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'Dangerous' was Michael's artistic peak

gfy123 said:
I can't believe anyone can like The Jacksons more than solo Michael,,, Dangerous is the first Michael album I ever listened to and has always been my favorite by the way.
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I was around during the Jacksons. I saw the TV variety show when it 1st ran. I'm one of the few people here that wanted a Jacksons reunion album instead of a solo album. I wanted the brothers, not Akon or will.i.am or 50 Cent. I prefer real instrumentation to sampling and programming, because that's the era I grew up with. That's why I like the pre-Dangerous material better.

BadEraSexy said:
I adore the Thriller CD, but The Girl Is Mine should have never been the first release or any release as a single, lol. What were they thinking with THAT move?
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At the time Paul was still really popular in selling records. So this is why "The Girl Is Mine" was released 1st. It would have gotten played even if it wasn't a single, so it made sense to make money off of it. Also as far as pop radio was concerned, R&B based artists (i.e. black) had stopped being played for the most part because R&B/funk was considered "disco" or "dance music" (which was thought of as music for blacks & homosexuals) and the 'Disco Sucks' crowd took over. Around that period acts like Christopher Cross & Kenny Rogers was popular on pop radio so "The Girl Is Mine" fit in right with that. So Paul was kinda needed to get on pop radio. You've got to remember Michael was still considered an R&B (black) act. Which is mainly why "Off the Wall" was ignored at the Grammies and also why MTV didn't want to play his videos until CBS threatened to remove their other acts like Journey, who was a really big act on early MTV (they even had a video game, the first musicians to have one). R&B wasn't taken seriously by the mainstream. If you look at the Jacksons' "Triumph" tour footage, most of the audience was black unlike the "Victory" tour which came after "Thriller" made it big. Younger people just assume that Michael was always "King Of Pop" and was always big. The Jacksons mainstream (white) popularity had deteriorated around 1975.
 
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I think "History" was Michael at his artistic peak. It's his most personal album ever imo.
 
DuranDuran said:
I was around during the Jacksons. I saw the TV variety show when it 1st ran. I'm one of the few people here that wanted a Jacksons reunion album instead of a solo album. I wanted the brothers, not Akon or will.i.am or 50 Cent. I prefer real instrumentation to sampling and programming, because that's the era I grew up with. That's why I like the pre-Dangerous material better.


At the time Paul was still really popular in selling records. So this is why "The Girl Is Mine" was released 1st. It would have gotten played even if it wasn't a single, so it made sense to make money off of it. Also as far as pop radio was concerned, R&B based artists (i.e. black) had stopped being played for the most part because R&B/funk was considered "disco" or "dance music" (which was thought of as music for blacks & homosexuals) and the 'Disco Sucks' crowd took over. Around that period acts like Christopher Cross & Kenny Rogers was popular on pop radio so "The Girl Is Mine" fit in right with that. So Paul was kinda needed to get on pop radio. You've got to remember Michael was still considered an R&B (black) act. Which is mainly why "Off the Wall" was ignored at the Grammies and also why MTV didn't want to play his videos until CBS threatened to remove their other acts like Journey, who was a really big act on early MTV (they even had a video game, the first musicians to have one). R&B wasn't taken seriously by the mainstream. If you look at the Jacksons' "Triumph" tour footage, most of the audience was black unlike the "Victory" tour which came after "Thriller" made it big. Younger people just assume that Michael was always "King Of Pop" and was always big. The Jacksons mainstream (white) popularity had deteriorated around 1975.
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makes alot of sense, thanks. It's easy to look back and say what should have been released. But even then critics didn't like it as much and thought that thriller would be a mediocre success. Makes me wonder why they didn't release Beat It right away then, since it was by no means R&B
 
I just listened to Dangerous very carefully and oh my God, it is fine art at its best :wub: Everything about every songs is amazing. It's officially my favourite album ever. The melodies are great, the counter melodies are beautiful, the lyrics are deep and mature. Many genres of music are covered in that album. Pop, rock, classical etc. The songs also covered a wide range of topics.

