Latest on MJJC

I am having some conflicting feelings...

LindaC781

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
3,199
Points
0
Location
Boston, MA USA
On one hand, I am so sad that MJ is gone. Every day it seems unreal. But I know that MJ loved us, and wouldn't want us to be unhappy....it just seems that this isn't really happening...

On the other hand, I am so angry!! I am angry at Michael if it's proven that he had drugs in his system. Part of me understands...I often wondered how he handled the 2 court cases the way he did...but why drugs? Especially painkillers. And asking for some powerful sedative like that? I am especially angry at all of those who enabled this to keep going on! SO WHAT you weren't in the inner circle? I would have wished that those in the "inner circle" also had the integrity to stand by others like Deepak who refused to enable him!!

And what about those in the INNER CIRCLE? Did it make you feel special that you were helping this man go down the toilet??
 
I agree. It sucks any way you look at it. I know many people here have their own theories, and that's fine. My belief is that when the dust settles, it will be revealed MJ had a problem with drugs and people around him enabled his behavior. I don't care how tough he was, it could not have been easy being Michael Jackson and he used what he thought was necessary to deal with his sleep issues, stress, pain or whatever ailments he may have had. And people who wanted to to get close to him allowed the behavior. Again, I'm not stating this as fact, but that is how it looks to me.

It just sucks.
 
^ I completely agree with you 100 percent. You took the words right out of my mouth. Addiction is a very power mind control - I know I have it. He possibly was addicted, and if we was, he was in a lot of mental pain.
 
I think grief causes a magnitude of feelings and emotions. I myself feel the 'why? why? why?' feeling very strongly, as well as deep, deep loss. It's very hard.

If Michael was on drugs for pain and for sleep then I just feel bad for him that he could only get relief this way. I think that the disgusting accusations by those evil families played a big part in his pain. I wish he could ahve had the life that he wanted - just simple, bringing joy through singing and dancing, and loving his family and children everywhere. I feel the world made out that he was a monster because they could not comprehend his goodness. It's sickening truely.

I try to remember that it is OUR loss not his but nothing makes me feel any better.
 
Linda, I remember an MSG thread and you were talking about David Gest's claims being true and some members here were against it. I specificaly remember u saying the words: "ITS CALLED INTERVENTION." Your words continue to haunt me, I wanted to PM you about it.
 
BONGANI said:
Linda, I remember an MSG thread and you were talking about David Gest's claims being true and some members here were against it. I specificaly remember u saying the words: "ITS CALLED INTERVENTION." Your words continue to haunt me, I wanted to PM you about it.
Click to expand...

BONGANI, I saw this. I couldn't help but notice how drugged up he was. Yeah, some members calling me out about it - but it was a direct observation by me. And I have had enough experience with drug addiction with my various jobs in the past to really notice it. Believe me, I can pick that stuff up like nobody's business.

I wish they intervened back then. I wish someone had the balls enough to stand up to Mike back then. I wish that his entourage didn't follow like lemmings. I wish that not only ONE person stood up, but EVERYONE did. When you follow others like lemmings, you are only enabling. Really. So what if everyone was ignoring this? Don't they have a conscience??

And for those who still want to call me out about talking like this. You are acting like the lemmings that flocked and sucked the life out of Michael. You're in a state of denial. That's about it. I can only hope that the next superstar who stands the chance of dying this way will have stopped it before it got too late.
 
I think mike felt he had no other way to deal with his pain, being it physical and emotional pain. And i think no matter how many ppl tried to tell him to back away from the drugs- he just properly didnt trust their motives. He had so many ppl using him and trying to manipulate him ..i guess he just felt so confused :(
 
I have noticed several times in the past when MJ was not right. Just not right. Like where he is giving testimony or whatever and he does some of The Girl Is Mine... he is clearly not himself. Compare that to the videos on MTV.com right now, the interview from 1999 and how absolute clear and alert he is, the difference is night and day. It's ridiculous.
 
