Continuation of discussion about what is disrespectful commentary and what isn't

[J5master]

Ok because posts have been deleted in the Joan thread and because I'm TRYING to be civil and not assume that this MJ community I love dearly just isn't right for me.., I want to attempt to continue what I believe is an important discussion that will only be repeated every time a MJ hater dies, the more it is swept under the rug. Admittedly perhaps the Joan thread wasn't the right place to have that discussion which is why I'm having it here.

I think there is clearly a discrepancy about what constitutes as disrespectful commentary. I simply do not get (and I'm sure I'm not alone) why one must say only 100% positive things about an MJ hater who has passed. Or alternatively why anything remotely not praising said hater is deemed disrespectful. I think if any sort of criticism is labeled disrespectful or even considered hatred - it's a pretty worrying problem considering we say all kinds of harsh things about mj's own family when they're still alive.

Maybe we should have a dedicated open discussion about this. Because I really don't think kicking people with opposing opinions out of threads is a good way to handle things when the thread itself - the topic starter - did not designate the the thread to be for Joan fans or not. So why are non Joan fans being chastised exactly?

Also why are people who are NOT Joan fans (who are not afraid to be blunt about this fact and why) automatically labeled as "spreading hatred"?

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

Thank you for starting this thread, J5! My opinion on the matter is truth has become the new "hate speech", when people need to realize that the TRUTH doesn't give a damn if we can handle it or not and will always prevail.

What would have been disrespectful is to post something like "Bye, BITCH", "Ding dong the witch is dead" or "hordes of plastic surgeons are now unemployed due to Ms. Rivers' death". All of those are comments I've seen posted online from CNN to NPR. Yahoo! comment threads are even more brutal with this matter.

As for this "Be like Mike" mantra, I am not Michael Jackson, nor am I expected to be. Yes, Mike has some very endearing and beautiful qualities, but he himself was no saint and wasn't that shy about telling people the TRUTH (though not as rough around the edges as he could have been, SHOULD HAVE BEEN).

I'm not a sugarcoater and I'm not fake. I'm not going to shed tears for someone as despicable as Joan Rivers, who made an entire career out of kicking people when they're down. And it's not solely about how she shitted on Mike. What she said about MANY people (especially the innocent people caught in the cross fire in the Gaza Strip and her sick comments about the Haiti earthquake victims a few years back) disgusts and appalled me for the simple fact that mocking death, mocking innocent people is foul any way you slice it. While there is an audience for such sick and twisted "humor", those that are not fans of it shouldn't be asked/expected to give honor to it when one of their representatives die.

Since when did death absolve anyone from how they lived their lives, anyway? We're all going to die someday! Death isn't a "get out of jail free card" for assholes. . . :lmao:

I extend a peace pipe in hopes that we can truly AGREE TO DISAGREE without the drama. . . :cheeky:

 

[GreenEyes]

I extend a peace pipe in hopes that we can truly AGREE TO DISAGREE without the drama. . . :cheeky:

Can I have a puff off that peace pipe? I feel like I need it.:blowup:

Edited to add - I think we could all use it right about now.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

Can I have a puff off that peace pipe? I feel like I need it.:blowup:

Edited to add - I think we could all use it right about now.

Be my guest, lol! I've got plenty to share. . .

 

[J5master]

Haha I agree with you sheila. Though I think I'll bypass the pipe and have one of these:

A peace dranky drank.

But really I'd like to signal boost this to staff as well since the final word about whether we are truly able to agree to disagree will come from them. This doesn't happen by completely kicking those with disagreeing opinions to the curb, as it were.

 

[Spyce]

Haha I agree with you sheila. Though I think I'll bypass the pipe and have one of these:

A peace dranky drank.

But really I'd like to signal boost this to staff as well since the final word about whether we are truly able to agree to disagree will come from them. This doesn't happen by completely kicking those with disagreeing opinions to the curb, as it were.

Don't worry... it is seen.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

Haha I agree with you sheila. Though I think I'll bypass the pipe and have one of these:

A peace dranky drank.


But really I'd like to signal boost this to staff as well since the final word about whether we are truly able to agree to disagree will come from them. This doesn't happen by completely kicking those with disagreeing opinions to the curb, as it were.

