Latest on MJJC

Do you want live vocals or playback?

Frankyboy5 said:
Like BOTDF from Munich 1997 was playback except the chorus where he sounded weak (that's another story but it just proves that the mic is recording all the time and he only sang chorus).
Click to expand...

It doesn't prove that.

GoFlying says IF MJ was singing then the mic would record. Michael Jackson was well versed in miming. I doubt he'd waste his time singing when his primary efforts were focussed on making it APPEAR as if he was singing. Anyway, I don't know how many times I've said that so I'll leave it there haha

I hate miming in concerts. I find it 'entirely' unacceptable. I'd take rough live vocals over miming any day. However I'm wary of having this Wembley concert edited with something other than what the 72,000 people that day experienced. If the crowd heard the studio vocal then this concert should be released with that I think.
 
StellaJackson said:
HIStory tour is never boring!!!
Click to expand...

Musically, it's very boring indeed. Visually, not so much but musically it is.

I mean, the songs sound almost exactly the same as they do on the albums, add to that the fact that he's lipsync'ing most of the show, and what you you get? Cloned versions of the songs that are on the albums, plus crowd noise. Boring as hell if you ask me!

I never really got why any artist would want their songs to sound exactly the same live as they do on the record. What's the point of that? If the songs sound exactly the same, why wound I want to go and listen to them live? I might as well put the record on and listen to it at home, cause it's essentially the same thing I'll be hearing.

But hey, that's just my opinion...
 
the reason he lipsynced (we can speculate) is either to save his voice, or because he found it hard to do the dance routines as well as sing...

now you may think it is an easier option to just lipsync. but its really not. especially when the band's instruments are live, as they were during TWYMMF and SC. (not MITM) they have to be played to a strict tempo, to make sure the vocals dont go ahead of the instruments etc... whereas if its all live, 1 or 2 bpm either side of the intended tempo wont even be noticeable... but it certainly would be noticed if the vocals are at a quicker tempo than the band who is playing live...

why would MJ go through all this trouble, (and more risk) if he was going to belt the lyrics out anyway? he wouldnt... therefore, he was not singing to his full potential. To save his voice... Therefore, he was probably mumbling, or mouthing, or whatever.

I'd like to see it as it was done on the night, if he used playback, then i'd love to see playback :)
 
T.N.A. said:
Musically, it's very boring indeed. Visually, not so much but musically it is.

I mean, the songs sound almost exactly the same as they do on the albums, add to that the fact that he's lipsync'ing most of the show, and what you you get? Cloned versions of the songs that are on the albums, plus crowd noise. Boring as hell if you ask me!

I never really got why any artist would want their songs to sound exactly the same live as they do on the record. What's the point of that? If the songs sound exactly the same, why wound I want to go and listen to them live? I might as well put the record on and listen to it at home, cause it's essentially the same thing I'll be hearing.

But hey, that's just my opinion...
Click to expand...

I'd take HWT Munich's instrumentation over Bucharest's any day. The live vocals are obviously amazing on that show, but it doesn't sound anywhere near as powerful as HWT Munich's instrumentation. It pisses me off that songs like Beat It are just the album version, It would have been cooler if he did the thing for MSG, and alter the vocals to make it sound like a recent recording, or maybe even live!
 
dam2040 said:
I'd take HWT Munich's instrumentation over Bucharest's any day. The live vocals are obviously amazing on that show, but it doesn't sound anywhere near as powerful as HWT Munich's instrumentation. It pisses me off that songs like Beat It are just the album version, It would have been cooler if he did the thing for MSG, and alter the vocals to make it sound like a recent recording, or maybe even live!
Click to expand...

HWT Munich's instrumental was edited in the studio as it was meant for a DVD release.
 
Actually, he lip synced during the HIStory Tour (and basically every performance after that) because of the problems you hear in the Royal Brunei concert.



If you ever read the reports that came out after his death, it stated that he had an issue with lung capacity, likely due to lupus. When your lung capacity is decreased, you can't sing well and dance at the same time. He had to get rid of one, and I doubt Michael even thought about cutting dancing in favor of singing.

Case in point: Michael's live mic while dancing during the HIStory Tour vs his singing during "I'll Be There."
 
Last edited:
History tour indeed was boring musically.
If you're gonna be all like HE HAD TO LIP SYNCH BECAUSE HE WAS DANCING, then what do you say to songs like You Are Not Alone, Earth Song, and Stranger In Moscow? That spin walk he kept doing wasn't that active.
Even the backup singers were lip synching. They could have at least just extracted MJ's main vocal, and let the backup singers actually do something.

