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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Even less people will buy into one about the Arvisos. It’s already been done and dusted in the public eye. People either believe the outcome of the trial or they don’t. I can’t see what he could put in a documentary to change that, it will once again ignore all the facts and just be 2 hours of testimony of alleged abuse.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
So I watched the video by that music reviewer Anthony Fantano. Basically he keeps going back to the sharing of the bed, how it's not normal, how it was very wrong back then already, how it could also give children the wrong impression, even if everyone in the bed lies neatly on their own side. It's not good for the personal space of children etc. He made it clear how Michael had relationships with several boys and so on.

Not once did he say he thought he was guilty, he kinda keeps it like, anything could have happened. And he ends the segment with MJ during that interview while the trial was going on and again saying there's nothing wrong with it.
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Michael began working professionally since he was 5 years old. He and his brother's started out in strip clubs, because they worked the Chitlin Circuit. The Beatles also worked in strip clubs in Germany, but they were grown men. Michael sang about groupies and how he understood their allure and the money one would make and the lifestyle. This is why he enjoyed the company of kid's. The kid's had not gotten jaded by money yet. Michael related to the story book character Peter Pan, because Peter would forever remain innocent from the world of the adult's. Michael allowed sleep overs, because that's what kids enjoy. Call it eccentric, but in the world of Show Business, I don't blame Michael for taking the route he did!
 
Imagine the arvizo doc..

'there were no clocks at Neverland!'
*cuts to drone shot of Neverland clock*

then the reviews afterward 'The arvizo's are so courageous and brave'
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
So I watched the video by that music reviewer Anthony Fantano. Basically he keeps going back to the sharing of the bed, how it's not normal, how it was very wrong back then already, how it could also give children the wrong impression, even if everyone in the bed lies neatly on their own side. It's not good for the personal space of children etc. He made it clear how Michael had relationships with several boys and so on.

Not once did he say he thought he was guilty, he kinda keeps it like, anything could have happened. And he ends the segment with MJ during that interview while the trial was going on and again saying there's nothing wrong with it.
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This quote from MJ that sharing his bad his nothing wrong, is misinterpretated and often taken out of context.
When he said that he ment he gave the bed to the kid in his generousety when he/she wants to sleep in it and he sept on the floor.

What people not see or not consider is that Michael had a very permanent magnetic, magical, unique aura and caracter that people esspecially children to want stay with him 24 hours all 7 days a week.
And Michael who loved children the most and saw god in them, in his generousity could not say NO when a child ask him if he/she can stay with him in his biiiiiig room or sleep in his bed.

I belive him 100 percent when he said in 1995 that he never invided any child in his room or in his bed.
When they had sleepovers there then it was because the children wanted it on their own and MJ in his generousity allowed it, mostly the parents too.
 
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dam2040 said:
imagine the arvizo doc..

'there were no clocks at neverland!'
*cuts to drone shot of neverland clock*

then the reviews afterward 'the arvizo's are so courageous and brave'
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they tried to stuff me in a hot air baloon to brazil!!!!!!!!11111
 
I think we need to be more concerned about the tidal wave of copycat documentaries we've just written blank cheques to.

The storm this created was so big that others will want to come in. We already know about Jacques Perretti but there will be more. A rebuttal documentary needs to come and be backed by a huge network so people will sit up and take notice. The tone has become a little reflective lately but this ain't over.
 
dam2040 said:
Imagine the arvizo doc..

'there were no clocks at Neverland!'
*cuts to drone shot of Neverland clock*

then the reviews afterward 'The arvizo's are so courageous and brave'
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? he held us hostage. Next clip we went on a shopping spree with his credit card and got a full leg wax?
 
Resa said:
I saw on Twitter that Reed is following Paris. Hopefully she will block him.
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She needs to burst him out and say "Stop following me. Why are u following me" since the media will pick up what she say. That say something about him.
 
Robbsaber01 said:
Appearently Dan Reed wants to do another doc about the 2005 trial but only if the Arvisos cooperate. I really hope that never happens. He has some nerve even following Paris on Twitter.
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They will be laughted out and Dan will look even more like a fool and a stalker. It aint looking good for him now and it is just getting started.
 
Arckangel;4250395 said:
I don't think [MJ sharing a bed is] weird at all. It's not uncommon for roommates and even friends or family members on certain occasions (and during sleepovers) to share a bed. As MJ said, people associate bed with sex too much, and the media put way too much emphasis on that. If I had kids and MJ were still alive, I'd definitely let them in his care, and I'd let them in the care of any adult I truly and fully trusted.
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I do see your point. But this is the issue many people can’t seem to get round and no amount of telling people “I think it’s ok” is going to change their mind. Many people think this is wrong full stop and I see their point.

I find myself in a far stronger position argument-wise if I start off by accepting that I do not agree with sharing beds/rooms and admitting that I would not let my children stay with any adult that wasn’t related. You disarm people then because you bring the argument back on to the facts and not on the moral question of room/bed sharing. It shows people it’s ok to think the way Mj lived his life was inadvisable BUT THAT THAT DOES NOT AMOUNT TO CRIMINAL CONDUCT. And it’s that that’s the issue here. The number of times I’m asked “would you let your kids stay at MJs”. I just say “no, but that’s irrelevant”... let’s talk about the evidence and facts.
 
MJJ2theMAX;4250463 said:
I do see your point. But this is the issue many people can’t seem to get round and no amount of telling people “I think it’s ok” is going to change their mind. Many people think this is wrong full stop and I see their point.

