Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

A friend of mine just told me this was in the newspaper De Telegraaf as well. A shit load of people now know about it. **** these two liars and the director to hell. I seriously wish.... on them.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I hope that some of Michaels clostest friends like Diana Ross find the courage to come forward and defend MJ. She can maybe have a huge impact on the people and she was one of the few people MJ really trusted and told the most personal things besides his family members and Elisabeth. Maybe she knows things which can be usful now!
I know she never wanna talk about MJ in any interview since his death but now its maybe really nessesary!

This is really tricky. All they can really say is that they never witnessed anything inappropriate and the Michael that they knew would never have done something like this. Even Macauley (whom I love so much for always having Michael's back) can only say that Michael never did anything inappropriate to him. It's convincing, but it's not proof that other boys may have different stories. Ultimately, I haven't seen anything that is definitive proof or rebuttal that Michael is innocent (please prove me wrong), and yet he cannot be proven guilty on mere descriptive accounts either. It will always be a matter of what people choose to believe. I do fear that this will be incredibly damaging to his legacy.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Dan Reed creeps me out. His descriptions of Wade's "abuse" by Michael are very creepy and strange. Describes it as a "loving relationship" and stuff.

He describes Wade perceiving it as a loving relationship at the time. I wish it weren't at Michael's expense, but overall it's not wrong to bring to attention that these kinds of stories exist as well. Not all child molesters are violent and forceful predators, rather manipulative predators. And in a twisted and inappropriate sort of way, it is possible for both parties to have "loving" feelings for each other. This isn't a flaw in the narrative, I'm afraid.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Diana ross hasnt shown legitimate support in donkeys years.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

He describes Wade perceiving it as a loving relationship at the time. I wish it weren't at Michael's expense, but overall it's not wrong to bring to attention that these kinds of stories exist as well. Not all child molesters are violent and forceful predators, rather manipulative predators. And in a twisted and inappropriate sort of way, it is possible for both parties to have "loving" feelings for each other. This isn't a flaw in the narrative, I'm afraid.

He sounds like gutierrez and the nambla set
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

This is really tricky. All they can really say is that they never witnessed anything inappropriate and the Michael that they knew would never have done something like this. Even Macauley (whom I love so much for always having Michael's back) can only say that Michael never did anything inappropriate to him. It's convincing, but it's not proof that other boys may have different stories. Ultimately, I haven't seen anything that is definitive proof or rebuttal that Michael is innocent (please prove me wrong), and yet he cannot be proven guilty on mere descriptive accounts either. It will always be a matter of what people choose to believe. I do fear that this will be incredibly damaging to his legacy.
Yeah but maybe Diana has Jokers in her hand because of her huge deep knowlage about Michael.
And there is one thing we always speclating about:
Imagine she could reveal that she had an affair with MJ. ;-)
But I know I start dreaming now...
 
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I mean, there is no videotape of Michael Jackson having sex with a child. We don’t have that kind of proof. Although he did record himself having sex with James …

Oh, he did?
Yeah. He destroyed it — he panicked and destroyed the tapes.



dan, you are a dam fool. This has nothing made up lies as they go. So MJ whom could not get privacy out of his home nor inside of his home was doing all of this? It would be funny if I was not so mad.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

OK. People take a break. Go listen to some Michael Jackson's music, and read his book
Dancing the Dream.?*
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Wheres respect posting now. To many of the fans who are experts on the cases arent here anymore which is a great shame

Lisa marie should be calling this #$/@ out.....

Disgraceful from Dan Reed.

Where is Respect posting?

Probably can't say on here or it'd get removed. Lol

Well, Respect77 is on another (small) forum (ask in PM)
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It was about time someone do this.. :D

 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

OK. People take a break. Go listen to some Michael Jackson's music, and read his book
Dancing the Dream.?*??
I agree. still nothing on tv about nor on any news (I got my tv down pack). I think we are mostly the only one talking about this mess now. Tomorrow is another day when radio people talk. We will see if they talk about it tomorrow and see the BS in this.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

How I feel about all this is constantly changing. I have to admit I was utterly devastated on Friday. And I've been in a bubble since then I can't bare to read these so-called reviews or participate in any discussion regarding it - respect to those that are.

