Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[myosotis]

That’s an interesting development.

I don't understand the purpose.
1. The Estate is already filming depositions which comprise the complainants (and some witnesses) speaking for themselves (As seen in 'Lies of Leaving Neverland, where Robson was shown making a fool of himself, and Joy was shown stating for the third time that she didn't leave Wade behind when the family went to the Grand Canyon). Note: Safechuck's case was thrown out early so he hadn't done a deposition up to that point.

2. Unless there is a trial, I understand that only attorneys will be speaking in court. So any film R gets at the moment is of attys' discussing case admin, since the meat of the cases and responses is in the written submissions (which are shared by fans on line).
Reed isn't allowed to film the judge, but he may get audio. That's going to be a matter of public record anyway.

3. If the Estate applies to film now, tactically it would look as if they think the cases will go to trial - I'm sure they don't.
The Estate knows that they are filming the depos. anyway, and there is nothing to be gained from filming attys. at hearings.

Lies of Leaving Neverland reminder:

[video=youtube;Hz-vEaq8pu8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz-vEaq8pu8[/video]

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Kew Media Group is crashing and burning and the company was being sold.

Lovely. And is it true that Reed didn't get any profits of LN because of this? I read that somewhere and man, talking about some good news if that's true.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I don't understand the purpose.
1. The Estate is already filming depositions which comprise the complainants (and some witnesses) speaking for themselves (As seen in 'Lies of Leaving Neverland, where Robson was shown making a fool of himself, and Joy was shown stating for the third time that she didn't leave Wade behind when the family went to the Grand Canyon). Note: Safechuck's case was thrown out early so he hadn't done a deposition up to that point.

2. Unless there is a trial, I understand that only attorneys will be speaking in court. So any film R gets at the moment is of attys' discussing case admin, since the meat of the cases and responses is in the written submissions (which are shared by fans on line).
Reed isn't allowed to film the judge, but he may get audio. That's going to be a matter of public record anyway.

3. If the Estate applies to film now, tactically it would look as if they think the cases will go to trial - I'm sure they don't.
The Estate knows that they are filming the depos. anyway, and there is nothing to be gained from filming attys. at hearings.

I agree with you. The tweet is not about having the Estate film the hearings, though, but a videographer paid by a fan. The purpose of which would be to have more material to debunk whatever manipulatively edited film Reed may come up with. That’s my understanding of this initiative, and I thought it was an interesting development.

I actually think it’s good that the Estate itself doesn’t stoop to Reed’s level. Let him look like the clown that he is.

 

[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Given the deceitful way in which Leaving Neverland was constructed, it seems imperative that a second crew is sent in to document the proceedings, so there is an independent record of what happened.</p>&mdash; Charles Thomson (@CEThomson) <a href="https://twitter.com/CEThomson/status/1285684673939738624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is the video of Dan Reed confirming a sequel to LN today.<br><br>&quot;I still talk to them a lot. And we're actually doing another film with them, ha! I guess the long tail of the sort of duty of care [after LN] was 3 months...and thereafter I checked in with them quite a bit.&quot; <a href="https://t.co/XhwAo9raT3">pic.twitter.com/XhwAo9raT3</a></p>&mdash; TSCM (@MJJRepository) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJRepository/status/1285691445135978498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Agree screenorigami

 

[myosotis]

I agree with you. The tweet is not about having the Estate film the hearings, though, but a videographer paid by a fan. The purpose of which would be to have more material to debunk whatever manipulatively edited film Reed may come up with. That&#8217;s my understanding of this initiative, and I thought it was an interesting development.

I actually think it&#8217;s good that the Estate itself doesn&#8217;t stoop to Reed&#8217;s level. Let him look like the clown that he is.

Yep, I understood the 'paid by a fan bit' - but the idea mainly seemed to arise because the Estate are not filming what R is filming. A fan-paid videographer would still only be filming attorneys talking about the case progression though. Having another videographer also filming Finaldi et al seems to be giving them altogether too much power. The court transcripts will record what both sides (and the judge) say, so there's not much room for R to manipulate anything.

I agree that stooping to their level is an entirely bad idea. They already have far too much attention

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Yep, I understood the 'paid by a fan bit' - but the idea mainly seemed to arise because the Estate are not filming what R is filming. A fan-paid videographer would still only be filming attorneys talking about the case progression though. Having another videographer also filming Finaldi et al seems to be giving them altogether too much power. The court transcripts will record what both sides (and the judge) say, so there's not much room for R to manipulate anything.

I agree that stooping to their level is an entirely bad idea. They already have far too much attention

I think, the fans behind this initiative assume that Reed will use whatever audio material he can grab to combine it with some Ken Burns style panning and zooming over the handful of photos W&J have with MJ. Add some snippets from LN1 along with dramatic music and the people who see it won&#8217;t read the court transcripts to look for the whole story.