The album cover is amazing as we all know. I also thought of the music videos and even they are music videos at their best. The whole "Dangerous" project was mindblowing including of course, the Dangerous world tour.

It truly was Michael at his best. I miss him.
 
BadEraSexy said:
makes alot of sense, thanks. It's easy to look back and say what should have been released. But even then critics didn't like it as much and thought that thriller would be a mediocre success. Makes me wonder why they didn't release Beat It right away then, since it was by no means R&B
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Critics don't buy records, and they didn't like Paul McCartney (or light rock) anyway. If "Beat It" was released 1st, then R&B radio would have complained. "The Girl Is Mine" could be played on R&B, pop, and light rock (adult contemporary) stations. Also having a popular white artist (McCartney) helped get it on pop stations rather than doing a duet with Teddy Pendergrass, who was a popular R&B singer then. Besides, it doesn't matter that "Beat It" isn't R&B, Michael was still black, so was not the type of act that was played on Top 40 radio. After disco faded away, black acts were rarely played. Even Stevie Wonder had a hard time. After Mike's success with the "Thriller" album, some black artists were played, but they usually had a watered down pop/R&B hybrid like Billy Ocean or Lionel Richie. Or "blue eyed soul" like Hall & Oates, Wham!, Taylor Dayne, & Culture Club. In the US, hair metal songs like "Beat It" hadn't fully crossed over from rock radio to mainstream pop top 40 yet. So "Beat It" wouldn't have made a good choice for a 1st single anyway. Van Halen was still being played on AOR stations mainly. They crossed over with the album "1984". Hair rock became popular when MTV did and the Christopher Cross, Carole King, James Taylor, & Kenny Rogers type acts died out. Remember video killed the radio star, lol.
 
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I don't think it's fair to say that it was his artistic peak. That implies that he didn't really grow as an artist after that, and I don't think that's true. I think They Don't Care About Us, Scream, Stranger in Moscow, Blood on the Dancefloor etc, are all extremely creative and unique pieces. He experimented with modern sounds with Invincible, and I think he did a fab job. I couldn't wait to see what else he had up his sleeve, and I bet it would have been absolutely incredible. I don't think he peaked, I think he had SO much more to offer. It was only ridiculous f*cking obstacles that stood in his way. He once said that part of the reason he didn't record more music and make more albums was because of the media and it's negative overshadowing of everything he put out. I think that's a downright shame. Whoever thought Michael EVER peaked, are seriously undermining the genius pouring out of that man, in my opinion.
 
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Dangerous has always been my favourite work by Mike :yes: IMO, everything flows so smoothly from one track to the next. All of Michael's best vocal styles are on display.

Thriller, to me seems like an incomplete album...Some fantastic tracks but incomplete lol.
 
DuranDuran said:
Critics don't buy records, and they didn't like Paul McCartney (or light rock) anyway. If "Beat It" was released 1st, then R&B radio would have complained. "The Girl Is Mine" could be played on R&B, pop, and light rock (adult contemporary) stations. Also having a popular white artist (McCartney) helped get it on pop stations rather than doing a duet with Teddy Pendergrass, who was a popular R&B singer then. Besides, it doesn't matter that "Beat It" isn't R&B, Michael was still black, so was not the type of act that was played on Top 40 radio. After disco faded away, black acts were rarely played. Even Stevie Wonder had a hard time. After Mike's success with the "Thriller" album, some black artists were played, but they usually had a watered down pop/R&B hybrid like Billy Ocean or Lionel Richie. Or "blue eyed soul" like Hall & Oates, Wham!, Taylor Dayne, & Culture Club. In the US, hair metal songs like "Beat It" hadn't fully crossed over from rock radio to mainstream pop top 40 yet. So "Beat It" wouldn't have made a good choice for a 1st single anyway. Van Halen was still being played on AOR stations mainly. They crossed over with the album "1984". Hair rock became popular when MTV did and the Christopher Cross, Carole King, James Taylor, & Kenny Rogers type acts died out. Remember video killed the radio star, lol.
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thanks for the incredible insight :D I appreciate it! it really was an obstacle course trying to navigate and intergrate the genres. So revolutionary of him. I'm so used to everything just being played, that I can forget just how hard it must have been to infiltrate and get to become accomplished in all genres and be taken SERIOUSLY in more than one niche. You spelled everything out great and I wonder how much of other people's talents were stifled because they couldn't crossover. Sad how the "business as usual" side of things will hinder soooooo much
 
