[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thanks respect. Why two therapists?

Because that's the law. IIRC the Certificate of Merit supporting their claims has to come from a different therapist than to whom they went to. I remember reading that somewhere.

You posted some time ago about the kind of therapy Wade went through, was it the first or second one?

I don't think the second therapist really "treats" them. He just talks to them on one or a couple of occasions and vouches for them being "victims" and how their behavior is "normal for victims" etc. Those kind of things.

Wouldn't they have to give the names? or they might wanna call the second one as an "expert"?

They are named, but the names of the therapists they first went to are blocked out in their complaints. The only public name is the therapist's who gave the Certificate of Merit, who is David Arredondo in Robson's case and I think it's the same person in Safechuck's case though I have not seen docs naming him in Safechuck's docs. But the reason why I think so is this part which comes from Safechuck's opposition to the Estate's demurrer on December 5:

And this one is from Robson's Opposition to Executor's Motion to Quash on May 21, 2014:

Exact same things almost word by word. Looks like the same therapist to me.

I also find it odd how he is playing lawyer in the above quoted parts of his Certificate of Merit. Shouldn't he just stick to his field, rather than making commentary about law and statements about where equitable estoppel should be applied?

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

From Robson civil case

03/30/2015 Request ( for media coverage denied )
Filed by Court

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Hmm, who asked for media coverage? And for what? The documents are available, there is no trial, so what did they want to cover?

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^

that's probably for the hearings. there's nothing stopping the media from attending and reporting but I think they want to live stream the upcoming hearings. and I think it would most likely be Radar Online. TMZ is also a possibility but they haven't really shown any interest in this case. We'll see if/when the document becomes available.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yeah, Radar Online (and indirectly the Robson camp) is my first thought as well. I'm glad the Judge denied it.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do a Diane report when Wade's lawyer talk then leave when estate lawyers talk

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If they wanted their 'own' media people to film it, it sounds like they want to create a documentary of some kind, possibly for future broadcast along with interviews etc. The irony being that this particular 'real life' 'documentary' would be based on two works of fiction....

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think it's just someone (possibly Radar Online) trying to blow it up big like 2005. We also know there is some sort of cooperation between Radar and Robson's team, so maybe eventually it's them trying to stir some media echo and attention and thus hightening the publicity pressure on the Estate in an attempt to make them settle. But I'm just speculating, we will have to see who requested it.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Looks like a desperate attempt to raise some media attention with the help of his partners in crime (RO). I doubt it's TMZ. Another proof the media coverage is something they were counting on and they didn't given up yet. They need a settlement really bad.

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Very glad media coverage isn't happening here. We have a smart judge. MJ is gone so I don't see any point in coverage on this unless as others have said, it was intended to put pressure on the estate to settle.

 

[ivy]

Home » Hollywood » This Article

Alleged sex abuse by Michael Jackson led dancer to claim nervous breakdown
POSTED BY JOHN SCHREIBER ON MARCH 31, 2015 IN HOLLYWOOD | 1,068 VIEWS | LEAVE A RESPONSE

A dancer-choreographer who alleges he was molested by Michael Jackson as a boy says a nervous breakdown and the thought of his son being abused in the same way made him realize that he needed therapy, setting him on a course to come forward and talk about his allegations against the late King of Pop.

Wade Robson, 32, alleges Jackson molested him between 1990-97, though he testified in the singer’s 2005 child molestation trial, which involved another boy and ended with Jackson’s acquittal, that the entertainer did not abuse him.

In his most recent sworn statement filed in connection with his attempt to file a late probate claim against the singer’s estate, Robson says that May 8, 2012, was a key date for him.

“I began to recognize for myself that Jackson had molested me,” Robson alleges. “It was on that date in my therapy session … that I first spoke about the sexual activity I had with Jackson. This revelation initiated an enormous emotional, psychological and physiological upheaval in my life that continues until this day.”

Robson needs a judge’s permission to bring a late probate court claim because his court papers were filed in May 2013, nearly four years after the entertainer’s June 25, 2009, overdose death at age 50.

Attorneys for the Jackson estate deny the singer molested Robson and have filed papers seeking to dismiss his case. A hearing is scheduled April 7 before Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff.

