Did Jordan Chandler Admit That MJ Did Not Molest Him?

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

You can count me in - am a bit sketchy on the exact details but google should be able to sort that out. As well as facts, maybe some arguments just using basic common sense would be helpful to counter the most common accusations used by 'haters'.

No, he did separate from his father for a bit. Remember, he'd told people he would never speak to his parents again for what they made him do while he was at uni.... just a few years before 2004.

I didn't know this. Is that the person who tmez talked about in a video clip as a possible witness to counter jordan if he ever decided to testify in 05? My question to jermaine in the q and a about why he insists on telling all media outlets that jordan had confessed was answered. Apparently jermaine wasn't referring to that internet hoax but to tmez stating that he had witnesses lined up to testify that jordan admitted he lied. I was impressed that jermaine knew about that, but still felt that it needed more explanation from jerms in the media because most poeple would just assume he was talking about the hoax internet confession.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

So, people, are we gonna go our fact file of the allegations that we talked about earlier? To educate fans and the public? Like I said VindicateMJ does a great job, but I think their articles are often too long for the average Internet user's attention span. There should be a database of short, to the point summaries of the facts. I think we should start a seperate thread for this and if the mods deem the articles useful then they could pin the topic. And also the articles and information could be spread on blogs and websites later, but first I think we should start out here, within the forum.

What do you think? Should we do it? If yes how? Any ideas? Who is willing to participate?

All for it- especially the shorter ones. We need shorter paragraphs. I see these HUGE things quoted online and you know that nobody is reading those.

I think it would be time for a new "fact file of DISPROVED ALLEGATIONS"- sticky and all- and I'd be happy to translate that into my native tongue, too. (In that case- German). I'd love to help built air-tight fact file- that is also translated into various languages. (similar to the Murray case). We have the power to completely re-do coverage- even retroactively. The more we post and link to OUR fact file- the more these results will show up on the search engines- and long term that will completely circumvent any slimy books the usual suspects are peddling on amazon. (I think linking to Vindicate MJ is great- for those that do want to read the longer threads)

I'm in. This worked for the Murray trial and it might be time to patiently do that retroactively for the 2005 trial. That's the marathon Michael was talking about...

 

[bluetopez]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I would like to help as best I can also. Even though I have no clue what exactly some are lookin for? Someone have to start it off I guess to know?

But, I hope the focus is not just on the Arviso case but, the Chandler one aswell and even more so. The Chandler allegations are the more demaging ones because it didn't have a trial and because of that they get away with alot of B.S and have people easliy confused. Atleast we can find transcripts of the Arviso case and that helps.

I think the number 1 defense of MJ against the 93 allegations would be IMO the non match of the photographas taken of him in 93 in the Chandler case and Vindicate has so much on that which helps. And for the Arviso's would be the whole conspiracy crap which truly showed how fake the allegations were.

I find that Vindicates newsletters that go to ur e-mail are less lengthy and go more straight to the point faster then when u go to their site. IMO

 

[8701girl]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

How he claims in his book he witnessed MJ fondling his son but instead shut the door and walked back out?

Evan wrote that in his book?.......:O wow just wow doesnt that make evan more guilty on his of this whole set up? grrrrr

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

All for it- especially the shorter ones. We need shorter paragraphs. I see these HUGE things quoted online and you know that nobody is reading those.

I think it would be time for a new "fact file of DISPROVED ALLEGATIONS"- sticky and all- and I'd be happy to translate that into my native tongue, too. (In that case- German). I'd love to help built air-tight fact file- that is also translated into various languages. (similar to the Murray case). We have the power to completely re-do coverage- even retroactively. The more we post and link to OUR fact file- the more these results will show up on the search engines- and long term that will completely circumvent any slimy books the usual suspects are peddling on amazon. (I think linking to Vindicate MJ is great- for those that do want to read the longer threads)

I'm in. This worked for the Murray trial and it might be time to patiently do that retroactively for the 2005 trial. That's the marathon Michael was talking about...

This this and this!