:agree: I can't handle the vine (wine makes me sick), so have at it for me (while I'll toke for you)! :hysterical:

 

[karom]

Ok because posts have been deleted in the Joan thread and because I'm TRYING to be civil and not assume that this MJ community I love dearly just isn't right for me.., I want to attempt to continue what I believe is an important discussion that will only be repeated every time a MJ hater dies, the more it is swept under the rug. Admittedly perhaps the Joan thread wasn't the right place to have that discussion which is why I'm having it here.

I think there is clearly a discrepancy about what constitutes as disrespectful commentary. I simply do not get (and I'm sure I'm not alone) why one must say only 100% positive things about an MJ hater who has passed. Or alternatively why anything remotely not praising said hater is deemed disrespectful. I think if any sort of criticism is labeled disrespectful or even considered hatred - it's a pretty worrying problem considering we say all kinds of harsh things about mj's own family when they're still alive.

Maybe we should have a dedicated open discussion about this. Because I really don't think kicking people with opposing opinions out of threads is a good way to handle things when the thread itself - the topic starter - did not designate the the thread to be for Joan fans or not. So why are non Joan fans being chastised exactly?

Also why are people who are NOT Joan fans (who are not afraid to be blunt about this fact and why) automatically labeled as "spreading hatred"?

Because whoever that woman was and whatever she did, she has just passed away. Some people were fans and right now, are mourning her loss. So out of respect for those people , we do not want to allow that kind of talk about her, least of all in that thread. Just like you were hurt by the fact that, shortly after Michael's passing, she said such things about him, some people might feel the same way about her.

This isn't a matter of opinion. That was simply not a thread to state your opinion about her. And now my question for you is, if you disliked her so much, why is it so incredibly difficult to just stay out of that thread? No one is asking you to show the tiniest shred of sympathy for her, all we're asking is, if you have no sympathy, then simply ignore that thread.

Finally, and I think I speak for the entire Staff team, no one wants to make you like Michael. I think this was greatly misunderstood. What we meant to say is that, this community is here to preserve Michael's legacy. And in the spirit of that, we don't want to start digging up all the dirties about a person right after they died. No one cared much about Joan Rivers before she died. I haven't seen one post or one thread about her, neither good nor bad. No one felt the need to express what a terrible person she was or how much they didn't like her. Well, let me tell you that 2 days after she died is not the right time to start. It is just not the kind of community we want.

I hope everything is clear now and this can stop.

 

[Soundmind]

It is super disrespectful to MJ's fans ( at least the majority) to pay any kind of tribute to that woman in any thread at a fan website.

If there are some who want to mourn her, they have enough platform outside this forum to do so.

With William Robbins, the mods' excuse was that he apologized ( not really) after MJ's death, what the excuse now in the case of this devilish woman?


Wade Robinson was a very good dancer and entertainer. will the day come when we are going to open a thread dedicated to celebrating his work here ? By your logic, why not ,yes, out of respect to counted fans who still love him.

 

[Bubs]

Hopefully, when the day arrives Demon Dimond and few others kicks the bucket, we are allowed to celebrate without being told to be Mike like, and to be respectful for their loyal fans


I wouldn't call Joan MJ hater, I would call her just mean, plan ol' nasty person who made living of making fun of others and putting down people. When I think of peoples feelings when Joan insulted them, I cannot find any comedy of it and it is not funny at all. Maybe some people should try to think how those insulted people might feel.

Food for thought, I find it interesting that Joan went for throat operation.
I would call that some sort of sign or divine intervention that someone/something thought Joan has said enough and took her away. No more hurting people with her poison tongue.

 

[Soundmind]

How many suicides were triggered by bullying?

To think that some find it funny to celebrate the life of a woman who dedicated her whole life to dehumanize and insult others is mind boggling.

" It was just a joke, get over it damn you" Tell that to Prince, Paris and Blanket.

 

[AtlasAir]

I feel like a lot of you dismiss her as the comedian who made MJ jokes.
She's more than an "insult comedian".

Her entire career wasn't just commenting on celebrities.
I would encourage you to if nothing else find out about her early career and how many doors she opened for female comics in general.

