Germany' s Biggest Newspaper Inside the Mausoleum at Forest Lawn ! June 26th, 2014

Is it so hard for people to show this man some respect! It just continues to boggle my mind the level of disrespect some people have no problem displaying when it comes to Michael.

I read things like this and it just makes me sad. Michael's tomb is not some tourist monument for people to be getting their selfie on.
 
To be fair, his resting place at Forest Lawn is far from out of the public eye. The Sanctuary of Ascension where he rests is atop a hill near the very front of the park, and it is easily the most visible landmark in the property. Not to mention Forest Lawn Glendale, where he rests, is not exactly hidden or out of the public view. It's right between two major highways and across the street from very busy parts of the city. The park sits on rolling foothills and the Great Mausoleum is VERY visible from most of the city surrounding it. It's not a gigantic skyscaper but it's very easily identifiable, and those windows are huge. It can easily be seen for a mile or two.

There are many other places Michael could have been buried, or even cremated, and for the life of me I'll never understand why the family chose the most easily accessible place. Going to his resting place is not like sneaking into Neverland, it's very accessible and very much in public.

However, I for one, am grateful they did choose that place...it's probably not what I would have done, but I'm still thankful I can go and pay my respects or grieve when I need to. Cemeteries are not for the dead, they are for the living. When I get the opportunity to go, it's not to ogle and snap photos. I go there to help process my grief. I know Michael really isn't there, it's just where his body is, but that's part of the grieving process that never truly ends.

I know that I would be forever appreciative to have a few minutes on the dais next to his tomb. It would help heal a heart that will always hurt for him.

However, you'd NEVER catch me snapping a selfie, and nor would I ever dream of otherwise defacing his grave. It's definitely not a moment I would ever need documented. But it's a moment I would give almost anything to have. No, we aren't Michael's immediate family or close friends, but we are important to him and he is important to us and there is still something that made that relationship and experience meaningful. I don't think that the doors should just be wide open all the time, but I know I'd treasure an opportunity to go inside, just one time.

If it is so private, then how are all of these photos and videos ending up becoming PUBLIC? I'll tell you how. . .disrespectful "fans", attention whores, etc. Cemeteries are a place to bury/entomb/lay to rest the dead, FIRST and foremost. Mike's memory isn't being respected by hordes of people feeling they are somehow entitled to grieve there because they loved him and mourn him. Cemeteries are full of people that are loved. That doesn't allow for the desecration and disrespect I've seen for the dead (and not just the famous). Should the dead buried in the same building as Mike have their resting place disturbed to allow for his fans to grieve? NO.

You don't have to be near his body to mourn him. And, as a fan (and I'm including myself, too) we are not entitled access to be near his tomb. And I stand by my earlier post where I said that anyone that DOES have legitimate access to it should lose it if it is abused.
 
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^^Yeah I agree. I went to Forest Lawn once when it was not close to any anniversary and I must say that the whole place filled me with such peace that I forgot I was in a cemetery. I walked from the gate to the top of the hill and ended up in the museum at the top. This place just says peace & rest and no one should go there with the intention to exploit the dead. I did not even feel sad or grieve there because the whole essence of the place is calming.

Oh oh I just paid attention to the Michael in the foot area of your siggy. I love his hip movement that goes forward/backward.
 
If it is so private, then how are all of these photos and videos ending up becoming PUBLIC? I'll tell you how. . .disrespectful "fans", attention whores, etc. Cemeteries are a place to bury/entomb/lay to rest the dead, FIRST and foremost.

I never said it was private, I stated the opposite: I said it was accessible. The plots themselves are privately owned.

Mike's memory isn't being respected by hordes of people feeling they are somehow entitled to grieve there because they loved him and mourn him. Cemeteries are full of people that are loved. That doesn't allow for the desecration and disrespect I've seen for the dead (and not just the famous).

"Somehow entitled to grieve?" Do you understand what grief is? It's not an action. It's a psychological process, that you clearly have not yet acknowledged in yourself, and I'm sorry for you. The physical behaviors one goes through when bereaved is not the same as the grief itself. It is a process.