I will never get angry at Michael or blame Michael or condemn Michael. People who say "oh, he could do what he want, no one stood up to him and stopped him, he lived in denial of reality" (like they've said a lot on tv), it's just painful. However irrational some people may view this, I really don't give a damn. It makes me feel sick when people talk about Michael like he was some "popstar out of control", because it just doesn't do him justice :mad:. The media gave him so much hell and all, so I just find it revolting for people to say Michael has reality issues or delusions or "no one stood up to him" - the media "stood up to him" (i.e. defamed and criticized him) all the time! Michael Jackson is untouchable.
 
Superstition said:
I have noticed several times in the past when MJ was not right. Just not right. Like where he is giving testimony or whatever and he does some of The Girl Is Mine... he is clearly not himself. Compare that to the videos on MTV.com right now, the interview from 1999 and how absolute clear and alert he is, the difference is night and day. It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Thinking the exact same thing!
 
Yea i kinda understand Michael may have been addicted to the drugs but that doesn't mean he should have been given them. Especially not the Diprivan outside the hospital it's not like a common sleeping medicine. I think they could have given him some other drug besides the one he wanted he wasn't the doctor. I just don't know i love Michael and with all honesty even if it proves that he was in fact an addict i won't love him any less.
 
Yeah, there really seemed to be something troubling going on with him but I agree with what was already mentioned that "it could not have been easy being Michael Jackson". No, it certainly couldn't have been easy and living under the scope like that is one of the reasons many celebrities do become dependent on some sort of substance. Most people just can't deal with such external attention being put on them. And MJ came across as quite the sensitive fellow - it must have been hard for him to know some of the things being said about him . . . no wonder he couldn't sleep! Add to that the fact that he was extensively damaged/hurt by his childhood, and you've got a dependency issue ripe for the plucking. And the enablers certainly didn't help him any.
 
All of these posts have summed up my thoughts and emotions lately and so much more. I think i have gone through so many emotions, denial, grief, anger, disbelief, depression, sadness, even happiness that he lived. This whole thing has been a rollercoaster. And about the drugs etc. I will wait and see for the reports. But I do agree with a lot of the above sentiments true. I dont want michael to be left with a last legacy in the general public as a drug user. They just dont have the capacity to understand his level of fame, and the vested interest the enablers have to keep him drugged. Must have been mighty useful for them in terms of him signing off on things and making decisions, spending money etc.
 
we still don't know exactly what or how it happened....but I always thought Michael was so alone! I was wondering how is he handling all the problems
I worried about him because I knew he needed and always wanted at least one close friend someone he could trust and he didn't have that...when he was alive I worried but I didn't lose hope, now it just tears me to pieces
 
The emotional conflict is the worst after death!

I wouldn't be mad at him. I wasn't mad at him when he admitted the first time that he was dealing with this addiction. He made attempts over the years to solve it (remember him telling Jesse Jackson of using more natural medicines) only to fall back into the scientific way of solving things. And it's not so hard to fall back into that given that a quick shot of that poison erases the pain the way no amount of yoga, acupuncture, teas, prayer, or herbals will.

I deal with severe menstrual cramps for three days every month. I have taken up to ten to twelve aspirin over a 24 hour period just so I can walk. (No I don't reccommend that!) Just to stop myself, I've just taken off from work and sat in a tub of hot water for most of the day. But taking a pain pill is so tempting at times that it makes me weep. I'm afraid to go to the doctor with it because I'm afraid they'll give me something I'm not going to be able to let go when I want to. I don't have an addictive personality. I don't think Michael Jackson did either. But pain has a way of making you loose all of your sensibilities and no one around you can tell you different.

We're not talking about someone just trying to get high. We're not talking about someone just trying to get a buzz. We're talking about someone in physical pain no one else could feel. Given that he had Lupus, I think it's wonderful he lasted as long as he did. Others with his condition are not that lucky. My Godmother did not last very long. She died after performing one of her shows. She was around Michael's age.

