[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes there was a grand jury in 2003 . That's how Sneddon changed the charges. The grand jury hears only the prosecution side. Geragos at the time sent Sneddon exonerating evidence, Sneddon being the "objective" prosecutor he was did not use what Geragos sent to impeach the Arvizo, instead he pushed the timeline to fit with the new evidence . The jurors were very "moved" by the "victims" testimony , before they returned the indictment , they prayed and held each other hands. :smilerolleyes:

Yeah really. Any other prosecutor presented with this kind of evidence would strongly question the family's allegations and reconsider going forward with the case. But in Sneddon's case, he would change things around to make it stick. This is why I say this case wasn't about obtaining justice or saving victims. It was about taking down the world's most famous celebrity and making a name for themselves. These people loved the idea of being involved in such a high profile case because of all the attention and benefits that came along with it. They were so blinded by zeal and the obsession to win that they put all their faith, trust and resources into a family that turned out to be a total disaster for them. The case was built on lies and created by liars and in the end, they got exactly what they deserved...FAILURE.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So on the eve of MJ's death anniversary RadarOnline report, as "news", what we know for two years, that Robson also filed a lawsuit against MJ's companies. Also making it seem like Robson has a strong case there because he is within 3 years of 2012. Not telling that it's not that simple at all.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes there was a grand jury in 2003 . That's how Sneddon changed the charges. The grand jury hears only the prosecution side. Geragos at the time sent Sneddon exonerating evidence, Sneddon being the "objective" prosecutor he was did not use what Geragos sent to impeach the Arvizo, instead he pushed the timeline to fit with the new evidence . The jurors were very "moved" by the "victims" testimony , before they returned the indictment , they prayed and held each other hands. :smilerolleyes:

Not only that. He extended the law to A) and B) re. child sex abuse just to get at Michael. That is main reason I believed the California justice system was so screwed up because of him.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So on the eve of MJ's death anniversary RadarOnline report, as "news", what we know for two years, that Robson also filed a lawsuit against MJ's companies. Also making it seem like Robson has a strong case there because he is within 3 years of 2012. Not telling that it's not that simple at all.

And sadly fans seems to be posting this on FB, so that it appears above / below other fan news stories, such as the roses at FL. It's such an obvious ploy by Radar to get the story circulating again. I shall be glad when all this nonsense is over, next year.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Story developing? It takes them 2 years to write this "developing story"? I fail to see anything new in there. They are just trying to get Wade's story back out there just in time for the 6th anniversary of MJ's passing so when people look up MJ, this will come up.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Why would people post it so it will go viral. Pathetic. Falls right into their trap.

I wonder who pays Radar to print this stuff. Wade or his attorneys. I don't think it's the other way around.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And sadly fans seems to be posting this on FB, so that it appears above / below other fan news stories, such as the roses at FL. It's such an obvious ploy by Radar to get the story circulating again. I shall be glad when all this nonsense is over, next year.

Story developing? It takes them 2 years to write this "developing story"? I fail to see anything new in there. They are just trying to get Wade's story back out there just in time for the 6th anniversary of MJ's passing so when people look up MJ, this will come up.

I agree that this is the plot. They are trying to give Wade a bit of publicity on the back of the 6th anniversary. Disgusting.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Estate filed their reply. I think I'll publish it on the 26th.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Why?? Was it written badly??? It's not the 25th yet.

I apologize. I'm not trying to be pushy. I'm just anxious. I'm very sorry.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No it's really good - in my opinion.

I'll post some tidbits (my favorites) today. I'll post the full document tomorrow night (my time).

I'm all for bringing his mother into this.

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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

BOOM! That hits where it hurts, that's a great response by the estate!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes!!! Yes!!! Yes!!! Way to go Estate!!! I am so blasted proud I can't see straight!!

A positive way to sign out for the day.
Thank you Ivy.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thank you ivy. It should be about Michael now, at least for tomorrow
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thank you for posting Ivy. I look forward to reading it then. I'm going to just deal with tomorrow.
 
No Charges for Now Against Michael Jackson

LOS ANGELES, Sept. 21 1994— After more than a year of investigation, accompanied by lurid speculation in the press, prosecutors said today that they would not file child molestation charges against the pop superstar Michael Jackson.

At a joint news conference, the District Attorneys for Los Angeles and Santa Barbara Counties said they had decided not to proceed with allegations that Mr. Jackson had sexually molested three boys because the "primary alleged victim" had decided not to testify.

The prosecutors said that the case would remain open and that charges could be filed if the boy changed his mind at any time before the statute of limitations expired in about five years.

