Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Paris78;4256276 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Safechuck shows a picture of the MAIN station, yet Diane tries to make out that very station which we know wasn’t built, isn’t the one he was talking about, rather one of the ‘shed style stops’ - why wasn’t that the picture he showed then?! &#128580; <a href="https://t.co/EgRhcttkbx">https://t.co/EgRhcttkbx</a></p>&mdash; Pez Jax (@Pezjax) <a href="https://twitter.com/Pezjax/status/1121320407452327938?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">25. April 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This post from Dian Dimand shows me again a very possible connection between Dian Dimand and Reed/LN!

We know that there was a connection between Reed/LN and Dimand through the australian Sunday Night Special because the man who did the interviews there with Jocobshagen, Dimand, Murray, the female staff member, Jermaine and LaToya was a friend from Reed.
For me it seamed also that the interviews with Jermaine and LaToya were recorded before the LN Sundance announcement and that have trapped them in telling them they would talk more about something else then the accusation cases.
They interestingly not talked about Jocobsagen, Dimand, the female staff member, with them directly when they were part of the same special.
So I think the Sunday Night Special was prepared to support LN.

When Dian Dimand has a connection to LN a connection to LN and Victor G is not far away, cause Dimand and Victor G. Have worked together in the past as you can lern it from this ' Mean Machine' video:

[video=youtube;4VfzYlVWZfg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VfzYlVWZfg[/video]

The NAMBLA pedophillia smell to which Victor G. Is, people from Sundance and Adrian Mc Manus are linked to is all over LN!
NAMBLA wanted to use Michael Jackson since the 80ies to normalizise and legalize pedophillia, did it trough Victor G. and seamed to try to make big global,step in this with LN!

Lets try to ask ourself again:
Who is the researcher Dan Reed hired according to Billbord article?
Is it Dimand?
Is it Victor G. ?
Is it the former FBI agent Jim who came forward during in 2003 saying he could see on the Bodylangrage from Gavin Avivso in LWMJ that MJ is molesting him, came also forward in support of Wade and James in 2013 and gave also interviews in the LN situation for examle to MJvictims/ Wade Robson supporters Facebook group.
Is it the owner from MJfacts / MJandboys who supported Wade and James since 2013 with his page and YouTube channel?
Is it someone from Dan Reeds "The peodiphile Hunter" filmproject?
Did Reed hired more researcher then one?

Were Jocobshagens accusations planed before the LN anouncement?
When they were planed.... were ALL faxes in LN real?
 
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As I said in the other thread, I believe we are on the road to losing this fight.
Lynn Nottage, Dan Reed, LN, HBO and now Netflix.. that's too big.
 
As I said in the other thread, I believe we are on the road to losing this fight.
Lynn Nottage, Dan Reed, LN, HBO and now Netflix.. that's too big.

Just stop. People have moved on. We are focus. In the eyes of most people, this is just folks picking on someone who is not here no more. Again, if I was not on this board, I would not know nothing about Lynn. HBO lost and people are tired of hearing about it so Netflix is out of luck. I believe now as many say on black station: someone is out to trash MJ. See these tv fools do not know things have a way of backfiring due to overkill.
 
It is sometimes hard to see that this thing isn't as big as some so called Journalists would have you believe. They like to insert their opinion as if it is public opinion and I believe this is a tactic that is being used.
 
Just stop. People have moved on. We are focus. In the eyes of most people, this is just folks picking on someone who is not here no more. Again, if I was not on this board, I would not know nothing about Lynn. HBO lost and people are tired of hearing about it so Netflix is out of luck. I believe now as many say on black station: someone is out to trash MJ. See these tv fools do not know things have a way of backfiring due to overkill.

Stop what !
fans can't fight alone.
The Estate and Michael's children are not interested at all in defending MJ in the media/ social media.
Unfortunately HBO and Dan Reed have a huge support .
 
Stop what !
fans can't fight alone.
The Estate and Michael's children are not interested at all in defending MJ in the media/ social media.
Unfortunately HBO and Dan Reed have a huge support .

yeah, but many people have their own brain. and as i can see most of them are using it.
 
Just stop. People have moved on. We are focus. In the eyes of most people, this is just folks picking on someone who is not here no more. Again, if I was not on this board, I would not know nothing about Lynn. HBO lost and people are tired of hearing about it so Netflix is out of luck. I believe now as many say on black station: someone is out to trash MJ. See these tv fools do not know things have a way of backfiring due to overkill.

