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Did Jordan Chandler Admit That MJ Did Not Molest Him?

Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

They were def corrupt. Because how else can anyway explain the cops lying and cussing to Francia about MJ allegedly molesting Culkin and saying the Cascio's were in danger too just to get Jason to accuse MJ with out any proof. That is not how u conduct an investigation by using lies and intimidation, especially on a child. I do believe that Jason was made to lie cuase he was scarred at first! But, then saw the money he and his mom can make out of this and then became an evil ass hole like the rest.

There was no excuse for him as an adult to walk his ass into court and continue that lie. Knowing damn well that he was forced to make those damn allegations up in the first place, then later agreed to them for greed. All he displayed was that he was even weaker then he was as child. No backbone. A youth minister my ass dude! U sinned yo ass straight to hell for sho in 05 with all the B.S!
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

respect77 said:
I think they were corrupt. Because I cannot imagine that they were really so stupid that they didn't see through these accusers. But then hatred and bias can do odd things with people's judgement, so maybe it was one of those cases.
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I think they were corrupt too. They didn't even care about who Feldman said abused him. And then think about Harvey Levin & Jane Velez Mitchell - they certainly know who Corey Feldman named as his abuser too. Talk about cover up. :mat:
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

bluetopez said:
They were def corrupt. Because how else can anyway explain the cops lying and cussing to Francia about MJ allegedly molesting Culkin and saying the Cascio's were in danger too just to get Jason to accuse MJ with out any proof. That is not how u conduct an investigation by using lies and intimidation, especially on a child. I do believe that Jason was made to lie cuase he was scarred at first! But, then saw the money he and his mom can make out of this and then became an evil ass hole like the rest.

There was no excuse for him as an adult to walk his ass into court and continue that lie. Knowing damn well that he was forced to make those damn allegations up in the first place, then later agreed to them for greed. All he displayed was that he was even weaker then he was as child. No backbone. A youth minister my ass dude! U sinned yo ass straight to hell for sho in 05 with all the B.S!
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Totally agree. I think Francia came into court thinking he would get money also.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

bluetopez said:
They were def corrupt. Because how else can anyway explain the cops lying and cussing to Francia about MJ allegedly molesting Culkin and saying the Cascio's were in danger too just to get Jason to accuse MJ with out any proof. That is not how u conduct an investigation by using lies and intimidation, especially on a child. I do believe that Jason was made to lie cuase he was scarred at first! But, then saw the money he and his mom can make out of this and then became an evil ass hole like the rest.

There was no excuse for him as an adult to walk his ass into court and continue that lie. Knowing damn well that he was forced to make those damn allegations up in the first place, then later agreed to them for greed. All he displayed was that he was even weaker then he was as child. No backbone. A youth minister my ass dude! U sinned yo ass straight to hell for sho in 05 with all the B.S!
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Originally Jason was manipulated into lying and - like he said in court in 2005 - he was made say things by the police in 1993-1994 he didn't want to say. But yeah, then his mom realized they can make money of the story and like the Chandlers they can extort money out of Michael in the form of a settlement, which they eventually did. From then on, I think, there was no way back for them. And I'm sure Sneddon explained that to them very emphatically: "if you retract your story Michael Jackson may sue you - or we may go after you...". Let's not forget the Francias were illegal immigrants. So I can imagine Sneddon could blackmail them with that too.

To me even in 2005 it seemed like Jason didn't want to be there. IMO he was forced and blackmailed into giving a testimony by Sneddon - with the things I mentioned above. The prosecution was desperate because they simply did not have other "victims". And that would be highly uncharacteristic for a pedophile. Pedophiles don't abuse only one kid per decade. So they needed Francia like hell. Especially after Jordan Chandler turned them down too. I'm sure they used everything in their power (threats, blackmail, promises) to get Francia on that stand.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

It's really hard to say which is it when it comes to the Francia's really. I mean look at his mom Blanca she was enjoying being on Hardcopy with her stupid smile tellin lies. So I doubt it was Just Sneedon presser and his people pressuring Jason, it was his mamma too. But, either way I see no excuse for his own actions as an adult. In the end it was his own choice to go up their on the stand under oath and lie!
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

bluetopez said:
It's really hard to say which is it when it comes to the Francia's really. I mean look at his mom Blanca she was enjoying being on Hardcopy with her stupid smile tellin lies. So I doubt it was Just Sneedon presser and his people pressuring Jason, it was his mamma too. But, either way I see no excuse for his own actions as an adult. In the end it was his own choice to go up their on the stand under oath and lie!
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I believe I read where she was paid $20,000 by Hard Copy & I thought Cochran said she was paid also by National Enquirer. I think she was concerned when the police interviewed her son but I think $$$$$ took over. She was happy to take it, imo.