The boy, who is now 14, reached an out-of-court settlement with Mr. Jackson in a civil suit filed last September. Although details of the settlement were not made public, a friend of Mr. Jackson said it involved a payment by the singer of more than $10 million. The suit accused Mr. Jackson of sexual battery, seduction, willful misconduct, intentional infliction of emotional distress, fraud and negligence. Mr. Jackson has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing since the allegations became public in August 1993.

In announcing that no charges would be filed now, Gil Garcetti, the Los Angeles District Attorney, said: "After about 13 or 14 months of investigation this is our conclusion. We have a very important witness who has told us, 'I am sorry, I do not want to and will not testify.' And I'm telling you that if he stepped forward a month from now, two months from now, and says, 'I'm willing to testify,' we would re-evaluate our case at that time."

Tom Sneddon, the District Attorney in Santa Barbara, where Mr. Jackson owns an estate, said more than 400 witnesses had been interviewed in the case and that two other possible victims had been identified. But he said one of these, who is now in therapy, had asked not to be involved in the case and the other was out of the country and had made a "general denial" of wrongdoing by Mr. Jackson.

In California, a victim of sexual abuse cannot be required to testify in court.

The two District Attorneys made it clear that they had been prepared to proceed with charges against Mr. Jackson. In a joint statement they said: "We emphasize that our decision is not based on any issue of credibility of the victims. Should circumstances change or new evidence develop within the statute of limitations, this decision will be re-evaluated in light of the evidence available at such time."

But, responding to questions, Mr. Garcetti told reporters: "Michael Jackson is presumed to be innocent as any citizen in this room is if they are not convicted of a crime. We are not charging Michael jackson with a crime."

In a statement, Mr. Jackson said: "I am thankful that the investigation has reached a conclusion. I continually maintained my innocence. I am grateful to all my family, friends and fans who have stood by me and also believed in my innocence, and will never forget the unending outpouring of love from all over the world. God Bless you.

Mr. Jackson's lawyer, Howard Weitzman, said of the announcement: "It is the correct decision. Michael has steadfastly maintained his innocence. We believe it is over. For Michael it is over and he can now get on with his life."

When the allegations became public, Mr. Jackson cut short an international concert tour shortly before Christmas and disappeared from public view for a time. He read a four-minute statement on television in which he proclaimed his innocence and asked for support from his fans.

Mr. Jackson's other lawyer, Johnnie L. Cochran Jr., said today at a recess at a pretrial hearing in the case of O. J. Simpson, for whom he is a lead lawyer, "Michael Jackson is still innocent and will always be innocent." In the city's small world of celebrity lawyers, his colleague on the Jackson case, Mr. Weitzman, was briefly the lawyer for Mr. Simpson.

Photo: Ending a California investigation for now, the Los Angeles District Attorney, Gil Garcetti, right, and the Santa Barbara District Attorney, Thomas Sneddon, said yesterday that they would not file child molestation charges against Michael Jackson because the "primary alleged victim" would not testify. (Reuters)


http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/22/us/no-charges-for-now-against-michael-jackson.html


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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

06/24/2015 Opposition Document (TO DEMURRER OF THE EXECUTORS OF THE ESTATE MICHAEL JACKSON TO CLAIMANT'S AMENDED PETITION, ETC. )
Filed by Attorney for Claimant

From Probate case summary - safechuck's opposition to Estate's demurrer.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

06/24/2015 Opposition Document (TO DEMURRER OF THE EXECUTORS OF THE ESTATE MICHAEL JACKSON TO CLAIMANT'S AMENDED PETITION, ETC. )
Filed by Attorney for Claimant

From Probate case summary - safechuck's opposition to Estate's demurrer.

Is the Estate demurrrer to safechuck's amended complaint available?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Is the Estate demurrrer to safechuck's amended complaint available?

probate documents aren't accessible online. Unless media posts them or someone gets them, I don't have access to them.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Very strong arguments.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Robson filed his opposition on June 17. So the Estate was real quick to reply (June 23). Also very to the point.

Main arguments:


1) Robson was not exposed to Michael as an Inherent Part of an Environment Created by the Relationship Between Michael and the Corporate Defendants.


The Estate points out that when the alleged abuse began (1990) MJJ Ventures did not even exist (it was founded in 1991). "Accordingly, Robson has all but conceded that he has not, and cannot, allege that MJJ Ventures comes within 340.1(b)(2)."


As for MJJ Productions, the Estate points out that a dance competition organized in 1987 does not bring the company within the scope of 340.1(b)(2). Robson does not allege that there was any abuse in 1987. All they (he and his mother) had was a "meet-and-greet" with MJ after Wade won the competition. Then they did not have any contact with him until 1990 when it was Robson's mother who sought out MJ through Norma Staikos, not the other way around.


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2) The Corporate Defendants Did Not Have a Right to Control the Alleged Perpetrator Such They Could Have Prevented the Alleged Abuse.


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- Michael Was In Complete Control of the Corporate Defendants.