And I agree with those fans that this is most likely the plan. Thus, having their own audio recording may prove useful for impactful counter documentaries.

I mean, the availability of the 2005 court transcripts hasn&#8217;t stopped anyone from making up the wildest stories, knowing that the general public won&#8217;t fact check.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

I think, the fans behind this initiative assume that Reed will use whatever audio material he can grab to combine it with some Ken Burns style panning and zooming over the handful of photos W&J have with MJ. Add some snippets from LN1 along with dramatic music and the people who see it won’t read the court transcripts to look for the whole story.

And I agree with those fans that this is most likely the plan. Thus, having their own audio recording may prove useful for impactful counter documentaries.

I mean, the availability of the 2005 court transcripts hasn’t stopped anyone from making up the wildest stories, knowing that the general public won’t fact check.

I agree 100%. You can bet that lowlife scum will manipulate his recordings to help the two extortionists,Robson and Safekluck. I say we need backup recordings to counter the BS that Greed is conspiring. He and the rest of the conspirators are DESPERATE and will do anything.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I agree 100%. You can bet that lowlife scum will manipulate his recordings to help the two extortionists,Robson and Safekluck. I say we need backup recordings to counter the BS that Greed is conspiring. He and the rest of the conspirators are DESPERATE and will do anything.

Yep, I think he&#8217;s setting himself up for the 99.99% chance that the cases don&#8217;t go on trial, and if they do, they lose. He&#8217;s probably going to tell the story of the mighty Estate and the poor victims. That&#8217;s why he&#8217;s recording the attorneys. Mark my words.

 

[myosotis]

I think, the fans behind this initiative assume that Reed will use whatever audio material he can grab to combine it with some Ken Burns style panning and zooming over the handful of photos W&J have with MJ. Add some snippets from LN1 along with dramatic music and the people who see it won&#8217;t read the court transcripts to look for the whole story.

And I agree with those fans that this is most likely the plan. Thus, having their own audio recording may prove useful for impactful counter documentaries.

I mean, the availability of the 2005 court transcripts hasn&#8217;t stopped anyone from making up the wildest stories, knowing that the general public won&#8217;t fact check.

To be fair, the availability of videos like 'Lies of LN', 'Neverland Firsthand' etc don't seem to have made any difference to the media continuing with ridiculous stories or to the general public view either. Reed still lied all over his recent Bafta interview, when he said that to date ''no-one has found anything to undermine W and J's claims.'' Which is nonsense and totally untrue.

Most of the general public still get their info. from online clickbait news sites. I haven't seen a single MSM site report on or review 'Square One'. Until Taj can get his doc. on to a mainstream platform, I don't think a lot will change. And maybe it will take a new generation who hasn't been bombarded with all the negative stuff to really bring back the perception of MJ 'as he was' pre-1993.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

My advice is to block dan, wade, and james. why are fans stalking them anyway?

 

[myosotis]

I see that the President of 'Hearst magazines' has just resigned. Hearst is one of the world's largest publishers which includes lots of popular magazines- among which is 'The Oprah Magazine'.

Hearst Magazines President Troy Young Resigns Following Accusations of Lewd, Sexist Remarks

Hearst Magazines President Troy Young has resigned from the company amid accusations that he made lewd and sexist remarks to his employees.

In a memo sent to staff on Thursday, which was published online, Hearst President and CEO Steven Swartz said Young&#8217;s resignation was &#8220;effective immediately.&#8221;

&#8220;Troy Young and I have agreed that it is in the best interest of all of us that he resign his position as president of Hearst Magazines, effective immediately,&#8221; Swartz wrote.

Young&#8217;s resignation comes a day after the New York Times reported that Young created a &#8220;toxic&#8221; work environment and made lewd and sexist remarks to staff. Such accusations include that Young emailed pornography to a &#8220;high-level editor,&#8221;........

In a statement sent to the Times in response to the accusations, Young said, &#8220;Specific allegations raised by my detractors are either untrue, greatly exaggerated or taken out of context. The pace of evolving our business and the strength of my commitment is ambitious, and I sincerely regret the toll it has taken on some in our organization.&#8221; He also added that &#8220;candid conversations about sex defined the Cosmo brand for decades, and those who worked there discussed it openly.&#8221;

Young first joined Hearst in 2013 before being appointed the president of Hearst Magazines in 2018. In his position, he oversaw publications like Cosmopolitan, Harper&#8217;s Bazaar, Esquire and Marie Claire......

https://www.thewrap.com/hearst-magazines-president-troy-young-resigns/

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A little insight into how closely they worked together: this article is about an internal Podcast for Hearst Magazines staff

Internal Hearst Podcast Brings the Inside Dish
Employees can now listen to Troy Young, Kate Lewis and Gayle King chat about mishaps in marriage counseling and a cauliflower wrap.

