Have your opinions changed? (Cascio Tracks)

[Arklove]

That may explain why a overwhelming majority believed the song Breaking News is not genuine when the song was first streamed at mj.com. Their instinct was telling them something was not right. Then, people let logic and reasoning get along the way and recondition to accept what is being told.

Which I can understand those people....But for me, it's instinct all the way..i WANT to believe that we're being told the truth, but until I see actual evidence of the forensics, ANYBODY can say they have tested the vocals...doesn't mean it happened

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

As said before, validity of opinions have nothing to with it. But when you look at it, it's the same exact situation as the hoax stuff, same exact one, so how can these discussions not be limited to it's own sub-forum?

After June 25th, you had people saying "I just can't believe he's gone, I just can't feel it", despite everything else telling us otherwise. This opened people up to posting videos and other articles as proof to support the theory, it got so out of hand, it was moved to it's own place. After Breaking News, you had people saying "That's not Michael, I don't hear it, it's not Michael", despite everything else telling us otherwise, people then post comparison video's of edited vocals, vocal analysis of people who have yet to come forward and confirm their findings, and people who suddenly feel as if, they're also super-producers. It got out of hand a long time ago, people have been repeatedly asked to keep it respectful, it hasn't happened, people are still split 50/50 regarding vocal authenticity. How long will this be allowed to go on?

 

[LoveMJackson]

Then when I come here and see people want to regulate this opinion to a sub forum, or the conspiracy section as if I don't know what I hear, it upsets me. I know we are all unique and will hear things a different way, but to say your opinion has more validity than mine is a slap in my face.

This. You are absolutely right.
And you are not alone, ginvid. I totally understand how you feel.

 

[Graf]

As said before, validity of opinions have nothing to with it. But when you look at it, it's the same exact situation as the hoax stuff, same exact one, so how can these discussions not be limited to it's own sub-forum?

After June 25th, you had people saying "I just can't believe he's gone, I just can't feel it", despite everything else telling us otherwise. This opened people up to posting videos and other articles as proof to support the theory, it got so out of hand, it was moved to it's own place. After Breaking News, you had people saying "That's not Michael, I don't hear it, it's not Michael", despite everything else telling us otherwise, people then post comparison video's of edited vocals, vocal analysis of people who have yet to come forward and confirm their findings, and people who suddenly feel as if, they're also super-producers. It got out of hand a long time ago, people have been repeatedly asked to keep it respectful, it hasn't happened, people are still split 50/50 regarding vocal authenticity. How long will this be allowed to go on?

I can't say for sure, but in my opinion, this will go on forever until there is an actual final resolution to it.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

So we're all just supposed to continue to bicker back and forth until what? If it's revealed the vocals are Michael's people will continue to dispute it, the only way this will stop is if it's proven that they aren't Michael, which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.


I'll just say this, it took little under a year for Arista records to receive lawsuits over Milli Vanilli. Granted, this was before the age of twitter and facebook, but people actually did something about it, if they felt they were being blatantly lied to and deceived.

 

[love is magical]

As said before, validity of opinions have nothing to with it. But when you look at it, it's the same exact situation as the hoax stuff, same exact one, so how can these discussions not be limited to it's own sub-forum?

After June 25th, you had people saying "I just can't believe he's gone, I just can't feel it", despite everything else telling us otherwise. This opened people up to posting videos and other articles as proof to support the theory, it got so out of hand, it was moved to it's own place. After Breaking News, you had people saying "That's not Michael, I don't hear it, it's not Michael", despite everything else telling us otherwise, people then post comparison video's of edited vocals, vocal analysis of people who have yet to come forward and confirm their findings, and people who suddenly feel as if, they're also super-producers. It got out of hand a long time ago, people have been repeatedly asked to keep it respectful, it hasn't happened, people are still split 50/50 regarding vocal authenticity. How long will this be allowed to go on?

I respectfully diagree. The nature of this controversy is totally different from the hoax theory.

First, I don't think an overwhelming majority of fans believed in the hoax theory. Then, changed their minds after the memorial service.

Second, the tracks do sound different. People don't come here and say Much Too Soon or Best of Joy sounds different. People do not make this up.

