Cascios:: Studio/notes/and programs

[Topflux]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

?????
With a good condenser microphone (neumann, AKG, schoeps etc), a good mic preamp (neve, massenburg etc), a good compressor limiter (Urei, teletronics etc) and a good recorder (all of which would total no more than $30K) it would be entirely practical to record absolutely world class vocals in that environment.

I agree. And Shure has also great mics. And some great compact mixers include world-class pre-amps. Like Samson has great mixers with dsp and even hard disk mode with 300 dollars or probably even less..

 

[raindrop]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Michael's 2000 Watts low sounding vocal has nothing to do with studio acoustics. It was autotuned to reduce the pitch by half octave or so. Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFM4mIDuVjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9dB5Ff1sdc&feature=related

This instead is Michael with an instrument to pitch down his voice hidden in the sleeve. True story! (/sarcasm... where are the emoticons here?)

The version you posted is not MJ real voice on 2000watts, it's his voice pitched up to reach his usual level. Of course it sound like the usual him, this does not mean MJ couldn't make his voice lower than usual.

would the home demos (billie jean, girl is mine etc.) be done in a better sudio than the Cascios?

First, is possible that MJ home studio was better than the Cascio one. Second, they have not been altered and processed. Third, it's not clear at which state of the production they were. Still demos, but at which point? And at which point were the Cascio traks before the editing? We don't know.

 

[cmstrike]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Get out, you have nothing insightful to offer, why even respond in this thread if you've already made up your mind? We don't agree with your "shit", accept it.

Anywho, I find it quite hysterical how some of you can sit here and disprove what was said about the sound breakers and state of the studio, without having any studio experience. I can tell by the way some of you immediately write things off, that you really have no clue how things work. In a surrounding like that basement, in the condition it was in, almost every outside noise would've been picked up during the recording, you'd be able to hear the Cascio's talking to him, instructing him on matching his vocals with the beat, etc. If they were indeed in there with him. Every vocal hiccup, every foot tap, it would've been picked up; And the quality is low when you record songs with just a mic set up and not an actual booth, in most cases your voice can be drowned out in favor of the volume of this instruments and vice versa, recording is not as simple as some of you seem to think it is. If these sounds were picked up, and if the quality was bad (as they were), then it's perfectly plausible that work was done on his voice.

I'd like to add that it depends on what kind of mic they were tracking his vocals with. If they were using a condenser, then yeah, what you said is correct. If they were using a dynamic, like a Shure SM7 (that is famous for being used a lot for the Thriller album, etc.), then it's a very directional microphone and won't pick up much background noise or room ambience at all. It's not uncommon at all for vocalists to do vocal tracks right in the control room with an SM7. James Hetfield for example does this a lot.

I really think they were just doing pre-production demos there anyway. Why wouldn't Michael want to do the real vocals tracks in a better environment? He had all the resources in the world. I just think the basement recording were two friends working on demos, which unfortunately could not be completed in the way it had been intended.

 

[Topflux]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

It was not half an octave thou. More like half-step or whole. I don't remember. You don't have to lower your voice very much to make the change noticable..

 

[Ohood]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Thank you!!! I've been saying this from day 1.

Ignorant, arrogant fans who in the back of their minds believe they KNEW MICHAEL believe the following.

1. Cascio's, who were MJ's friends for years, hired another singer to sing for Michael after he died in order to make a quick buck.

2. This mystery singer pulled off singing three songs very well in MJ style but and did so well enough to fool Teddy Riley, Sony, etc.

3. Or,....Riley is in on the plot.

4. And/or, Sony is in on the plot but just had to have these three fake songs and are selling them anyway.

5. The fake singer is in hiding either threatened with death or living the high life because basically he would own Sony. One word of the truth from him would kill Sony.


Again, all of this is insane. Get over yourself, people.

Those who think the songs are fake = fake fans.

thanx alot....all those who scream fake did not even listen to the songs, they repeat what they heard you know "herd mentality" !

 

[Emjay]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Strange, there has never been this amount of debate (not one person ever doubted) about Michael Jackson's vocals since...well...when we first heard Jason Malachi sing Mamacita - lol

Can a different studio really make people doubt his voice so much - we've heard him sing near a waterfall (peter pan), on the street (smile on martin bashir doc), and many other random bits and pieces - why is it just this studio that is making people doubt?

 

[Go Flying]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

I'd like to add that it depends on what kind of mic they were tracking his vocals with. If they were using a condenser, then yeah, what you said is correct. If they were using a dynamic, like a Shure SM7 (that is famous for being used a lot for the Thriller album, etc.), then it's a very directional microphone and won't pick up much background noise or room ambience at all. It's not uncommon at all for vocalists to do vocal tracks right in the control room with an SM7. James Hetfield for example does this a lot. QUOTE]

yes, but it's not because the microphone is unidirectional that this is possible, it's a clever engineering technique that makes it work & it works just as well or better with an omni mic

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Thats all well and good but it doesnt explain the fake vibrato in his voice. It simple doesnt sound like MJ. KYHU Im not so sure but deffo not BN or Monster.