It's so awesome when MJ does the last part of You Are Not Alone live. I with he had done the previous 4 minutes that way...

And a lot of the songs, the band was just miming or ever so slightly playing along.

Oh, and the Off The Wall medley was harrible! Seriously should have sang that live.
 
And if you're going to a stadium show, most people can't see you anyway, even with the jumotrons.
So it's even more important to sing live, in which everyones gonna hear.
The tour just felt lazy in a lot of ways.
 
When Michael would sing on the HIStory Tour on Wanna Be Startin Somethin, Jackson 5 Medley and parts of Billie Jean and Beat It, you can clearly tell that there's something not right with his voice. During the HIStory Tour Mike's voice sounded really rough and scratchy. So just by hearing him you could tell he was having problems with his voice around that time and if he did sing a full/most of a concert live then i think he would have completly blown his voice out.
 
I prefer live vocals any day... even if they are totally out of key. And believe me, I've been to some shows where the singers were totally out of key! But it was REAL, which is what I came to see and hear.
 
Here is my theory.

Around 1995-1996, Michael's lupus was flaring up and he was on medication to keep his symptoms at bay. Lupus medications often make the patient gain weight. When looking at pictures of Michael on the HIStory Tour in 1996, he is clearly heavier than the other tours. Not in an unhealthy way, but they do have that side effect.

Here's a picture of him doing TYWMMF in 1996. Excuse the, uh, gold pants.
The-Way-You-Make-Me-Feel-history-world-tour-1996-1997-19543324-347-480.jpg


Here's a picture of him in an equally form-fitting suit in 1992 during the Dangerous Tour.
2607806052_3.jpg


By the Royal Brunei concert, his lupus had already come back. Here is a picture of him in the same leotard in 1996:
Brunei_1996_UNIQUE_screen_shot_5.jpg

Clearly gained since 1992, not because he ate too much or worked out less, but because his lupus had come back.

Here is a shot of him during the HIStory Tour in Helsinki, 1997:
0.jpg

Baggy pants. Michael's thinner. His lupus has gone into remission and he no longer needs the medication, and therefore he loses the weight quickly. Why do I connect it to lupus?

As I said above, lupus causes lung issues and throat issues, which affects singing - especially while dancing. When his lupus went away, he lost weight and started to sing better. Helsinki is, in my opinion, the best show vocally in the entire tour.

The same can be applied to the rest of his life. During the 2000's his weight was similar to the 1996 HIStory Tour. He also lip-synced every performance during this time period, and whenever the mic was live, it sounded extremely rough. However, when This Is It rolled around, he was much thinner and his vocals were FANTASTIC.

Michael's talent never went away and he did not lose his vocal talent to age. His health betrayed him.
 
Last edited:
I certainly don't think History tour was boring but

Hunterr said:
Even the backup singers were lip synching.
They could have at least just extracted MJ's main vocal, and let the backup singers actually do something.
Click to expand...

This is something I'm wondering till this day. Why the backup singers didn't sing all of the songs?
There's gotta be something more than just MJ's lupus to explain that.

Edited. I meant all of the songs.
 
Last edited:
Well, they did sing on songs MJ did live vocals for.
But yes. It was a bit of laziness on the part of maybe the band leader or whoever was putting all that together.
There's no reason why they could have just used his main vocal, leaving the backup singers do what they were paid to do.
If not, why bother having 4 of them. Could have cut loose at least one of the guys :D

And I always thought it was weird he would sing WBSS on each tour live. That's arguably one of the hardest songs to sing live and sound good. And he could have re-recorded the Motown Medley as an adult to mime too, as well.

Anyhoo, not that it's a good comparison per-say, but Trent Reznor last Nine Inch Nails tour in particular had him doing shows back to back with only one day off in between (which was basically just there for travel time).
He managed to keep his voice together.
Granted, he's not doing choreography, but he still had to keep his voice in some sort of shape (and late 40s, might I add) and perform.

....
i don't know how anyone performs back to back shows. My throat hurts when I give it my physical all in the car blasting music. And I can't sing for shit
 
Oh, I like NIN, but Your'e right when you say that's not a good comparison.
It's extremely difficult to sing and dance at the same time. Probably a closer comparison could be Mick Jagger, is not that he dances but he can't stand sill a second :D
I understand that MJ had a lung condition but still doesn't explain that detail about the backup singers

And I always thought it was weird he would sing WBSS on each tour live. That's arguably one of the hardest songs to sing live and sound good.
Click to expand...
haha! Me too, I always said that was one of hardest numbers, it required singing and dancing like crazy :D
That's another unsolved mystery I guess :p
 
Lucilla said:
I certainly don't think History tour was boring but



This is something I'm wondering till this day. Why the backup singers didn't sing all of the songs?
There's gotta be something more than just MJ's lupus to explain that.