Third, the last several posts are very respectful.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

It's not that different, it's only different when it benefits one side it seems. But both situations are based off of nothing more than feeling as opposed to actual proof.

 

[wolfrevenant]

I didn't know where else to put this, but I am about to blow a gasket. I went to the MJ party in NY and listened to BN and Monster. I bought the album and listened to BN and Monster. I came to the same conclusion: THEY DO NOT SOUND LIKE MJ (except for some notes here and there). I have fought over this for so long. I have gone back and forth. I have listened to many arguments and both sides. I have come to the same conclusion.

Against what I feel to be logical, and against what would seem to be most probable, I have decided that somebody is playing us. I want to believe the Cascios and Teddy. I want to believe Sony and the Estate. But it is hard for me to reconcile what I hear with what is being said. At the end of the day, the consumer has to be the guage for what they feel is acceptable.
It upsets me to even type this. You all know I don't typically agree with the Jacksons. I am one of their biggest doubters (and will continue with the way they have acted) but something has to be terribly wrong for the songs to sound the way they do. And what is sad is that the songs are great songs, they just would be better if we heard MJ more distinctively.

Then when I come here and see people want to regulate this opinion to a sub forum, or the conspiracy section as if I don't know what I hear, it upsets me. I know we are all unique and will hear things a different way, but to say your opinion has more validity than mine is a slap in my face. I want to support MJ and his fans. That is why I spend so much time here, but I am so torn over this. I don't know what to do. It is a terrible feeling.

Here are some things I want to clear up:

I was not influenced by Taj. My first inclination was to discredit them.
I am not a hater.
I do not find pleasure in feeling this way.
I was not influenced by other people. I waited until I had the album and heard the vocals for myself before I posted this.
It does not sound like MJ to me.
Logically I would think it is him just because I would wonder why the powers that be would do this. But I just can't reconcile what I hear to MJ's voice. And the songs being surrounded by other songs that are MJ only make them stick out like a sore thumb.
I want MJ to succeed.
I am not Anti_Sony. Nor do I think MJ was at the end of his life.
I'm not deaf, dumb, stupid, etc.
I am lost. Could they really have tried this?
I feel sick. I don't understand why this is happening.

I am going to call my friend who is a lawyer. SOmething has to be done. I am so upset over this. They have to be made to show us rather than have us taking their word for it. I will let you guys know what she says.

Gee...I know how you feel. Sometimes, I wonder how crazy I must be, if I'm going against rationality. In fact, now I think I know how the TINI and hoax believers feel. The idea of being made out to be a crazy, delusioned fan who deserves to be in the sub-forum for crazy and delusional people, just saddens me.

Even the idea of me explaining to my friends of how the media conspired to destroy Michael, must have made me look crazy to them.

You know what I think might be the problem? That false sense of security. Of course, I picked this up from one of my classes, that probably has nothing to do with what's going on here. But it stated something like; one of the disadvantages to regulation is that it lulls users into a false sense of security. If you haven't guessed yet, it was referring to the financial market. About how people think that companies would not dare to do something so incredibly risky and stupid, especially while they're being regulated. As a result, people just sit back and let the government take care of things, until suddenly, there's a financial crisis and everyone goes crazy.

Why I bring it up, is because that's one of the reasons I seem to hear quite a bit around here, that actually sounds quite similar to the reasons why some people choose not to worry about the financial market, about banks and so on. Why would they do that? They have more to lose than me. They're a big corporation, they would not dare to destroy their reputation.

Not that it has anything to do with here, I mean, it's not as if companies commit fraud on a regular basis (or music labels, for that matter), especially not big corporations like Sony. Or do they?

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

In terms of the economy, fraud would only make things worse for this specific label. They know the songs sound different, they know some of us feel the songs sound different. I think they knew the risks at hand when they decided to do what they did, whatever it was.

 

[ginvid]

It's not that different, it's only different when it benefits one side it seems. But both situations are based off of nothing more than feeling as opposed to actual proof.

I think you are right about this. This is why I think relegating one side to the conspracy section is wrong. If we had proof that they were MJ then you can just say that those who felt differently are in denial and they should be sent there. But since neither side has any proof and we are going on subjective hearing and feelings, then to relegate those who feel differently to the Conspiracy section only says, that the other's opinions are more correct.