Also, cemeteries aren't full of people - frankly, they're full of bodies and remains. The living created them as a way of honoring the dead, but believe me there's no biological reason for them. The dead don't just grow their own marble stones and pretty garden plots as time goes on - we do that for them because we're the ones left behind and have to find a way to process the loss.

Seriously, crack open DSM-IV and learn you something.

The "entitlement" to grieve is inherent in being human, period. I never once said that myself or any other fan or anyone should have unrestricted access. I just said that for myself, I know it would ease the pain I feel. Nobody grieves the same way.

Should the dead buried in the same building as Mike have their resting place disturbed to allow for his fans to grieve? NO.

Michael's plot is one of several hundred in that buildling. Believe it or not, property owners go in and out of there all the time and manage to leave him alone. In fact, they leave everyone else's plots alone. It's amazing. It's almost like they know that they're there only for their own business.

Do you know what it means to "disturb" a resting place? Because I don't think you do. No one is trying to rob his grave or make away with it (not like they could, it's huge). People go to pay their respects. They go to leave things there - sometimes a gift, but usually just a little peace and quiet and a bit of love. I don't get what it is this concept you don't understand. People do this all the time, and in fact there are several holidays in the US that we spend performing these rituals.

You don't have to be near his body to mourn him. And, as a fan (and I'm including myself, too) we are not entitled access to be near his tomb. And I stand by my earlier post where I said that anyone that DOES have legitimate access to it should lose it if it is abused.

You know absolutely nothing about me. You know nothing. You have no idea what my experience has been like, my story, or anything at all. Not anymore than I know yours. Maybe YOU don't need that experience, or maybe you are just so deeply envious of those who have had the opportunity that you seek to tear others down about it. But you have absolutely no right to tell others how they do or do not need to grieve, or feel, or anything like that.

And honestly, by your own logic, no one should ever be allowed to go near his tomb. Here's a bit of news: Michael is dead. He can't see his sanctuary. He can't get out and walk around and enjoy it. He has no concept of its peacefulness or beauty. He has zero concept. Know why? Because he isn't the one experiencing it. He certainly doesn't need or is entitled to the beautiful setting he's in right now. But that's where his remains are, because that's what those who are left behind felt would be best for their comfort - they can say for him, but really, he's dead and couldn't care less. It's blunt but it's biological truth. His place is stunning and certainly befitting his tastes, but he's not around to really pass any judgment on it one way or another. He didn't arrange it. What would he care? He's dead and has no use of it. But those who love him and had the means and decision-making authority DO have use of it, and DO care. Do you understand what I mean?

So he should just be left in there forever and ever and ever and ever and NO ONE should ever even THINK about going to see it because oh my god, coming within a mile of it is disrespectful to his privacy?! Girl, he is entombed. His casket is literally under a pile of concrete and the marble encasing it is sealed. There is no privacy of his to violate anymore. Not there. Violating his privacy is what Karen Faye did by describing his remains in sensationalized detail. Going to visit his grave is not, because it's there TO BE VISITED.

While there are codes of conduct in place at FL and they have blanket policies, you are not the sole authority on what is and isn't abuse of privately owned property, unless you own it. While I don't have access to the list, I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't, either. The person who has final say is that who signed the deed for it...which I'm pretty sure is either Katherine, Janet, or maybe even the Estate, I don't know. I know Janet mostly took care of the private funeral but I can't remember who actually purchased the plot.

And, despite your declaration, I never challenged or even mentioned any disagreement that those who abuse their access should be banned or suspended. I agree. But you aren't the person to make that decision, and your language/behavior suggest you don't entirely understand that. You are no more the authority on Michael's plot than you are over fans' behavior.

If the family chooses to let someone inside, they will. If they think that someone is abusive or disrespectful, I have confidence they will handle the situation swiftly.

I never said the fans should be ENTITLED, I said that I would appreciate an opportunity to visit his grave up close for a few minutes. That means I understand and respect the fact that it is privately monitored. Comprehension skills: learn them. Objective discussion: learn how to do it.

TL; DR get off your sanctimonious, paranoid, controlling high horse and stop inferring things I or any other fan did/didn't say, and learn that you have absolutely NO say in how anyone grieves. Period.
 
Is it so hard for people to show this man some respect! It just continues to boggle my mind the level of disrespect some people have no problem displaying when it comes to Michael.