Robson says his first of two nervous breakdowns occurred in April 2011, causing him to withdraw from a film project and begin seeking psychological help. “But I did not mention the sexual abuse because at that time I still did not see it as such,” Robson states in his court papers.

A second breakdown in March 2012 was a turning point, he says.

“As with my first breakdown, I experienced stress, anxiety, fear and depression,” Robson says. “I also began to imagine my son being subjected to the same sort of sexual acts I had been forced to commit with Jackson, and for the first time in my life I thought I might need to talk to someone about what Jackson and I had done together.”

Robson says he sent an email to friends and family members in September 2012 concerning what he called a “transformational time” in his life.

“The transformational period in my life that I was referring to came about as I began to understand that I had been sexually abused by Jackson when I was a child,” he says. “In the email, I wanted to to let my friends and family members known what was happening in my life at that point in time.”

Robson says he explained to the readers of his email “what was going on so they would not be worried about me.” He says he asked them to keep what he was revealing confidential, knowing that anything about him and Jackson was newsworthy in the tabloids.

“I had never forgotten what happened between Jackson and me, but because of Jackson’s indoctrination I didn’t understand that it was abuse,” Robson says. “I thought it was as much my idea as it was his; I thought my life and my career would come to an end if anyone every found out and I had no idea that it affected me in any negative ways.”

Robson says waiting until 2012 to talk about his allegations reveals his state of mind.

“It speaks to the fear and paranoia I was dealing with in relation to who my abuser was and his massive celebrity status,” Robson says. “Jackson had made me think in terms of what would happen if I told anyone about the sexual conduct and then that person told someone else who then told the press.”

Robson alleges there was a “fear driven into me by Jackson that I was somehow at fault for his abuse of me.”

Jackson was acquitted on all charges in the 2005 criminal case trial. Robson’s attorneys state in their court papers that their client testified during the trial that he was not molested by Jackson because he believed he was a “consenting participant” in the acts in which he and the entertainer had allegedly engaged.

Jackson called Robson frequently before the trial to rehearse his testimony with him, Robson’s attorneys’ court papers allege.

According to Robson’s attorneys’ court papers, Jackson told their client, “They’re making up all these lies about us, saying that we did all this disgusting sexual stuff. They’re just trying to take us down, take away my power and my money, take away our careers. We can’t let them do this.”

— City News Service

http://mynewsla.com/hollywood/2015/...ackson-molested-led-him-to-nervous-breakdown/

 

[HIStory]

The same crap over and over again.

He did not know it was wrong but he was in fear and paranoid about anyone finding out because if they did his "life would be over". He did not know it was sexual abuse although he testified in a criminal trial that was about alleged sexual abuse and the criminality of such acts. And what a coincidence that BOTH him and Safechuck had the exact same experience of realizing they were abused by looking at their sons and imagining sexual acts with them. I guess sexual abuse by MJ does not only lead to not realizing what is abuse even though you get bombarded with that information all your life, but also to the exact same fantasies in people...

"and I had no idea that it affected me in any negative ways.”

Yeah, an anally raped kid does not experience any negative effects until he is 30 years old and imagines his son being raped too...

According to Robson’s attorneys’ court papers, Jackson told their client, “They’re making up all these lies about us, saying that we did all this disgusting sexual stuff. They’re just trying to take us down, take away my power and my money, take away our careers. We can’t let them do this.”

It never made any sense to me. Why would Michael tell that to someone he molested? Both of them would know he molested him, so what use there is in MJ telling Robson it was a lie that people make up about them?

The new element compared to his previous declaration seem to be these more emphasized references to Michael's "massive celebrity status" as a reason why he did not sue earlier (I guess for the same purpose as for Safechuck) and the information about him sending out e-mails to his friends and family in September 2012.

