[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

In the very first page, the sixth paragraph talking about changing the definition of child care custodian by deleting the requirement for training

This?

Existing law under CANRA defines child care custodians, and
requires any such person, and other specified persons, to report an
instance of child abuse under specified circumstances.
The bill would change the definition of specified childcare
custodians by deleting the training requirement for instructional
aides, teacher's aides, or teacher's assistants in any public or
private school, as a condition of being a mandated reporter. The
bill would also delete administrators and supervisors of schools, day
camps, youth centers or programs, organizations, and agencies, as
specified, from the definition of a mandated reporter. By expanding
the definition of a mandated reporter, this bill would increase the
reporting duties of local officials and would impose a state-mandated
local program.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The CA Attorney General office said "if you suspect it, report it", they don't require any hard proof. With that definition any suspicion can be reported. I read a training document too. It says the main source of sexual abuse reports is the disclosure of the child or a friend. They also talk about some behavior such as being overly sexualized, bed wetting etc as possible signs of sexual abuse.







true you don't need to train them. The law even says not being trained isn't a reason to not report.

But pay attention to this part


Whether or not
employers provide their employees with training in child abuse and
neglect identification and reporting, the employers shall provide
their employees who are mandated reporters with the statement required pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 11166.5.

So it says you need to tell the employees who are mandated reporters that they are mandated reporters. If that don't happen there could still be negligence.

You are partially right. Training is irrelevant. However if these people were supposed to be mandated reporters and they weren't notified about it, it could still be negligence.

disclaimer: I don't believe they were mandated reporters.

true. But that was not the point I was trying to make by posting this article. The point was that the laws applicable to the events subject of the lawsuit are governed by the laws which were applicable at the time. Since 1993 many amendments were made to those laws in particular the code about reporting abuse, it is extremely incompetent on the part of wade lawyers to cite the current laws as legal basis for their new claims.

In 1993 in order for a company to be obliged to provide its employee with the form (the statement by mandated reporters), the employee must have been a "child care custodian", and in order for an administrator and employee of public or private organization to have been classified as a child care custodian, he should have met two conditions: 1- his duties require direct contact and supervision of children AND 2 he has been trained in duties imposed by the relevant article.

So if the employee duties did not require direct contact and supervision of children OR he was not trained in the duties imposed by the law, he would not have been a child care custodian, and thus the company did not have any obligation to give him the form ( statement).

They cannt argue that the lack of training was due to the companies incompetence, because even now employers are not required by law to provide training to employees of pulic or private organizations. The responsibility to seek training is on the employees themselves. And the laws did change in a way that eliminated the requirement to be trained in order to take a legal defense from those who see abuse but claim they did not report because they were not trained. The law only requires the employers to make sure to inform their employees of their duties and the consequences, but no requirement to training them at all, not in 1993 nor now.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This?

Yes. That is it. Go below and see how the full article looked with the suggested amendement.

This is a draft of a bill which was passed latter by the assembly of California. The legislators were suggesting amendments. This is how laws are passed and amended. Almost on annual basis there were amendments to the Child abuse reporting act. Unfortunately, there is no data base before 1994. But the suggested amendments in 1994 and thereafter give us a good picture of what were the enforceable laws at the time.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The attorney sent out a revised statement. It's posted above.

Of course they did LOL. They have been representing Wade for two months and understand so well why Robson didn't accuse MJ before 2012
that they have to revise their explanation. Too bad the original article was not archived. This could be yet another bullet against
Robson's credibility.

Michaels was one of Diane Dimond's recruits that Hard Copy paid. From Lisa Campbell's The King of Pop's Darkest Hour.

Don't you know whether she was fired or not?
In which years was she working on the ranch?


Nobody in the media wonders why MJ would build a place like Neverland and fill it with potential witnesses
if he wants to molest kids there and why he would molest them when security guards and maids
and cooks, everyone and their momma can just see it. All that while he is so concerned not to get caught that he installs an alarm
and multiple locks. No contradiction whatsoever.

If he had been a pedo the last thing he would have done is to create a place like Neverland.
He would have had an ordinary mansion with one room with games in it like Sandusky had it and that would
have been enough.

 

[barbee0715]

Of course they did LOL. They have been representing Wade for two months and understand so well why Robson didn't accuse MJ before 2012
that they have to revise their explanation. Too bad the original article was not archived. This could be yet another bullet against
Robson's credibility.

But I think Ivy got a screenshot of the before and after versions.

From Ivy:

The fact that he waited until decades after the alleged abuse took place – and three years after Jackson had died – has raised some eyebrows, but his lawyer says that Robson repressed the painful memories until 2012, after becoming a father to now 5½-year-son Koa.

remember this article from yesterday. They changed it


Celebrity choreographer Wade Robson recently amended his 2013 legal claim that he was sexually abused by Michael Jackson with the startling allegation that the artist operated the "most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization the world has known."