Edited. I meant all of the songs.
Click to expand...
That's very strange. Maybe it's just easier to mix all pre-recorded tracks rather than have some live and some playback? Many of the band members mimed their instruments too, especially the synth and bass. Jen Batten's solo in Beat It wasn't mimed.

I know Michael had a slight obsession with getting the "perfect" sound in anything he did. For example, when he composed the music for Sonic the Hedgehog 3, he pulled out of the project after realizing that the Sega Genesis couldn't reproduce his music the way he wanted it. Maybe he felt that since the music couldn't be reproduced perfectly live, he'd just rather play the album track?
 
i agree with those who said that something was wrong with his voice around the history tour. when you watch WBSS from munich you can hear it clearly. i always skip this song because its painful for me to listen, his voice sounds so sick, like he has a flu or sth :(
 
"Chasing boys was just a FAG!"

Live vocals near the end of the tour were kinda hit or miss. He got back from the flu he had during the Munich and Vienna concerts but something was wrong with his voice still. It occasionally cracked in concerts like Helsinki and Gothenburg (but in some ways it really adds to the effect). He was a little lazier but much smoother with his moves (see Copenhagen, Helsinki and Gothenburg).

DWT Buenos Aires "Promise f*** my ring" LOL

I think the background singers are only there for "effect". Occasionally they are heard singing, more often in the early first leg.

I think WBSS was live because he could demand its length. If stuff was all playback for this song we would end up with like TWYMMF "I GOTTA CUE THAT!"

Billie Jean HIStory is interesting because the background vocals are almost always playback and this acapella chorus is repeated until MJ cues for the string to put his hat on and start the drums. Only then is the instrumentation truly live.

the playback acapella is barebones but I think it has a little drum that goes underneath which the drummer plays along with for most of the song. it does have the little shaker sound (in Bucharest you can hear it lag as the playback started late, like an echo, there's the "shaker sound" played by the drummer live, followed by the one under playback).

Background vocals in the 1999 MJ and Friends concerts were live. He didn't sing live though and it was playback except the last line of Billie Jean (to which the soundboard failed in the first concert).

Another detail I found interesting is the background singers did not yell "ho!" in the Munich 1999 concert when MJ did the hop. (in Munich 97 he was sick to the extent he didn't feel like doing this move) Background singers were also present during the MSG concert (you can clearly hear background singers in YRMW) but they don't yell in Billie Jean.

Listen to the amateur 2nd concert of Billie Jean live at MSG carefully. He actually sang some of the second verse live. I thought maybe it's audience singing with him, but listening a few more times I believe it's his voice. (although there are different audience filmed versions, the voice can't be heard on some which means it might just be audience)

Final TV mix was pretty much full lead playback (with some new background vocals) until after moonwalk. (he tried singing the da-dah-no! after the moonwalk live at the second concert but it ended up cut and sounded bad). End dance drum appears to have been taken from the second concert with the beatboxing removed and the crowd sounds mixed a bit (to fit with the first concert footage primarily used)>
 
lololol
Yes, it does sound like that everytime. I just didn't see how that made sense to anything he was writing about in the post :D

Cannot be unheard now.
 
MJJLatvia said:
I did it in 5 mins lol. Included Munich 1997 and Buenos Aires 1993 cuz I love those gritty parts.
Click to expand...

Now I am not very good with technic and such, but I always thought it was difficult to mix like that and still make it sound good - and to have same volume throughout the song.

But if it's done in 5 mins - it was 5 mins well spend ! :lol:
 
Hess said:
Now I am not very good with technic and such, but I always thought it was difficult to mix like that and still make it sound good - and to have same volume throughout the song.

But if it's done in 5 mins - it was 5 mins well spend ! :lol:
Click to expand...

It's actually pretty noob job :lol: Because in a really good mix you can't hear edited/mixed parts. You can't notice them, you just hear it as whole. That's a good mixing if it fools you that it's the same performance/recording :)
 
lol yeah he does "just a fag" in both Gothenburg and Munich.

Another thing about Munich TV edit is in I Want You Back, "someone took you from the bunch" - the drum goes "POW" it sounds like a censor.

"someone ____ you from the bunch"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top