Agreed!!!!

Regular folks have moved on. There is NEW news every ding dong day.

In my opinion, the mockumentary has fizzled out and their "Mute MJ" campaign failed miserable. Of course, we MJ fans will jump on every little thing that comes out regarding him, but truth be told, we wouldn't know half of this stuff if we didn't visit this site daily.

I also believe that those who are on the "Mute MJ" train, have ALWAYS been on the "Mute MJ" train and they can go have several seats as far as I'm concerned. MJ's music is still being played, his ONE show in Vegas has stood up to the test of time, etc. What happens further down the line: We Shall See!!!!

OH and because of Oprah's involvement: Most of the Black/Urban Community have turned their backs on her. Bet she didn't see THAT coming.
 
Stop what !
fans can't fight alone.
The Estate and Michael's children are not interested at all in defending MJ in the media/ social media.
Unfortunately HBO and Dan Reed have a huge support .
Their support is not as big as you think. It is because some media outlets talk. This trash was not even a water cooler talk. Harvery Weinstein hearings start today, I want to see if that is going to make big rounds.
 
That's not true.
unfortunately, the majority believes LN story.
How do you know what THE MAJORITY believes? LOL. Have you, personally, spoken to THE MAJORITY?

If not, there is NO WAY you can make such a huge statement!!
 
Stop what !
fans can't fight alone.
The Estate and Michael's children are not interested at all in defending MJ in the media/ social media.
Unfortunately HBO and Dan Reed have a huge support .

Where is that huge support you're talking about? The docu flopped worldwide. Where is the celebrity support for Robson and Safechuck? Hell, even Robson's dance community is not supporting him. MJ was just trending the other day with people giving him love against Beyonce (who is one of the most beloved stars right now), his music is still played and is selling well, the Cirque show still sells out, the new musical is going ahead.

Again, what is this huge support for Reed you talk about?
 
How do you know what THE MAJORITY believes? LOL. Have you, personally, spoken to THE MAJORITY?

If not, there is NO WAY you can make such a huge statement!!

No one around me believes it. SOme do not even want to see it because MJ is gone and they know it is trash and will be lies to get ratings and MJ already had a trial.
 
Where is that huge support you're talking about? The docu flopped worldwide. Where is the celebrity support for Robson and Safechuck? Hell, even Robson's dance community is not supporting him. MJ was just trending the other day with people giving him love against Beyonce (who is one of the most beloved stars right now), his music is still played and is selling well, the Cirque show still sells out, the new musical is going ahead.

Again, what is this huge support for Reed you talk about?

And on radio shows and their fackbooks,twitters, and even when some who did calls it, majority of the people supported MJ after LN air. One or two folks were on the fence and I wont be surprised their views changed after the train station story and court appeal.
 
I am cancelling my Netflix subscription. I live in Dubai. The distributor could not get it on any major TV station here. It was shown for three days in a one screen cinema earlier this month. I see they got a deal with Netflix to show it here. **** them all. It is a conspiracy definitely.
 
I hate the estate with passion. I have no doubt Branca and Weizman have made side deals with Warner through their other businesses because this wilful incompetancy is not for free.
 
If Netflix takes on this documentary worldwide we are screwed guys. It will literally get 50+ million views easily, maybe even more. And when something goes on Netflix it stays on for a year minimum. So people will be constantly reminded..... so sad :( This was a nightmare. First Sundance then HBO then Oprah, now Netflix.
 
MJPoetryFan;4256299 said:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/ente...ael-jackson-musical-jones-0428-story,amp.html


Debating the new Michael Jackson musical: Why are respected artists participating?
Chris JonesContact Reporter
Chicago Tribune

Incredibly, the dangerously titled Michael Jackson musical, “Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough,” is moving forward in New York. Its creators are using what I’ll call the complexity defense. It’s fascinating and has implications far beyond Jackson and his legacy.

First, let’s review. The Tribune first reported Jan. 23 that the Broadway-bound musical, a jukebox biography focused around Jackson’s “Dangerous” world tour, would try out in Chicago this fall. That engagement subsequently was cancelled, seemingly in the immediately wake of the HBO documentary “Leaving Neverland,” wherein two adult males, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, claimed, in withering detail, that the so-called King of Pop had abused them at his Neverland ranch when both were underage boys. However, the producers of the show, which include the Jackson estate, claimed that the cancellation was a result of a workshop session being delayed by a now-resolved dispute involving Actors Equity. Whatever the truth, the timing was certainly striking.