I read things like this and it just makes me sad. Michael's tomb is not some tourist monument for people to be getting their selfie on.

I never said it was private, I stated the opposite: I said it was accessible. The plots themselves are privately owned.



"Somehow entitled to grieve?" Do you understand what grief is? It's not an action. It's a psychological process, that you clearly have not yet acknowledged in yourself, and I'm sorry for you. The physical behaviors one goes through when bereaved is not the same as the grief itself. It is a process.

Also, cemeteries aren't full of people - frankly, they're full of bodies and remains. The living created them as a way of honoring the dead, but believe me there's no biological reason for them. The dead don't just grow their own marble stones and pretty garden plots as time goes on - we do that for them because we're the ones left behind and have to find a way to process the loss.

Seriously, crack open DSM-IV and learn you something.

The "entitlement" to grieve is inherent in being human, period. I never once said that myself or any other fan or anyone should have unrestricted access. I just said that for myself, I know it would ease the pain I feel. Nobody grieves the same way.



Michael's plot is one of several hundred in that buildling. Believe it or not, property owners go in and out of there all the time and manage to leave him alone. In fact, they leave everyone else's plots alone. It's amazing. It's almost like they know that they're there only for their own business.

Do you know what it means to "disturb" a resting place? Because I don't think you do. No one is trying to rob his grave or make away with it (not like they could, it's huge). People go to pay their respects. They go to leave things there - sometimes a gift, but usually just a little peace and quiet and a bit of love. I don't get what it is this concept you don't understand. People do this all the time, and in fact there are several holidays in the US that we spend performing these rituals.



You know absolutely nothing about me. You know nothing. You have no idea what my experience has been like, my story, or anything at all. Not anymore than I know yours. Maybe YOU don't need that experience, or maybe you are just so deeply envious of those who have had the opportunity that you seek to tear others down about it. But you have absolutely no right to tell others how they do or do not need to grieve, or feel, or anything like that.

And honestly, by your own logic, no one should ever be allowed to go near his tomb. Here's a bit of news: Michael is dead. He can't see his sanctuary. He can't get out and walk around and enjoy it. He has no concept of its peacefulness or beauty. He has zero concept. Know why? Because he isn't the one experiencing it. He certainly doesn't need or is entitled to the beautiful setting he's in right now. But that's where his remains are, because that's what those who are left behind felt would be best for their comfort - they can say for him, but really, he's dead and couldn't care less. It's blunt but it's biological truth. His place is stunning and certainly befitting his tastes, but he's not around to really pass any judgment on it one way or another. He didn't arrange it. What would he care? He's dead and has no use of it. But those who love him and had the means and decision-making authority DO have use of it, and DO care. Do you understand what I mean?

So he should just be left in there forever and ever and ever and ever and NO ONE should ever even THINK about going to see it because oh my god, coming within a mile of it is disrespectful to his privacy?! Girl, he is entombed. His casket is literally under a pile of concrete and the marble encasing it is sealed. There is no privacy of his to violate anymore. Not there. Violating his privacy is what Karen Faye did by describing his remains in sensationalized detail. Going to visit his grave is not, because it's there TO BE VISITED.

While there are codes of conduct in place at FL and they have blanket policies, you are not the sole authority on what is and isn't abuse of privately owned property, unless you own it. While I don't have access to the list, I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't, either. The person who has final say is that who signed the deed for it...which I'm pretty sure is either Katherine, Janet, or maybe even the Estate, I don't know. I know Janet mostly took care of the private funeral but I can't remember who actually purchased the plot.

And, despite your declaration, I never challenged or even mentioned any disagreement that those who abuse their access should be banned or suspended. I agree. But you aren't the person to make that decision, and your language/behavior suggest you don't entirely understand that. You are no more the authority on Michael's plot than you are over fans' behavior.

If the family chooses to let someone inside, they will. If they think that someone is abusive or disrespectful, I have confidence they will handle the situation swiftly.

I never said the fans should be ENTITLED, I said that I would appreciate an opportunity to visit his grave up close for a few minutes. That means I understand and respect the fact that it is privately monitored. Comprehension skills: learn them. Objective discussion: learn how to do it.