He (or my Godmother) couldn't just ignore his Lupus or his chronic pain anymore than anyone else with his condition can. And we all know that stress can flare things up. This is how we are ALL at our doctor's mercy. Any one of us with a doctor has an enabler. When we tell them what's wrong, we expect them to help. If they refuse, (and they rarely do when you can pay them) we find someone else who will. They can make us addicts straight out of the womb. Starting with vaccines. (I won't get into the problems that has been know to cause.)

I can't help but think of women who had to go from doctor to doctor before someone would listen when she said something was wrong with her. Someone who wasn't going to tell her it was all in her head and supply her with an anti-deppressant or a sedative. Only to discover in the end she was in the early stages of cancers that could be treated. This is STILL happening as we speak and we have women who have either died or have become dependant on unecessary pills because of this.

I look at the regimen that Suzanne Somers goes through daily which is a collection of pills and injections all in the name of preserving her youth and keeping her own medical condition at bay. She told Oprah Winfrey about it and it was just shocking to me. I'm thinking, "Who in hell is authorizing this?"

Simple. Her Doctors. Board certified medical doctors!

On a side note, Oxman and Chopra and Boteach--in that order--started this mess mere hours after he died and everyone else followed. Chopra and Boteach are even more amazing given that they claim they saw Michael was a drug addict but had no problems leaving their children alone with him. Even overnight! What, they thought the kids were going to be able to sober him up? With no concrete results, everything is pure speculation. For all we know, his death could have been an adult form of SIDS. But thanks to the Three Stooges, someone is going to steer it right back to drugs. Let's just hope when the dust settles and this was an OD, we might finally start taking these Doctors and Pharmacists to task.

We should have did so after Heath died...
 
Last edited:
What I keep thinking now is "Why now God?" I mean, I wanted him to show the world just how much he had it in him to do these concerts...and I wanted him to eventually find another, fall in love again, and get married and live a comfortable old age. He was plucked in his prime!! And don't tell ME he was 112 pounds. The man I saw dancing in that last clip was lean and mean. He was no 112 pounds. He looked healthy!! W T F????
 
LindaC781 said:
BONGANI, I saw this. I couldn't help but notice how drugged up he was. Yeah, some members calling me out about it - but it was a direct observation by me. And I have had enough experience with drug addiction with my various jobs in the past to really notice it. Believe me, I can pick that stuff up like nobody's business.

I wish they intervened back then. I wish someone had the balls enough to stand up to Mike back then. I wish that his entourage didn't follow like lemmings. I wish that not only ONE person stood up, but EVERYONE did. When you follow others like lemmings, you are only enabling. Really. So what if everyone was ignoring this? Don't they have a conscience??
Click to expand...
Do you happen to have the link to that thread? Or which event was this about?
 
Obviously Michael was very troubled and I do believe he had an addiction to prescription drugs, but I could never be angry at him. There must have been a reason he was doing this. Being angry with addicts doesn't help them. What he needed was someone who really cared for him and told him that enough was enough. He needed an intervention. I feel sad for Michael, not angry. He was struggling so much, this is why I believe he was taking all these pain killers and meds. I'm not angry at all, I just feel sorry for him.
 
I know what you mean, but I'm not feeling that very strongly at this point. He was an intelligent person and I'd have hoped that this would have made him think about it all more. But if it turns out to be Diprivan that was the thing... I guess he thought it was safe enough. I mean, just because a medication is dangerous and could cause death if not used right doesn't mean it would scare someone away. I'm insulin-dependent. Insulin kills people. One of my asthma meds has the severe "black box warning" on it, yet I need it to breathe. So, could be deadly, could be ok, depending on your particular body and how it's used. Diprivan sounds particularly crazy, but what if someone told him it was ok at some point, not to really worry? We don't know if this stuff is all true, but he'd called the doc to his house the night before and you have to be monitored if using that stuff. And then he had two doctors on the HIStory Tour, one being an anesthesiologist. I could only imagine that that doctor introduced him to this crazy idea and since he had awoken without incident so many times before, would have assumed it would be ok this time as well. It's frustrating and heartbreaking. I guess I'll wait and see how I feel once we know more, after all results have been released. I can't stomach the thought of pain killers in addition, as so many have said. Right now I think I'm just too sad. In any case, I love him with all my soul, no matter what.
 