I'm wondering if we should make a private messageboard on another site and invite all the people interested, because I'm a bit worried that haters might be lurking here in order to try and find ways to mess with our info, the way they do with Vindicate and other blogs.

Evan wrote that in his book?.......:O wow just wow doesnt that make evan more guilty on his of this whole set up? grrrrr

In Ray Chandler's book he says that happened, yup. Could only have been told that from Evan.

Personally my belief about the Arvizo's and Chandler's will always be that they both hoped Michael would molest Jordan/Gavin. They hoped he was a pedophile. They wanted their children to have been victims.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

In Ray Chandler's book he says that happened, yup. Could only have been told that from Evan.

Personally my belief about the Arvizo's and Chandler's will always be that they both hoped Michael would molest Jordan/Gavin. They hoped he was a pedophile. They waned their children to have been victims.

That is just unbeliveable! how could any parent hope for that to happen to their child?! Evan was a piece of work i'll tell ya that much

 

[bluetopez]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

How he claims in his book he witnessed MJ fondling his son but instead shut the door and walked back out?

Not only did Ray claim this is what his Brother Evan witnessed in his book but, he also said this in an interview where I first heard of this and my reaction was to laugh at such B.S. I believe he was interviewed by the fakess Dimond we know...I don't even have to say her first name, ya'll know u it is! -_- lol

 

[HIStory]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I didn't know this. Is that the person who tmez talked about in a video clip as a possible witness to counter jordan if he ever decided to testify in 05?

I don't know how many such witnesses T-Mez had, but I know that one was a girl called Josephine Zohny. She went to college with Jordan and she was ready to testify that Jordan told her that Michael never molested him. She's on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jzohny

And yes, her name was on the Defense's witness list.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I would like to help as best I can also. Even though I have no clue what exactly some are lookin for? Someone have to start it off I guess to know?

But, I hope the focus is not just on the Arviso case but, the Chandler one aswell and even more so. The Chandler allegations are the more demaging ones because it didn't have a trial and because of that they get away with alot of B.S and have people easliy confused. Atleast we can find transcripts of the Arviso case and that helps.

I think the number 1 defense of MJ against the 93 allegations would be IMO the non match of the photographas taken of him in 93 in the Chandler case and Vindicate has so much on that which helps. And for the Arviso's would be the whole conspiracy crap which truly showed how fake the allegations were.

I find that Vindicates newsletters that go to ur e-mail are less lengthy and go more straight to the point faster then when u go to their site. IMO

I agree that we have to cover both cases.

The non-match of the photographs is definitely an important subject, but there are so many things about the Chandler case vindicating Michael. The timeline: Evan threatening to destroy Michael, hiring a lawyer BEFORE Jordan allegedly confessed to him. Then instead of going directly to authorities the Chandlers start all kinds of legal manuevering with getting a psychologist report the case instead of Evan having to. And before this happens demanding 20 million dollars from Michael. Their desperate attempt to delay the criminal trial and get the civil before it. And so on.

The Arvizo case collapses right when you learn about the timeline: Michael allegedly starting to molest Gavin after the Bashir documentary while the whole world was watching. Of course, the media never made it clear what the allegations exactly were with this ridiculous timeline.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I'm wondering if we should make a private messageboard on another site and invite all the people interested, because I'm a bit worried that haters might be lurking here in order to try and find ways to mess with our info, the way they do with Vindicate and other blogs.

We can do it. It's not difficult to register a free message board on Proboards for example. Then you can make that board private, only visible for the members. We could work there and post the end result here in a seperate thread.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Not only did Ray claim this is what his Brother Evan witnessed in his book but, he also said this in an interview where I first heard of this and my reaction was to laugh at such B.S. I believe he was interviewed by the fakess Dimond we know...I don't even have to say her first name, ya'll know u it is! -_- lol

And did Dimond never ask why didn't he do anything if this is what he saw? :smilerolleyes:

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Evan did do something, didn't he? Didn't he ask mj after witnessing this incident if he would build an extension to the house but the zoning regs meant that it couldn't be done. An unusual reaction to seeing your child supposedly 'molested'. Yes, the more you think about it, tmez would have had a field day with evan on x-exam.