Until we get more proof and substantiation either way, then both opinions should be allowed to be discussed out in the open on EQUAL footing.

 

[love is magical]

It's not that different, it's only different when it benefits one side it seems. But both situations are based off of nothing more than feeling as opposed to actual proof.

I'm a doubter. I cannot convince myself that Michael is 100% in the tracks. I don't see how my doubt benefits me. Trust me, I'd rather have no doubt and enjoy the album and sing praise to it.

I'm open minded. Some people here have recording/music mixing experience. They are patient enough to explain how pitching up/down, layering can impact the quality of the vocals. I listen to them and take that into consideration. Heathy debate and discussion can actually be informative and enlightening.

Why do we love Michael's music so much? For me, it's because his music touches my heart and soul like no others. He makes me dance, inspires me, puts a smile on my face, pulls the string in my heart, turns me on, comforts me, relieves my stress... All these emotions are feelings. How can I enjoy his music if I don't allow my own feelings?

 

[mjjesamor]

considering that the Malachi thread was closed i'll post this here.
Tony Kurtis you tube account has been closed and the voice comparison video is gone.
Tony had this to say yesterday though.....
"I Welcome? Getting Sued Cause That Would Add Up To Me Testing Their Masters Against My Masters On JASON And You Saying I'M SORRY SIR YOU ARE RIGHT"

 

[wolfrevenant]

In terms of the economy, fraud would only make things worse for this specific label. They know the songs sound different, they know some of us feel the songs sound different. I think they knew the risks at hand when they decided to do what they did, whatever it was.

Indeed. I don't think I'm in a position to judge how such a fraud (if it is) would benefit a label like Sony. For them to insist, even though so many people are against the tracks (whether authentic or not), also doesn't make sense either, if we assume their interest in this project is purely financial gain. Hence, for the theories that they purposely played into this, though I'm surprised they didn't decide to end it as soon as the album was released, or somewhere there.

I don't even know why companies might commit fraud in the first place. One would think the main incentive is money, but if it's such a big corporation, why would they risk so much for something they should already have? No matter how much rationality the outside people put into it, fraud still occurs, even from corporations.

And so, I always maintain this believe, never assume what a man/woman can or cannot do, or what a man/woman will or will not do.

considering that the Malachi thread was closed i'll post this here.
Tony Kurtis you tube account has been closed and the voice comparison video is gone.
Tony had this to say yesterday though.....
"I Welcome? Getting Sued Cause That Would Add Up To Me Testing Their Masters Against My Masters On JASON And You Saying I'M SORRY SIR YOU ARE RIGHT"

Does that mean he's been sued? Or he's waiting for any legal actions they may take?

 

[mjjesamor]

I don't know if he is being sued.I just went to watch the video again and saw that his account had been closed. That was his last cooment yesterday. Make of it what you want. I think it's interesting to say the least.
He also gave this explanation as to why he waited so long to come out.......
I'm a Producer as well i haven't watched Tv or listen to a radio in about 2 1/2 months i have been recording i? never even knew Michael record was coming out until my aunt just passed on Nov 29 /2010 my family wanted me to sing for her funeral so i downloaded "GONE TOO SOON" instrumental off youtube i recored it sick so they could play it for the funeral but i posted it on youtube on my page that's when i heard "BREAKING NEWS" for the 1st time and i said that's Jason.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

I think you are right about this. This is why I think relegating one side to the conspracy section is wrong. If we had proof that they were MJ then you can just say that those who felt differently are in denial and they should be sent there. But since neither side has any proof and we are going on subjective hearing and feelings, then to relegate those who feel differently to the Conspiracy section only says, that the other's opinions are more correct.

Until we get more proof and substantiation either way, then both opinions should be allowed to be discussed out in the open on EQUAL footing.

I see where you're coming from, after your explanation, I'm a little more sympathetic toward the matter. And I certainly see your point, I just feel like, such discussion is bound to bring about some hostility between members.

 

[kopwatcher]

I didn't know where else to put this, but I am about to blow a gasket. I went to the MJ party in NY and listened to BN and Monster. I bought the album and listened to BN and Monster. I came to the same conclusion: THEY DO NOT SOUND LIKE MJ (except for some notes here and there). I have fought over this for so long. I have gone back and forth. I have listened to many arguments and both sides. I have come to the same conclusion.

