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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Initially he said he would watch LN. Fans dig up old comments of his that were insulting to MJ. He has been blocking fans on Twitter who have called him out—they have posted screen shots.
 
I haven't seen this on the thread before: from Adrian Grant on FB (Thriller Live creator, UK).

'It doesn’t matter what I say or do, the media will always write what they want about me.” Michael Jackson, June 2002

This was Michael Jackson’s reply to me when I asked him about how he was perceived in the press, and why he didn’t just come out and tell them who the real Michael Jackson is away from the spotlight. The media would be a subject that we discussed a number of times over the years, from his appearance at the Brit Awards in 1996 to how he felt there should be a burning of all newspapers which had persecuted him. To quote the lyrics from his song, 'Tabloid Junkie', "Just because you read it in a magazine, Or see it on the TV screen, Don’t make it factual".

Michael Jackson is currently being publicly executed over accusations levelled against him by Wade Robson and James Safechuck who he considered to be close friends. Despite the fact that the stories told by these two men have repeatedly changed and are often contradictory, the media have chosen to treat their claims as fact, even though there is no actual evidence at all to back up their allegations. In addition to this they were key witnesses for Michael’s defence in 2005, when he was completely cleared in a court of law, where both men stated they had never been abused by the star. Furthermore Michael was secretly investigated by the FBI for a period of over 10 years and the publicly available report states that they found no evidence of any wrong doing on Michael’s part.

When Michael died on 25th June 2009, I thought he would finally rest in peace, with his musical legacy left for us all to enjoy and his work as a philanthropist there to admire, still having a positive influence around the world.

In the lead up to the broadcast of the documentary, Leaving Neverland, more and more celebrity influencers have come out and labelled Michael Jackson a paedophile, with some media organisations denouncing his music or existence altogether. None moreso than Oprah Winfrey. This public lynching is really shameful because, of course, Michael cannot defend himself against the accusations being made against him and, because defamation laws do not protect the dead, anyone can say anything they wish about him safe in the knowledge that they can’t be sued.

Let me be clear, I strongly believe that anyone alleging abuse of any kind should have their voice heard. But, in a court of law their testimonies would be heard and cross-examined and evidence would be scrutinised in order to ensure a fair verdict is reached. In this instance, the failure to present any exculpatory evidence or interview anyone who could challenge the accusers’ versions of events makes the ‘documentary’ a totally one-sided X-rated horror movie cleverly edited with the sole intention of hanging Michael Jackson in the court of public opinion.

I have been advised by some not to get involved with this debate. To say nothing and let it pass. But I cannot do that. It would be as morally wrong for me to remain silent, as it is for the media to convict Michael without a fair trial or evidence.

I want to say this about the man I knew for 21 years, travelled the world with and spent numerous occasions at Neverland, hotels and in the recording studio with: Michael Jackson was the most kind and loving person I have ever met. Sadly, sometimes it is those who give the most that are taken advantage of the most. Michael was a unique and beautiful soul who had a child’s heart and, yes, he did sometimes act like a big kid - full of laughter, joy and playfulness. Not bad qualities to have!

In March 1990, I became the first person to have an article published about life at Michael’s home, Neverland Valley Ranch. I’ve told the story many times, but I’ll retell a small part here to give you an insight into who he really was.

I was lucky enough to be invited to Record One Studios where Michael was recording his album, 'Dangerous'. I was there to present him with an award from the readers of ‘Off The Wall’, a fan magazine which I published. Michael marvelled at the award, a 6 foot x 3 foot oil painting depicting his 21-year career at the time. I then interviewed Michael for the magazine and took some pictures, before being treated to an exclusive preview of a new song, 'Man In Black' (which never actually made the final album). Towards the end of the day, Michael surprised me by asking me if I would like to visit his ranch for lunch at the weekend. I literally fell off my seat and accepted the invitation with glee.

Saturday came and as I was driven through the striking Neverland gates, I remember being amazed at the beautiful lush 3,000 acre valley. Upon signing in, we walked towards the main house and in the distance I could see two chimpanzees rolling around on the grass, giraffes, llamas, the funfair and a lake full of flamingos as classical music echoed out from speakers in the flowerbeds. I commented to the security guard who was accompanying me that this wasn’t reality, but he replied “well it’s reality for Michael Jackson. This is what he wakes up to every morning.” And that was true. Michael had lived a life that, since the age of 11, when he had his first number one with The Jackson Five, he was able to have almost anything that he wanted. Fortunately, Michael chose to channel most of his desires towards something positive and after getting to know Michael I saw how much he really did care for children – often opening the Neverland gates to the underprivileged or disabled. I feel this (his charitable work), along with four decades of great music is his greatest legacy.