I really like Dangerous, but man... I cannot part with Bad. Dangerous has a few repetitive sounds. Plus side is that I never skip a song. But.... every song on Bad is completely different. The only song I skip is Liberian Girl. I've read all over it's some people's favorite song, but I just can't get into it.
Anyways, I think Bad was his artistic peak over Dangerous.
 
I dunno, maybe im just lookin at it differently to you Captainreaction, but i JUSt can't get the adolescent vibe off from the Bad era for Michael.
It's interesting to see it like this.
Thriller was like boyhood, youthful exuberance, Bad was like growing up into a teenager, rebelling etc, and DANGEROUS! was like the peak! Adulthood! And same kind of goes for HIStory as well. That's my parallel with the era's, and that's why i can't see Bad as being at his best, it was a step towards it which was Dangerous imo.
 
Dangerous almost feels like two separate albums: A Michael Jackson album, and a 'Teddy Riley w/ Michael Jackson' album. Due to Teddy's heavy production, a number of songs sound way too similar (the first six tracks for the most part), and w/ all of that top-heavy producing, Michael's lyrics and voice often get drowned out. Basically I wouldn't call the album Michael's creative peak because it relies so heavily on Teddy Riley's sound, which I think is kind of dated anyway, and if the sound relies that heavily on the producer, then how could it be the creative best from the artist. If you cut about half the songs from the album, then maybe. My preferred Dangerous:

* Who Is It
* Black or White
* Heal the World
* Give in to Me
* Will You Be There
* Keep the Faith
* Gone to Soon
* Dangerous

As for the initial summation of the album in the initial post, nicely said, it does have a wide range of sounds and emotions covered. And theme-wise, true, one could argue its more adult than any work that came before it. But like someone else said (I think Duran Duran?), I actually prefer the Jacksons' Triumph and Destiny over Dangerous. I think Can You Feel It and Shake Your Body are way better than the 'adult themed' Jam, Why You Wanna Trip on Me, or In the Closet.
 
JoeyMJFan said:
Dangerous almost feels like two separate albums: A Michael Jackson album, and a 'Teddy Riley w/ Michael Jackson' album. Due to Teddy's heavy production, a number of songs sound way too similar (the first six tracks for the most part), and w/ all of that top-heavy producing, Michael's lyrics and voice often get drowned out. Basically I wouldn't call the album Michael's creative peak because it relies so heavily on Teddy Riley's sound, which I think is kind of dated anyway, and if the sound relies that heavily on the producer, then how could it be the creative best from the artist. If you cut about half the songs from the album, then maybe. My preferred Dangerous:

* Who Is It
* Black or White
* Heal the World
* Give in to Me
* Will You Be There
* Keep the Faith
* Gone to Soon
* Dangerous

As for the initial summation of the album in the initial post, nicely said, it does have a wide range of sounds and emotions covered. And theme-wise, true, one could argue its more adult than any work that came before it. But like someone else said (I think Duran Duran?), I actually prefer the Jacksons' Triumph and Destiny over Dangerous. I think Can You Feel It and Shake Your Body are way better than the 'adult themed' Jam, Why You Wanna Trip on Me, or In the Closet.
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I have a friend who was a big Teddy Riley/Guy & NJS fan. He's the opposite, he likes the Teddy songs and thinks the rest of the album is bland, lol.
 