Remember JRT's blog (i think he deleted it later) on evan when news hit that he had committed suicide.

"I have stories about that guy that I have never published.

"He was about as inconsistent as they come. He was so determined to get me on his side, I thought he was just a tad scary. If you read my book you sort of get how I felt -- feel -- about him. When [the book] came out he called me screaming at me for not just buying his story 100%. He actually threatened me, and I thought... okay, pal, now I know who you really are."

Well i read his 04 edition of his book and i didn't come away with an impression of evan as borderline disturbed. His book actually was studiedly neutral about the whole chandler allegations. It's a shame that jrt has never gone public with his impressions of evan, he was quick to judge mj harshly for everything he did in his life, but evan clearly got a pass. Why some mj fans regard jrt as on their side ticks me off.



Re the fact sheet, agree it should be succinct, maybe using headings and bullet points. A frequently asked q and a might be an idea as well - some common arguments that are used by 'haters', eg settlement paid to jordan ended the investigation, and counter arguments.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Well i read his 04 edition of his book and i didn't come away with an impression of evan as borderline disturbed. His book actually was studiedly neutral about the whole chandler allegations. It's a shame that jrt has never gone public with his impressions of evan, he was quick to judge mj harshly for everything he did in his life, but evan clearly got a pass. Why some mj fans regard jrt as on their side ticks me off.

My guess is that it's because of what he wrote about Michael and LMP and how great of a lover Michael was. I'm sure he was but that's not the point. The point is that because of this story many fans give a free pass to JRT. I agree with you about him 100%. IMO he's trying to play for both sides: for his media buddies and for the fans as well. If he really had all this info about Evan it would have been fair from him to disclose it in his books. Instead he kept insinuating things about Michael and Jordan. I remember a story in one of his books which was about how Michael and the Chandler family were watching TV one day and how Michael couldn't take his eyes off Jordan. While JRT never explicitely said Michael molested Jordan but always did insinuations like this. And this is just like the rest of his stories: since he wasn't in the room himself this story could only came about two ways: either he made it up or he had a source who was in the room. And besides Michael it were only the Chandlers.And that's a highly biased source with an agenda. So it seems to me, no matter what he said in the hindsight, actually he did buy some of Evan's stories...

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Yes, I can't forgive JRT for what he helped pave way for. I was just flicking through his 1991 version and he speaks about MJ and Emmanuel and how MJ was "obsessed" with Emmanuel, how they would "wrestle like puppies", and how they once stayed together at a hotel one night and MJ said he was his father and he said something about how "it's not known what kind of role either were playing that night" or something and that it was the last time they ever hung out - just very insidious and creepy and weird, JRT knew what he was trying to suggest with it.

So if I set up a little board and then invite only you guys who've been actively posting here via PM would that be okay? If you know other people who would be interested in helping you could also invite them. But I'm very cautious about any lurkers or newbies wanting to take part, I'm sure you guys have all seen what the haters have been up to with guys like Vindicate and Charles Thomson.

 

[bluetopez]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

The timeline on both cases are very important and all of that should be included in MJs defense. But, from what I seen the media focuses alot on the photographs (and the settlement which would be #1) in the 93 case to show MJs guilt according to them. And they talk about the Conspiracy part of the Arviso case to show why MJ won the case. That's why I picked those two as the most that should be argued because they always have people confused but, all is VERY important ofcourse. Nothing should be left out because their is always something people will try to hit us back with.

I remember Diane Dimond asking Ray why didn't Evan do anything if he he allegedly saw what happen. But, if I remember right he said he was in shock or something that all he did was went to the bathroom and splashed water on his face? I might have this interview on tape...? It's been a while since I looked at the trial stuff so I ain't sure? And I have so many MJ VHS tapes...that I wouldn't even know where to look first?! O_O


And about JRT I never like this phony dude. Here he claims he knew Evan was a bad dude and didn't even care to publicly say this. Yet, he tells Diane and Zonen what amazing jobs their doing during the MJ trial. I unfortunetly have this idiots 1st edition of his MJ book. I bought it yrs ago for $6 bucks and I still want my money back. It was recommended by fans so I thought it would be worth it but, wow I am disappointed that some fans think this guy is worth a freakin penny! He says things in that book that makes me uncomfortable, it's like he sense or knew MJ would be accused sooner or later. And I find that creepy as shit given all we know now.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

The non-match of the photographs is definitely an important subject.