I think Jason thought he could get a payday again.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Agreed, re jason. I imagine the pressure sneddon put him and his mother under would be immense once they knew jc wasn't going to testify as all the other "victims" were defence witnesses. JFrancia couldn't sue again, but on a guilty verdict his story would sell for loads in the media. That would be the big payday these pros witnesses would be looking for. Same with the graphic little visual that one of the neverland 5 used, of jchandler being molested by a peter pan statue, - you could see on a guilty verdict the media using this as the motif for the whole trial and he giving his 'exclusive' to the tabloids. Janet Arvizo had a book deal already set up dependent on a guilty verdict.
 
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Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Diane Dimond, Bob Jones/Stacy Brown, all had book deals long before the trial ended, in fact both of them had book deals before the trial had even begun. Bob in 2004 and Diane sealed her book deal in January 2005. There was one of the chefs or whoever from the Neverland 5/Hayvenhurst 3 who also was shilling a book about what they knew back then, as well as some guy who worked as security who wrote some cheap online book too about how he'd never seen anything except - gasp - MJ sat close to kids while on the Neverland rides.

I definitely believe they were all hoping on cashing in with tabloid deals on a guilty verdict. Not to mention Oprah news rounds. The National Enquirer even told the Newtron brothers they might have to do an Oprah show. Diane sold Blanca's story to NE in 1993. Diane also sold all the court documents she got her hands on back then to other media outlets, she made a lot of money.

My biggest problem right now is how disappointed I am seeing fans defending Michael on other sites and seeing how uninformed they are. MJ's public perception can only change because of fans informing people because unfortunately nobody else seems willing to do it.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

^^ I agree.

I think most fans just feel overwhelemed by the subject because it brings back so horrible memories and they don't like to think about that. However we have to realize that this will always remain the stumbling block for many people to accept Michael as a good person or even as an artist, if we can't defend him effectively. Under the article that Joe Vogel wrote for The Atlantic the other day it took people about five comments for someone to bring up the allegations and then hijack the conversation in that direction. There were some good counters but there were very uninformed fans too. Fans who tried to defend him by saying Jordan recanted his story, for example, when that was just an internet hoax. So no matter how unpleasant subject it is, fans should educate themselves, because Michael was INNOCENT and there are countless of facts proving that! You don't have to rely on Jordan's non-existent recantation to defend Michael!

I wish there would be some kind of pinned thread for this subject where all the facts could be collected and fans could use it as a resource (much like there is such a thread for vitiligo). And perhaps it shouldn't be in the Controversy section either, but in some more visited and visible section.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I agree. I think there should be some forum even where fans could be directed where they could ask questions and be able to thoroughly discuss everything.

VindicateMJ is a great blog and the people there are very helpful but it can be hard keeping track of all the info and discussion in the comments. Maybe they could consider opening a forum where they could moderate the discussion.

It seems like too many just know a hand full of details and no matter how well meaning they may be, we have to realize that there are people who are seeking to still actively trash MJ and keep the allegations alive and they know "facts" that they can bring up and unless you know how to counter them properly then they will look more credible. What's funny is when you can intelligently counter them, they will always end up looking unstable and crazy and expose their real intentions.

I agree about it being too painful but MJ fans really are all MJ has right now to speak out for him. I know it can seem pointless engaging people online, but it does have an effect, it really does. Maybe not for the person you're speaking to, but for people lurking it can. If someone scrolls down and reads just one thing about the allegations that they didn't know about, it can help MJ and help spread that piece of info and make people reconsider how easily they came to a judgement about him.

Sometimes I think "But MJ has so many fans, how come it's only ever 1 or 2 people that defends him on these sites?" and then I see some fans having some huge argument somewhere about how much they hate this person in his life or something to do with the estate or whatever else and they don't seem to care about the facts about him that will change opinions. The allegations destroyed his life, they have an effect on his children, his legacy. I feel like the biggest responsibility fans, friends, family has is in challenging that one particular aspect.

I'm disheartened that 3 years on and it seems so many people are still so uninformed.

Like, right now Chris Brown is making headlines over whether people can forget the Rihanna incident and of course, MJ is brought up as someone who people will even be willing to overlook him molesting children to still be a fan of his.

I imagine the Sadunsky trial is gonna drag his name up and down the media outlets, websites, forums once again.
 
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Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

I agree about VindicateMJ - there should be some link to a site with simple bullet points that all fans can access and use to educate people.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

VindicateMJ is good and I'm grateful for their work. Problem is however they have VERY long articles and the whole website is rather disorganized - ie. it's difficult to find past articles and which info was in which article. Most people don't have the attention span to read so long articles online.