I find myself in a far stronger position argument-wise if I start off by accepting that I do not agree with sharing beds/rooms and admitting that I would not let my children stay with any adult that wasn’t related. You disarm people then because you bring the argument back on to the facts and not on the moral question of room/bed sharing. It shows people it’s ok to think the way Mj lived his life was inadvisable BUT THAT THAT DOES NOT AMOUNT TO CRIMINAL CONDUCT. And it’s that that’s the issue here. The number of times I’m asked “would you let your kids stay at MJs”. I just say “no, but that’s irrelevant”... let’s talk about the evidence and facts.
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Agreed, that's the best way to go. If you say it's ok for him to sleep in the bed with kids then they're instantly going to call you crazy or deluded.

Personally, knowing Michael's story and picturing the situation I dont think its that weird. I have an image of them watching films and stuff then just falling asleep fully clothed. People have this image of them stripping half naked and getting under the covers to go to sleep together like a lot of people do, I dont see it that way.

But believe me, start off your argument saying it's not normal and you'll stand a better chance. They will instantly discredit you if you try to act like it's normal.
 
ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona said:
This quote from MJ that sharing his bad his nothing wrong, is misinterpretated and often taken out of context.
When he said that he ment he gave the bed to the kid in his generousety when he/she wants to sleep in it and he sept on the floor.

What people not see or not consider is that Michael had a very permanent magnetic, magical, unique aura and caracter that people esspecially children to want stay with him 24 hours all 7 days a week.
And Michael who loved children the most and saw god in them in his generousity could not say NO when a child ask him if he/she can stay with him in his biiiiiig room or sleep in his bed.

I belive him 100 percent when he said in 1995 that he never invided any child in his room or in his bed.
When they had sleepovers there then it was because they wanted it on their own and MJ in his generousity allowed it mostly the parents too.
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Michael said himself in LWMJ that sometimes he slept in the bed with the children.
 
Anna said:
Michael said himself in LWMJ that sometimes he slept in the bed with the children.
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My comment was only based on MJs quote that it is nothing wrong to share your bed with somone.
He didn't mean that he automatically slept in the bed with that person when he said the word share.
Its important to listen to the whole Ed Barley interview repeatetly and very accurate in english to know exactly what Michael said and what is interpretation.
The next two interviews Michael gave in 2005 to Geraldo River AND Jesse Jackson are also very important.
Its sad that we still didn't have to this day the Jesse Jackson interview in one video on youtube.
I can only find it in many parts.
 
MJInnocent said:
Rudi Dolezal who recorded the Dangerous tour is claiming he believes every word in LN.
He also is saying things about his features.
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He's also saying (if it's really him) that Joe made MJ dance on a hot stovetop barefoot as a kid and that he had a prosthetic nose that he had to put on every day with putty lol.
 
MJInnocent said:
Rudi Dolezal who recorded the Dangerous tour is claiming he believes every word in LN.
He also is saying things about his features.
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He had maybe only a buisness relationship with Michael like many others.
People should ask him if he ever was in neverland and how often.
Then we knew how close he was to Michael.
People who never were in Neverland were not close to Michael for me.

Remember also that Michael never stood in the same hotels with his tour staff so they couldn't have witnessed anything.

This is onlyone backstabber more who wants to take advantage of the situation for attention, money and fame.
 
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A quick resarch on Rudi Doezal shows that he is a backstabber and hater on Michael since maaaaany years.

He made this veeeeeeery negative german documentary about him together with other backstabbers like Marcel Afran and Thomas Gottschalk which was uploaded on YouTube in 2012!

https://youtu.be/m_py5yPw_Hc

So don't give him attention.
 
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It's tiring. The famous people or people who knew Michael who defend him reassure me, but as soon as there is one person who says he believes the "victims", it puts me back to square one and I start to doubt again (for example Rudi Dolezal now that you're talking about him).

The only relief for me would be them admitting their lies, and this will never happen. I hope that the Estate is preparing their response well because they must absolutely succeed. All these boycotts are concerning.

I love Michael Jackson since I'm 7 years old, and I'm 27 today. I don't know as much about him as all of you, even though I'm a fan I don't know all the people he knew, befriended with, etc. So I learn a lot on this thread but I'm also a bit lost because I don't have all the keys to understand everything and have my own opinion.
So I'm counting on the hardcore fans here who have a huge knowledge about his life to comfort me haha.

Sorry for my English again, this is not my native language.
 
Wade is on TMZ saying it's not necessary to mute MJ according to another site I was just on. I hate TMZ and refuse to give them any hits but Wade is full of it and only trying to make himself come across as more credible. Like oh even though MJ did all these awful things to me as a child we shouldn't mute him. Makes no sense. Why wouldn't you want your abuser muted anyway?

This is just a tactic to seem more credible.
 
Where does it say this guy recorded the Dangerous Tour? I cant see anything about him working with Michael.
 
Cinnamon234 said:
Wade is on TMZ saying it's not necessary to mute MJ according to another site I was just on. I hate TMZ and refuse to give them any hits but Wade is full of it and only trying to make himself come across as more credible. Like oh even though MJ did all these awful things to me as a child we shouldn't mute him. Makes no sense. Why wouldn't you want your abuser muted anyway?

This is just a tactic to seem more credible.
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Many he thinks like other people, that the artist must be separated from his art. LOL
 
There's no point in even mentioning Rudi Dolezal's name. Only an idiot would believe his claims. He's irrelevant.
 
Who the hell is Rudi Dozeal anyway, this is the first I've heard of him.
 
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