I remember the big problem bout that was ppl were saying " oh he used make up to cover stuff up" and no matter how those non matching photographs proved michael's innocence , ppl just didnt wanna listen

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

...

And about JRT I never like this phony dude. Here he claims he knew Evan was a bad dude and didn't even care to publicly say this. Yet, he tells Diane and Zonen how amazing what jobs their doing during the MJ trial. I unfortunetly have this idiots 1st edition of his MJ book. I bought it yrs ago for $6 bucks and I still want my money back. It was recommended by fans so I thought it would be worth it but, wow I am disappointed that some fans think this guy is worth a freakin penny! He says things in that book that makes me uncomfortable, it's like he sense or knew MJ would be accused sooner or later. And I find that creepy as shit given all we know now.

I about fell off my chair when I saw Taraborelli in that Peretti 'documentary' hit piece- including the stuff coming out of his mouth. The fact that he's so extraordinarily chummy with Dimond says it all. Taraborelli isn't hiding that fact, either! I only read a few pages of Taraborelli's book, put it away and mentally apologized to Michael because humans shouldn't have to put up with so much ill-will.

The thing with Taraborelli is that fans don't want to be seen as 'delusional teenagers' who "can't accept the darker sides of their beloved idol."- and boom, people think they are somehow doing themselves and Michael some kind of favor in the reality check department- you know where that whole Dimond-Jones-Victor Gutierrez triangle leads- ANYONE who slaps Dimond on the shoulder is part of that pack, no excuses.

Knowing who Dimond hangs out with- man, you could have been the entire collection of Saints in the Catholic Church rolled into one person- with that pack of hyenas nobody stands a chance.

 

[bluetopez]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

That RJT book was like the fans first tell all into the so called real world of MJs private life and so many held it up during that time as THE book to have and maybe some still do? I can think of another book doing the same right now but, atleast that person knew MJ. Randy claims he was friends with MJ for yrs yet, has this ONE pic of him and MJ from the late 70's. He did interview MJ in the 70's and early 80's but, after I never really seen proof. Not in paper nor any sort of pic with him and MJ "his friend" that wasn't the same one from the late 70's...how odd! He pretty much after the 80's been quoting so called things MJ said to him but, I never seen proof. But, for some reason he is known and called in the media an MJ insider...weird!

I think he just got lucky with gettin his hands on those "Glenda tapes" before anyone else. Those tapes are all over youtube now where we can hear MJ talk about growing up Jackson and his relationship with Joe and JRT turned that into the basis of his first book! Without it I believe he wouldn't have been able to write that book. When I heard those tapes yrs later it was clear to me where he got almost all of what he talks about in his book...he cheated! He didn't investigate, just listen to tapes. lol Everything else was interviews with MJ cirlce of peeps willing to tell all of what they said they knew about MJ!

I hear that his second and third edition of the same book he quotes tabloids left and right. Says alot! Guess he had no tapes this time around? lol Nor couldn't rely on his long so called "friendship" with MJ for new info, eh? Crazy!

 

[Alayasha]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I think its great what you guys are doing. If you go to the archives section on KOP there is some great stuff from the trial and 93 allegations there. Also, does anyone know if Lilly Chandler was interviewed by detectives and what happened to her?

 

[HIStory]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

That RJT book was like the fans first tell all into the so called real world of MJs private life and so many held it up during that time as THE book to have and maybe some still do? I can think of another book doing the same right now but, atleast that person knew MJ. Randy claims he was friends with MJ for yrs yet, has this ONE pic of him and MJ from the late 70's. He did interview MJ in the 70's and early 80's but, after I never really seen proof. Not in paper nor any sort of pic with him and MJ "his friend" that wasn't the same one from the late 70's...how odd! He pretty much after the 80's been quoting so called things MJ said to him but, I never seen proof. But, for some reason he is known and called in the media an MJ insider...weird!

