[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And some people wonder why MJ did so many Anti Tabloid songs? F the press!
And some question why Michael settled the case in 93 when this kind of junk was being launched at him left right and center every day and every night. I know, bad decision in hindsight, but I would have done the same dam thing.
 
Well even Zonen sounds better than Radar - http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,21014407,00.html

Michael Jackson's Estate Blasts New Pornography Reports as Sheriff and Former Prosecutor Weigh In

BY CHRISTINE PELISEK 06/22/2016 AT 05:30 PM EDT
Seven years after his death, Michael Jackson is in the news again, this time over reports that claim he kept a stockpile of pornography at his Neverland Ranch.

On Tuesday, Radar Online released documents, including photographs that were purportedly from the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Office's investigation of the pop star back in 2005. The items detailed in the article were described as evidence of Jackson's penchant for adult and child pornography.

"Everything in these reports, including what the County of Santa Barbara calls 'content that appears to be obtained off the Internet or through unknown sources' is false," Jackson's estate said in a statement to the Los Angeles Times. The statement claims the new reports are "No doubt timed to the anniversary of Michael's passing."


Jackson's reported affiliation with pornography first came to light at his 2005 molestation trial in Santa Monica, CA. when Jackson's accuser claimed he searched internet porn sites with the pop star.

A jury later found him not guilty of four charges of child molesting, one charge of attempted child molesting, one conspiracy charge and eight possible counts of providing alcohol to minors.

Addressing this week's reports, Kelly Hoover, a spokeswoman for the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office tells PEOPLE that while some of the reportedly unearthed documents appear to be valid, others do not.

"Some of the documents appear to be copies of reports that were authored by Sheriff's Office personnel as well as evidentiary photographs taken by Sheriff's Office personnel interspersed with content that appears to be obtained off the internet or through unknown sources. The photos that are interspersed appear to be some evidentiary photos taken by Sheriff's investigators and others are clearly obtained from the internet."

Hoover said that the police department did not release any of the photographs or reports to the press.

Former Santa Barbara Senior Assistant District Attorney Ron Zonen, who helped prosecute Jackson and recalls viewing the actual documents tied to the case, tells PEOPLE that law enforcement did discover adult pornographic magazines and videos, though nothing constituting child pornography.

"There were all kinds of conventional porn magazines," says Zonen. "Things like Playboy, Penthouse. There was one called Barely Legal. It was a publication that featured young women presumably over the age of 18 but selected because they look much younger."

Law enforcement also discovered a book of "masochistic" type drawings.

When it comes to items relating to children, "There were photos of nude children but they weren't sexually graphic," he says. "They weren't children engaged in sexual activity and there was no child pornography. There were no videos involving children. There were videos that were seized but they were conventional adult sexually graphic material. No children involved."

Specifically, the nude images of children he says, showed children "playing in the stream, climbing trees, nature photographs, nudist colonies, things like that," he said. "They came from professional publications. Were they designed for pedophiles or designed as artistic photographic books I can't comment on that."


Jackson died at the age of 50 in 2009 of a drug overdose of the powerful anesthetic propofol. His former cardiologist, Conrad Murray, was convicted in 2011 of causing his death.

The statement from Jackson's estate continues: "Those who continue to shamelessly exploit Michael via sleazy internet 'click bait' ignore that he was acquitted by a jury in 2005 on every one of the 14 salacious charges brought against him in a failed witch hunt.”
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It should be absolutely illegal what Radar did/is doing. There was no child pornography and it should not be legal to make that claim off of what was actually at NEVERLAND...
 
Re: Why is all this bad stuff coming out about MJ again ?

People suck. I try not to care though...but I do. I know in my heart what's true and if those weirdos don't want to believe it, then that's them. I will not waste my time trying to convince people with facts because they will not hear it. It's weird right? People want Michael to be a you-know-what so bad and some will even joke about it. Like wtf. Even When I was younger and just learning about Michael, seeing all those lies still didn't make me believe that stuff.
I can't believe Michael had to deal with this crap while he was alive....
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thanks, I admit to feeling rather concerned yesterday when something I read told me otherwise.

Should've known better!