I saw many more examples of Michael’s humanitarian efforts over the years. During a trip to Budapest in August 1994, Michael, along with Lisa-Marie Presley (and, incidentally, James Safechuck), visited a number of hospitals, handing out toys to the sick children. I was fortunate to be the only ‘media person’ allowed to accompany them into the hospitals and I was happy to help distribute the gifts to the children. However, the press were sceptical and suggested the trip (part of Michael’s ‘Heal The World’ campaign), was nothing more than a publicity stunt. What they didn’t see was the moving moment when Michael brought a smile to the face of a very poorly young girl who had lain motionless and silent for weeks. Her mother, at her side in constant vigil, broke down in tears as her daughter reached out and touched Michael’s hand. Moments like that mattered to Michael. He had a real caring affinity for children and I believe he related to them more than he did to adults. Whether that was because he didn’t have a childhood or the fact they didn’t judge or want from him, I don’t know but it was clear that the connection was genuine. I visited Neverland many more times over the years. Sometimes Michael would be present, and sometimes I was there to accompany fans who had won competitions via my magazine, but each trip was memorable and I was always made to feel welcome being invited to enjoy the amenities be that playing in the arcade, the rides in the funfair or watching movies in the theatre. I remember once seeing a group of kids playing basketball and amongst them was one very famous face: Macaulay Culkin. I walked over and said ‘Hi’, and he politely said ‘Hi’ back before continuing to shoot hoops. I can categorically state that not once in all my visits to Neverland and all my dealings with Michael did I ever see anything inappropriate taking place or feel there was something untoward in Michael’s behaviour with any of the children that he interacted with.

Having spent time with Michael alone many times, I too could make up spurious allegations against him. Thankfully I have integrity, honor and would never sell my soul to the devil by falsely accusing another of such a heinous crime for my own financial gain. More importantly, as Michael’s mother, Katherine, once told me “there is nothing bad to say because Michael was all good”.

However, there are people that I know and have worked with who, since Michael passed, have fabricated stories about him to benefit either their careers or bank balance. I find it disgusting that these people can lie so convincingly without a moment’s pause, guilt or recollection of the actual truth. These people seemingly live in a parallel universe where they have convinced themselves what they say is true, and do not care about the damaging consequences their actions may have on others. No need for those who listen or print their stories to check facts; the liar’s version of events is taken as gospel and is digitised around the world in a second where headlines, clicks and instant gratification is all that counts.

I actually sat down last year with Channel 4 (I was unaware that at the time they were producing Leaving Neverland with HBO), and pitched my own documentary to them, about 'Thriller Live' and my time with Michael. The commissioners, however, were not interested in anything that would provide a glowing review of Michael’s artistry or good nature. They wanted to know what "juice" I had, gossip that people hadn’t heard before. A lot of what is broadcast comes down to ratings and what will draw in the biggest audience. Bad news is what seems to sell most.

Many people ask why Michael settled out of court when child abuse allegations first broke in 1993. At the time, Michael was subject to a criminal investigation but the Chandlers also filed a civil lawsuit against him, demanding financial compensation. Advised by his lawyer at the time, Johnnie Cochran, Michael made the out of court settlement to end the civil case first, and put a stop to all the scandal and misleading headlines, leaving him free to resume his career and tour that he was on at the time. The Chandlers walked away with $25 million between them, and never pressed for the criminal trial to go ahead, although prosecutor, Tom Sneddon later tried to but failed due to a lack of evidence.

Michael’s friendship with Jordy Chandler had made him an easy target, and unfortunately the ’93 case set a precedent, making the next opportunist that would come along sound even more plausible and so it goes on.

Some people will sadly believe that Michael Jackson was a paedophile based on nothing but rumours and without any understanding of the true facts of the allegations made against him. Some call him ‘*****’ or a freak because he didn’t live a normal everyday lifestyle. Some will be undecided. At the end of the day, it comes down to Michael’s word against those of the accusers - many of whom have either been found to be liars, fraudsters or have told completely opposite stories under oath. Anything outside of that is just opinion, and mine is that Michael Jackson is totally innocent of all and any abuse allegations made against him. Yes, he was eccentric, and sometimes naive – but they are not crimes. I think he saw himself as a protector of children. He almost was Peter Pan playing at Neverland with the Lost Boys (and girls) - someone that many would find hard to comprehend and believe in. But I was fortunate enough to experience his world of kindness, goodwill and pure imagination for 21-years, and it has inspired me to dream bigger, help others and be the best I can be.