I think he just got lucky with gettin his hands on those "Glenda tapes" before anyone else. Those tapes are all over youtube now where we can hear MJ talk about growing up Jackson and his relationship with Joe and JRT turned that into the basis of his first book! Without it I believe he wouldn't have been able to write that book. When I heard those tapes yrs later it was clear to me where he got almost all of what he talks about in his book...he cheated! He didn't investigate, just listen to tapes. lol Everything else was interviews with MJ cirlce of peeps willing to tell all of what they said they knew about MJ!

I hear that his second and third edition of the same book he quotes tabloids left and right. Says alot! Guess he had no tapes this time around? lol Nor couldn't rely on his long so called "friendship" with MJ for new info, eh? Crazy!

I don't think JRT took his information from the Glenda tapes. The Glenda tapes came to light only in 2005. In fact, in the Glenda tapes his book (the first edition obviously, since the conversations took place somewhere between 1989-1992) is mentioned so it was written earlier than the conversations took place.

Recently JRT tried to imply Michael endorsed his book because of what he said about it in those Glenda conversations. I don't remember Michael's exact words but to me it didn't sound like endorsement at all. Glenda actually mentioned Michael cried the last time she mentioned to him that she was reading the book. And another time when Glenda mentions she reads "Magic and The Madness" Michael just says: "Oh, that book!" (in a dismissive tone) and doesn't comment any further. That's not endorsement.

I think the first edition contained lots of truths (spiced up sometimes for tabloid consumption) but then all liars operate that way: mix lies with truth.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

So if I set up a little board and then invite only you guys who've been actively posting here via PM would that be okay? If you know other people who would be interested in helping you could also invite them. But I'm very cautious about any lurkers or newbies wanting to take part, I'm sure you guys have all seen what the haters have been up to with guys like Vindicate and Charles Thomson.

I think that would be great.

 

[Sunwalker7]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I'm a new poster to this thread, hope it's okay if I jump into the conversation here. I just wanted to say I think making a fact file is a great idea. The problem now is that there is information around the internet, but it's not very easy to find, or easy to read. Fans might be able to find it, but the general public does not, and so they just rely on what the media and haters say.

I agree it's important to keep the fact file pretty succinct. People's attention spans are so short, lengthy essays will just be tl;dr for many, and it doesn't matter how great and insightful an essay is if nobody's going to read it. Maybe it would be good to have pretty short, to-the-point facts and answers, and then link to longer essays or suggest books to read in case someone wants to find out more.

And I think a frequently asked questions/answers thing would be great. That way all common arguments made by haters could be covered.

Re: Taraborrelli's book: The first edition had its upsides and downsides imo, but the newer editions keep getting worse and worse. Well, to be fair, I've heard the latest edition is better, I haven't read it myself, but the latest version I read (2009) had a lot of problems the original version didn't have, imo. To me it felt very rushed and not very well researched.

I don't know what kind of sources JRT used, if any, because often I felt like he was just making stuff up. Like, he describes things in detail that he has no way of knowing, and it reads a lot like fiction. I guess that's a literary technique and it's not a huge problem in itself, but what I do have a problem with is him using extremely unreliable sources and then presenting that information as fact. I hate that in the Chandler case he uses Evan Chandler as a source of information without ever bothering to mention his sources are highly questionable and biased. If he simply had to use that information at all, I think he should have made it clear that it could be 100% garbage, considering the source. I don't think most non-fans read the book that critically, so they might just believe what they read without realising it could be totally untrue.

In the later editions he also rewrote some of the earlier parts to make them more dramatic or something. Just weird things, like for example in the original edition he said that Michael was an average student in school, but in a later edition it had changed to Michael being a terrible student. Just random things like that. I don't know, it just feels awfully tabloidy. I don't think it's the worst book written about Michael, not by any stretch, but I think everything in it needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. I understand that no biography will ever be totally impartial and accurate, but I think so much in this book is influenced by JRT's own opinions and interpretations.