The fact that he waited until decades after the alleged abuse took place – and three years after Jackson had died – has raised some eyebrows, but his lawyer says that Robson began to reflect upon the memories of the abuse he always had and saw them in a different light after becoming a father to now 5½-year-son Koa.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wade has mess up again. Wade and his lawyers are trying so hard to make Wade claim fix the laws but it is not working at all. Michael own his companies plane and simply.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My understanding of the mandated reporter is that it applies to organizations where a license or regulations are required. When I looked the laws that apply to the employer, they were part of administration laws for specific organizations such as schools, colleges, day cares, hospitals etc. This must be the reason why Wade's lawyers kept referring to the companies as a school and a day care. The law is not about every kind of organization and they know it.

For instance:
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=EDC&sectionNum=44252.

With so many children working in show business it would make the entire music and film industry mandated reporters and we all know that it's not true. Are there any precedents for this?

 

[Goddess4Real]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

'The idea that I would make all of this up and put myself, my wife, my son, my entire family through this extremely stressful and painful experience all for money is incomprehensible,' he said.
'I've lived in silence and denial for 22 years and I can't spend another moment in that.'
'I'm never going to go away with this for the sake of money. I'm never going to be silenced for money. That's not going to happen.

Oh please if it meant getting hundreds millions of dollars that would set him and his family up for the rest of their lives, he would do it. Like I said desperate people do desperate things all the time.....like leaking info to the tabloids in exchange for PR and $$$$$$$$$$ for example. What Robson is doing is just downright evil......anything for Money!

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh please if it meant getting hundreds millions of dollars that would set him and his family up for the rest of their lives, he would do it. Like I said desperate people do desperate things all the time.....like leaking info to the tabloids in exchange for PR and $$$$$$$$$$ for example. What Robson is doing is just downright evil......anything for Money!

People ROB banks at gun point and KILL people for smaller amounts (HUNDRED of dollars) even though it is going to embarrassed their families, going to prison, getting negative press, spend out money for a defense, etc. So someone like Wade will LIE to try to get MILLIONS and his family go along with it if that means they will be set up for life. look at the Chandlers.

 

[Goddess4Real]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some">@andjustice4some</a> I think something did happen to him, and it happened among his family or friends. It's a shame. But it wasn't MJ</p>&mdash; Showbiz 411 (@showbiz411) <a href="https://twitter.com/showbiz411/status/777655624184238085">September 18, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some">@andjustice4some</a> his dad&#39;s mental health issues and the family&#39;s eagerness to get out of AUS as quickly as possible really makes me think</p>&mdash; Cydney Tanner (@cydtanner) <a href="https://twitter.com/cydtanner/status/777663502798426112">September 19, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I seriously had never thought of this until now. Either way though, shame on WR for blaming this on MJ. <a href="https://t.co/cqYkIjmmE4">https://t.co/cqYkIjmmE4</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4MJ (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/777664546857115648">September 19, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[passy001]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some">@andjustice4some</a> I think something did happen to him, and it happened among his family or friends. It's a shame. But it wasn't MJ</p>&mdash; Showbiz 411 (@showbiz411) <a href="https://twitter.com/showbiz411/status/777655624184238085">September 18, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some">@andjustice4some</a> his dad's mental health issues and the family's eagerness to get out of AUS as quickly as possible really makes me think</p>&mdash; Cydney Tanner (@cydtanner) <a href="https://twitter.com/cydtanner/status/777663502798426112">September 19, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I seriously had never thought of this until now. Either way though, shame on WR for blaming this on MJ. <a href="https://t.co/cqYkIjmmE4">https://t.co/cqYkIjmmE4</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4MJ (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/777664546857115648">September 19, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Whatever. Either way this is a lame money grab operation.

 

[Goddess4Real]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't like Friedman either......but its an interesting alternative theory as to why Robson is after MJ's $$$$$$$$$

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't think the way to defend MJ is to baselessly accuse others of molesting him (ie. his dead father). I personally don't think he was molested at all. Why should he have been to be able to pull this money grab? You don't have to be molested to claim to be molested. He is simply an amoral, possibly sociopathic person who intends to solve his financing for the rest of his life this way. That's all. It is about money, not about him being molested by anyone. It is also no rocket science to build an abuse story - all he has to do is to read some articles, books, websites, listen to real victims and put together a story from those elements. Which he did, as we know. There is possibly also a grudge/bitterness factor because he needs a scapegoat for the fact he couldn't fulfill MJ's "prophecy" so he blames MJ, instead of just admitting he simply didn't have it and that's life.