D.S said:
I dunno, maybe im just lookin at it differently to you Captainreaction, but i JUSt can't get the adolescent vibe off from the Bad era for Michael.
It's interesting to see it like this.
Thriller was like boyhood, youthful exuberance, Bad was like growing up into a teenager, rebelling etc, and DANGEROUS! was like the peak! Adulthood! And same kind of goes for HIStory as well. That's my parallel with the era's, and that's why i can't see Bad as being at his best, it was a step towards it which was Dangerous imo.
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Yeah, I see where you are coming from. I don't see the adolescence you see though. I see the peak of someone in general as a teen/mid 20's so our thoughts are skewed. Man In The Mirror and TWYMMF just give it away, he isn't a kid anymore. It's not gumdrop pop anymore. Hell, for the most part, Thriller isn't either much, Human Nature gives that away too. I think he lost any adolescent features after Off The Wall.

If you read this guys post about the repetitiveness of the songs, it makes more sense why I see it the way I do as well. Michael had less of a creative action, at least that's what it seems like. I wasn't even aware he didn't compose most of the beats on Dangerous until that post!

JoeyMJFan said:
Dangerous almost feels like two separate albums: A Michael Jackson album, and a 'Teddy Riley w/ Michael Jackson' album. Due to Teddy's heavy production, a number of songs sound way too similar (the first six tracks for the most part), and w/ all of that top-heavy producing, Michael's lyrics and voice often get drowned out. Basically I wouldn't call the album Michael's creative peak because it relies so heavily on Teddy Riley's sound, which I think is kind of dated anyway, and if the sound relies that heavily on the producer, then how could it be the creative best from the artist. If you cut about half the songs from the album, then maybe. My preferred Dangerous:

* Who Is It
* Black or White
* Heal the World
* Give in to Me
* Will You Be There
* Keep the Faith
* Gone to Soon
* Dangerous
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Said it exactly. Though I really like Who Is It and Jam quite a bit. Maybe a few of those will give it just the "umph" it needs.
 
Dangerous is MJ at his best and my favourite album. It flows amazingly well and the diversity of styles shows Michael could adapt and create great great tunes. I didnt know of Teddy Riley before this album, and I rate MJs collaborations with him as simply brilliant. They gel so well and magic happens when they come together. The Dangerous era itself is one that I hold very dear, the accompanying videos, the tour. It was all genius.
 
Can I just say that DuranDuran knows his history.
Teach them that all we have now & take for granted wasn't always this way.

It was no joke to say that Michael broke down barriers. RACIAL barriers, my friend.
And these barriers are being re-erected all the time even now.
John Lucas
 
I became a fan in 1994. My first album of course was Dangerous because it was the easiest to find at the store.
My favorite song by Michael is Black Or White because of the message.
My favorite album, no clue.
I have about 4 Jackson 5 albums, 4 Jackson albums and all of Michael's solo albums.
I love each one for different reasons.
When I wanna dance when I turn on OTW or Destiny.
When I wanna feel love when I turn on Thriller or Triumph.
I put Bad or Dangerous or Invincible on when I wanna just listen to all emotions.
I put on HIStory when I'm mad or upset.
 
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i liked this thread a lot because i always remembered what mike said about it himself that i'll paste here now. but i also want to thank duranduran for his insight. i think because michael became so successful people always just assume it was always that way. :)

EBONY/JET: What was the concept for the Dangerous album?

JACKSON: I wanted to do an album that was like Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite. So that in a thousand years from now, people would still be listening to it. Something that would live forever. I would like to see children and teenagers and parents and all races all over the world, hundreds and hundreds of years from now, still pulling out songs from that album and dissecting it. I want it to live.
 
Originally Posted by tbron
easy bad and otw are better track to track and it's not close. as far as perfection goes any chance it had at that went out the window with the girl is mine. it's a great album that's full of hits but it's not his best work imo. i don't care what the media says take away beat it and billie jean and most of the songs from bad and otw are better than the rest of thriller.
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Totally agree! Beat it and Billie Jean made the album! Thriller was the time when MJ had breakthrough with the dance moves and short films but it's not his best album. Dangerous is so much better and too underrated!

Originally Posted by roiklow
Dangerous/History/BOTDF are the purest michael art ever. It is indeed michel's artistic peak in my opinion.
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Yupe!!!
 
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