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I don't think JRT took his information from the Glenda tapes. The Glenda tapes came to light only in 2005. In fact, in the Glenda tapes his book (the first edition obviously, since the conversations took place somewhere between 1989-1992) is mentioned so it was written earlier than the conversations took place.

Recently JRT tried to imply Michael endorsed his book because of what he said about it in those Glenda conversations. I don't remember Michael's exact words but to me it didn't sound like endorsement at all. Glenda actually mentioned Michael cried the last time she mentioned to him that she was reading the book. And another time when Glenda mentions she reads "Magic and The Madness" Michael just says: "Oh, that book!" (in a dismissive tone) and doesn't comment any further. That's not endorsement.

I think the first edition contained lots of truths (spiced up sometimes for tabloid consumption) but then all liars operate that way: mix lies with truth.

Regarding his book Glenda says to him after he sounds sad mentioning it, "I didn't like it either."

And I think her son Jason was saying he saw the book in their house, the kid is saying how he saw a book with MJ's picture on and MJ asks which one, I'm guessing think it would be Moonwalk/Dancing The Dream... instead it's that one and he sounds disappointed.

The book/thing Mike does give credence to is LaToya, "And LaToya told the truth" "you read it in the book," speaking about his father.

But yeah some people on JRT's page and Charles Thomson have used that as a strange way to validate JRT, but people always seem to try and validate JRT as if he's the only guy we have on our team. But what's funny is JRT refuses to discuss the Glenda tapes or what they mean, he says unless he has 100% proof he won't ever use them as proof - imagine, this the guy who created a book almost entirely based on anonymous sources who have been proven to be wrong. Probably because MJ talks about dating girls, something JRT would never say happened beyond blessed Lisa.

I about fell off my chair when I saw Taraborelli in that Peretti 'documentary' hit piece- including the stuff coming out of his mouth. The fact that he's so extraordinarily chummy with Dimond says it all. Taraborelli isn't hiding that fact, either! I only read a few pages of Taraborelli's book, put it away and mentally apologized to Michael because humans shouldn't have to put up with so much ill-will.

The thing with Taraborelli is that fans don't want to be seen as 'delusional teenagers' who "can't accept the darker sides of their beloved idol."- and boom, people think they are somehow doing themselves and Michael some kind of favor in the reality check department- you know where that whole Dimond-Jones-Victor Gutierrez triangle leads- ANYONE who slaps Dimond on the shoulder is part of that pack, no excuses.

Knowing who Dimond hangs out with- man, you could have been the entire collection of Saints in the Catholic Church rolled into one person- with that pack of hyenas nobody stands a chance.

LOL so accurate.

When Bob Jones published his book JRT defended it and helped promote it in interviews. I think it's funny JRT gets so tetchy about people bitching about him on blogs and things when he has spent his entire life making a living off of bitching and using tabloids and smears for other people.

I think someone once described him pretty accurately as a "coward."

Okay lemme PM the people who've commented here so far

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I'm sure i read jrt saying mj had offered him $l/2million to abort his book back before he first published it in '91, rather than boasting about it being 'endorsed.' Actually maybe jrt said both things at different times to different audiences - he tends to blow in the wind.

It's sad that the fact jrt wrote about mj/lmp's marriage as 'real' means that mj fans have to eternally grateful. I just can't think how anyone could imagine a stroppy multi-millionairess who is the only heir to a massive music legend could possibly be 'beard' material. Why the likes of ddimond and zonen continue to insist the marriage wasn't real just reeks of self-delusion and closed-mindedness - less important for a hack reporter i suppose, but for a state prosecutor pretty outrageous.