TL; DR get off your sanctimonious, paranoid, controlling high horse and stop inferring things I or any other fan did/didn't say, and learn that you have absolutely NO say in how anyone grieves. Period.

ExoticPrincess summed it up in a real way what the behaviors/attitudes of some can and will make things harder for those that DON'T behave that way. Rules can change and so can the policies regarding ANY public place.

:coffee: As for that tirade, reibish, death isn't new to me and neither is the many times I've dealt with it on a close family level. I don't need to crack open a book or "learn something" about it. Btw, I didn't say anything that was out of turn or not true; there are people all over this PLANET that are mourning Mike and they haven't set foot in this country, much less anywhere near Forest Lawn and they don't need to or maybe don't want to. That is fine, that is alright, that is ok. In another thread I mentioned that I don't visit my parents' graves (and they mean much more to me than Mike), so this being "envious" of people that went to Forest Lawn is ridiculous at best. That isn't a necessity to mourn someone, but if that helps some, so be it.

I don't apologize for what I posted, because it didn't warrant that type of overly-emotional response. As for Mike's burial place, if the guidelines/rules are changed due to that disrespectful dude's selfie (and many other lapses in both security and judgement) and fan access to close proximity of Holly Terrace is restricted because of it, then you won't have a CHOICE but to mourn him from a distance.
 
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This time it was someone who has access to enter the Mausoleum who did very wrong, I hope that won't affect fans who visit Forest Lawn, since they have nothing to do with what Hagen did.
 
ExoticPrincess summed it up in a real way what the behaviors/attitudes of some can and will make things harder for those that DON'T behave that way. Rules can change and so can the policies regarding ANY public place.

:coffee: As for that tirade, reibish, death isn't new to me and neither is the many times I've dealt with it on a close family level. I don't need to crack open a book or "learn something" about it.

Btw, I didn't say anything that was out of turn or not true; there are people all over this PLANET that are mourning Mike and they haven't set foot in this country, much less anywhere near Forest Lawn and they don't need to or maybe don't want to. That is fine, that is alright, that is ok. In another thread I mentioned that I don't visit my parents' graves (and they mean much more to me than Mike), so this being "envious" of people that went to Forest Lawn is ridiculous at best. That isn't a necessity to mourn someone, but if that helps some, so be it.

The point, again, is that you talk about others' needs as if you know anything about them. You don't. You know that YOU personally don't need that and that is fine, and absolutely great that you recognize it in yourself. There certainly are many ways to mourn someone but you aren't the authority on who gets to do what and when, and it is not simply an issue of picking A, B, or C. I never once said or inferred that everyone has to do the same thing. All I ever said was that I know, for me, it would bring a LOT of comfort and would help me a LOT, and that given Forest Lawn's accessibility, it's frustrating that I can't be there, even though I understand why.

You cannot speak for other fans. You can only speak for yourself. Assuming others' needs and impressing your experience onto others like that is in fact something out of place to say. My whole first original comment on this thread was just simply sharing my experience and opinion. I 100% understand why some people would not want to visit, and I 100% understand why his access is restricted - since so many people who DO have access apparently don't respect or appreciate it. Michael is, by far, not the only serious loss in my life either, and I have approached each person's loss a different way. But you do not get to go around and say that the way some people grieve is wrong. Even, again a great example, Karen Faye - most of us agree she really needs help, but she's doing what she needs to do, as much as we wish she would stop, we can't make her do it. When you tell someone "you don't need this," you are disengaging them from their own experience and telling them it is invalid. Whether or not that is your intention, that is the result.

Also, you said that I meant every person is entitled to something, when that is not at all what I said. So either you really do not understand what I said or you don't know what "entitled" means.

I don't apologize for what I posted, because it didn't warrant that type of overly-emotional response. As for Mike's burial place, if the guidelines/rules are changed due to that disrespectful dude's selfie (and many other lapses in both security and judgement) and fan access to close proximity of Holly Terrace is restricted because of it, then you won't have a CHOICE but to mourn him from a distance.

Do you understand that access is already restricted?

I didn't ask for nor expect an apology - again, another inference I didn't make. Nor will I apologize to you as my "tirade" was just me defending myself to your inaccurate claims of what I said.