Apparently Robson tries to backtrack on some of the statements they made earlier in their papers:


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- The Corporate Defendants Did Not Have a Right to Control Michael; Thus, They Could Take No Steps to Prevent the Alleged Abuse.


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The Estate points out that Robson remarkably ignored to address one precedent case in his opposition, namely Joseph vs. Johnson which specifically states that the requirement is not what someone should have done or should have not done in Plaintiff's opinion but whether Defendant had the right to control the alleged perpetrator. So Robson saying that Staikos should not have left him alone with MJ, should not have arranged for him to go to NL etc. is not enough. Did Staikos have the right to control MJ? No.


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3) The Allegations Do Not Support the Argument That the Corporate Defendants Knew, or Had a Reason to Know, of Past Unlawful Conduct.


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The only "weak" point of the Estate's argument IMO is the argument about the 1993 allegations. The "otherwise on notice" requirement the way I see it does not require that a complaint on which the "on notice" requirement is based on has to be a proven allegation. It only requires a complaint (formal or informal), period. However that's where the good news end for Robson IMO. Because even if we accept the 1993 allegations as the companies being "on notice" the question still remains: did they then fail to do something that they should have done and - importantly - that was within their power and right to do to avoid Robson's alleged abuse? No, there is no such a thing alleged. Robson does not say what the companies were supposed to do when both him and his mother denied abuse and when both him and his mother volunteered to defend MJ. Also let's not forget the City of Los Angeles precedent where the Supreme Court expressly stated that the key reason behind (b)(2) is cases where the Defendants conceal information about past complaints against a Perpetrator. Which was not the case here - the Robsons knew about the Chandler allegations, nothing was concealed from them. And then, of course, there is the whole question of whether the companies had even any right to end or limit the relationship between MJ and the Robsons, when MJ is the companies sole owner and president and when neither MJ OR the Robsons wanted to end or limit that relationship. The companies did not have any right or power to influence that.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

thanks respect
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

An excellent reply from the estate attorneys.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wade and his lawyers must know that their arguments don't hold water:

'Robson's failure to cite a single case holding that a party in his position can get past a demurrer on the central issue here, speaks volumes. ...That failure to address the case law was no oversight'.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

as respect already said , it is very telling that it did not take the estate more than days to file their reply. Let's hope the judge does not give Wade a third chance to amend though with every amendment his argument gets weaker and weaker.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ok-so this whole little nightmare is finally getting good. This is the written equivalent of beating Wade into a bloody pulp. Kick his teeth in a few times for me.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

as respect already said , it is very telling that it did not take the estate more than days to file their reply. Let's hope the judge does not give Wade a third chance to amend though with every amendment his argument gets weaker and weaker.

Do you mean 4th chance to amend? This one is the third one?
Ivy's doc says Reply brief of defendants...... in support of their demurrer to the third amended complaint.

-------------------------------

On different note, as Wade claims that MJ hired Joy to work within his companies so he could molest him, therefore Joy was employee of the company that is being sued now. So he claims companies (employees which includes his own mother) should have known and stop MJ, but then again, Joy as company employee is left out from this whole mess of the lawsuit. As company employee, Joy had no problems driving Wade to where ever he was "summoned". She should have known as much as any company employee, even more so because she was closer and spent more time with MJ and Wade, than company people that have been sued now.
If judge shows to door to Wade's lawsuit, he can always sue his own mother:doh:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do you mean 4th chance to amend? This one is the third one?
Ivy's doc says Reply brief of defendants...... in support of their demurrer to the third amended complaint.

-------------------------------

On different note, as Wade claims that MJ hired Joy to work within his companies so he could molest him, therefore Joy was employee of the company that is being sued now. So he claims companies (employees which includes his own mother) should have known and stop MJ, but then again, Joy as company employee is left out from this whole mess of the lawsuit. As company employee, Joy had no problems driving Wade to where ever he was "summoned". She should have known as much as any company employee, even more so because she was closer and spent more time with MJ and Wade, than company people that have been sued now.
If judge shows to door to Wade's lawsuit, he can always sue his own mother:doh:

Actually, the estate's lawyers covered this point brilliantly, to meet 340.1(b).(2) it is not what the employee should or should not have done to prevent the abuse but rather whether that employee had the RIGHT to control the accused. Wade is tossed.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do you mean 4th chance to amend? This one is the third one?
Ivy's doc says Reply brief of defendants...... in support of their demurrer to the third amended complaint.

both of you are correct. robsons second amended complaint was only naming the companies (he had initially filed it against Doe defendants). so that's one set of claims. estate succeeded in that demurrer but robson was given chance to amend his complaint. So this is the second set of claims. if he is given another chance to amend, that would be the third set of claims but technically would be called the 4th amended complaint.

does it make sense?
 
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