As well as having one of the greatest catalogues in musical history, Michael Jackson left behind three children of his own that he loved and raised. I can’t begin to imagine how traumatic this is for them, but there has to be more thought and responsibility in the way that this is being handled. I am speaking up not only because Michael was a friend, or my work, but because I believe in fairness and we can’t let the media be judge, jury and executor.

As Malcom X once said; “the media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.”

So I say to convict Michael Jackson without actual fact and evidence is to give up on innocence itself.

Adrian Grant
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What makes me really angry is that when NAMBLA is behind this the documantary it sells the imaginatation that children can have a normal loving relationship with an adult man were they enjoy the sex between them with no problems or bad impact of their psychlogy, lifes or career.
Cause the extreme reactions of real victims(like we had it in the R Kelly documentary) when they talk about their experinces are not in the faces of these two actors!!!
It helps peodfiles that the worldwide society will see them in a other light.

That is maybe for me exectly what NAMBLA member wants: Loving relatinships with children who enjoy the sex between them like it is described in Leaving Neverland.

Maybe it is right that Leaving Neverland is not about Michael Jacksons, it is about peodofilia phantasies!!!
 
So this Oprah crap has happened now, hasn't it? I recall that her little show would be right after LN had aired, or did I recall wrong? Just want all this shit to be over with. Yesterday it mostly felt good, because of there actually being plenty Pro MJ comments, such stuff just empowers you but then comes more bad news.

What Mano said, they pretty much are sending it to almost every possible country you can imagine. To think that people can actually with a straight face say they are on their side is sickening, it's pathetic really. But it's this sickening man/boy love narrative that is the cause of all these glowing reviews. Had it been like Arvixo's trash, it wouldn't have had this kind of praise.

I genuinely believe the MeToo movement has now ruined more than they have fixed. This whole mindstate of always siding with the accuser. **** outta here with that. Goddamn it man, we're powerless here but I would give good amounts of money to have these four just thrown the **** behind bars. Yes it's disgusting all the graphic details and that says a lot about who made the "documentary" especially but can't stress enough that these reviewers who all praise it, the few celebrities so far and of course people in general should school themselves on things.
 
wonderouzmj said:
Man this just hit me hard. I remember being on YouTube years ago & sometimes today wondering all those shows he did throughout his life where the hell are all those fans. The ones that passed out & where crying or attended every show? Like it seems we are very small its very errie...almost like an alternate universe! I still blame the us changing after 9/11 & coincidentally he had a show in ny the night b4...smh wow
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Yall stop. Not all MJ fans are online and many do not care what the media say. We focus too much on what few haters say and media is out for ratings and making $$$$$$. Look how MJ is focus on but NOT Harvey Weinstein. Did his doc sell over 130 countries? NO. So they care nothing about victims only who can grab the headlines. MJ will be fine. On the radio here they played 4 songs since the past 4 hours.
 
Did anyone see this by Cory

Corey Feldman watched the “Leaving Neverland” documentary and he had something to tweet about it. When Corey was 13 and Michael was 30, they became friends. But Corey said Michael never touched him inappropriately during their relationship. He tweeted, “All i know is what I experienced, & yes every experience was the same….right up 2 the sex part!That is where it becomes lala land, instead of neverland 4 me. We never spoke about sex other than a few warnings about how sex was scary, & dangerous…” He said he was thinking about releasing some recordings of conversations he had with Michael to “giv ppl a real look @ what a 30 yr old man/child & a 13 yr old boy would discuss, so every1 could hear the innocence of r relationship. Again i wasnt there when those boys were. But i was there around the same time as jimmy, & i saw many kids around (girls included) who i am… Still friends with 2 this day, & none of us were ever approached by him in a sexual way at all! So as much as those 2 men deserve 2 hav their voices heard, so do the thousands of kids who hung around him, that dont agree!” Corey went on to say that his memories of Michael are mostly fond, except for the one time they had a fight because Michael was afraid Corey would turn on him and make up lies. But Corey said, “I never did. I never would! I pray those boys can sleep w that same clarity of consciousness! let God b thy judge!” He also tweeted a photo of a handwritten letter that Michael wrote to his sister-in-law DeeDee about her three sons, who would be Michael’s nephews. It said, “Dee Dee please read this article about child molestation and please read it to Taj, TJ and Taryll, it brings out how even your own relatives can be molesters of children, or even uncles and aunts molesting nephews or nieces. Please read. Love MJ”
I think more people need to see this letter written by Michael Jackson to his sister in law Dee Dee. Maybe reshare it? pic.twitter.com/hyQTwuqmMJ
— Cindy (@redheadbeauty4) March 4, 2019

​
 
* IF anyone here fallows the Kardashians on social media (or have friends that do) hit them up and tell them to help with the taj gofundme, they are cose to the Jacksons

* Why don't we get a well spoken MJ fan to call in TMZ live about the allegations, calling out some key lying points in the doc..