This week, though, news came that the show was, as promised, continuing to wend toward Broadway in 2020, albeit without an out-of-town engagement.

You can see why the Jackson Estate, which has attacked the allegations in the documentary as baseless, financially motivated slander, wants the project to continue. Many recent cases involving revelations or allegations of past abusive or inappropriate behavior have resulted in fevered debate over how to handle the disgraced individual’s previous works of art. Is it still OK to watch early Miramax films in the wake of Harvey Weinstein? What about the films of Kevin Spacey? Those are merely the two most obvious examples of countless actors, directors, writers and painters under new scrutiny.

But those are works in the past. In this case, the Jackson musical is yet unfinished. It is in the future. It is one thing to argue that the brilliant artistry of, say, Jackson’s album “Off the Wall” is not invalidated by the artist’s personal behavior, but another to actually create a whole new work around his brand. Estates, though, are trusted with both curating and maximizing creative projects building on the work of deceased artists, further defining their legacy. If “Don’t Stop” were to be cancelled, it would put a chill on any and all future Jackson projects. So wherever you stand on this issue, their persistence is logical.

And it explains why, say, Louis C.K. keeps wanting to do stand-up. There are two debates there, too. There is one set of arguments surrounding the dispensation of Louis C.K. in the past, and another surrounding what he should or should not do be allowed to do in the future. And for those who argue for so-called “cancellation,” it is the future work that is the more egregious.

Look at the recent scandals surrounding racially insensitive statues or murals in schools, depicting very different Americas from the past. Debate ensues about whether they should be removed. Imagine, though, that someone had suggested painting a new one. In the old way.

So what about Lynn Nottage and Christopher Wheeldon, the two creative artists charged with the Jackson project? In recent days, both have given interviews in which they try to thread a very fine needle. In the case of Nottage, the book-writer, she first told Baz Bamigboye of the Daily Mail that she “believed” Robson and Safechuck, following a now-common edict that reflects the argument that survivors of abuse historically have had great difficulty in being heard, and, therefore, now deserve to be believed. “I think they were telling the truth,” she said.

Which begs the question: Why then are you participating in a musical produced by an estate that is calling the two men liars?

The statement also infuriated Jackson fans, who called for Nottage to be fired. And, presumably, it upset the estate, given their public statements on the matter. Then, in a judicious subsequent interview with the New York Times, Nottage walked that back: “What I was saying, and what I was getting at,” she told Michael Paulson, “is that the men came across as very believable. But here’s the caveat: Were they ultimately telling the truth? I cannot 100 percent say so, because I’m not judge and jury, and it’s not my place to do that.”

That is a fair point: the documentary was not a court of law and its content, most fair-minded people would say, did not rise to the level of legal proof. And the accused had no chance to defend himself. But then again, very few of the recent cases discussed above have been fully resolved in a court of law. Weinstein is about to stand trial. But his detractors have not waited for a verdict to condemn. It is hard to imagine someone now making a musical about him, or his auteurship, or anyone buying a ticket.

In the Times interview, both Nottage and Wheeldon essentially said, look, trust us, we’re artists, we understand complexity, none of us are wholly good or wholly bad and we’re going to create an art work that reflects both those sides of Michael Jackson, a show that could be enjoyed by those who believed the young men’s accounts and those who took Jackson’s side. In other words, a complicated, truthful show that will reveal a fuller vision of Jackson.

To wit.

Wheeldon: “This is obviously challenging — it makes this not without its complications, for sure — but part of what we do as artists is we respond to complexity.”

Nottage: “I see the artwork that we’re making as a way to more deeply understand Michael Jackson and process feelings, and ultimately that’s what theater can do.”

I’ve long argued to young writers that critics should always be on the side of complexity and resist binary thinking, life being otherwise and human flaws and hidden agendas existing at every turn. Still, I’ve been wrestling mightily with whether I think these are fair arguments — as distinct from rationalizations from otherwise progressive artists now in a difficult set of circumstances — and whether it is even remotely possible for a musical featuring Michael Jackson songs to be, in Wheeldon’s words, “a show that’s balanced.“

There are several thorny issues. One is that the permission, the dispensing of grand rights, and much of the content of the artists’ paychecks, is coming from an estate that does not share this view, at least in public. Is it really going to allow any suggestion otherwise in the final product? There is no evidence that it will.