Cinnamon234 said:
Obviously Michael was very troubled and I do believe he had an addiction to prescription drugs, but I could never be angry at him. There must have been a reason he was doing this. Being angry with addicts doesn't help them. What he needed was someone who really cared for him and told him that enough was enough. He needed an intervention. I feel sad for Michael, not angry. He was struggling so much, this is why I believe he was taking all these pain killers and meds. I'm not angry at all, I just feel sorry for him.
Click to expand...

Well of course. He had three kids. He had people around him ALL THE TIME. He had people suing him ALL THE TIME. He had requests from people all the the time, whether it was to do a performance, to donate money, to make an appearance, whatever. Then there were the jokes. I mean, if he was innocent (and I think most of us here agree he was), what kind of person deserves that level of criticism and bashing?

I don't care how tough he said he was, a person can only take so much.
 
Superstition said:
Well of course. He had three kids. He had people around him ALL THE TIME. He had people suing him ALL THE TIME. He had requests from people all the the time, whether it was to do a performance, to donate money, to make an appearance, whatever. Then there were the jokes. I mean, if he was innocent (and I think most of us here agree he was), what kind of person deserves that level of criticism and bashing?

I don't care how tough he said he was, a person can only take so much.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
My thing is if all he wanted is some sleep or whatever and the doctors said oh taking whatever is okay and he trusted them because they were doctors.

If that's the case I am not mad at him and they need to pay.
 
LindaC781 said:
What I keep thinking now is "Why now God?" I mean, I wanted him to show the world just how much he had it in him to do these concerts...and I wanted him to eventually find another, fall in love again, and get married and live a comfortable old age. He was plucked in his prime!! And don't tell ME he was 112 pounds. The man I saw dancing in that last clip was lean and mean. He was no 112 pounds. He looked healthy!! W T F????
Click to expand...


There is a reason for everything.
 
Does any know why was Michael sleeping in the afternoon? Was he already in pain and had to lie down? I just hope he didnt feel any pain. :(
 
I must admit, if it was drugs that killed MJ, then I will be a little disappointed in him, however, there is one thing that makes me doubt the whole "he was addicted to drugs" story that has come about after his death. When Michael's doped up, it's obvious. Look at the Mexico Deposition, look at the MSG concerts, you can tell. I haven't seen him like that in a long time. Even when the rehearsal footage was released, there was a big difference between his performance there when compared to the MSG concerts. He was alert and focused. He was back to his old self. When he showed up at the O2 to announce the concert series, he was smiling, he was alert, he was happy. He didn't look or sound like he was high off his head. It was different during the MSG concerts, it was almost as if Michael didn't know where to turn or what to do. He looked lost on that stage. We know when Michael's not himself. But like I said, I haven't seen him "high" in a long time. He always seemed so alert. Also, remember, the people who are coming out saying that he was addicted to drugs, Uri Gellar, Depak Chropa (sp?), Matt Fiddes, Brian Oxman, Rabbi Shmuley, are people who knew Michael during that era - 2001-2005. They haven't seen Michael since that time, so I'm leaning towards the Dipravan story. I'm sure he wasn't addicted to it, but he was told by his doctor that it was safe to use, and that it would help him sleep. Apparently, according to this nurse, it was given to him before :scratch: Whoever gave Michael this drug, or whoever told him it was safe needs take responsibility.
 