If you&#8217;ve ever wanted to hear more about the goings on at Hearst Magazines and its cafeteria, there&#8217;s a podcast for that.

Meant for an internal audience but hosted on SoundCloud, the publisher in recent weeks has launched &#8220;Making Media,&#8221; WWD has learned, hosted by none other than Troy Young, the group&#8217;s president, and Kate Lewis, its chief content officer, both appointed to their respective roles about six months ago. The podcast is only the second to come out of Hearst Tower as Popular Mechanics is the lone magazine to have one of its own. But that seems poised for a change if the publisher&#8217;s two highest-ranking executives are making the effort......

Any employees who dropped in for a listen to the most recent episode will have gotten quite the mix of information. Gayle King, a host of &#8220;CBS This Morning&#8221; and editor at large of Hearst&#8217;s O The Oprah Magazine, talked of having a difficult time in couples&#8217; counseling because a therapist refused to divide issues between &#8220;right&#8221; and &#8220;wrong.&#8221; (She&#8217;s long since divorced). She also mentioned how &#8220;ridiculous&#8221; she thought some recent controversy around the Christmas song &#8220;Baby, It&#8217;s Cold Outside&#8221; was and how little knowledge of magazines she and her famously best friend Oprah Winfrey had when they met initially with Hearst almost 20 years ago.....


King and Young also talked briefly about how hesitant she was to launch a digital product of O magazine (which only happened this winter), but King admitted she&#8217;s glad it happened, noting in a self-congratulatory tone that the site is already bringing in around 1.2 million visitors (Young and Lewis also sounded pretty pleased with themselves at the figure)....

https://wwd.com/business-news/media/hearst-magazine-internal-podcast-gayle-king-1202944820/

 

[myosotis]

Interesting. At the end of 2018 they (said they were) doing so well.

''Under Editor-in-Chief Lucy Kaylin, O, The Oprah Magazine continues to fire on all cylinders. Circulation is up to nearly 2.4 million, and the Hearst title remains one of the top 10 monthlies at the newsstand''.
I think the new online version had about half this circulation. Not clear what proportion would be new vs existing subscribers.

The December 2020 issue will be the publication&#8217;s last. (O has been in production since 2000.)

O: The Oprah Magazine to Cease Regular Print Publication

The joint venture between Oprah Winfrey&#8217;s Harpo Inc. and Hearst Magazines marked its 20 year anniversary in April and is known for covers featuring the media mogul and its annual Oprah's Favorite Things gift guide.

https://www.businessoffashion.com/articles/professional/oprah-o-magazine-hearst

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A bit of extra info from RF today:

I told you on Saturday night that Hearst was shutting down the print version of Oprah&#8217;s O Magazine after 20 years. There&#8217;s no word on why exactly except that print magazines are coming to an end, Hearst doesn&#8217;t care, and is staying in business with Oprah at least tangentially so it doesn&#8217;t look like a total disaster. The website will carry on without the bound magazine.

A spokesman for Hearst sent this to me tonight after no response all day. The theme is they&#8217;re all going to lean into things I guess until they fall over. The corporate line is sad. Wait til we hear about all the layoffs.

&#8220;To clarify since I think some reports have been a bit misleading, the brand is not going away, it is reinventing how it delivers Oprah&#8217;s unique perspective on issues including health and well-being, climate change and social justice while continuing to lean into moments that are central to the brand&#8217;s DNA. This is a natural next step for the brand, which has grown to an online audience of 8 million, extending its voice and vision with video and social content. We will continue to invest in this platform as the brand grows and evolves into one that is more digitally-centric.&#8221;

https://www.showbiz411.com/2020/07/...al-so-it-can-lean-in-on-health-and-well-being

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Just for fun, I noticed that the mag. has a recent article titled 'What is a narcissist'. The writer doesn't mention if they ever met Wade.

Excerpts:

They love bathing in themselves&#8212;their accolades, dramas, ideas, and even victimhood...... "You might hear the language of, 'Nobody does it like I can...' or, in cases where the narcissist is wallowing in their troubles, it could be, 'Nobody understands what I'm dealing with...' or they may remind you over and over of how strong they are''....

"Narcissists see other people as pawns to get to where they want to go. They may never admit it, but they are the most important person in the room and everyone else is just an object to manipulate or a place to dump their problems.''

When they want something, they expect automatic concession&#8212;whatever the day, the hour, or the circumstances.

If you assert yourself, prepare to encounter their wrath. The type to launch smear campaigns or call upon humiliation tactics...