Re our factsheet, can i just say that we are going to have to try and keep things as simple as we can as the allegation narrative, esp the chandler case, is horribly complicated. It's like a legal cat and mouse game played for incredibly high stakes. When you compare it to other highprofile p*do cases it is ridiculous. With polanski, the underage girl is drugged and assualted one afternoon, she goes home and confides in her boyfriend, mother overhears the conversation and marches daughter down to police station. With jeffrey epstein, a powerful and fabuously well connected us financier (read about him in uk as he was a pal of prince andrew) he was into underage girls and when he made inappropriate moves on one girl, her mother marched off to the police station. No blackmail, no film deals, no psychiatrist reports, no shady lawyers, no waiting. The difference is very stark. These are what you would consider tobe 'normal' reactions to your children being exploited by a predator.

 

[bluetopez]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Really the JRT book is mention in the Glenda tapes? lol ...I must have not paid that part any attention? But, I do remember him mentioning La Toya's book. Then I really wondered who told RJT that stuff? Some things like the way Joe treated him was true in the book and we know that for sure because eventually MJ said so himself. But, other things said in the book are left with no proof really. Either way I don't like this guy who calls himself MJs "friend" and then turns around and praises Dimond and Zonen. He thought MJ was truly goin to jail and that was sick. And I already believed the relationship and marriage MJ had with Lisa Marie. Never needed JRT to help with any of that. Strange that some fans do though. Shoot Donald Trump is a better source on MJ and Lisa if fans really need any! lol

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I'm sure i read jrt saying mj had offered him $l/2million to abort his book back before he first published it in '91, rather than boasting about it being 'endorsed.' Actually maybe jrt said both things at different times to different audiences - he tends to blow in the wind.

I don't remember him offering JRT money, the tabloids reported he had offered LaToya $5 million over her book and Margaret Maldonado said if Mike had offered Toya $5 mill she would've given her book to him in a heartbeat... of course Toya's book didn't turn out negative on Mike at all.

It's sad that the fact jrt wrote about mj/lmp's marriage as 'real' means that mj fans have to eternally grateful. I just can't think how anyone could imagine a stroppy multi-millionairess who is the only heir to a massive music legend could possibly be 'beard' material. Why the likes of ddimond and zonen continue to insist the marriage wasn't real just reeks of self-delusion and closed-mindedness - less important for a hack reporter i suppose, but for a state prosecutor pretty outrageous.

Right? People have to try and use Scientology and all these other things, if Mike wanted a beard he could've had anyone. The funny thing about Debbie too is that the only reason the world knows she exists is because she had been followed and befriended by journalists from News of the World and they had set about taping her talking on the phone to them about her and Michael and how she was pregnant with his baby. In these tapes were she blabs to a journalist she doesn't know is a journalist, she tells them she and Michael had sex. I'd love to know why people believe Debbie would be saying that in private to people when she wasn't supposed to be telling anyone at all about him.

Re our factsheet, can i just say that we are going to have to try and keep things as simple as we can as the allegation narrative, esp the chandler case, is horribly complicated. It's like a legal cat and mouse game played for incredibly high stakes. When you compare it to other highprofile p*do cases it is ridiculous. With polanski, the underage girl is drugged and assualted one afternoon, she goes home and confides in her boyfriend, mother overhears the conversation and marches daughter down to police station. With jeffrey epstein, a powerful and fabuously well connected us financier (read about him in uk as he was a pal of prince andrew) he was into underage girls and when he made inappropriate moves on one girl, her mother marched off to the police station. No blackmail, no film deals, no psychiatrist reports, no shady lawyers, no waiting. The difference is very stark. These are what you would consider tobe 'normal' reactions to your children being exploited by a predator.

I think comparing him to other high profile actual child molesters would be a good thing. People want to stay away from him and Sadunsky but I think the contrast between their cases even now is stark and when Sadunsky's trial comes along MJ's name is again gonna be dragged in. I think Sadunsky's lawyer even said Sadunsky would shower and help apply soap to some boys bodies sometimes - I mean, people compare admissions like that to MJ saying it's okay to share your bed, which is such a desperate leap, and I can't imagine why any innocent man would feel the need to admit when forced through legal means that he does indeed shower and soap boys. Mike never admitted or conceded anything about the Arvizo case.