Last edited:
StephluvsMJ said:
I must admit, if it was drugs that killed MJ, then I will be a little disappointed in him, however, there is one thing that makes me doubt the whole "he was addicted to drugs" story that has come about after his death. When Michael's doped up, it's obvious. Look at the Mexico Deposition, look at the MSG concerts, you can tell. I haven't seen him like that in a long time. Even when the rehearsal footage was released, there was a big difference between his performance there when compared to the MSG concerts. He was alert and focused. He was back to his old self. When he showed up at the O2 to announce the concert series, he was smiling, he was alert, he was happy. He didn't look or sound like he was high off his head. It was different during the MSG concerts, it was almost as if Michael didn't know where to turn or what to do. He looked lost on that stage. We know when Michael's not himself. But like I said, I haven't seen him "high" in a long time. He always seemed so alert. Also, remember, the people who are coming out saying that he was addicted to drugs, Uri Gellar, Depak Chropa (sp?), Matt Fiddes, Brian Oxman, Rabbi Shmuley, are people who knew Michael during that era - 2001-2005. They haven't seen Michael since that time, so I'm leaning towards the Dipravan story. I'm sure he wasn't addicted to it, but he was told by his doctor that it was safe to use, and that it would help him sleep. Apparently, according to this nurse, it was given to him before :scratch: Whoever gave Michael this drug, or whoever told him it was safe needs take responsibility.
Click to expand...
I basically agree with everything you said here, yep.
 
LindaC781 said:
On one hand...
Click to expand...

Superstition said:
I agree...
Click to expand...

I agree with you both, and I'm glad too see that there are more people than myself that have enough self distance to question some things Michael did.

I really have a problem with fans that are indifferent or think absolutely everything with Michael is marvelous, because they feel that they're not "real fans" if they slightly disagree with anything Michael has done. Kind of like "naw it's cool he did drugs", or just being like "all his songs are equally amazing.", "no outfits he wore looked bad, he looked equally amazing in everything", e.t.c.

In the end of the day I really hope any thing good can come out of this tragedy, to not let it be a complete lost. Even though it hurts to hear what Deepak is saying I really hope someone with power will look at it like "Man, we must stop this groupie doctors and enablers NOW, before we lose more lives".
We can't get Michael back, but there are lives out there that can be saved.

Of course I'd be even more sad than I am now if Mike in fact had drugs in his system at death, because he would probably still be here right now.
At the same time it's hard to know what Michael went through, it's like... we can only imagine.
 
I don't feel angry at MJ. I feel it was the deprivan and I feel he was desperate to get to sleep. I only feel sorry that he is gone and that he did not get to live to a good old age. I feel sorry that he missed out on seeing his children grow up. I don't know what to make of the Chopra's, Oxman's and Gellers that are coming up with these drug stories. Like one poster said, he looked very alert at the last rehearsal. My only thought is that I hope he felt no pain and had no awareness that he was dying.
 
StephluvsMJ said:
I must admit, if it was drugs that killed MJ, then I will be a little disappointed in him, however, there is one thing that makes me doubt the whole "he was addicted to drugs" story that has come about after his death. When Michael's doped up, it's obvious. Look at the Mexico Deposition, look at the MSG concerts, you can tell. I haven't seen him like that in a long time. Even when the rehearsal footage was released, there was a big difference between his performance there when compared to the MSG concerts. He was alert and focused. He was back to his old self. When he showed up at the O2 to announce the concert series, he was smiling, he was alert, he was happy. He didn't look or sound like he was high off his head. It was different during the MSG concerts, it was almost as if Michael didn't know where to turn or what to do. He looked lost on that stage. We know when Michael's not himself. But like I said, I haven't seen him "high" in a long time. He always seemed so alert. Also, remember, the people who are coming out saying that he was addicted to drugs, Uri Gellar, Depak Chropa (sp?), Matt Fiddes, Brian Oxman, Rabbi Shmuley, are people who knew Michael during that era - 2001-2005. They haven't seen Michael since that time,
Click to expand...

What about the recent clip where the Paps asked him If he could moonwalk? And he said "Why wouldn't I be able to?" Haven't seen the clip but many of you were using the word "doped up" to describe how he spoke. Apperantly his speech was slurred like with the Depositions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top