I found a bit of strength in Michael's words and his voice tonight...posting it here in case it may help others to remember how forthright Michael was about his innocence and to remember he was a person.


"The willingness of others to believe and exploit the worst before they have had the chance to hear the truth."

We fight on.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

OK. People take a break. Go listen to some Michael Jackson's music, and read his book
Dancing the Dream.?*??*???*??
Oh I listen to all the beautiful Motownsongs I have on my Youtube-playlist the whole day, during the time I read in the MJ Forums.
I love them very much cause they are all very postive and lightful and gets me very quickly in a good mood.
I relly neded this today after I only read and whrite in the last two days to defend MJ and becamed more and more very sad and depressed over it to find new stength and Inspiration for this!
 
It’s sad that a lot of the information hasn’t been put together by a more neutral party. The fact that a lot of information is put together by fans discredits it in a lot of people’s eyes.

As someone who was around for the trial...Given the response to this film at the film festival... the only advice I can really give is hang in there. It’s going to get worse especially once it airs. And watch what you say here there are people watching. Probably.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

In terms of media coverage we're back to 2004....


Just heard that the NOS Journaal (actual news) has picked up on this and they reported about it. I just physically feel tired. Somehow I just believed this wouldn't reach outside of the tabloidy channels/programs. And if it reaches Dutch news it sure as hell will reach the news in many countries. The estate should not remain quiet anymore, go on full offense I say.


**** this world.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Really hope the Estate are planning some kind of media blitz. If they leave it too long these allegations will frame the narrative for a long time.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

He describes Wade perceiving it as a loving relationship at the time. I wish it weren't at Michael's expense, but overall it's not wrong to bring to attention that these kinds of stories exist as well. Not all child molesters are violent and forceful predators, rather manipulative predators. And in a twisted and inappropriate sort of way, it is possible for both parties to have "loving" feelings for each other. This isn't a flaw in the narrative, I'm afraid.


Wade claims MJ raped him at the very first time they met when he was 7 years old. and he continued to rape him until he reached puberty. Now that is a traumatising experience for any child. This is not a teenager boy with sex in his mind. This was a 7 years damn old child who had not even reached puberty when he was being allegedly raped. so how was he 'enjoying' anything? And assuming he enjoyed being sodomized so much, why he never had a sexual experience with other males? How come? not even bi?
 
marialovesmjj;4238498 said:
It’s sad that a lot of the information hasn’t been put together by a more neutral party. The fact that a lot of information is put together by fans discredits it in a lot of people’s eyes.

As someone who was around for the trial...Given the response to this film at the film festival... the only advice I can really give is hang in there. It’s going to get worse especially once it airs. And watch what you say here there are people watching. Probably.
Yes we need somone like Aphrodite Jones back. She should try to inview Wades sister.
Did she made any reconizeable movement since Januray 6 ?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Dan Reed is a pedo himself. he needs to be investigated. He does not even want to mute MJ. His mission from this documentary is not only to deflect from real predators in Hollywood and gain global success but he wants to support the notion that "not all child molesters are violent and forceful predators", "children as young as 7 years old could enjoy being sodomised" and "here are the examples. Notice that none of MJ's accusers ever turned out to be gay. All of them fell in love with a male but never tried to repeat the experience with any other male. Statistically how possible is this? Not single one of them turned out to be even bi.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Wade claims MJ raped him at the very first time they met when he was 7 years old. and he continued to rape him until he reached puberty. Now that is a traumatising experience for any child. This is not a teenager boy with sex in his mind. This was a 7 years damn old child who had not even reached puberty when he was being allegedly raped. so how was he 'enjoying' anything? And assuming he enjoyed being sodomized so much, why he never had a sexual experience with other males? How come? not even bi?