The second is that for “Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough” to be a hit, it will have to rely on Jackson fans, and it will have to give them a good time. Many people now feel that it is inappropriate, given these allegations, to dance or sing along with music inherently tainted by biography. That is a very reasonable position.

Certainly, no jukebox show authorized by a living artist or an estate has ever dealt with anything quite like this. In Broadway biographies, peccadilloes and mistakes sometimes get a brief airing (as in “Summer, the Donna Summer Musical,” involving the subject’s controversial comments about gays), but they are quickly resolved. In an authorized voice. And then back to the dance party.

If the Jackson estate actually allows Nottage and Wheeldon to even hint at anything in “Leaving Neverland” in “Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough,” that would make this the most remarkable jukebox musical in the history of Broadway.

On the other hand, what choice does the estate have?

From its point of view, cancellation would be far worse, putting a chill on the Jackson brand that might last for decades or forever. If they’re smart, they’ll let these two do what they feel they should. And as for Nottage and Wheeldon, they’re now under a moral obligation to at least partly sink their teeth into the hand that feeds them.

Chris Jones is a Tribune critic.

I sent an email to this guy, surprisingly he emailed me back!
 
I hate the estate with passion. I have no doubt Branca and Weizman have made side deals with Warner through their other businesses because this wilful incompetancy is not for free.

I believe there is someone behind all of this. Too many lies to allow this to be seen on other places at this point. I do not see them showing other docs in this manner. I hope Nexflix do not be stupid.
 
I hate the estate with passion. I have no doubt Branca and Weizman have made side deals with Warner through their other businesses because this wilful incompetancy is not for free.

This is why I hold Jordan Chandler. His (dad as well )LIE created this nonsense and now he sits back and know it is a lie and do nothing.
 
How common is that Netflix takes on something HBO produced? Aren't they supposed to be competitors?
 
How common is that Netflix takes on something HBO produced? Aren't they supposed to be competitors?

Yes, that what I thought. Again, I think this is something bigger behind the scene when it comes to trashing Michael. It makes no sense. Even the docs about other celebs are not on Netflix so why would Netflix want to show LN if it is true?
 
it's obvious that HBO doesn't care about the Estate and her lawsuit.
 
it's obvious that HBO doesn't care about the Estate and her lawsuit.
Of course they care!

If they didn't care, they wouldn't need to request multiple extensions. They would just go to the dang arbitration, hold their heads up high, fight the good fight and move on.

I remember when the Estate first filed their lawsuit against HBO. HBO called their case "frivolous." Well if it's so frivolous, why are they continuing to stall?

Do they know something we don't know? I wonder!!
 
If Netflix takes on this documentary worldwide we are screwed guys. It will literally get 50+ million views easily, maybe even more. And when something goes on Netflix it stays on for a year minimum. So people will be constantly reminded..... so sad :( This was a nightmare. First Sundance then HBO then Oprah, now Netflix.

Even until now "Leaving Neverland" was watched from many million people all arround the world.
When you know it was sold to 130 country and you count 2 million viewers for every of this countrys you know that!!!
And you know how much money Reed, Wade, James and everyone involved in this will make out of this. Even when Wade and James say they get no money from LN, you know you can't trust prooven liars and evil backstabbers!
You know also "Michael Jackson and Wade Robson: The true story" the most LN Rebuttle video has only 2,1 Million views and, most parts of the global media stays silent about all the lies and inconcistancys so most of the people who have watched LN seamed to be not well informed
 
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Even until now "Leaving Neverland" was watched from many millionpeople all arround the world.
When you know it was sold to 130 country and you count 2 million viewers for every of this countrys you know that!!!
And you know how much money Reed, Wade, James and everyone involved in this will mske out of this. Even when Wade and James say they get no money from LN, you know you can't trust prooven liars and evil backstabbers!
And you know also "Michael Jackson and Wade Robson: The true story" the most LN Rebuttle video has only 2,1 Million views!

I wish Cory Feldmen would just shut up. NOW CNN put up his misquote. Corey said his words were twisted. How about just shut up. Amazing CNN did not run the train story but running this.
 
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