Just two things that came to my head while not sleeping when I should thinking about this sh**
 
elusive moonwalker said:
DDam said:
People are actually bringing up the old stuff gene Simmons said,

https://mobile.twitter.com/Truth_Quest30/status/1102781773988024325

if someone on Twitter or caramelicedtea themselves sees this, I remember Jennifer Batten was one example to respond to this tweet with
I searched to find this article

Simmons throws stones to hide his hands. Hes been accused enough over the years.
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Anyone talking about Gene Simmons is a troll. NO one with logic will quote nothing he say. He is the King of pervert.
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ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona;4245564 said:
Charles Thompsons on radio about LN:

[video=youtube;LHvmi_Cr8QY]
https://youtu.be/LHvmi_Cr8QY[/video]
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Excellent interview!! I think more interviews like this would change the minds of people believing Robson and Safechuck’s story.
 
myosotis said:
I haven't seen this on the thread before: from Adrian Grant on FB (Thriller Live creator, UK).
Click to expand...

That was beautiful to read and at the same time so damn sad. Truly the best kinds of people are being taken advantage of. Do you have a link to this? Because I'm gonna post it on FB and Twitter. It needs to be out there, even if likely not many will read it.
 
What is all this rubbish doom and gloom saying “oh I see all these fans in the crowd at MJ concerts in the 80/90s but where are they now”? Are you joking? Have you been on twitter YouTube and Facebook recently? I’m STAGGERED at the number of supportive voices MJ is getting. And that’s not even his whole fanbase. Even out of my v close friends I know about 4 Mj fans that aren’t interested in getting involved in arguing online and are just enjoying listening to Mj quietly at home still.

Seriously even the NY times/post (?) has done an article today on how many devoted and mobilised Mj fans there are!

Now let’s stop wasting time discussing this and let’s get back out there are give people the FACFS 🙌🏻👍🏻
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier;4245660 said:
That was beautiful to read and at the same time so damn sad. Truly the best kinds of people are being taken advantage of. Do you have a link to this? Because I'm gonna post it on FB and Twitter. It needs to be out there, even if likely not many will read it.
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Just search “Adrian grant” on Facebook - that’s how I found it
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
That was beautiful to read and at the same time so damn sad. Truly the best kinds of people are being taken advantage of. Do you have a link to this? Because I'm gonna post it on FB and Twitter. It needs to be out there, even if likely not many will read it.
Click to expand...

Can you please post it? I don't have FB anymore
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
I don't have a real channel of my own in YouTube, well just some videos of my dogs but nothing huge. But my Twitter did got locked yesterday for unknown reason. It said something about unusual behavior. And not following the Twitter rules. Was easy to get it back though.
Click to expand...


Thanks,


agh.. I had a lot going on and people are going to think I am not responding because im full of crap defending Michael.. Super annoying, I know there is a complaint form (which I don't know how to find) and I see that it will ask my youtube domain address (which how the hell do I get it if I can't log in?)


it says 4-6 WEEKS to naturally get unsuspended..

ANYONE else out there dealt with this, or is more savvy than I am when it comes to youtube/social media. I am a bit old school with this stuff.
 
@Terrell

I went to that tweet and saw some of the responses, sigh. I honestly just hate some people and their stupidity. Apparently they believe MJ was abused, but also has all the hallmarks of someone that knows how to manipulate the kids and their families. It's textbook stuff they say. Apparently the letter he wrote about abuse has been turned into something it really isn't now. I'm giving up on people.

And those are people (total facking numbskulls) replying to Corey.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
That was beautiful to read and at the same time so damn sad. Truly the best kinds of people are being taken advantage of. Do you have a link to this? Because I'm gonna post it on FB and Twitter. It needs to be out there, even if likely not many will read it.
Click to expand...

I could link to his FB page, but not that particular post (I'm not sure how to).