The stuff about Joe in JRT's book.... issues with Joe had been known for a while, there were reports in the early 80s about it, Mike fired Joe after Thriller which made people talk, Michael tells the first Moonwalk editor about it and calls it "abuse", talks about it in Moonwalk a little, LaToya talks about it... so most of that was known before JRT came along, it would've been easy asking people around Mike about it.


I've authorized everyone who has registered

 

[HIStory]

Thanks for the authorization. I will log in tomorrow. I have to go to bed for today.

I think comparing him to other high profile actual child molesters would be a good thing. People want to stay away from him and Sadunsky but I think the contrast between their cases even now is stark and when Sadunsky's trial comes along MJ's name is again gonna be dragged in. I think Sadunsky's lawyer even said Sadunsky would shower and help apply soap to some boys bodies sometimes - I mean, people compare admissions like that to MJ saying it's okay to share your bed, which is such a desperate leap, and I can't imagine why any innocent man would feel the need to admit when forced through legal means that he does indeed shower and soap boys. Mike never admitted or conceded anything about the Arvizo case.

I have just seen this documentary (see below). It's about a Catholic priest who molested children (both girls and boys) and the church's cover-up. In the documentary you see both the molester and the victims interviewed.

Some points you can make:

- It's said in the documentary that the guy said through those 30 years while he was a priest he spent at least as much time with preperating molestation than with his job. It was something that was on his mind 24/7!
"In a 2005 videotaped deposition, O'Grady claimed he abused at least as many as 25 children in and around Northern California.[3]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_O'Grady

Now compare that to the number of alleged victims Michael "had"! Three and ALL of highly dubious credibility! ALL with a priority for money, selling books (Chandlers), getting paid by tabloids (Francias), a history of lying under oath (Arvizos). On the other hand we had a DA who was chasing "victims" for a decade, sent officers abroad to talk to kids whom MJ have been in contact with, set up a websites for victims to come forward - and he found nothing. MJ's FBI files are also available, he's been investigated for a decade, every stone was turned, yet they found nothing.

The very fact that although Michael was surrounded by children virtually all the time, yet all they could come up with was three highly dubious accusers with motives to lie and ridiculous allegations - while all other kids the police interviewed (and they were dozens) said nothing inappropriate or even suspicious ever happened, tells us that he was no pedophile. Pedophiles cannot control themselves, whenever they have a chance they will strike. If he had been a pedophile he would have molested Frank Cascio, Brett Barnes, Wade Robson, Mac - all of them! Haters actually know that and that is why they make up all kind of nonsense fantasy stories about these guys.

- Look at the victims. Look at their families in this documentary! This is how real victims and their families behave! They aren't cracking jokes on the stand (Arvizo). They don't say things like: “Had Michael paid the twenty million dollars demanded of him in August, rather than the following January, he might have spent the next ten years as the world’s most famous entertainer, instead of the world’s most infamous child molester” (Chandler). They'd rather want to kill the bastard if they could!

And since the documentary - in 2010:

Convicted pedophile priest Oliver O'Grady, who served at St. Anne's Catholic Church in the 1970s, was arrested on Friday on charges of possessing thousands of pictures of child pornography, according to the Dublin Times newspaper in Ireland and Catholic canon lawyer Patrick Wall.

O'Grady was arrested at his Dublin hostel just after 7 a.m. Ireland time, the Times reported. Authorities found child pornography photos on O'Grady's laptop and a hard drive, the newspaper reported.


​

http://www.lodinews.com/news/article_b5377df5-cb06-5c5b-93a4-c4a4af74a8ae.html

Like I said, pedophiles just cannot control themselves!


[video=youtube;5cYv9wKH7CE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cYv9wKH7CE&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[bluetopez]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

^ It's so unfair how many in the media and many in the general public always portray MJ as the poster boy for Pedophiles. They totally ignore the real pedo's. I wish some would put more effort in talking about those catholic priest, Roman Polanski and cases like their's instead. And stop brainwashin people against MJ all the time like they did recently with the Sadunsky case and comparing the two. So fustrating!

 

[HIStory]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I logged into the new board and posted some answers there.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

^What new board?