Same with Robin Williams. It was strange to have his life and career all boiled down to some MJ jokes he made. I know this is an MJ forum, but yeah. I dunno.

 

[AtlasAir]

Food for thought, I find it interesting that Joan went for throat operation.
I would call that some sort of sign or divine intervention that someone/something thought Joan has said enough and took her away. No more hurting people with her poison tongue.

Or that she was just getting too old to be put under for a routine operation.

 

[gerryevans]

I feel like a lot of you dismiss her as the comedian who made MJ jokes.
She's more than an "insult comedian".

Her entire career wasn't just commenting on celebrities.
I would encourage you to if nothing else find out about her early career and how many doors she opened for female comics in general.

Same with Robin Williams. It was strange to have his life and career all boiled down to some MJ jokes he made. I know this is an MJ forum, but yeah. I dunno.

It's not unusual for a few things to affect the whole. I used to love love Quincy Jones. His comments after MJ's death have forever changed the way I view him. I still respect his immense talent and always will, but I don't respect the man so much anymore.

ETA: I mentioned a MJ related circumstance, but that's true in life in general. You can know someone for years on a personal level, and they can do something that can completely change your relationship.

 

[Mechi]

Well honestly when someone I disliked in life passed and when I notice that I maybe think by myself "Ok I'll not miss her/him." and that's it. I really feel no such need to talk about that person somehow... I mean they just left this life so...

I don't have to tell that anybody, especially not the ppl who liked the person cuz those are having a hard time then and why making it even harder?! Honestly it's not the best time to make such ppl understand anything.

In my view it tells really more about the negativity ppl carry with them if they have to talk negative about someone dead.
But then again I don't think it's always meant disrespectful... sometimes these ppl just carry something with them they need to vent... then again to me it seems like too late somehow.

To me it's just not important... ppl can and will behave however they'll simply will be known for that... if someone behaves a way I dislike I tell them... and then everybody can walk their way... yeah sometimes it's annoying when ppl seem obsessed with telling the same again and again and again and it seems to derail threads in all sub forums or the very same ppl just can't leave it with agreeing to disagree... but then again we have a report button and we can block ppl... this world and thankfully even this forum is big enough for all of us I think.

 

[J5master]

EDIT: Nevermind, i got super rambly and Gerry said all I really wanted to say in an much less rambly manner in the post below. LOL One additional thing I would like to add is:

I still think its unfair that I have to justify my reasoning for just commenting the way I feel on a topic (which is being brought on by staff asking WHY we 'feel the need' to say negative things about said topic, as if just because the topic was never brought up previously I should feel bad about saying what I feel about it when it IS brought up?). Its literally the same as if there was someone who opened a "Prince came out with a new album" thread (just stating a fact, not saying that the thread was for Prince fans or not) - someone comes in and says something unfavorable about Prince because that is their honest opinion....and then the moderation comes in, deleting threads, chastising people, saying "THIS IS ONLY FOR PRINCE FANS" - when nothing clearly said this fact. But staff just kinda made it so, made it a "rule" that all threads stating news about a new Prince album is ONLY for fans of Prince, and then chastised others for not knowing that this was ordained so? Then going off and saying "Well if you don't like the album, why are you so hell bent on commenting on it? Why are you spreading negativity and hatred?" I mean...it just doesn't make sense.

Not to mention the fact that once again negative opinions are automatically being labeled as "not having sympathy" and "disrespectful" and "hatred." Which again is not necessarily true. Since when is expressing criticism about a person life's a sign of not offering compassion about a person's death and condolences to the family and friends and fans. You can do both!

Also NO one was "digging up dirty laundry" about Joan. HER dirty laundry was her JOB - she insulted people for a living, whether you think its funny or not is irrelevant. But people have the right to comment on how they feel about what she represented without having to justify themselves. People were simply recalling the things she did - both positive AND negative. No one was going out to find all the nasty things she did in some kind of malicious witch hunt, which is what you're making it seem. Just like if Martin Bashir died, no one on this board would have to go out and "dig up dirt" on the guy because what he DID is what he did for a living.