It's easy to find on his page though.

https://www.facebook.com/adriangrant

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you please post it? I don't have FB anymore
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I did post it - it's all the text in 'quote shading' under my user name about 16 posts back - post 5665 :)
 
I havent followed this SHIT this long. Cause i'm tired after over 30 years, since 1987, about these lies. everytime just the same. lies, money, damaging, no proof, haters are happy. Today i have realized that Amazon is also showing this bullshit of lies?? Also Amazon is using him to make money. holly shit, how weird is this world? Does Amazon have to say something about it? i'm sure they have allready earned billions of dollars with michael jackson. now they need this two weirdo fools, with their lies? I'm shocked. Why isnt the estate doing something about this? Hey, i mean this is amazon. Amazon is everywhere.
 
MJJ2theMAX;4245663 said:
Just search “Adrian grant” on Facebook - that’s how I found it
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Themidwestcowboy;4245664 said:
Can you please post it? I don't have FB anymore
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I just posted it on my FB and thanked Adrian in the comments with a message too. These are the things that need to be out there.
 
Where are the MJJ productions people to debunk the claim from Jimmy's mom about her hotel suit far far away from MJ's during Bad Tour?
I know that Jolie Levine, mj assistant during that era, she collaborated with some 90s unauthorized biographers, so she prolly think he is guilty.. But where is Miko Brando? We need those key people to try and debunk this sh#tshow
 
mjchris said:
I havent followed this SHIT this long. Cause i'm tired after over 30 years, since 1987, about these lies. everytime just the same. lies, money, damaging, no proof, haters are happy. Today i have realized that Amazon is also showing this bullshit of lies?? Also Amazon is using him to make money. holly shit, how weird is this world? Does Amazon have to say something about it? i'm sure they have allready earned billions of dollars with michael jackson. now they need this two weirdo fools, with their lies? I'm shocked. Why isnt the estate doing something about this? Hey, i mean this is amazon. Amazon is everywhere.
Click to expand...

Really? So they are jumping on board now too, showing it on their Amazon Prime service?

Someone please just tell me, how is this possible? The biggest star ever really and his estate who you'd think is very powerful can't do something about this? How's this gonna end? I did my best to remain positive and I'll continue to do so, fear mongering and panic doesn't get you anywhere but.... sigh.
 
I love Taj for standing up for Michael, but he is not a very good speaker IMO. He seems overly emotional (which is understandable) and it's like he's trying to say more, but the words just won't come out. He's definitely had a good point in saying that, if family members don't speak, it's because they don't want to make a bigger deal out of it, but, at the same time, someone has to speak out and tell their (and our) point of view to the media.
By the way, I thought that Piers guy was open minded about the whole thing. He was actually trying to help with the questions he asked. That's my opinion.
 
Belgium will be careful to play MJ music from now on. They won't prohibit it but they will play less MJ music and each time they do play him they will refer to the allegations surrounding MJ.
It was in the newspaper.

That's probably even worse than not playing him at all.
 
I just got down on my knees praying to God to give me strength. As of this moment, I couldn’t eat, I barely got any sleep. I don’t understand why I let the haters get to me again like that.

That does it, since tomorrow is Ash Wednesday, I will try and give up one thing, and that is to let go of the madness and bring my life back on track. I will not let the media dictate what I think. I don’t care what people say, I don’t care what Hollyweird says, I don’t care what the media say, because of Michael Jackson, I am loved and I will fight even harder than ever!
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
@Terrell

I went to that tweet and saw some of the responses, sigh. I honestly just hate some people and their stupidity. Apparently they believe MJ was abused, but also has all the hallmarks of someone that knows how to manipulate the kids and their families. It's textbook stuff they say. Apparently the letter he wrote about abuse has been turned into something it really isn't now. I'm giving up on people.

And those are people (total facking numbskulls) replying to Corey.
Click to expand...
Corey spoke. enuf said and those haters just want something to say. if it was text book, MJ would have done this to everyone in the way Wade and james were describing things. NOT. Do not give up on people. MOST people know but haters are the loudest. They can not make something so no matter what they think. Also, this statement is now in CNN. Good.
 
Carmour260;4245682 said:
I just got down on my knees praying to God to give me strength. As of this moment, I couldn’t eat, I barely got any sleep. I don’t understand why I let the haters get to me again like that.

That does it, since tomorrow is Ash Wednesday, I will try and give up one thing, and that is to let go of the madness and bring my life back on track. I will not let the media dictate what I think. I don’t care what people say, I don’t care what Hollyweird says, I don’t care what the media say, because of Michael Jackson, I am loved and I will fight even harder than ever!
Click to expand...
Keep your faith in God. MJ is going to have the final Victory in this nonsense.
 
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