Diana Ross V The Supremes, What's the problem?

[Datsymay]

I don't understand why there is so much hate towards Ms Ross by fans of members of The Supremes. What happened? Why the animosity? Please fill me in.:scratch:

 

[troubleman84]

The history is kind of complicated.

See all Supremes fans know and understand that Florence Ballard was the founder of the group. She was the one who was suggested by Paul Williams and Eddie Kendricks before they became Temptations to form a singing group in which their manager Milt Jenkins formed as a sister group to the group Paul and Eddie fronted. Flo also gave the girls their name (before 1961 they were known as "The Primettes").

And by many accounts was the group's original lead singer. When they joined Motown in 1961, the group shared leads more often. Diana actually sung on a lot of songs as lead but Florence Ballard also sung some leads on unreleased material around the time. In 1962, '63, the makeup of the Supremes changed when Berry Gordy, who was attracted to Diana's ambition (apparently they shared the same ambition to become hugely successful), decided that Diana become the official lead, which neither Flo nor Mary rejected at first.

By 1966, however, there was tension within the group especially after word leaked that Diana and Berry were "doing some hanky-panky". Flo felt like she was cut out of her own group and drank as a source of rebellion. All Mary could do was sit there and watch as the group disintegrated.

Then Berry began cutting Flo's leads from Supremes shows. For like two years, Flo was known to fans for singing the Barbra Streisand standard "People" (though Diana had a lead near the end of the song) and after complaining of hoarseness, Berry instead of allowing Flo to recover vocally for the song, found out that Diana would sing the entire song.

This angered Supremes fans, who thought Diana was the cause of Flo being ousted by the group in 1967. They felt she wasn't a true friend, that's why at Flo's funeral, after she died from coronary problems in 1976, they booed Diana when she came to the funeral. They also felt Diana was wrong for reportedly pushing Mary during their "reunion" at Motown 25 in 1983.

Ever since Mary's "Dreamgirl" came out, Diana has been referred to as someone who "slept her way to the top".

Diana's fans have tried to defend Diana but they always get screamed at, lol. Especially when Diana's fans attacked Mary for her actions, lol.

It's a complicated story.

 

[DuranDuran]

I don't understand why there is so much hate towards Ms Ross by fans of members of The Supremes. What happened? Why the animosity? Please fill me in.:scratch:

If you read Mary Wilson's 2 books, you'll know why. In some editions, the books are combined. Some of the other acts didn't like Diane either, like Gladys Knight & Martha Reeves. Let's just say that "Miss Ross" wasn't very kind to people, and some Motown performers disliked that Berry Gordy put her over everybody else such as Brenda Holloway, The Spinners, and Kim Weston. During the Motown 25 taping, Diane got mad at Mary for some reason and pushed her in front of the entire audience and cameras. Gordy has the footage in a vault, never to be seen again. Fans of Flo Ballard really dislike Diane, as they feel that Diane & Gordy not letting her do leads and kicking her out of the Supremes (Flo created the group), and Gordy blacklisting her contributed Flo's downfall and death. Patti Labelle was mad at Diane because she took Cindy Birdsong from her group The Bluebells.

 

[Datsymay]

Oh, dear. This sounds interesting. looks like I have some reading to do. Thank you both very much. I really do not know anything abvout the life and times of the Supremes. Diana is about the only name I know. I also love her singing very much. i am a fan. I will keep an open mind and read up on this story.

 

[DuranDuran]

Also Gladys Knight 1st discovered the Jacksons (Bobby Taylor also saw them before Diane), and not Diane, but she gets the credit for it. Gladys was ignored by Gordy. Well Marlon told the truth in The Legend Continues special.

 

[Datsymay]

Also Gladys Knight 1st discovered the Jacksons (Bobby Taylor also saw them before Diane), and not Diane, but she gets the credit for it. Gladys was ignored by Gordy. Well Marlon told the truth in The Legend Continues special.

What did Marlon say?

 

[DuranDuran]

I don't remember his exact words because I haven't seen it in a long time, I have to watch the tape. I hardly ever use the VCR, lol. But it wasn't Diana. Diana was used to introduce them because she was the bigger name and Gordy figured would get more publicity than Gladys Knight or Bobby Taylor.