 

[gerryevans]

Well honestly when someone I disliked in life passed and when I notice that I maybe think by myself "Ok I'll not miss her/him." and that's it. I really feel no such need to talk about that person somehow... I mean they just left this life so...
I don't have to tell that anybody, especially not the ppl who liked the person cuz those are having a hard time then and why making it even harder?! Honestly it's not the best time to make such ppl understand anything.

Well, let’s further put this in context. I don’t think any poster here would go to Joan Rivers wake and proceed to tell the mourners that they disliked her humor or her. But I can envision a group of them being gathered, let’s say in a restaurant, and happening on a discussion about Rivers, and voicing their likes and dislikes about her and why. Joan Rivers was a public figure. Public figures are discussed when they die. If they were never ever discussed before, they’re discussed at that time because it is the end of life, and that’s when any life is reflected upon.

Because whoever that woman was and whatever she did, she has just passed away. Some people were fans and right now, are mourning her loss. So out of respect for those people , we do not want to allow that kind of talk about her, least of all in that thread. Just like you were hurt by the fact that, shortly after Michael's passing, she said such things about him, some people might feel the same way about her.

This isn't a matter of opinion. That was simply not a thread to state your opinion about her. And now my question for you is, if you disliked her so much, why is it so incredibly difficult to just stay out of that thread? No one is asking you to show the tiniest shred of sympathy for her, all we're asking is, if you have no sympathy, then simply ignore that thread.

The problem was it was NOT clear it was only for mourners. I happened upon it, thinking it was a general discussion thread, and started to make a general comment that I have empathy for anyone who loses a loved one. But I admittedly would have added that I wish JR had shown others that same kind of empathy. I don’t think there would have been anything inappropriate about such a comment about JR in a thread entitled, “Joan Rivers Passes Away...” It and the first post seemed to invite discussion of her to me.

Instead, I did not post anything because I read a poster being called a "damn fool" for expressing a similar opinion as mine and bringing MJ up in the thread. Hostility breeds hostility and that “damn fool” comment was what derailed and nosedived the thread into blatant hostility by ALL factions.

Yet, I understand the original poster being angry because it was the wake, not the restaurant, to them.

Perhaps in the future, intent can be mentioned in the title and/or first post. That is, “Joan Rivers Passes Away...a mourners thread. This thread is for those who wish to express their condolences on her passing. Please start a new thread to discuss her further." Then perhaps this second thread would have immediately been started where MJ fans could have more fully discussed her and a lot of hostility could have been avoided, because the TONE of all factions got disrespectful to the MJJ Community in my opinion.

 

[Mechi]

Well, let’s further put this in context. I don’t think any poster here would go to Joan Rivers wake and proceed to tell the mourners that they disliked her humor or her. But I can envision a group of them being gathered, let’s say in a restaurant, and happening on a discussion about Rivers, and voicing their likes and dislikes about her and why. Joan Rivers was a public figure. Public figures are discussed when they die. If they were never ever discussed before, they’re discussed at that time because it is the end of life, and that’s when any life is reflected upon.

Yeah that's exactly it, right it happens and not only in restaurants and I tried to say that to me it seems kind of too late?!
I mean the person is gone.

I feel then it's better to be quiet... out of respect for the loss some ppl suffer whatever their reasons were to like that person I disliked.
I try to treat ppl the way I wanna be treated by others... and believe me right after Michaels death I wasn't in the mood to discuss him or why I love him or anything about him. And I was happy ppl around me just accepted that and didn't question it in any way.

I mean, ok that's how I feel everybody is of cuz free to feel different... but well when someone's dead on the floor I don't need to kick the corpse somehow... sorry I'm not an english native and I hope this doesn't come out too hard please? I mean the kick would be senseless anyways?!

 

[J5master]

^^^

But is reviewing the things that they did in life really kicking them when they're down though? Especially when the things that they did were put out there on purpose for people to be 'entertained' ?

If people can say they loved her form of entertainment, people should also say they did not and why without being accused of disrespecting the dead. it was her art, her way of representing herself. It wasn't like people were cruelly bashing her about a horrible time her life or some other horrible thing.

Its like me going on a ...Prince forum (I use prince a lot, sue me lol)...and seeing people be like "I feel sorry about MJ's death but I really didn't like his music or how he danced, because ....[insert crazy reason here lol]" I may disagree but I can't really say that's being disrespectful to MJ. That's their opinion.