I wonder how they hope it would help him (or if it is a voluntary relevation or the Estate found out about it and now they have to address it). In fact, sending out e-mails about his alleged abuse in September 2012, would mean that by that time he was well aware of all "facts" giving arise to his claim, yet he only filed in May 2013, eight months later.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Did he call them to whine or is it rehashed things from the lawsuit and his interview that he begged them to repost after the media request was denied?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I guess there was a new declaration filed by him recently and this website quotes from that. Most of it is rehashing his first declaration. What wasn't in his first declaration is this thing about sending out e-mails to his friends and relatives in September 2012 and to me it seems like they are putting bigger emphasis now on MJ's "massive celebrity" as a reason why he did not come forward earlier (similar to Safechuck).

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If Michaels Mass celebrity stop you from coming forward then that is your own paranoia.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Justin Michaels Mass celebrity stop you from coming forward then that is your own paranoia.

Then that you did not even know it was abuse. Then that you did not know there was an Estate. Etc. etc. Just claim anything in the hope of that getting you pass statutes of limitations.

ETA: Oh, and MJ told him it was "disgusting sexual stuff". That does not sound to me like MJ is telling him something like that is "love". And MJ was telling him stuff like that and that still did not make him realize something like that would be wrong and sexual abuse? Ugh, okay.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

LOL their equitable estoppel excuses are getting weaker and weaker. I bet they miss the "repressed memories" days. Simpler times.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Reading this is insulting to my life. It's like reading some stupid carp from lipstick alley

 

[myosotis]

Then that you did not even know it was abuse. Then that you did not know there was an Estate. Etc. etc. Just claim anything in the hope of that getting you pass statutes of limitations.

ETA: Oh, and MJ told him it was "disgusting sexual stuff". That does not sound to me like MJ is telling him something like that is "love". And MJ was telling him stuff like that and that still did not make him realize something like that would be wrong and sexual abuse? Ugh, okay.

I agree.

I also really don't understand how both of the following statements can be true at the same time. This case is starting to look like Schrodingers cat (which can be both alive and dead at the same time)....or perhaps the world 'through the looking glass', where you have to be able to believe "six impossible things before breakfast" ...


'there was a “fear driven into me by Jackson that I was somehow at fault for his abuse of me.”
and

“I had never forgotten what happened between Jackson and me, but because of Jackson’s indoctrination I didn’t understand that it was abuse,” Robson says

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This whole thing is starting to sound like something from The Onion.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The same crap over and over again.

He did not know it was wrong but he was in fear and paranoid about anyone finding out because if they did his "life would be over". He did not know it was sexual abuse although he testified in a criminal trial that was about alleged sexual abuse and the criminality of such acts. And what a coincidence that BOTH him and Safechuck had the exact same experience of realizing they were abused by looking at their sons and imagining sexual acts with them. I guess sexual abuse by MJ does not only lead to not realizing what is abuse even though you get bombarded with that information all your life, but also to the exact same fantasies in people...



Yeah, an anally raped kid does not experience any negative effects until he is 30 years old and imagines his son being raped too...



It never made any sense to me. Why would Michael tell that to someone he molested? Both of them would know he molested him, so what use there is in MJ telling Robson it was a lie that people make up about them?

The new element compared to his previous declaration seem to be these more emphasized references to Michael's "massive celebrity status" as a reason why he did not sue earlier (I guess for the same purpose as for Safechuck) and the information about him sending out e-mails to his friends and family in September 2012.

I wonder how they hope it would help him (or if it is a voluntary relevation or the Estate found out about it and now they have to address it). In fact, sending out e-mails about his alleged abuse in September 2012, would mean that by that time he was well aware of all "facts" giving arise to his claim, yet he only filed in May 2013, eight months later.

Exactly. Should not he have filed within three months ?

 

[HIStory]

'there was a “fear driven into me by Jackson that I was somehow at fault for his abuse of me.”
and

“I had never forgotten what happened between Jackson and me, but because of Jackson’s indoctrination I didn’t understand that it was abuse,” Robson says

A good point.

The whole thing just seems to be a mix of everything he ever read about child abuse in literature, but he does not realize that putting all those elements together in one story makes his story contradictory.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Exactly. Should not he have filed within three months ?

Within 60 days as per Probate Code 9103.

(2) The creditor had no knowledge of the facts reasonably giving rise to the existence of the claim more than 30 days prior to the time for filing a claim as provided in Section 9100, and the petition is filed within 60 days after the creditor has actual knowledge of both of the following:

(A) The existence of the facts reasonably giving rise to the existence of the claim.