I think what we should do here is making shorter and more to the point summaries of the relevant facts (and then we can also give links to VMJ for further exploration).

I have exams now, but in March I should be able to help with such a project.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Completely agree - i think the allegations and the refuting of them is one of the most important things a fan can do and i wd be willing to help. Re the comment about the posts under the vogel article and the inaccurate points raised as defending mj eg jordan's confession - we can also thank jermaine and mrs j for this. At every interview they mention this internet confession - jermaine esp during his book tour in the uk - it drove me mad as they have access to such a large audience compared to fans. For the jermaine q and a i asked why he insists on repeating this lie when there are so many other arguments to be used - hope ivy includes it in her questions and he takes notice.

While we're on the subject of inaccurate myths re the allegations, one thing i noticed in the couple of pages of vogel comments that i read, and elsewhere, is the belief in a conspiracy by the arvizos to take down mj hatched before they even met him. It all stems from them visiting a lawyer named feldman in something like 2000. It was determined in a redirect during the 05 trial that it was a different feldman to the feldman of the chandler case and it was just a coincidence he had the same surname. The arvizos were clearly just (not v bright) opportunists not master strategists, and i hate when this false argument is used by fans.
 
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Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Is this thread still alive? Still hating on poor Jordie lol. Move on, there nothin to see here.

EDIT: WTF, i didnt join 2011, i joined 2003. Why is it changed??

Oh i see that its like that for everyone. Someone fucked up really bad.
 
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Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Just following MJs spirit.
Its all about LOVE. L.O.V.E.

My new favourite qoute.:D
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

HakaVelli said:
Is this thread still alive? Still hating on poor Jordie lol. Move on, there nothin to see here.

EDIT: WTF, i didnt join 2011, i joined 2003. Why is it changed??

Oh i see that its like that for everyone. Someone fucked up really bad.
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It's still alive beacuse we care about the truth and not ignorant rants like u give with no proof! TROLL!
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

HakaVelli don't get all sentimental on me because it's Valentines's day! -_- lmao!
 
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Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

bluetopez said:
HakaVelli don't get all sentimental on me because it's Valentines's day! -_- lmao!
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HakaVelli, but you can call me whatever you want.:wub:


OnT: Anyway, the real sleazeball is Arvizo, who i dont view as a victim, because he seemed to be in on the scam all the time. Especially how he leaned on MJs shoulder
on "living with michael jackson" like he was preparing for evidence or somethin.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Acafan said:
I agree about VindicateMJ - there should be some link to a site with simple bullet points that all fans can access and use to educate people.
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respect77 said:
VindicateMJ is good and I'm grateful for their work. Problem is however they have VERY long articles and the whole website is rather disorganized - ie. it's difficult to find past articles and which info was in which article. Most people don't have the attention span to read so long articles online.

I think what we should do here is making shorter and more to the point summaries of the relevant facts (and then we can also give links to VMJ for further exploration).

I have exams now, but in March I should be able to help with such a project.
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There's the Surftofind MJ site which I can't find right now, but it contains everything. The only problem is that it needs to be updated and it needs sourcing. People don't believe when people say "Oh this isn't true because this this and this", but if you say "this isn't true, here's a quote and here's a link to the court document, etc" people can't argue their way out of it. The fact is there for them to see clear as day.

So maybe we could get together and do something like that.

I have my blog I'd be willing to host it on/help with formatting etc.

If we could get a bunch of the really knowledgeable fans from different sites to come together and work on something it would be awesome.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

HakaVelli said:
HakaVelli, but you can call me whatever you want.:wub:


OnT: Anyway, the real sleazeball is Arvizo, who i dont view as a victim, because he seemed to be in on the scam all the time. Especially how he leaned on MJs shoulder
on "living with michael jackson" like he was preparing for evidence or somethin.
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Jordan is in his 30's. Hard to argue any longer that he was a victim at one point of his parent(s). At the age of 25 he had the choice to tell the truth infront of a jury! He opted not too & instead went on a vacation with his girlfriend. Not given two sh*t about MJ's fate but, only himself!
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

la_cienega said:
There's the Surftofind MJ site which I can't find right now, but it contains everything. The only problem is that it needs to be updated and it needs sourcing. People don't believe when people say "Oh this isn't true because this this and this", but if you say "this isn't true, here's a quote and here's a link to the court document, etc" people can't argue their way out of it. The fact is there for them to see clear as day.

So maybe we could get together and do something like that.

I have my blog I'd be willing to host it on/help with formatting etc.

If we could get a bunch of the really knowledgeable fans from different sites to come together and work on something it would be awesome.
Click to expand...