 

[cmstrike]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

I'd like to add that it depends on what kind of mic they were tracking his vocals with. If they were using a condenser, then yeah, what you said is correct. If they were using a dynamic, like a Shure SM7 (that is famous for being used a lot for the Thriller album, etc.), then it's a very directional microphone and won't pick up much background noise or room ambience at all. It's not uncommon at all for vocalists to do vocal tracks right in the control room with an SM7. James Hetfield for example does this a lot. QUOTE]

yes, but it's not because the microphone is unidirectional that this is possible, it's a clever engineering technique that makes it work & it works just as well or better with an omni mic

If you're talking about phase inverting techniques, I know exactly what you mean.

I'm just saying that the artifacts (including the fake sounding vibrato) are more than likely a result of the heavy processing that needed to be done in order to get the demo vocals up to par in order for release. Because they were just supposed to be demo tracks.

 

[Tipareth]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

after looking at the studio that the Cascios have on Oprah I can tell you I could see why there would have to be alot of work and processing like Riley was saying.. It definatly seems like michael would only record demos there.. the recording booth did not have many sound breakers at all.. that is NEEDED in a recording booth to block outside noises and for the microphone to get the clearest sound possible of the vocals..


8:29 the recording booth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArOfcUZSDIU


the black on the wall is the sound breakers.. now look at the empty wall, thats tarrable for a recording.. and see the windows?? the vibrations of the noise would be picked up, the curtains moving could be picked up.. you NEVER have recordings near windows... now especially a person like Michael Jackson.. PLUS Michael was known for how lowed he had the music in the studio, so those windows must have been rattling the whole time.. (the glass you see in studios are not windows they are plated glass in the wall which do not vibate, and are there to see the person in the studio) the soundbreakers especially thow OMG what a terrible place to record.. unless demo!! Oh and and take notice to the sound breakers on the ceiling IN the recording section of the studio, thats a large hint that recording could have been done in the same exact room which could create so many other noices that i don't have to mention..

the audio would have to be messed up in there studio.. they would HAVE to work on it

All the places that MJ wud generally record (for released material) had great sound booths unlike this.. The Hit Factory, The Studio at the Palms, the studio in Ireland.. The voice would have came out pretty muffly (not picking up sertain tones) and background sounds would have been in the recording..


OMG!! I just went back to the video, am I seeing carpet on the floor?????? that is a NEVER in studios it drownds and captures sound..

basically my point is a good vocal recording cannot come out of that studio without alot of work..

Oh, good explanation! :agree:

Just what I've thought! You've explained it so well.

Now add to this autotune/melodyne + voice of another ( James Porte ) to fill up some background vocals/gaps in words maybe, and it's pretty clear what happened.

So....:clapping:

 

[raindrop]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Strange, there has never been this amount of debate (not one person ever doubted) about Michael Jackson's vocals since...well...when we first heard Jason Malachi sing Mamacita - lol

Can a different studio really make people doubt his voice so much - we've heard him sing near a waterfall (peter pan), on the street (smile on martin bashir doc), and many other random bits and pieces - why is it just this studio that is making people doubt?

It's not just the studio IMO. It's a not perfect studio with a not perfect MJ that lead to a not perfect sketch that lead to a not perfect audio for a song that must be worked on that lead to a not perfect post-production (actually IMO horrble, I really hate all that screams and wohoo, thay make no sense to me).

I can't hear Michael either in the tracks: his voice does not talk to me like usual. But the tracks ARE overproduced, you can hear that, and asking a fake to come and sing some songs to pretend it's MJ is far more complicated, a lot of people have to lie including the Cascios, and after 25 years of friendship with Mike I give them a little credit, if not as producers, as friends.

Thats all well and good but it doesnt explain the fake vibrato in his voice. It simple doesnt sound like MJ. KYHU Im not so sure but deffo not BN or Monster.

The fake vibrato IMO is fake and it has been added for reasons unknown. But a lot of the production work that has been made is just wrong. Just the idea of taking random demos and transforming them in a song is wrong.

 

[This Is It]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

The opening into to TWYLM was recorded on a voicemail message and yet it still sounds like Michael Jackaon.

This.

 

[Tipareth]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

If you're talking about phase inverting techniques, I know exactly what you mean.

I'm just saying that the artifacts (including the fake sounding vibrato) are more than likely a result of the heavy processing that needed to be done in order to get the demo vocals up to par in order for release. Because they were just supposed to be demo tracks.

I agree about that vibrato. It sounds repetitive and bit metallic, therefor was not so hard for me to depict that in fact is an after effect put on the voice. It's not natural vibrato.