Talking about the "prophecy" - I just notice it is completely missing from this new complaint. His lawyers must have realized it was a giveaway as to some of his real issues.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Lawyers are hoping mjs lawyers and the judge dont realise the B.S they are trying to pull by quoting the wrong laws. Mentioning schools etc. hope the estate lawyers are on the ball over this

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Who remembers when the judge congratulated both parties on the level of lawyering in this case. I am sure he is going to miss the previous lawyers when he puts his eyes on the claims of the new ones. As many of you suggested, it is becoming clearer day after day that they did pull a school case and only added Mj and his companies to it. This mistake about laws that were not enforceable in 1993 is huge one. I am sure the judge would be very astonished at the degree of incompetency their latest filing shows.

I was really worried about their track record. But after reading the document itself, and your great input, it does seem to me they are much less capable than the previous lawyers.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Lawyers are hoping mjs lawyers and the judge dont realise the B.S they are trying to pull by quoting the wrong laws. Mentioning schools etc. hope the estate lawyers are on the ball over this

I'm with you on this. These new lawyers are more like tabloid junkies. Seems like they're scouring them and making up fiction worse than you'd find in them. But one thing I have learned, they have to be taken very seriously despite the absurdity. The estate must stay on top of this. There is so much legitimate evidence out there to counter what Robson is claiming, especially since Robson himself has provided it, no way should they lose this thing. But they have to be vigilant every step of the way. They just have to be.

 

[myosotis]

My understanding of the mandated reporter is that it applies to organizations where a license or regulations are required. When I looked the laws that apply to the employer, they were part of administration laws for specific organizations such as schools, colleges, day cares, hospitals etc. This must be the reason why Wade's lawyers kept referring to the companies as a school and a day care. The law is not about every kind of organization and they know it.

For instance:
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=EDC§ionNum=44252.


With so many children working in show business it would make the entire music and film industry mandated reporters and we all know that it's not true. Are there any precedents for this?

With regard to Neverland, MJJP and MJJV, you would think that any issue of compliance with CANRA (Child Abuse and Neglect Reporting Act) would have been raised in 1993, and that all three would at least be compliant with any employers' requirements after that......

As regards this new law firm referring to modern legislation with regard to alleged historical abuse...surely all their successful settlements don't involve comparison with modern legislation? I'm surprised they would make this mistake if they have been 'successful' with previous historical cases

 

[HIStory]

Joy Robson 2005 (This is when Sneddon asks her. The previous similar part was when Mez asked her.)

9 Q. And the time that you met Mr. Jackson in

10 Australia was in connection with your son winning a

11 dance contest?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And the occasion of you meeting Mr. Jackson

14 was you were brought behind the stage with a lot of

15 other people who were back there; is that right?

16 A. It was a meet-and-greet situation, yes.

17 Q. There wasn&#8217;t a lot of substance to it?

18 A. No, it was just, &#8220;How are you? It&#8217;s a

19 pleasure to meet you,&#8221; type of thing.

20 Q. Okay. And then the next time that you meet

21 Mr. Jackson is when you come to the United States in

22 January of 1990, correct?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And when you came here, there were no

25 arrangements when you first came here to meet with

26 Mr. Jackson?

27 A. No.

28 Q. And it was as a result of you making contact 9219

1 with Norma Stakos that you were able to make contact

2 with Mr. Jackson, correct?

3 A. Yes.

vs now

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Talking about the "prophecy" - I just notice it is completely missing from this new complaint. His lawyers must have realized it was a giveaway as to some of his real issues.

I think I saw it in the beginning. Mentioning Steven Spielberg. and how MJ prophesied he will become as big as Spielberg. It was once though.

Who remembers when the judge congratulated both parties on the level of lawyering in this case.

I personally think he was just being nice. Sure this document looks worse than others but I don't think the previous ones were that good either.

I was really worried about their track record.

although they present themselves as child abuse lawyers with millions of dollars in settlement wins - and it is true - I don't think it's that relevant. The school/church cases are much more slam dunk - especially if you know the history of how the church especially did nothing and even hid the abuse. Plus churches and schools prefer to settle. So getting a settlement from a defendant who is willing to settle in a slam dunk case isn't that impressive.

As regards this new law firm referring to modern legislation with regard to alleged historical abuse...surely all their successful settlements don't involve comparison with modern legislation? I'm surprised they would make this mistake if they have been 'successful' with previous historical cases

I don't think they needed to do a mandated reporter argument before, at least not this kind. They brought mandated reporters to claim negligence on the companies part. When you think about schools and priests, they are mandated reporters from almost the start - 1985. There is no question in that regard about whether they are mandated reporters or not. They are. So it's again very straightforward. If they weren't notified they were mandated reporters, negligence. If they knew they are mandated reporters but did not report, negligence.