Against what I feel to be logical, and against what would seem to be most probable, I have decided that somebody is playing us. I want to believe the Cascios and Teddy. I want to believe Sony and the Estate. But it is hard for me to reconcile what I hear with what is being said. At the end of the day, the consumer has to be the guage for what they feel is acceptable.
It upsets me to even type this. You all know I don't typically agree with the Jacksons. I am one of their biggest doubters (and will continue with the way they have acted) but something has to be terribly wrong for the songs to sound the way they do. And what is sad is that the songs are great songs, they just would be better if we heard MJ more distinctively.

Then when I come here and see people want to regulate this opinion to a sub forum, or the conspiracy section as if I don't know what I hear, it upsets me. I know we are all unique and will hear things a different way, but to say your opinion has more validity than mine is a slap in my face. I want to support MJ and his fans. That is why I spend so much time here, but I am so torn over this. I don't know what to do. It is a terrible feeling.

Here are some things I want to clear up:

I was not influenced by Taj. My first inclination was to discredit them.
I am not a hater.
I do not find pleasure in feeling this way.
I was not influenced by other people. I waited until I had the album and heard the vocals for myself before I posted this.
It does not sound like MJ to me.
Logically I would think it is him just because I would wonder why the powers that be would do this. But I just can't reconcile what I hear to MJ's voice. And the songs being surrounded by other songs that are MJ only make them stick out like a sore thumb.
I want MJ to succeed.
I am not Anti_Sony. Nor do I think MJ was at the end of his life.
I'm not deaf, dumb, stupid, etc.
I am lost. Could they really have tried this?
I feel sick. I don't understand why this is happening.

I am going to call my friend who is a lawyer. SOmething has to be done. I am so upset over this. They have to be made to show us rather than have us taking their word for it. I will let you guys know what she says.

^
This. Just this. It's not as if we enjoy coming to this conclusion.

 

[ivy]

considering that the Malachi thread was closed i'll post this here.
Tony Kurtis you tube account has been closed and the voice comparison video is gone.
Tony had this to say yesterday though.....
"I Welcome? Getting Sued Cause That Would Add Up To Me Testing Their Masters Against My Masters On JASON And You Saying I'M SORRY SIR YOU ARE RIGHT"

Does that mean he's been sued? Or he's waiting for any legal actions they may take?

he might have gotten a cease and desist letter (which is basically is saying stop doing a certain thing or be ready to be sued). However if he removed it after such a letter it means that he's removing it to avoid a lawsuit. If he was welcoming a lawsuit he would have continue to keep it.

 

[fzsky]

I didn't know where else to put this, but I am about to blow a gasket. I went to the MJ party in NY and listened to BN and Monster. I bought the album and listened to BN and Monster. I came to the same conclusion: THEY DO NOT SOUND LIKE MJ (except for some notes here and there). I have fought over this for so long. I have gone back and forth. I have listened to many arguments and both sides. I have come to the same conclusion.

Against what I feel to be logical, and against what would seem to be most probable, I have decided that somebody is playing us. I want to believe the Cascios and Teddy. I want to believe Sony and the Estate. But it is hard for me to reconcile what I hear with what is being said. At the end of the day, the consumer has to be the guage for what they feel is acceptable.
It upsets me to even type this. You all know I don't typically agree with the Jacksons. I am one of their biggest doubters (and will continue with the way they have acted) but something has to be terribly wrong for the songs to sound the way they do. And what is sad is that the songs are great songs, they just would be better if we heard MJ more distinctively.

Then when I come here and see people want to regulate this opinion to a sub forum, or the conspiracy section as if I don't know what I hear, it upsets me. I know we are all unique and will hear things a different way, but to say your opinion has more validity than mine is a slap in my face. I want to support MJ and his fans. That is why I spend so much time here, but I am so torn over this. I don't know what to do. It is a terrible feeling.