Carry on, bb. I can do this all day if you want! But I'd rather spend my time and energy on more intelligent discussion - which is what I originally hoped to contribute.

Peeeaaccceee!
 
SSDD, I see. . . :lmao:

The first thing that came to mind (after reading "Part #2") was this scene from "Airplane!"



Get a grip! This is a message board where people are invited to comment, discuss, you-name-it and sometimes disagree and that's cool. I wouldn't have it any other way! Frankly, it's not my (or anyone else's) problem if the message posted is misinterpreted/misunderstood by one or many. We all come from many backgrounds, nations, experiences, religions, political views, etc. and aren't expected to be cookie cutter.

As for the subject at hand, I wouldn't be surprised if the policies are changed due to the digital desecration/disrespect of Mike's tomb by that attention whore. The actions of a few can and sometimes do ruin things for the many that DON'T do such foolishness. That is why there are concrete barricades around many federal buildings here in the US, no thanks to the sick actions of a few.

This thread wasn't created to talk about someone grieving, ANYWAY; it is about some idiot being allowed to violate a private place and disrespect the dead (and the repercussions that may fall on many because of it). Btw, I have never designated myself as a spokesperson for all Mike fans and I wouldn't. If anyone "felt" that way, that isn't my problem; it's all on the one doing the interpreting. . . :hysterical:

I hope Pentarose got a response from her friend! I'm curious as to how Forest Lawn will deal with such breeches.
 
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Personally I would like to see Katherine sue this man, Michaels resting place should not be used for entertainment or sales, Katherine and the children are the only ones who should decide if photos of Michaels tomb are released to the public.
 
This time it was someone who has access to enter the Mausoleum who did very wrong, I hope that won't affect fans who visit Forest Lawn, since they have nothing to do with what Hagen did.



Yeah but where he got the code from? did he really have legit access to the place; I mean was it given to him by a family member to do what he did? I doubt it.

Lasttear I agree with you about who should have authority^^.

Sheila I have heard no other news from the staff member after she said the information would be passed on to the supervisor to see what could be done. Actually I don't think they will inform me about the decision/procedure they made. They will just handle it quietly and internally. Of course if they come up with a new rule that affects us, we will know why it happened and who to blame it on.

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On another note, talking about grief, I hope no one thinks this guy went there to process any grief. We are upset because he went in there to exploit Michael's resting place and Michael, and by doing so desecrated his burial area. Sure he did not paint the walls, break the marble or the usual physical things that people think of when they think about desecrating a grave site, but he did so nevertheless.

I hope any fan going there to process their grief will do so quietly and with some dignity. Maybe look at the tomb, place their hand on it, say a little message, leave flowers quietly, sit down on the bench, and then leave. At least I hope that is how they behave. Even the fans who bring all the flowers outside do so with some grace that show they were brought up properly.
 
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On another note, talking about grief, I hope no one thinks this guy went there to process any grief. We are upset because he went in there to exploit Michael's resting place and Michael, and by doing so desecrated his burial area. Sure he did not paint the walls, break the marble or the usual physical things that people think of when they think about desecrating a grave site, but he did so nevertheless.

I hope any fan going there to process their grief will do so quietly and with some dignity. Maybe look at the tomb, place their hand on it, say a little message, leave flowers quietly, sit down on the bench, and then leave. At least I hope that is how they behave. Even the fans who bring all the flowers outside do so with some grace that show they were brought up properly.

I agree with you in the bold.


I guess there is that question i always want to ask should Michael Jackson fans be allow to visit his tomb maybe this is a way some can deal with the grief by just sitting there leave your flowers saying special words to Michael like you mention now i can only speak for me i know alot of ppls will say no we should not be there and i understand that we are not family members but we are Michael Jackson fans.

Now it would be wrong if the fans go in there and scream to top of their voices fall on the floor just get totally crazy in there yes that would be disrespect to Michael and that Fan shouldn't be allow in.


It would be a way for us as Michael Jackson fans to show are respect to Michael it would be like closure for the fans this is just imo. What this man did is so wrong and so unfair he should never be allow in every again. If i was able to go inside i would just sit there and i would say Michael you are miss so much you are a true gift from God i would put my flowers down maybe touch his tomb and then leave. I know this will never happen i will still go to Forest Lawn every year to paid my respect to Michael Jackson send my flowers inside to be by Michael if that all i have then that all i have. You can feel Michael spirit there it is so calm the best time to go is in the moring when it is so quiet and peacful. To have that feel inside with Michael would be very special.