You don't ever have to be worried about that because there is nothing to be found. If there were they would have found it a long time ago.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I am glad Zonen made this comment, we can use this with people who are sceptical about anything we say. Of course, Zonen is still trying to imply things (I have seen the Barely Legals - the women in them do not look much younger, they look exactly like the 18-23 year olds that they are) but it is still usable.

But I wonder what happened? In some of those tabloid articles he is quoted as if he is supporting this horrific narrative of RadarOnline. Either tabloids twisted his words or someone threatened him with a lawsuit. :p
 
maja;4153146 said:
It's not trash. It's a good article. :) Thanks for posting!!

pminton;4153156 said:
I agree too it is a good article i just read it.:)

Have we really set the bar so low that a trash piece like this is considered a "good article" about MJ? Granted, it doesn't mention secret sex closets or animal torture but the fact that it sounds so 'reasonable' makes it arguably even worse. It can easily trick people (and apparently even some fans) into thinking that it's being fair and objective when it's really just the same old tabloid rubbish.

Let me break it down:

More than a decade ago, Michael Jackson was interviewed by Martin Bashir for thedocumentary “Living With Michael Jackson,” and admitted to sleeping in the same bed with other people’s children.

Michael didn't "admit" to anything as this implies he did something wrong and he didn't say he slept in the same bed with other people's children. He said a child can sleep in his bed if it wants, he would give his bed to the child and he would sleep on the floor. This opening sentence tries to make a connection between Michael's "admission" in LWMJ and the police investigation, whereas to my knowledge Michael never said he slept in the same bed as Gavin.

In December 2003, he was charged with seven counts of child molestation and two counts of administering an intoxicating agent for the purpose of committing a felony. The charges came after police raided his Neverland Ranch estate and seized more than 80 video recordings and computer hard drives, as well as notes, diaries, documents, photographs and audiotapes.

Most casual readers would take this to mean the seized materials were incriminating enough for the police to file charges.

On Tuesday, RadarOnline released a previously unseen police report from the raid on Jackson’s Santa Barbara estate, detailing the singer’s large collection of pornography and images of nude children.

The police report is not previously unseen, it's been public record for years. Michael did not have a large collection of pornography (compared to the thousands of books he owned, plus the pornography was collected over many years) and there were no images of nude children - certainly not in a pornographic sense, which is what the article is trying to imply by putting these in the same sentence.

The police report obtained by RadarOnline is legit.

Well, that's a bit misleading isn't it? The Santa Barbara Sherrif's Office said the report includes material that was clearly taken from the internet. Besides, at no point does the article point out that this is only the prosecution's side of the story and shouldn't be taken as fact. Even if the police report as published by RO were legit, that doesn't make it true.

Police state in the report that images found at Neverland Ranch didn’t meet the “legal requirements” to be considered “child pornography.” Police found nude photos of children, as well as photos of children in various states of undress.The images may not be pornographic, but context is key. The police report repeatedly states that the materials found in Jackson’s home “can be used as part of a ‘grooming’ process by which people (those seeking to molest children) are able to lower the inhibitions of their intended victims and facilitate the molestation of said victims.”

Again highly misleading. What they're calling "children in various states of undress" were for example images in an art photography book of kids playing on the beach in their bathing suits. And Michael was an avid collector of art photography in general, not just pertaining to kids. It was mentioned earlier that he loved glamour photos of 1930s Hollywood.

During the trial, prosecutors presented evidence claiming that fingerprints belonging to Jackson, his 13-year-old accuser and the accuser’s younger brother were found on porn magazines seized from Jackson’s home. At the time, CNN reported that 12 prints from Jackson were found on eight different magazines, five prints from his accuser were found on three magazines, and two prints from the accuser’s younger brother were found on a single magazine. The fingerprint evidence was important because it supported the accuser’s testimony that Jackson had shown him pornography.

No it doesn't. All it supports is that both Gavin and MJ had read those magazines at one point. And we know from their own testimony (and witness testimony) that they were in MJ's room without MJ being present many times so they could have easily found those magazines themselves. And wasn't it the case that the prosecution showed Gavin a specific issue of Playboy (or some other porn mag) and Gavin insisted that this was the one MJ showed him, when in fact that issue was only released when Gavin had already left Neverland?