Here are some things I want to clear up:

I was not influenced by Taj. My first inclination was to discredit them.
I am not a hater.
I do not find pleasure in feeling this way.
I was not influenced by other people. I waited until I had the album and heard the vocals for myself before I posted this.
It does not sound like MJ to me.
Logically I would think it is him just because I would wonder why the powers that be would do this. But I just can't reconcile what I hear to MJ's voice. And the songs being surrounded by other songs that are MJ only make them stick out like a sore thumb.
I want MJ to succeed.
I am not Anti_Sony. Nor do I think MJ was at the end of his life.
I'm not deaf, dumb, stupid, etc.
I am lost. Could they really have tried this?
I feel sick. I don't understand why this is happening.

I am going to call my friend who is a lawyer. SOmething has to be done. I am so upset over this. They have to be made to show us rather than have us taking their word for it. I will let you guys know what she says.

I totally agree with you. Every single word. Exactly the way I feel.

 

[8701girl]

I was talking with my bro b4 and he said that the ppl buying the album could sue if it isnt mj on the album and they arent happy bout it...is that true?

 

[nfj]

Please Buy the album - Support Michael

 

[PCR]

I didn't know where else to put this, but I am about to blow a gasket. I went to the MJ party in NY and listened to BN and Monster. I bought the album and listened to BN and Monster. I came to the same conclusion: THEY DO NOT SOUND LIKE MJ (except for some notes here and there). I have fought over this for so long. I have gone back and forth. I have listened to many arguments and both sides. I have come to the same conclusion.

Against what I feel to be logical, and against what would seem to be most probable, I have decided that somebody is playing us. I want to believe the Cascios and Teddy. I want to believe Sony and the Estate. But it is hard for me to reconcile what I hear with what is being said. At the end of the day, the consumer has to be the guage for what they feel is acceptable.
It upsets me to even type this. You all know I don't typically agree with the Jacksons. I am one of their biggest doubters (and will continue with the way they have acted) but something has to be terribly wrong for the songs to sound the way they do. And what is sad is that the songs are great songs, they just would be better if we heard MJ more distinctively.

Then when I come here and see people want to regulate this opinion to a sub forum, or the conspiracy section as if I don't know what I hear, it upsets me. I know we are all unique and will hear things a different way, but to say your opinion has more validity than mine is a slap in my face. I want to support MJ and his fans. That is why I spend so much time here, but I am so torn over this. I don't know what to do. It is a terrible feeling.

Here are some things I want to clear up:

I was not influenced by Taj. My first inclination was to discredit them.
I am not a hater.
I do not find pleasure in feeling this way.
I was not influenced by other people. I waited until I had the album and heard the vocals for myself before I posted this.
It does not sound like MJ to me.
Logically I would think it is him just because I would wonder why the powers that be would do this. But I just can't reconcile what I hear to MJ's voice. And the songs being surrounded by other songs that are MJ only make them stick out like a sore thumb.
I want MJ to succeed.
I am not Anti_Sony. Nor do I think MJ was at the end of his life.
I'm not deaf, dumb, stupid, etc.
I am lost. Could they really have tried this?
I feel sick. I don't understand why this is happening.

I am going to call my friend who is a lawyer. SOmething has to be done. I am so upset over this. They have to be made to show us rather than have us taking their word for it. I will let you guys know what she says.

I couldn't agree more with you, dear.
This is really what I feel, word by word, excpet, maybe for one thing: I am no more anti-Sony than ever before. I didn't feel so much like this, but this album and this mess have the merit to bring those feelings to me.

I want MJ to succeed, but this is not the way, Sony. Not the way.

This whole mess is really breaking our hearts. Things shouldn't be this way and, again: the best proof there is something really WRONG with those songs is this huge division. When on earth had Michael Jackson's music brought division and so much hate to his fans?

Never.
Ever.

:no:

 

[Maceo]

I totally agree with you. Every single word. Exactly the way I feel.

Me too, I must agree!.

 

[marebear]

The 3 songs in question are Breaking News, Monster and Keep Your Head Up right? After listening to the album a few times now,I hear Michael especially in Keep Your Head Up and Monster. Breaking News i can understand the hesitation and confusion but I think it's Michael. The album version is better than the first time I heard it online.