Am i wrong for saying that the fans should be able to visit Michael grave i know how the fans feel their don't want this to turn into Graceland but is it wrong what are your feelings on this? Should their stay outside like their always do or should fans be allow in?
 
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Wow, I truly hope this doesn't affect fans visiting FL, a lot of us travel long distances to get there and demonstrate our love, to mourn.. whatever, but we've always done it in a RESPECTFUL, LOVING way, not intending to disrupt the peace and quiet that beautiful place is known for or to violate Michael's resting place, it's a thought that would never cross my mind. I was there on the 24th, which is actually the the day this .... individual... went inside the Holy Terrace. I was with my friend and when I read about what he had done on here, my jaw literally dropped!! We kept wondering who the heck he was, WHY on earth was he allowed to go in and now the fact that he was being told to 'look sad' and secs later 'smile' (all in German) makes perfect sense now... HOW DISGUSTING. He and any of his kind should NEVER EVER get access to Michael's resting place, ever :mat: :mat:
 
Am i wrong for saying that the fans should be able to visit Michael grave i know how the fans feel their don't want this to turn into Graceland but is it wrong what are your feelings on this? Should their stay outside like their always do or should fans be allow in?

No, you aren't wrong and neither are those (like myself) that don't. This is how I see it: Mike gave more than enough of his life (including his death) to the public; his grave shouldn't be another tourist attraction. When Elizabeth Taylor refused to participate in the public memorial, I agreed with her reasoning. . .she saw it as a spectacle and cared about him too deeply to put her mourning him on display.

As fans, we shouldn't feel the need to possess every moment of his life/death. There should be a point where people can be content with not knowing everything, not having everything, not owning everything about Michael Jackson (or anyone), because the respect will be compromised for selfish reasons.

I truly hoped that the Jacksons would have had a small private service for family and close friends, then not have a grave for people to congregate by. Something like a burial at sea or cremation (then release his ashes in an undisclosed location).

Imho, the best way to keep his memory alive and honor him is to keep his MUSIC alive, keep sharing it with the generations after us, help those less fortunate than ourselves and pass his message of LOVE on. :heart:
 
No, you aren't wrong and neither are those (like myself) that don't. This is how I see it: Mike gave more than enough of his life (including his death) to the public; his grave shouldn't be another tourist attraction. When Elizabeth Taylor refused to participate in the public memorial, I agreed with her reasoning. . .she saw it as a spectacle and cared about him too deeply to put her mourning him on display.

As fans, we shouldn't feel the need to possess every moment of his life/death. There should be a point where people can be content with not knowing everything, not having everything, not owning everything about Michael Jackson (or anyone), because the respect will be compromised for selfish reasons.

I truly hoped that the Jacksons would have had a small private service for family and close friends, then not have a grave for people to congregate by. Something like a burial at sea or cremation (then release his ashes in an undisclosed location).

Imho, the best way to keep his memory alive and honor him is to keep his MUSIC alive, keep sharing it with the generations after us, help those less fortunate than ourselves and pass his message of LOVE on. :heart:


Thanks for this i agree with you.
 
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But we must also realize that Forest Lawn can't open it up to all fans and turn Michael's tomb/final resting place into it a tourist attraction either .. We have to understand and respect that ... We wouldn't want that for him. .I guess shouldn't speak for all , I wouldn't want that. (it would grieve me to see that happen)
... and wouldn't want that for all the others buried on this special place!!

Shame on you Michael Jacobshagen and this bunch of tabloid people you brought in!

This mausoleum isn't a place for "launching" PR on this Jacobshagen sticky book :swoon:
IMO another crappy beast of burden :tease: trying to jump on MJs dead back!
 
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Germany' s Biggest Newspaper Inside the Mausoleum at Forest Lawn ! June 26th,...