(B) The administration of the estate.

Now, he went to therapy in May 2012 where he realized for the first time according to his complaint that he was abused. In September 2012 he sent out e-mails to his family and friends about his allegations.
He filed in May 2013. So this means he would not fall under (A) by any means. He knew about the "the existence of the facts reasonably giving rise to the existence of the claim" ie. that he was allegedly abused in May 2012 and definitely in September 2012 if he was sending out e-mails about it. That is why they also try and claim he did not know about the administration of the Estate until March 2013. Because that would put him within those required 60 days. Of course, that's another claim that is hard to believe when he participated in the Estate-sponsored Opus project, when he wanted to participate in the Estate-sponsored Cirque du Soleil project, when his long-time lawyer talked about the Estate and it's potential earning power after Michael's death in November 2009 and when generally the whole world knew about the Estate. Just not Wade Robson, we are supposed to believe.

So they are also going for equitable estoppel which is why they make all these arguments about Michael supposedly brainwashing and intimidating him, Michael's "massive celebrity" as a reason why they could not file earlier etc.

I wonder if this e-mail is a voluntary relevation by them or they are forced to address it because the Estate found out about it in other ways. Because it wasn't mentioned in his original complaint and it does not seem to be good for an argument that he was within statutory limits acc. to PC 9103 when he filed in May 2013.
It's hard to tell from just this declaration but sounds like they are rather going for equitable estoppel now. By all these arguments about fear, intimidation, massive celebrity etc.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

But how could he now claim equitable estoppel when he is admitting he was very much aware in September 2012 of all the facts given arise to his claim? If he was sending emails to various people , how could he claim MJ still had effect on him preventing him from filing a case?

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ He thinks he can try, doesn't mean it's going to work.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

But this is very damaging to his case. Like respect said, I have a feeling the estate figured out some interesting information regarding these emails and he is forced to address them. Otherwise, I cant understand how does he believe something like this would help his case.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

But how could he now claim equitable estoppel when he is admitting he was very much aware in September 2012 of all the facts given arise to his claim? If he was sending emails to various people , how could he claim MJ still had effect on him preventing him from filing a case?

Not only that but they acknowledge in their original complaint that he was aware of the "facts giving rise to his claim" in May, 2012.

We did not see the legal argument attached to this current declaration but in his original complaint his equitable estoppel argument seems messy to me. They argue that CCP 340.1 should be applied to them rather than PC 9103 - obviously because that would give them 3 years to file, not 60 days that is in PC 9103. But that law is for cases where the defendant is alive.

They just want this to apply to him rather than PC 9103 (which applies in the case of defendants who died) simply because this would be more favourable to him. There is no other reason why this should be applied to his case when PC 9103 also gave him an opportunity to file a complaint when he himself claims he knew about the "facts" giving rise to his claim.

^ I don't see how any of this supports his equitable estoppel argument. He claims he did not know he was abused until "his unexpected breakdown necessitated that he seek professional help". Which means that according to his own story in May 2012 he knew about the "facts" giving rise to his claim. Counting from then he had 60 days to seek legal advise and file a complaint according to PC 9103. Just because he failed to do this it does not mean that more favourable laws should be applied to him.

Then he also tries to make an argument for why he is within the statutory limitations pf PC 9103 - but the argument does not make any sense:

Here they themselves state: "it is clear that Claimant did not have knowledge of the facts reasonably giving rise to his claim until at the very least May 8, 2012". So how does it support he filed within the 60 days required in PC 9103, when he filed a year later in May 2013?

And then there is the whole argument of Robson not knowing about the Estate until March 2013.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's like Wade, James and their lawyers got stuck in a loop. That's what happens when you tell a lie, you have to tell more lies for it to sound logic and eventually there going to be huge holes when you put the whole story together. I really don't think they thought it through when they first filled the lawsuit. What we're witnessing now is them realizing they are doomed.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They are destroying their own cases with every new filing.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They are destroying their own cases with every new filing.

Maybe this was the judge's idea...ie give them enough rope......