And it is especially heightened in the case of Joan Rivers as her whole act was to purposely piss people off for entertainment purposes [or insulting in the name of comedy or however you want to define it]. So think in a thread that seems to be "restuarant" type discussion and not "a wake" type discussion, then people should be able to express their opinions about her work - whether its based on what was said about MJ or not, without being reprimanded.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

Well, let’s further put this in context. I don’t think any poster here would go to Joan Rivers wake and proceed to tell the mourners that they disliked her humor or her. But I can envision a group of them being gathered, let’s say in a restaurant, and happening on a discussion about Rivers, and voicing their likes and dislikes about her and why. Joan Rivers was a public figure. Public figures are discussed when they die. If they were never ever discussed before, they’re discussed at that time because it is the end of life, and that’s when any life is reflected upon.

Instead, I did not post anything because I read a poster being called a "damn fool" for expressing a similar opinion as mine and bringing MJ up in the thread. Hostility breeds hostility and that “damn fool” comment was what derailed and nosedived the thread into blatant hostility by ALL factions.

:agree: Yes, great points! I doubt anyone here would go all Westboro Baptist Church on Joan, so cutting the conversation to the quick wasn't necessary. I also saw the "damn fool" and "stop derailing this thread with that nonsense" insults as the match the ignited the fire. The so-called nonsense in question was actual quotes and VIDEO of Joan spewing her venom (Gaza Strip and Mike).

What appalled me was the idea that (on a website dedicated to MICHAEL JACKSON) Mike would be considered "derailing a thread" or "nonsense". Bringing up Michael Jackson on a site supposedly FOR Michael Jackson shouldn't be "off topic" ANYWHERE ON HERE. Can I get a :wtf: ?!! Adding further insult to injury was the fact that Mike is expected to go to the back of the bus on a site bearing his NAME AND LIKENESS in favor of honoring a public figure that mocked him and his death just because said person has died (in a thread that wasn't marked as a tribute)!

 

[CaptainEoLove85]

I think people should be allowed to say what they want as long as it doesn't get too nasty (I never saw anything out of line in the Joan Rivers thread or the Robin Williams thread for that matter), but I'll always assume and say this is just good advice, to quote Thumper: "If you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all."

A lot of people didn't like Joan Rivers, including myself, but I don't really see the point of say opening a thread discussing everything wrong she did because we all already know that anyway. I just see no reason to bring up I guess. I'm not sure what the purpose of it would be.

 

[Bubs]

I mean, ok that's how I feel everybody is of cuz free to feel different... but well when someone's dead on the floor I don't need to kick the corpse somehow... sorry I'm not an english native and I hope this doesn't come out too hard please? I mean the kick would be senseless anyways?!

Its interesting how people operates. Michael gets and has been "kicked" by many people since his passing, including the very same person who just passed.
Maybe you think that it is useless to "kick" dead person in this occasion, but I'm 100% certain that there has been 1 or 2 dead person that you have talked badly since their passing, Hitler, Bin Laden etc?
As for trying treat people the way you want to be treated yourself. It is all fine and dandy if it applies all people, not just this Joan occasion. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I think people should be allowed to say what they want as long as it doesn't get too nasty (I never saw anything out of line in the Joan Rivers thread or the Robin Williams thread for that matter), but I'll always assume and say this is just good advice, to quote Thumper: "If you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all."

I take it that you mean that if you cannot say anything nice... applies in every thread and every subject.
I don't know about that, I think threads would be very quiet if that bolded part is applied
I cannot imagine that when we are talking about Wade R case and not to throw some nasty words in the mix, or next time when CM comes up with some more crap, we are just silent because we have nothing nice to say about him.

Note, I don't think this thread was created to allow people to bash Joan, but to people talk where goes the line what can be talked and why.

 

[Mechi]

Historical persons will always be discussed. I am no way saying Joan Rivers can't ever be discussed again if someone feels she deserves that importance. But well yeah to me it's a tiny bit over the top to compare Joan Rivers to persons like Hitler and BinLaden...