It's technically rape, because he was underage. It's just the term for it. I think (and bear in mind I haven't seen the film or remember exactly whether it conflicts with his earlier statements) that the claim is that it started out with fondling and oral stuff etc. At least Safechuck claims that sodomizing was attempted, but not successfully, only when he was 14? Again, it's graphical and unnecessary, but in order to argue or refute, we have to understand the narrative. We don't know if Wade has or hasn't had sexual experience with other males, do we? And many things can be pleasurable physically and it needn't have anything to do with your sexual orientation.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Dan Reed is a pedo himself. he needs to be investigated. He does not even want to mute MJ. His mission from this documentary is not only to deflect from real predators in Hollywood and gain global success but he wants to support the notion that "not all child molesters are violent and forceful predators", "children as young as 7 years old could enjoy being sodomised" and "here are the examples. Notice that none of MJ's accusers ever turned out to be gay. All of them fell in love with a male but never tried to repeat the experience with any other male. Statistically how possible is this? Not single one of them turned out to be even bi.

OK, sorry but this is kind of ignorant.
 
Debbie Allen could help in this fight. I know she has produced tv shows like Greys Anatomy. She is a powerful woman and love MJ. I’m not a social media person put if someone could reach out to her it would only help the fight. We need people like her to step up and HELP. Jay Z and Beyonce and well. Let’s go MJ Fam!!!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It's technically rape, because he was underage. It's just the term for it. I think (and bear in mind I haven't seen the film or remember exactly whether it conflicts with his earlier statements) that the claim is that it started out with fondling and oral stuff etc. At least Safechuck claims that sodomizing was attempted, but not successfully, only when he was 14? Again, it's graphical and unnecessary, but in order to argue or refute, we have to understand the narrative. We don't know if Wade has or hasn't had sexual experience with other males, do we? And many things can be pleasurable physically and it needn't have anything to do with your sexual orientation.

He was not underage only, he was 7 years old. That what he has claimed that he was RAPED when he was 7 years old. How was that pleasurable physically? He claims he bled when he was 13 or 14, after 7 years of being raped he was still bleeding so how "loving" and "pleasurable" was the first time when he was 7 years old?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Was talking to a friend of mine, hardcore MJ fan as well. He's now afraid they are gonna boycot MJ music on Spotify now, just like with R Kelly. However, I told him what you guys told me here. That the huge difference is with Kelly is that barely anything can be debunked about the doc. The exact opposite is true about MJ.

If it even gets that far, of course. Let's hope not because that would be disastrous. And I'm sure the estate will do something about that because if that were to happen, they are touching their money, their profits. It's so goddamn frustrating how this shit is being brought as news, similar to 2004, while cold hard and VERY important facts exist about this. **** man, so frustrating.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

He describes Wade perceiving it as a loving relationship at the time. I wish it weren't at Michael's expense, but overall it's not wrong to bring to attention that these kinds of stories exist as well. Not all child molesters are violent and forceful predators, rather manipulative predators. And in a twisted and inappropriate sort of way, it is possible for both parties to have "loving" feelings for each other. This isn't a flaw in the narrative, I'm afraid.


I agree with your explanation, I try to explain some pages back too. this type of abuse in which the child loves his abuser also exists, it is real, not all abusers are violent predators and unpleasant, many are people who are kind, educated, who even treat the child well and show him love, sometimes also for children these abusers are fun, they idolize and even love and appreciate them, but because of this type of relationship the abuser is introducing them little by little into sexual games without forcing or damaging them, and children are letting themselves be made, even to sometimes they also do it , and they think it's okay, that it's not bad, and the children end up feeling more in "a relationship of friendship where there are consensual sexual games", which is why even years later they can even deny it, because of shame because they let themselves be made and participated believing that it was okay or they could even like it, or they simply let themselves be carried away because they were doing it with someone who loved them and whom they loved or admired, it is mplejo, child abuse has many forms, not only there is the typical profile of abuse in which the child is forced, other times abuse occurs in the way I have told and this is the most difficult because the victims when they are adults have many problems to accept what happened without feeling guilty themselves for not telling or for letting themselves be done, sometimes they even deny it and defend the abuser because for them it is someone from their environment they admire or want because the abuser is not always evil with children. It is very difficult to understand and accept this type of abuse for the abused themselves. So yes, exists one type on abuse where the victim and his abuser have a loving relationship and only when that child grows up, is an adult and spend years understand that he was abused, some take more time than others to understand that what happened to them was not a good relationship and that it was wrong, because although they felt that there was brotherly love or friendship At the end it was a sexual relationship between an adult and a child, And isnt normal, they understand all and they realize it all explodes and that's when all the problems, stress, depression, anxiety come to them , and this fear of saying it or denying it is explained by this,
because in this type of abuse the child builds a fraternal or friendship relationship where the abuser and the child have love. is a very strong confrontation that even destroys their memories of childhood and their life and even the relationships they had until now they relive everything again by going all out to the light.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