Jackson’s accuser testified that the singer put his hands down his pants and touched him. The teen testified that while he was staying at Neverland Ranch, he and his brother slept with Jackson in his bed. He also said that Jackson showed him pornography and gave him rum, vodka, whisky and wine to drink.
The accuser’s testimony was called into question by the defense, who was able to get him to admit that he told a teacher at his school that Jackson did not touch him. He later explained that he only said that Jackson didn’t touch him because he was being bullied. “All the kids were already making fun of me at the school and I didn’t want anyone to think it had really happened,” he said.

Notice how they spend a lot of time detailing the allegations, then giving one sentence to the defense and then immediately follow up with the rebuttal to the defense from the accuser. Yeah, not biased at all :smilerolleyes: And the inconsistency with the teacher's comment is only a tiny part of how the accuser's testimony was called into question. They don't mention the changing timelines, constant contradictions of themselves and each other, implausible statements like being held hostage at Neverland and potential kidnapping to Brazil in a hot air balloon, shady history, etc. There is so much they could have mentioned but they went with the accuser not telling his teacher about the abuse.

The police report details Jackson’s large collection of pornography, as well as numerous pictures of nude and semi-clothed children. Some of these images were found in photography books, including Cronos by Pere Formiguera, which again, the police report notes does not meet the legal requirements to be considered child pornography, but can be used to “groom” potential victims.

Again, this is just rehashing the prosecution's narrative.

The book Room to Play by Simen Johan, which features sexualized images of children whose faces have been superimposed on adult bodies, was again viewed in this context. Authorities also found numerous photos of children located inside a safe in the employee break room of Jackson’s home.
All of this was submitted as evidence in 2005, but prosecutors focused on Jackson’s commercial pornography collection — not that it helped their case.

It wasn't either or. The prosecution was desperate to try the child porn angle but it didn't work because there was simply nothing incriminating there.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

People's gullibility and stupidity never ceases to amaze me. Possession of child porn is considered a federal crime, Michael was never charged with it and if the police had found such material, he would have been convicted. PERIOD!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Zonen had to change statement bc they look bad for not charging for child porn.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

People's gullibility and stupidity never ceases to amaze me. Possession of child porn is considered a federal crime, Michael was never charged with it and if the police had found such material, he would have been convicted. PERIOD!

Yes, and for some reason none of the "journalists" copy-pasting this tabloid trash question why such a bombshell is suddenly revealed right before June 25? I don't understand that. Do they actually believe that the prosecution had evidence of MJ owning child porn and animal torture materials but just decided to let it slide? If they believe this is actual 'previously unseen footage' why aren't they looking into who leaked it to the press? Surely that would be a huge scandal, that the prosecution withheld such damning evidence of MJ's guilt?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And some people wonder why MJ did so many Anti Tabloid songs? F the press!

Now that is so true that why MJ did it. From day one Wade and James never had any proof and now this only confirm it. these cases should have been dismiss a long time ago they never should have gotting this far.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Linda I agree with you 99.9 percent.. We have to admit that Michael has admitted to sleeping in the bed with children.. In LWMJ he denies sleeping in the bed with Gavin but admits to sleeping in the bed with children... NOT that it is a big deal to me, or does not say anything regarding molestation in my eyes... I've slept in the bed with adults when I was a kid..
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Zonen had to change statement bc they look bad for not charging for child porn.

Yes, that's a good point. A lot of people were outraged that "all this child porn evidence only comes out now", thinking this is something that the prosecution somehow hid or they didn't do their job with it.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

These articles are just getting worse and worse, writing flat out lies and not just manipulating evidence. An excerpt from the Daily Mail:

Jordan however was able to perfectly describe Jackson's buttocks, pubic hair and distinctive marks on both his testicles and penis.

This is just 100% not true yet they are printing it as if it's gospel and not even referring to a reputable source to back up their claims.

For one, how on earth do you even 'perfectly describe' someone's buttocks and pubic hair... this is beyond me.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Linda I agree with you 99.9 percent.. We have to admit that Michael has admitted to sleeping in the bed with children.. In LWMJ he denies sleeping in the bed with Gavin but admits to sleeping in the bed with children... NOT that it is a big deal to me, or does not say anything regarding molestation in my eyes... I've slept in the bed with adults when I was a kid..