I might be the only one that thinks this and that's okay lol. Even listening to Hollywood Tonight and Breaking News back to back it sounds pretty similar the vocals. And that is a non-cascio song. I hope no one gets upset. It just how it sounds to me only. The other songs for sure sound like Michael to me.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

I was talking with my bro b4 and he said that the ppl buying the album could sue if it isnt mj on the album and they arent happy bout it...is that true?

Yes, it's what happened to Arista after the Milli Vanilli scandal, fans sued and the courts were in their favor. Of course this was already after both men admitted it wasn't their vocals. You can't just up and sue, with no proof of your claim.

 

[ivy]

I was talking with my bro b4 and he said that the ppl buying the album could sue if it isnt mj on the album and they arent happy bout it...is that true?

yes it's basically is consumer fraud. Legally companies cannot make false claims, misrepresentation of their products or sell products that don't work.

In other words a car manufacturer can't sell a car without an engine (that won't work), a jeweler cannot sell a cubic zirconia ring as a diamond, and a record company cannot sell an album with an artist's name and another person's vocals in the place of the artist's.

So consumers can sue any company if they have been a victim of fraud. And as Annie said the fraud has to be obvious or objectively be able to be proven.

 

[Ashtanga]

:fear:

 

[AdamBa17]

Type more carefully next time and don't say "WE KNOW", instead use "I KNOW" to avoid confusion. And spare me the attitude please, if you want to fight try somebody else

lol what attitude? i said we know because EVERYONE knows that the songs i posted are michael, NOONE disagrees on that.

you just posted one of the most pointless posts of all times imo, thats why i asked why you posted it. its like going up to someone in the street, pointing at their shoe and saying "hey, thats your shoe".

There is no doubt whatsoever that ALL SONGS minus the Cascio tracks ARE MJ. I believe all tracks are MJ, but for certain all the remaining 7 are. You'd be foolish to think otherwise. How can anyone doubt "Best Of Joy". I don't like being snotty, but you would really have to not know Michael's voice at all to even for a second believe that BOJ is a fake.

i dont doubt the other songs are MAINLY michael.

3 cascio tracks = fake
all other songs = ALL written and recorded by michael, BUT some songs have vocals (backing vocals, some lead lines) that were blatently filled in by someone else. parts of hollywood tonight (which i know is michael) are not michaels voice. he might not have completed the song so they dubbed over bits.

 

[Kapital77]

In Spain we know what to buy and what not to buy:

NUMBER 7 IN SPAIN, AWFULL FOR "MICHAEL".

 

[Garden]

Well I have to admit my opinions changed partially.
All the time I was searching for the "fake" vocals so much fans talked about. I could not find them. Now still I didn't find them, because I hear Michael on the lead vocals and no one else.

BUT, I was too focused on that word "fake" as not being Michael's voice.
Now after having bought the CD and having listened lots of times to the entire album on several different devices and with headphones... I can say that I hear that big parts of (I think Michael's) vocals on that Cascio tracks sound a bit like been put through some kind of sieve or riddle (right word?), that means they are too heavily processed. It is (to me) like the voice has minuscule holes in it, that's that strange vibrato. Teddy Riley said they had to do processing with Melodyne to bring the vocals on key with the music... well I understand, but there are limits to what's acceptable as a final product.
If it is necessary to deteriorate the sound of a voice to do that... you're not doing a good job with that. In some parts, the voice looses all substance and is like..."dust" (to me) in some (small) parts. It is in small parts here and there more noticeable than on other parts, but still it's frustrating.

But I would not say they used an other voice than Michael's, that's not obvious to me.
And however this is a serious matter and should be sued for... However I would not boycott the album for it.
But I think Michael Jackson (in the first place) and we, his fans, deserve more evidence and explanation than what we have now.

Also I want to ad that I very much appreciate people saying (f.i. Ginvid) "It doesn't sound like Michael" instead of "It is not Michael, it is fake, it is Malachi"
That we have no proof from. But we can say that it doesn't sound the way we know that Michael's voice sounds like.

Still I'ld love the fans to buy the album.

 

[8701girl]

Yes, it's what happened to Arista after the Milli Vanilli scandal, fans sued and the courts were in their favor. Of course this was already after both men admitted it wasn't their vocals. You can't just up and sue, with no proof of your claim.

Wow didnt know that.