He was not underage only, he was 7 years old. That what he has claimed that he was RAPED when he was 7 years old. How was that pleasurable physically? He claims he bled when he was 13 or 14, after 7 years of being raped he was still bleeding so how "loving" and "pleasurable" was the first time when he was 7 years old?

It's statutory rape whether you're 7 or 14 (or is it 12 in the US?). And it's also rape if it's only oral sex which I believe is the claim for most of the 7 year period. The story seems to be that he was sodomized once when he was 14, and it was painful not pleasurable and not attempted again.
My point is, I think it's important to focus on inconsistencies in their accounts (compared to earlier accounts and any factual information we have), rather than the implausibility of the narrative regarding childhood molestation in general. Because it is plausible, of course it is, don't you think they did their research?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I agree with your explanation, I try to explain some pages back too. this type of abuse in which the child loves his abuser also exists, it is real, not all abusers are violent predators and unpleasant, many are people who are kind, educated, who even treat the child well and show him love, sometimes also for children these abusers are fun, they idolize and even love and appreciate them, but because of this type of relationship the abuser is introducing them little by little into sexual games without forcing or damaging them, and children are letting themselves be made, even to Sometimes they also do it, and they think it's okay, that it's not bad, and the children end up feeling more in "a relationship of friendship where there are consensual sexual games", which is why even years later they can even deny it, because of shame because they let themselves be made and participated believing that it was okay or they could even like it, or they simply let themselves be carried away because they were doing it with someone who loved them and whom they loved or admired, it is mplejo, child abuse has many forms, not only there is the typical profile of abuse in which the child is forced, other times abuse occurs in the way I have told and this is the most difficult because the victims when they are adults have many problems to accept what happened without feeling guilty themselves for not telling or for letting themselves be done, sometimes they even deny it and defend the abuser because for them it is someone from their environment they admire or want because the abuser is not always evil with children. It is very difficult to understand and accept this type of abuse for the abused themselves. So yes, exists one type on abuse where the victim and his abuser have a loving relationship and only when that child grows up, is an adult and spend years understand that he was abused, some take more time than others to understand that what happened to them was not a spoiled relationship and that it was wrong, because although they felt that there was brotherly love or friendship At the end it was a sexual relationship between an adult and a child, And isnt normal, the understand all and they realize it all explodes and that's when all the problems, stress, depression, anxiety come to them ... and they relive everything again by going all out to the light

If only he did not claim he was RAPED when he was 7 years old on the very first night he slept in bed with MJ.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

If only he did not claim he was RAPED when he was 7 years old on the very first night he slept in bed with MJ.

See, if you could find a source where he did explicitly say he was sodomized at age 7, that would be very helpful, because that's inconsistent with the documentary's narrative (I think - based on the reports, haven't seen it myself).
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It's statutory rape whether you're 7 or 14 (or is it 12 in the US?). And it's also rape if it's only oral sex which I believe is the claim for most of the 7 year period. The story seems to be that he was sodomized once when he was 14, and it was painful not pleasurable and not attempted again.
My point is, I think it's important to focus on inconsistencies in their accounts (compared to earlier accounts and any factual information we have), rather than the implausibility of the narrative regarding childhood molestation in general. Because it is plausible, of course it is, don't you think they did their research?

No he did claim in his filings that he was sodomised not only oral sex. The story about sodomy once when he was 14 is new for the documentary along with the underwear with blood and MJ panicking.
 
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