 

[troubleman84]

Yeah, Suzanne de Passe said that Diana was hired by Berry to give the Jackson 5 a big boost as well as her upcoming solo career a big boost, and when people found out she really didn't discover them, she was the major one to be blamed. Forget that Berry Gordy pulled her strings to do it. She basically said Diana got egg in her face.

Diana also pulled some sh*t like picking up the same dresses her group rivals were wearing for the Supremes. When artists like Martha Reeves and Patti LaBelle discovered what she was doing, they threatened her with bodily harm. Martha and her Vandellas came charging at Diana, Mary and Flo (the latter two didn't find out until later that Diana had looked around the other groups' dressing rooms) and Patti said several times she wanted to "cut that heifer (Diana)", lol.

 

[Datsymay]

That's OK. I know about that story anyway, and Diana did explain that in an interview quite recently here in Britain.

 

[Datsymay]

Yeah, Suzanne de Passe said that Diana was hired by Berry to give the Jackson 5 a big boost as well as her upcoming solo career a big boost, and when people found out she really didn't discover them, she was the major one to be blamed. Forget that Berry Gordy pulled her strings to do it. She basically said Diana got egg in her face.

Diana also pulled some sh*t like picking up the same dresses her group rivals were wearing for the Supremes. When artists like Martha Reeves and Patti LaBelle discovered what she was doing, they threatened her with bodily harm. Martha and her Vandellas came charging at Diana, Mary and Flo (the latter two didn't find out until later that Diana had looked around the other groups' dressing rooms) and Patti said several times she wanted to "cut that heifer (Diana)", lol.

Sounds like a soap opera to me. Them were the good old days.:doh:

 

[troubleman84]

Some Motown fans think the partial reason for Diana's success with the Supremes was due to Mary Wells' royalties used to build the group's career (they were still struggling when "My Guy" hit #1). And some say that was a reason why Mary Wells wanted out of Motown.

 

[troubleman84]

Sounds like a soap opera to me. Them were the good old days.:doh:

Here's some more street ish:

It was once reported, I think on "Call Me Miss Ross", that Diana Ross had a rivalry with Gladys Horton of the Marvelettes. Apparently she was jealous that the Marvelettes got top bill over them (due to the fact the Marvelettes had the number-one hit and some top ten smashes between 1961-1962). Anyway, during one of the first Motortown Revues, Diana was in her car when she spotted Gladys and threatened to run her over. Gladys said something in retaliation like "leave me alone" or something, Diana flipped her the bird and drove her car near Gladys' direction. Luckily Gladys escaped unharmed, lol.

Diana was reportedly very driven to succeed no matter what it took. Stories like that have helped gave her a negative image in the press.

 

[Datsymay]

Too many people lay claim to discovering the jacksons. Even James Brown claimed that too. the fact of the matter was that joe and katherine discovered them and Joe went out shopping his group. Joe had already consulted with motown and he also sought out james Brown and he was doing shows at the apollo. He even had a contract with steeltown and already set up a tv intervoew when he went to motown to audition. No body at Motown discovered the jacksons. they were already out there performing at the chitlins and elsewhere. They were already known when ther got to Motown.
Also, Joe jackson was a musician who already knew the rioght strings to pull. He knew many of the people who became greats later on. Jackie wilson, james brown little richards were all friends of joe before they became famous.

 

[Datsymay]

Here's some more street ish:

It was once reported, I think on "Call Me Miss Ross", that Diana Ross had a rivalry with Gladys Horton of the Marvelettes. Apparently she was jealous that the Marvelettes got top bill over them (due to the fact the Marvelettes had the number-one hit and some top ten smashes between 1961-1962). Anyway, during one of the first Motortown Revues, Diana was in her car when she spotted Gladys and threatened to run her over. Gladys said something in retaliation like "leave me alone" or something, Diana flipped her the bird and drove her car near Gladys' direction. Luckily Gladys escaped unharmed, lol.

Diana was reportedly very driven to succeed no matter what it took. Stories like that have helped gave her a negative image in the press.

:hysterical: More please.