Admiration, praise and validation&#8212;those make up a concoction that is their literal lifeblood. "The minute you compliment them, it intoxicates them so much that they will almost pry for more validation.''

http://www.oprah.com/inspiration/what-is-a-narcissist_1

 

[Elton-Cetera]

Did Wade Robson ever get a green card and U.S. citizenship?

 

[myosotis]

Did Wade Robson ever get a green card and U.S. citizenship?

I presume he must have, or he would not have been able to work in the USA for so many years?

 

[Elton-Cetera]

I presume he must have, or he would not have been able to work in the USA for so many years?

Maybe a P-Visa? P for performer? Is his wife a U.S. citizen? Maybe he married for green card?

 

[myosotis]

Maybe a P-Visa? P for performer? Is his wife a U.S. citizen? Maybe he married for green card?

Wade (and his mother) worked in the USA from their arrival with Chantal. They were self-supporting, apart from the 3 MJ gigs.

I understand a 'P' visa only covers performance at a specific event. Wade was working in TV from shortly after arrival, and then as a dance teacher from about 11 or 13.

This is Joy talking about her own work (Joy was selling makeup, but her pay cheques had to be sent via MJJ Prodns.):

 

[myosotis]

'The Guardian' are hedging their bets on the outcome of the BAFTA 'Factual Series' TV award tonight.

Their analysis is the usual deeply deficient garbage. LOL at writer M Lawson: :

Bafta 2020 predictions: who will win TV's top gongs?

Factual series
Crime and Punishment Emily Lawson, Bruce Fletcher, Jemma Chisnall, Mark Raphael; 72 Films/Channel 4

Don&#8217;t F**k With Cats: Hunting An Internet Killer Mark Lewis, Felicity Morris, Michael Harte, Dimitri Doganis; Raw TV/Netflix

Leaving Neverland Production team: Amos Pictures/Channel 4

Our Dementia Choir with Vicky McClure Production team: Curve Media/BBC One

This category resembles the Premier League with the two best clubs banned from competing, after failure even to shortlist two of the strongest factual projects of last year: Norma Percy&#8217;s Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil (BBC Two) and Claire Lewis and Michael Apted&#8217;s 63 Up (ITV). In their absence, the section may be influenced by the perceived increasing tendency for some Bafta voters to put message ahead of significance to the medium. If that happens, the heart-warming Our Dementia Choir can clear space on the mantlepiece; if not, Dan Reed&#8217;s chilling Michael Jackson exposé, Leaving Neverland, should be rewarded for its epic investigative strength.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...tion-street-who-will-win-this-years-tv-baftas

 

[elusive moonwalker]

?????????

Has he got a twitter?

 

[myosotis]

Sadly - Leaving Neverland won the Factual series Bafta

Ridiculous!!!

Bafta also disabled comments on the announcement tweet.

 

[myosotis]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Has he got a twitter😈

No, I couldn't fine one - Mark Lawson's article was just listed under the generic 'Guardian' Twitter page.

 

[Thriller_MJ]

Sadly - Leaving Neverland won the Factual series Bafta

Ridiculous!!!

Bafta also disabled comments on the announcement tweet.

I've noticed a lot more verified twitter accounts are disabling comments now too. Can't say I'm surprised it won, like the Emmy it was bought.

 

[myosotis]

I've noticed a lot more verified twitter accounts are disabling comments now too. Can't say I'm surprised it won, like the Emmy it was bought.

Yep. Funny thing is, they don't care 'what' they've bought

 

[Snek]

“epic investigative strength.” I’m sorry??! All he did was talk to the two supposed “victims” and their families. Pretty terrible investigation if you ask me. Shame on the BAFTAs. These liars will all be exposed.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

these liars are already expose. but of course they don't care.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

&#8220;epic investigative strength.&#8221; I&#8217;m sorry??! All he did was talk to the two supposed &#8220;victims&#8221; and their families. Pretty terrible investigation if you ask me. Shame on the BAFTAs. These liars will all be exposed.

So much this. I wasn&#8217;t an MJ fan when I watched it, but after just a couple of minutes I was close to just switching off. All the lies aside, it&#8217;s just shoddy work. I thought how terrible those actors were, before I remembered that it wasn&#8217;t a re-enacted documentary.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Merriam-Webster pushed a quick update to their online dictionary.

 

[Amaya]

Sigh... disgusting.

 

[terrell]

They only made it bad for themselves and this open the door for Square one to be more discussed and get bigger. Square One can NOT be denied even more now. They only open the door more for this LN trash to be exposed.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Theres no real publicity for it anyway with it not been a proper event this year. We all know its bought inorder to try and legitimise the lies. Makes no difference to the reality of it