Plus for schools and churches I believe even a simple negligent hiring, supervision and retention claim will work. It doesn't have to be a specific sexual abuse claim. Priests/teachers are hired and controlled by the churches/schools. Again pretty straightforward. If the priests / teachers were behaving inappropriately in any regard , it would be on churches/schools to supervise and fire them. If they didn't, negligence.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

To clarify even further.

There are several things in dispute in this case

- Could Companies control MJ?
- Did the companies have a duty of care towards the kids?
- Could the Companies knew or should have known the abuse?

Plus when Robson/Safechuck realized the alleged abuse.

The church/school cases don't have these disputes. Making them more straightforward and in my opinion more easier to win.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ Nor do most church/school cases have their alleged victims and their family members under oath in a criminal trial saying the complete opposite as what they are claiming against them.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This is getting crazy now their want to call the companies a school. I hope the Estate and the judge are up on the laws. I work in the schools system for 31 years before i retire. These laws have nothing to do with Wade case.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Bumped into this old video today. Listen from 8:20. Interesting that he talks about this thing that you have to visualize what you want to be. I wonder if he used this visualization technique to visualize himself into this new "victim" persona and how many times he visualized the graphic details he made up about it.

 

[myosotis]

In the UK, the lawyer son of MP Greville Janner is appparently considering taking action against the man who made allegations against his father. A claimant called 'Nick' made a series of allegations about a paedophile ring involving several senior UK politicians and other leading figures. After 17 months and £1.8 million, a wide-ranging police investigation has found nothing to support the claims. There is a current official enquiry into the handling of the investigation. Both Janner's son and one of the accused (several others are now deceased) has said that the author of the enquiry should call for Nick's prosecution. Janner's son has said if the enquiry does not take action, then he will consider launching a private prosecution against Nick for 'perverting the course of justice'. He went on to say 'The unfounded allegations against my father and others made by Nick had a devastating effect on their lives, their families and their reputations forever'.

I think it is time that those who make unfounded public allegations should be made to face penalties equal to the damage they inflict.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I agree..Allegations like that can and does ruin lives, reputations and families. If the person is really and truly innocent then of course it can wreak havoc on one's mental and emotional state as well.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You know what guys, you are the real researchers and almost like lawyers, the MJ defense team, but we should not underestimate the Wades lawyers, but the Estate lawyers have to be aware of you, of this forum and this thread where there are almost all pieces of evidence, the more MJ fans are involed in the research, the better for the Estate it would be to defend MJ, cos here are tens of fans, especially those few who have got really factual info and evidence about these BS claims and accusations.
You are like a separated team of defense, but you have to be heard, at least the Estate lawyers should know about you and your evidence.
If the judge relied on you, the case would be thrown away already.

Again, The Estate lawyers have to know about this THREAD and all the factual info aka evidence here. The lawyers havent to know about all the pieces of evidence you have posted here, they can miss something, they havent to have an idea about WRs videos, previous claims or testimony, interviews, there are many news reports before 2012, the contradictions and details, the books about the cases - 1993/2003 (Chandler, DD and co.), the players of the dirty game, and so on like its presented here.

The forum should not be only for US, and we should not discuss only one another about the cases, we are not the judges, but you have got the powerfull evidence, you/we are like a jury team knowing about almost everything relevant.

MJJC has to contact the MJ online team, or the Estate, and let them know about this thread and evidence.

My only concern is that the Estate lawers can miss something, and that something will be unnoticed (from) here.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thank you Respect 77 for that video this is a Set Up Wade knew exactly what he was doing and how he was going to do it. It is just very odd that Wade mother Joy is not saying anything about it i am begin to believe she is apart of this it was mention in this thread that maybe somebody in Wade family did something to him and now he is blame Michael for it. That why he change his lawyers because he want a lawyer that can get him the settlement that he want from the Estate that why he has change his claim or add to it. Wade lawyers are trying to change the law to fit Wade case so their are lying and i pray that the Estate and the judge catch it like we did. like i have said before if Michael was here you would not see this.



Wade lawyers need to be bar.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Respect 77 you could be right sound like what he did and now it is real to him and now his blaming Michael.

 

[Goddess4Real]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Or Robson is blaming MJ for his career decline because he testified in the trial, so along with not getting the Cirque du Soleil gig, he feels ripped off, and now wants pay back. I remember Tmez saying that some celebs who were MJ's friends wouldn't support him publicaly, because they believed it would hurt their careers, so I think this theory too might also explain the thought process behind this bogus lawsuit.

 

[8701girl]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Someone put a post on Facebook bout
some other "unknown victim" appearately making a book or coming out , it's on Amazon....does anyone know bout this?