I'm talking specifically about LWMJ here because the article is trying to link this to the later allegations. From what I can remember, Michael told Bashir "What's wrong with sharing your bed? I didn't say I sleep in the bed. I give the bed to the child. I'll sleep on the floor." So he was not "admitting" to anything there.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

These articles are just getting worse and worse, writing flat out lies and not just manipulating evidence. An excerpt from the Daily Mail:



This is just 100% not true yet they are printing it as if it's gospel and not even referring to a reputable source to back up their claims.

For one, how on earth do you even 'perfectly describe' someone's buttocks and pubic hair... this is beyond me.

The Daily Mail is complete gutter trash. It's probably the worst tabloid out there. But millions of people read it. -_-
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

All this stuff just makes me think that, though Michael's passing was a tragic loss, I don't know if he could have endured all these lies resurfacing once more... in his lifetime he had already battled two child molestation cases and they crippled his emotional well-being. He was too good for this world.
 
Re: Why is all this bad stuff coming out about MJ again ?

Wade Robson and his lawyers are trying to win their case in the court of public opinion.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Not everyone is a sheep. Chin up MJ fans. This will blow over. We an army and we won't be broken in our love and support of this wonderful human being they called Michael Jackson.

"Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons."
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

yeah in LWMJ he said he sleeps in the bed with children.. in last interview with the purple shirt.. he says something like "But I've slept in the bed with many children, I sleep in the bed with all of em.." He did 100% say he did NOT sleep in the bed with Gavin though
 
More refutations are starting to come out now. Mez apparently talked to USA Today.

<section id="module-position-PIdA2yczBos" class="storytopbar-bucket story-headline-module story-story-headline-module">[h=1]Is Michael Jackson on trial in court of public opinion years after death?[/h]</section><section id="module-position-PIdA2yeHfrQ" class="storytopbar-bucket priority-asset-module story-priority-asset-module"></section><section id="module-position-PIdA2yep5Sw" class="storytopbar-bucket story-byline-module story-story-byline-module"> Maria Puente, USA TODAY 6:58 p.m. EDT June 22, 2016

The seventh anniversary of Michael Jackson's death is Saturday, and for his family and fans, it could have been a time for happy reminiscences about his life and career. Not anymore.


New biographies are landing, and a new TV series about the last months of his life is planned. But that's not what made headlines Wednesday.
Instead, Jackson's supporters, including daughter Paris, 18, were fuming about the re-emergence in the online tabloid Radar of material found by police in a 2003 search of his Neverland Ranch in Santa Barbara County and used at his trial on child-molestation charges in 2005.
Jackson was acquitted on 14 felony and misdemeanor charges. But for some, that wasn't the end of the matter, nor was his death from a drug overdose in 2009 at age 50.


"It's a smear campaign," says Tavis Smiley, author of a new biography of Jackson.
"The fans think someone is attempting to retry him once again in the court of public opinion. My conclusion: Michael didn&#8217;t live in peace, he didn't die in peace and apparently they're not going to let him rest in peace," Smiley says.


Radar said its review of the police reports, photos and videos showed Neverland was a "sinister house of horrors" where Jackson allegedly stockpiled "images of pornography, animal torture, S&M and gore in a bid to seduce innocent young boys."


The Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Office released a statement denying it had anything to do with releasing the material to the media. The statement said some of the documents appear to be legitimate sheriff's documents but not all.


The Santa Barbara County District Attorney's office did not return calls requesting comment about who released the material or whether it is investigating.



Radar quoted a former prosecutor at Jackson's trial, Ron Zonen, as saying the material proved to him "that Michael was guilty of child molestation,&#8221; even though the jury disagreed. Zonen could not be reached for further comment.


Not true, says Jackson's trial lawyer, Thomas Mesereau, who says prosecutors at Jackson's trial "got their (expletive) kicked." Mesereau says he saw all this material at the trial as Jackson's defender, and so did the jury.


"This is a complete waste of time. It was all litigated in 2005," Mesereau says. "It's dated, outrageous and ridiculous information, and it was completely rejected by a jury 11 years ago."


The Jackson estate issued a statement decrying the Radar story as "false."



"Those who continue to shamelessly exploit Michael via sleazy internet "click bait" ignore that he was acquitted by a jury in 2005 on every one of the 14 salacious charges brought against him in a failed witch hunt," the statement said. "Michael remains just as innocent of these smears in death as he was in life even though he isn't here to defend himself. Enough is enough."