 

[Datsymay]

What do Motown fans feel about Berry gordy? Do they blame him for any of this? I gather that Joe wasn't too fund of Berry anyway cause he wanted to split up the group where as Joe wanted them to be together.

 

[troubleman84]

What do Motown fans feel about Berry gordy? Do they blame him for any of this? I gather that Joe wasn't too fund of Berry anyway cause he wanted to split up the group where as Joe wanted them to be together.

Some think he's Beezlebub, lol. I know a lot of folks are still mad at him for not paying them their royalties from Motown recordings (the Jacksons included). Marvin had a very contentious relationship with Berry for more than 20 years despite the fact he married Berry's sister Anna, he didn't surely feel welcome in the Gordy home.

And yeah Berry has been to blame for a lot of the stuff that has went down. In fact they blame his relationship with Diana for being the reason the other Motown stars stopped getting promoted after 1967.

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Who cares. Diana Ross made the Supremes the success they were. And Mary Wilson is also the one who over the years has refused to budge even a bit, refusing to work with Diana or cooporate when they tried to reunite, etc... Just sound's like jealousy to me, considering Diana Ross was Motown's biggest star at the time.

 

[DuranDuran]

Even James Brown claimed that too.

James discovered Tammi Terrell, and beat her up when they were dating. She was around 16. Later she also dated David Ruffin, who also hit her. It's been said that James beat her so bad that this caused her tumor later on.

Nobody at Motown discovered the jacksons.

Gladys did tell Gordy about the group 1st. Lots of acts who did the Chitlin' Circuit didn't get signed, so wasn't "discovered". Steeltown was a local label so doesn't count. It's like some rappers getting their start selling homemade tapes out of their trunk.

 

[DuranDuran]

Who cares. Diana Ross made the Supremes the success they were. And Mary Wilson is also the one who over the years has refused to budge even a bit, refusing to work with Diana or cooporate when they tried to reunite, etc... Just sound's like jealousy to me, considering Diana Ross was Motown's biggest star at the time.

That was the point, all the other Motown acts disliked that Gordy was spending a lot of money on promoting her because she was sleeping with the boss (and felt she was a weak singer, David Ruffin in particular thought this), and not promoting them. She was bigger because she got promoted.

 

[DuranDuran]

What do Motown fans feel about Berry gordy? Do they blame him for any of this? I gather that Joe wasn't too fund of Berry anyway cause he wanted to split up the group where as Joe wanted them to be together.

Joe was angry about Jermaine marrying Hazel.

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

That was the point, all the other Motown acts disliked that Gordy was spending a lot of money on promoting her (and felt she was a weak singer, David Ruffin in particular thought this), and not promoting them. She was bigger because she got promoted.

Yeah, but she took. You can promote someone as much as you please, but if the public isn't feeling them, it won't matter in the long run. Diana is very, very talented. She's a very good performing artist and an excellent stylist with the prettiest voice.

 

[troubleman84]

Berry Gordy played Motown like a popularity contest or something, like whoever intrigued his interest, he'll pick that person. To him, no one shared his ambition and his goal more than Diana Ross. That's why she did what she did so she could also earn her place. When she realized her ambition was being used for Berry Gordy's interest, that's when she left Motown.

 

[troubleman84]

That was the point, all the other Motown acts disliked that Gordy was spending a lot of money on promoting her because she was sleeping with the boss (and felt she was a weak singer, David Ruffin in particular thought this), and not promoting them. She was bigger because she got promoted.

I remember some story in a former Supremes/Temptations roadie's book that David Ruffin said to him that he went to Diana and gave her a paper and pen and told her to write all the men who she didn't sleep with. LOL!

 

[troubleman84]

Here's another story:

During a Motown rehearsal, during breaks, Diana Ross always retreated to her dressing room. She never socialized with any of her peers. Later, she would complain to Berry Gordy, "Those people hate my guts and I don't know why." She was lonely.

Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong and the Temptations sang old doo-wop standards to each other, having a blast. In a dark corner, Diana sat alone, her legs crossed and her arms folded. Whenever anyone would look her way, she would avert her eyes and act uninterested. But when she didn't think anyone was watching, her mouth would move along to the song lyrics and she would bop her head.

