so confused. I don't know why we are doing this to ourselves. The story itself doesn't make much sense. Unless the Dr. told the family in that case we can cut the rumor that the Dr. never spoke to the family. We are becoming like the Enquirer in here :(
 
wendy2004 said:
This is true...which is why I'm trying not to use the whole demerol thing in my theories. We don't know fact from fiction at this point. And how could someone document demerol was given at 11:30AM and not show what else was given at other times beforehand. Where did this info come from? Did someone say it? Was it on some kind of medical log kept in MJ's home?
Click to expand...

You are right. The only source for that information is TMZ and Harvey Levin ani't exactly a pal of MJ's. Never have been. Only the toxicology report will confirm what was in his system.

That's why I haven't watched the news. I've read enough on some of the fan boards site to tell that they are angling a drug story here...
 
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