Jermaine Jackson, Michael's brother, and Taj Jackson, son of Michael's brother Tito, let loose a torrent of tweets Wednesday condemning Radar ("low-life," "idiots," "imbeciles"), assailing the police "sloppy face-value" case, and marshaling "facts" to disprove the accusations against his brother, such as the judge's assertion that no pornography was ever found and an FBI file on Jackson that supported his innocence.


"In death, Michael still suffers trial by media but his exoneration is enshrined in court transcripts 'journalists' are too lazy to read," Jermaine Jackson tweeted.


Taj Jackson condemned "cyberbullying" and called for a hashtag campaign.
Aphrodite Jones, host of Investigation Discovery&#8217;s True Crime with Aphrodite Jones, says she has also seen most of this material, as a journalist who covered the trial (for Fox News) and because afterward she got a court order to look at the evidence used at the trial. There was no pornography, she said.

Is such incriminating evidence existed, she said, prosecutors would have presented it at the trial.


"The 'crime' here is that Michael Jackson's reputation is being further sullied by people going haywire, making it into something extreme, when he was acquitted, he's dead in his grave and he has children who survive and have to suffer the repercussions of this," says Jones, who started out believing the accusations against Jackson but became convinced at the trial that he was innocent. She wrote a book, Michael Jackson Conspiracy, in 2007 to show why the jury acquitted him.

All this has come up as new biographies of Jackson, timed to the anniversary, have landed, including Smiley's Before You Judge Me: The Triumph and Tragedy of Michael Jackson&#8217;s Last Days (Little, Brown), with co-author David Ritz. Smiley also has teamed with A-list director J.J. Abrams to produce a new mini-series on Jackson's final days, based on the book.


Another book, 83 MINUTES The Doctor, the Damage, and the Shocking Death of Michael Jackson, by Matt Richards and Mark Langthorne (Thomas Dunne Books), looks at the last hour of his life after he slipped into unconsciousness.


Smiley says the Radar story won't change minds about Jackson's guilt or innocence.


"If you think Michael Jackson did it, your point of view is still the same, and if you think he didn't, your point of view is still the same," Smiley says. "Michael's fans didn&#8217;t trust (prosecutors and investigators) then, and they don't trust them now."


Still, the Radar story left some questions unanswered: Who gave Radar the files and documents on the Neverland raid? Was it released as a routine matter of public record? If so, can anyone see this material? If it was leaked, was that legal, and is there a leak investigation?




</section>

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...rt-public-opinion-years-after-death/86249956/

Good that they are asking those questions in the last paragraph. Hopefully scumbag Robson and his equally scumbag lawyers will get exposed for dirty tactics.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Shady Music Facts ?@MusicFactsShady

We're sorry #MJFam for taking that article from the Daily Mail earlier without doing further research.
1f622.png
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I mean I remember seeing portions of books on the news back when the trial was going.. They simply checked out the books themselves (news) by seeing the title of the books..
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Shady Music Facts ?@MusicFactsShady

We're sorry #MJFam for taking that article from the Daily Mail earlier without doing further research.
1f622.png

LOL, shady music facts is a mess anyway.
They act as if their apology matters.
I hope that their Twitter account gets permanently deactivated sometime in the near future.
 
Re: Why is all this bad stuff coming out about MJ again ?

Everytime I see such tabloid stories printed about him I want to jump to his defence, to have his back. It's so painful to see all the hate, all the injustice, and to know that he cannot defend himself anymore, and that it must have caused him pain. My friend keeps telling me there is no point in trying to argue with these people, trying to make them see the truth. And he is probably right. The thing is that some people can only ever see their own uglyness reflected back at them, and that is why they are so full of hate.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

USA Today article was very good
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm looking forward to seeing which 'news' websites circulate this trash but then write an article on his death anniversary commemorating him for his lifetime of achievements. :rolleyes2:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

While the HuffPost article was not the greatest, it is certainly better than the copy and paste job they had done yesterday!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Why do these articles also put 'BDSM' along with 'child porn' as if they are the same in any way? And then call MJ 'depraved' for possessing such material... even if he did or didn't, there are huge BDSM communities found all over the internet and no one is shamed for it there. They twist anything about MJ to make him seem like some kind of sexual deviant. It sickens me.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Its on twitter .....ill try anf copy the link and paste it on here
 
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