Later that day, Martha & The Vandellas stopped by. They joined the Tempts, Cindy and Mary for a warm reunion.

Suddenly, Diana's dressing room door swung open. "Will you please shut the hell up. I am trying to rest in here!" she exclaimed, and then she slammed the door shut.

"What's her problem?" one of the Temptations asked. "Who the hell cares" one of the Vandellas cracked. Then the reunion continued.

Paul Williams spoke up, "If it wasn't for me, Miss Ross would still be in the Detroit ghetto and now I can't even have a conversation with her unless I clear it with six people.

Oddly, Diana Ross had slapped Eddie Kendricks in front of everyone during a prior rehearsal and Kendricks never revealed what happened between the two of them.

Source: "Call Her Miss Ross," by J. Randy Taraborrelli

----
Of course the source is questionable but apparently he interviewed the Motown artists so... Smokey Robinson was one of the only ones who tried to defend her after the initial book came out.

 

[mistermaxxx]

What do Motown fans feel about Berry gordy? Do they blame him for any of this? I gather that Joe wasn't too fund of Berry anyway cause he wanted to split up the group where as Joe wanted them to be together.

Gordy didn't catch alot of heat. he pushed and Pimped Diana Ross and sold that story of there kid for many years on that white doctor which was so wrong. Gordy angered artists on the label for not paying cats. Holland,Dozier,Holland and other acts were ticked off and of course acts that bounced.

Joe didn't like the motown machine of pushing MJ and jermaine outward as it ended up being. Gordy always did that with groups if he saw a Money "IT' lead act. Diana Ross was driven and she had the man who was gonna steer her to all the stars and then some.

 

[troubleman84]

Gordy didn't catch alot of heat. he pushed and Pimped Diana Ross and sold that story of there kid for many years on that white doctor which was so wrong. Gordy angered artists on the label for not paying cats. Holland,Dozier,Holland and other acts were ticked off and of course acts that bounced.

Joe didn't like the motown machine of pushing MJ and jermaine outward as it ended up being. Gordy always did that with groups if he saw a Money "IT' lead act. Diana Ross was driven and she had the man who was gonna steer her to all the stars and then some.

Yeah and that made things difficult for all the artists that were in Motown. For many, it had turned into a "family" into "get while you can" and that's why artists who remained in Motown like Marvin and Stevie started looking for reasons to survive in the label by rebelling against the powers that be, as Berry Gordy had become.

 

[Soso Deaf]

Too many people lay claim to discovering the jacksons. Even James Brown claimed that too. the fact of the matter was that joe and katherine discovered them and Joe went out shopping his group. Joe had already consulted with motown and he also sought out james Brown and he was doing shows at the apollo. He even had a contract with steeltown and already set up a tv intervoew when he went to motown to audition. No body at Motown discovered the jacksons. they were already out there performing at the chitlins and elsewhere. They were already known when ther got to Motown.
Also, Joe jackson was a musician who already knew the rioght strings to pull. He knew many of the people who became greats later on. Jackie wilson, james brown little richards were all friends of joe before they became famous.

must u make every subject, topic, thread about mike and the family?

 

[troubleman84]

LOL... I noticed that but I decided not to debate any further than Diana's involvement since the thread is mainly about Diana and her problems with the Supremes and particularly has been a discussion of her problems within the entire Motown label.

 

[Roxanne]

thanks for the interesting info troubleman. :flowers: i love diana so much. shes got such a sweet and tender voice and she seems to be a wonderful person. i love diana's solo stuff more that i do the supremes and to my estimation if it wasn't for diana the supremes wouldn't of had been so successful. she has the perfect voice. :wub:

 

[Datsymay]

thanks for the interesting info troubleman. :flowers: i love diana so much. shes got such a sweet and tender voice and she seems to be a wonderful person. i love diana's solo stuff more that i do the supremes and to my estimation if it wasn't for diana the supremes wouldn't of had been so successful. she has the perfect voice. :wub:

:clapping: Diana is the ultimate diva as far as I am concerned and in my estimation, the real queen of pop.