I'm in, but like I said I can only contribute from March, since I'm having exams now.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

la_cienega said:
There's the Surftofind MJ site which I can't find right now, but it contains everything. The only problem is that it needs to be updated and it needs sourcing. People don't believe when people say "Oh this isn't true because this this and this", but if you say "this isn't true, here's a quote and here's a link to the court document, etc" people can't argue their way out of it. The fact is there for them to see clear as day.

So maybe we could get together and do something like that.

I have my blog I'd be willing to host it on/help with formatting etc.

If we could get a bunch of the really knowledgeable fans from different sites to come together and work on something it would be awesome.
Click to expand...

I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you guys about this, but if I can help in anyway, let me know. If I have some free time, I'll be glad to help.
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

same for me. i'm not knowledgeable and am still learning but want to help in anyway i can
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

You know the drawing of Michael's penis that Jordie supposedly drew, where did it come from again, Chandler's book or VG's? The description of Michael being circumcised comes from the affidavit that the Smoking Gun and Bob Jones/Stacy Brown both cited, and Victor Gutierrez and Ray Chandler also both mentioned it didn't they? Was it also printed in the papers in 1994?

And Katherine was called in to the grand jury in 1994 to be asked about Michael's appearance re: the photos, right?

And in 2005 they only wanted to submit the photos of Michael with Sneddon's claim they matched but they did not wish to submit Jordan's description, right?

And does anyone have the full stories or links to the fights Evan had with Schwartz? Didn't he also abuse another girlfriend?

And Frank Cascio, Teddy Riley, Geraldine Hughes, Pellicano were all around Jordan in 1993 and heard him saying things about his father, is there anyone else who was also around Jordan or met him?

Thanks!
 
Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

And does anyone know how to work wikipedia? Someone really needs to clean up their stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michael_Jackson

For example, Taraborrelli's note that Jordan's description of Michael's blotches matched is untrue: the only thing was that Jordan said Michael was splotchy, not that the exact spots matched. Also, a 13 year old not being able to tell a circumcised penis from an uncircumcised one: Jordan was Jewish, so that should be noted, which means he was likely to be circumcised himself.

And what's the point of this opinion having been added?

Jackson's friend Rabbi Shmuley Boteach said "I never believed the allegations against him brought by the family of Gavin Arvizo" but added "I will, however, confess to having been severely jolted by the testimony of Jordy Chandler's mom, the mother of the first alleged victim, in Michael's 2005 trial. It did seem from her testimony that Michael was erotically obsessed with her son......he may have come to associate adolescent sexuality with purity and innocence. But none of this is anything more than uncorroborated speculation."[132] Jackson was found unanimously not guilty of all charges by the jury on June 13, 2005.[74]
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Re: Did Jordan Chandler admit that MJ did not mlest him

Your questions are phd standard in mj allegations. I can only make comments on a couple of points.

The toadstool apparently made its first appearance in vg's book.

The fact that the accuracy or not of jc's description is not definitive ie in an official document is really telling. It seems only sneddon has access to both the desc by jc and the photos and all he can say in a 05 court document is that this splotch in the 'same relative location' - hardly a ringing endorsement, and there's no mention of circumcision. I read on vindicatemj that the affidavit with jc's desc by SB sheriff deputy Linden is missing - apparently not even mj's lawyers saw it when he had the strip search. Secondary sources that you mentioned eg smoking gun etc quote it with the description of splotches and the fact jc said mj was circumcised. Also liza campbell, darkest hour for kop, quote from it, that was published in '94. I've got the jrt magic and madness 03 edition, and he mentions the circumcision discrepency, but just checked on jetzi and it's not in his 94 edition.

I think it's significant that the original evidence for the match - the police interview by linden - which wd be in the possession of the sbda's office hasn't been published. If it was a match it would be shouted from the rooftops surely and used against mj ie criminal charges or at least leaked to the media. Vindicate mj mentioned a year or 2 ago that the smoking gun article on it had been pulled. That's a good point about Sneddon's late introduction of the photos into the 05 trial only appearing to be just the photos and his own declaration. But maybe jc's declaration couldn't be introduced as it couldn't be x-examined.

Re people around jordan in those months in '93. One family who spent time with mj were germans, a widow and her 2 daughters and one son who travelled with mj on his dangerous tour. The boy was around 10yrs old and the youngest billionaire in the world having inherited over $2bn when his father died when he was 8 - just the type of vulnarable, easy to buy off 'victim' that predators like mj tend to go for. The daughter wrote after mj died that they all visited neverland during the time jordan was there. The way that period is written about, it's as if it was some obsessional relationship just between mj and jc, whereas we know it was a relationship with the whole family and there were other families around too in those few months.
 
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