Anyways if anyone feels it makes them happy to give that woman that importance they can talk as much as they want after a certain time of respect... it's about giving others time to mourn.

Yes to me it says a lot about someone talking negative about a person who JUST passed.
To me yes the question is for what and why ppl feel the need to do that... and yeah I admitt you're right that's interesting to me... but then again it might hurt others... so my interest isn't what should count the most in this.

Paying back whatever doesn't work to me... maybe I'm too old but revenge to me often looks more like making a mental imbalance even more stable in someone who's going for it because it doesn't make the pain they have suffered before and still feel any better, it's a way of better not losing the pain not ever letting it go to go for revenge... often cuz ppl fear it's all what's left... well this analysis goes to far but can be read at Fromm or Wazlawick or even Freud... as I've watched life around me yet and experienced it, it at least simply doesn't make me happy.

Back on topic... I am all for freedom of speech... however I feel everybody hopefully has someone who loves them... and right after someone passed to me is not the right time to point out what was might negative or not about them in my view... out of respect and not wanting to might hurt ppl who mourn.

Others can talk negative as much as they want and they probably will about others... to me it's ok if that is what makes them 'happy'... however right after someone passed that is not the right time and really often it seems to me not the right thing to make anyone happy.

And no to me it's not important if it applies to all ppl before I join or start a game... if it's not walking a way with a child not able to make huge steps or walking with someone old who has to slow down walking or maybe someone handicapped... I usually do not wait for others, it's certainly nice if someone walks with me or even more, but it's not needed and not a must... others do not have to see life the same... it's my way, my life I am judged for and will be judged for.

I am surely not for going into circles to hammer my views into others... I say my part and that's it... but yeah how I say it and when I say it... is telling about me... so this is...

... the end of all my talk here!

 

[J5master]

Once again, people are mixing "saying what this person did in their lives and how they feel about what they did" with being disrespectful, attacking, hounding and bashing and all kinds of Jack The Ripper type things. Especially when it comes to a person who purposely started controversy with her art and represented herself in such away as to purposefully piss people off...HOW is it a bad reflection on anyone who expresses something negative about her?

Also once again people are mixing "saying what this person did in their lives and how they feel about what they did" as some incessant need to be NEGATIVE, if what they're saying just happens to be negative.

We are not the "Lets Run Around and Say Negative Things about People who Just Died" police. But IF we have something honest to say that happens to BE negative, we would like to be able to express this if we feel like it. Sometimes DARING to say negative things CAN have its benefits, especially if it opens the door about LARGER issues that a person has perpetuated in our society, which is what I said earlier. So to answer the statement "Yes to me it says a lot about someone talking negative about a person who JUST passed" - I think that it says a lot about someone who absolutely cannot see the difference between ATTACKING the person and just commenting honestly on a HUGE aspect of a person's life (their career) in the wake of a person's death even if it's not high praise.

But once again, are we really a community where we have to JUSTIFY speaking our minds? Thats what I keep seeing here. I see a lot of a shaming going around against those who want to express their opinion ("why do you feel the need to say negative things?" "why can't you just be respectful?" "why the hatred?") . And once again, there is NO SHAMING happening for people who talk crap about MJ's family on this board. And this isn't to say I'm a SUPPORTER of the family's antics, nor do I want to censor those who do speak negatively about the family, but I think there needs to be a fair balance here. You can't wag your finger at someone talking negative regarding an MJ hater that just died on an MJ board, and let people freely bash a dead man's family on a board that is dedicated to said dead man. The same dead man who's hater's we're trying to protect AFTER death.

How come this "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all" doesn't apply everywhere on this board?

Because to me, what you say while a person is ALIVE means more than what you say after they're dead. So if you talk crap about someone (which people have) while they're alive and then suddenly BAN saying anything negative about them when they're dead...I mean, what does that do exactly? lol (As an MJ fan, it really didn't make me feel any better as a mourner that people who CONSTANTLY talked crap about MJ while he was alive and listening decided to 'pay their respects' by not saying mean things after he died...for about a month or two. I mean what exactly does that do really?)