I also think we should be careful about assuming what MJ would and would not have wanted too. I see the point about not turning his burial site into a Graceland and I agree, however I do think fans should be able to mourn him by visiting that site too. Honestly, if you get right down to it -any arrangements we might come up with , no matter what criticisms we have about how it was handled, none of it was for MJ really. I think funerals and memorials and all of that are mainly for those that are still living. So I don't think any method would be a disservice to MJ. And I personally have no idea what MJ would have wanted. For instance I wouldn't be surprised that if the trial never happened, MJ wouldn't have minded Neverland being some kind of Graceland - as Neverland was built to be shared with people. So who's to say that MJ wouldn't have wanted a place for fans to mourn over him? MJ gave a lot - but some of what he gave he actually enjoyed giving. Love is one of those things and the purpose of a proper memorial site for fans to grieve is to allow that love exchange to happen.

That's how I see it anyway. And of course that's not to say those that don't feel a need to have something like that are wrong either. But I identify with the sentiment of fans who would like to have a place to pay respects - or even have a place (somewhere else obviously) to celebrate him, such like a Graceland.
 
According to Frank Cascio Michael wanted Neverland to become such a place as Graceland.But only after his death did he plan to open this place for his fans.At least that's what Frank wrote in his book.

I think it might have come off but for the trial and going over Neverland with a fine-tooth comb.
If only Michael had never met these liars Arvizos ,many things would have looked different and he wouldn't have had to leave his home.But he was simly too good and he trusted the wrong people,unfortunately.
 
And that is why Neverland is up for sale now because Michael felt it was not home for him anymore.
 
There's also a difference between a unsightly selfie and letting the most notorious tabloid Germany's in and so on.

I recently went to my last grandparents funeral across the world and yes, we did take pictures. We even took a group photo together. I certainly didn't take selfies, and I sure as heck didn't post them on Facebook next to someone's dinner and the next guy's 'Obama sucks!!!!!!' rant. And I have certainly processed her death far better than the death of other grandparents where I was unable to attend. Heck, I flew from the US to Germany after an appendectomy, it was that important to me and my family. My brother was tasked with official photos, heck, I really overcame myself after a friend asked me to take close up portraits of her deceased brother, because those are important to her.
My dad specifically photographed my other grandma in her casket because I could not attend.

My husband cannot tolerate a picture of his grandfather's grave, I on the other hand found some peace by seeing Michael's image during the trial. What the tabloids do with such a picture is entirely another story.

And it hurt like heck sitting outside on that bench at Forest Lawn, I'll never forget the sound of that door, bang. Some fans will always feel he should not be approached even in death, others were indeed very much hindered in their processing of his death because of how everything simply had to be done with such caution, but at the time of huge upheaval it is not easy to make any decision.

So I would say that people and different cultures have very much different ideas on the appropriateness of cemetery visits. My Ukrainian side eats a boiled egg in the cemetery on Easter, my German relatives need the gravest sounding music they could find from a string quartet, and my German relatives wonder how anyhow grieving can survive the sight of an open casket as often done in the US.

Sounds to me that a stupid selfie ranks low- with that one exception, that you had to invite the most xenophobic and nasty tabloid in there.

Speaking of desecration, I find Tracey's action a real desecration, tweeting a picture of him alive in treatment. For some reason that action I find nastier than some guy with a limited horizon and selfie.

We will never agree if it is appropriate for us fans to visit his grave, or not. Personalities and cultural difference is what makes Michael's fan base so incredibly diverse.

I also doubt that the official policy of Forest Lawn will be impacted much. Obviously he had access, so that denotes a problem within the realm of those with access, not something the fans are responsible for. And as much as I deplore Forest Lawn's shall we say, stunning floral policies (must order through the own flower shop, other flowers not deliverable), any clear thinking person in this instance would see it similarly - punishing fans, when it was a person with access who did, it makes no sense.
It's doubtful they'll even return to any 'you may not step on the terrace with the bench at all' policy. It's not as if there'd is someone standing guard 9-6.

But Forest Lawn is also something very intrinsic to Los Angeles, but that was something for the family to decide. Perhaps an island would have been the better choice since Forest Lawn to this day is the expression of 'if you are SOMEBODY in L.A. You must get buried there'.
But none of those are easy choices, or answers.

Pere Lachaise in Paris is similar, but in every case the anger is deserved by and reserved for the person who did it. Not everyone else who didn't do it.
 
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