....and you can't use the excuse that no one was talking about Joan before she died. If instead of dying, Joan Rivers did a set that started ranting about MJ and how guilty he was of child molestation, best believe there would be at least a 5 page long thread in "Trials & Tribulations" discussing it and fans throwing all kinds of insults at Joan.

Just because that person dies - it does not erase the REASONS you talked crap about them in the first place. And if talking crap about a MJ hater is permitted while they're alive, why is no one saying "hey lets have respect for all of those who are actually FANS of this MJ hater" - because guess what? Those are gonna be the mourners we'll be giving respect for on this board when said hater dies by holding our tongue. So why aren't we doing the same thing in ALL situations?

I want to stress again, this is not fighting for the right to be negative, like people keep saying for some reason. This is fighting for the right to speak our minds even if it happens to BE negative.

 

[gerryevans]

^^^What a great post. And let's not forget this is a DISCUSSION board. If a thread is posted about someone, it invites discussion of that someone.

The value of discussion is being proven right now. I would now not post in a thread where the sole purpose is for those who want to commiserate. I totally respect wanting to immerse one's self with fellow mourners. That is why I found this board in 2009. I wanted to be around people who felt MJ's loss as I did and I could commiserate endlessly. I'd say how much I was going to miss his wild giggle, and a dozen people would respond they would too, and we'd all end up giggling. That's the value of a "community." Sharing grief and sharing joy.

So yes, have a commiseration thread. We now know it should be clearly identified as such.

Because no way would a controversial public figure like Joan Rivers be accorded only a RIP in a general discussion topic thread, even if she had not skewer MJ. OPEN discussion about her life upon her death is a natural occurrence. It should always be kept civil and respectful of the MJJ Community standards, and the same should apply for mourners.

 

[karom]

On behalf of all MJJC staff, we would like to apologize for the way things were handled in the Joan Rivers thread. The situation was not handled by staff as well as it could have been. This is not to say we don't stand behind the actions we took, however upon reflection of the situation we just feel it could have been handled differently, and better. In our hurry to avoid an unpleasant situation, we have inadvertently created one. We can assure you that we, as staff, are taking preventative measures to make sure this doesn't happen again in the future.

We would also like to let you all know that it was never our intention to force anybody to think in a certain way, or to feel a certain way and we are most definitely not trying to silence you. We encourage you all to voice your opinions, all we ask is that you do so respectfully and with consideration for your fellow members.

Once again, we apologize for the way we handled it and for the unpleasant situation that was created.

Thank you for your attention,
MJJC Staff team

 

[gerryevans]

^^^^
Karom, Spyce, Gaz, etc. etc... I love this place, and as much as I love open discussion, there's no discussion needed on that point for me.

Thank you.

 

[J5master]

Thank you so much to staff - that was all I really asked for

And yes I agree that it goes both ways- people expressing said opinions should do so respectfully.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

What appalled me was the idea that (on a website dedicated to MICHAEL JACKSON) Mike would be considered "derailing a thread" or "nonsense". Bringing up Michael Jackson on a site supposedly FOR Michael Jackson shouldn't be "off topic" ANYWHERE ON HERE. Adding further insult to injury was the fact that Mike is expected to go to the back of the bus on a site bearing his NAME AND LIKENESS in favor of honoring a public figure that mocked him and his death just because said person has died (in a thread that wasn't marked as a tribute)!

I appreciate the apology from staff, but my main concern is what I bolded. Michael Jackson should be honored ABOVE ALL OTHERS on a site bearing his name/likeness, regardless if they're dead or alive, friend or foe. I saw what happened in that Joan thread as a slap in the face to him and his memory and how much he means to many of us here (and I was pissed off about it, really). Joan Rivers, etc. has a website if the need to honor her was so crucial. Those visiting various artists' sites shouldn't expect the headliner to step aside at their own show for someone else.

 

[J5master]

I think the above was more related to the comment (I forgot who said it) that it was nonsense to bring up MJ in a thread about Joan? And there was a general sense from some MEMBERS that if we bring up MJ, then we're automatically basing someone's existence on what they said about MJ - which is also really unfair because thats not necessarily true considering its an MJ board and everything probably will come back around to MJ in some way. But unfortunately that is the opinion of some members, and they have the right to express that as well. >< lol

Not sure if that was perpetuated by staff though.