 

[Go Flying]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

If you're talking about phase inverting techniques, I know exactly what you mean.

I'm just saying that the artifacts (including the fake sounding vibrato) are more than likely a result of the heavy processing that needed to be done in order to get the demo vocals up to par in order for release. Because they were just supposed to be demo tracks.

yes, welcome to the world of ersatz music where nothing is real anymore - what next, the 'autoemote' plugin?

Shit like this is why I stopped making records for a living a long time ago and why I'd always prefer to listen to a crappy recording of a live performance, than an overproduced, over engineered recording of what some idiot in his or her sublime arrogance thinks will sell the most copies. Garbage in = garbage out, always has and always will.

 

[Sophielo]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

All this name calling and bickering stops now. No one has concrete proof so people need to stop acting like their opinion is the right one and that everyone else's is wrong.

 

[smooth_criminal05]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

I've been trying to say this all along. The environment makes a huge difference! People can't wrap their heads around the fact that MJ has never recorded in a basement studio on any of his other songs! This is truly something totally different.

 

[Emjay]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

It's not just the studio IMO. It's a not perfect studio with a not perfect MJ that lead to a not perfect sketch that lead to a not perfect audio for a song that must be worked on that lead to a not perfect post-production (actually IMO horrble, I really hate all that screams and wohoo, thay make no sense to me).

I can't hear Michael either in the tracks: his voice does not talk to me like usual. But the tracks ARE overproduced, you can hear that, and asking a fake to come and sing some songs to pretend it's MJ is far more complicated, a lot of people have to lie including the Cascios, and after 25 years of friendship with Mike I give them a little credit, if not as producers, as friends.



The fake vibrato IMO is fake and it has been added for reasons unknown. But a lot of the production work that has been made is just wrong. Just the idea of taking random demos and transforming them in a song is wrong.

Yeah, as soon as my cousin heard the songs (she's done music at uni and now teaches it) she said it sounded very auto tuned and changed. Especially that vibrato - never has his voice done that and I'm always listening out now!

 

[KOPV]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

I'd have to say this is the first thread with actual debates lol!! The others kinda were more so fights.. Let's keep this thread on that level!! One of my main points I try to get across is different recordings wil sound different.. Voicemal voice will sound different that studio voice.. And so on! If you are mAking a single song with different pie es of vocal from diff equiptment-it takes alot to match up all the tones correctly and rake out the different air noises that wud be in the recording like the talking intro to twylm..

 

[Emjay]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

I've been trying to say this all along. The environment makes a huge difference! People can't wrap their heads around the fact that MJ has never recorded in a basement studio on any of his other songs! This is truly something totally different.

But I've heard my cousin sing on CD's recorded in her house, and in a small studio, and on stage but I've never got mixed up with her vocals (yet).

Sorry, I'm no expert just trying to understand it from my own world examples - hope you know what I mean.

 

[Go Flying]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

I've been trying to say this all along. The environment makes a huge difference! People can't wrap their heads around the fact that MJ has never recorded in a basement studio on any of his other songs! This is truly something totally different.

orly?

The ewnvironment has almost nothing to do with it. Why would you talk like this about something you know next to nothing about.

Are you so desperate to push your employers' agenda?

 

[cmstrike]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

yes, welcome to the world of ersatz music where nothing is real anymore - what next, the 'autoemote' plugin?

Shit like this is why I stopped making records for a living a long time ago and why I'd always prefer to listen to a crappy recording of a live performance, than an overproduced, over engineered recording of what some idiot in his or her sublime arrogance thinks will sell the most copies. Garbage in = garbage out, always has and always will.

I'm with you on that. There's no way I'd even think about approaching the music business at this point. I write and record music on my own terms for my own personal enjoyment, and that's all I need quite frankly.

Anyway, sorry for straying off topic.

 

[billyblues]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Michael's 2000 Watts low sounding vocal has nothing to do with studio acoustics. It was autotuned to reduce the pitch by half octave or so. Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFM4mIDuVjs

And this is supposed to sound more like the "real" MJ than the new tracks?

Oh my...

 

[MJsweden]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

This IIIIsss MiChAeL jAcKsOn!!!!! :angel::angel::angel:

 

[KOPV]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

People that say it duznt sound anythng like Michael wud be lying to themselves.. I know if I heard a Justin timberlake track and Ppl said it was Michael I wudnt be waisting my time even talking about it cuz it's obviously not Michael... Does mike sound different yes! But considering that the tracks were not fully recorded in a studio and they had to bring out the vocal, match it to others, and take out any additional sound that drowned in.. It sounds good... Unless you've had experience in this there's really no bases of a debate.. P.s. A lil side note I find it interesting that wen sum Ppl were staring breaking news stream went from high res sound to low res sound it was the same time Ppl start hearing more Mj... Cud that be because the low res audio was less prroccessed which means we'd notice the drowned in sounds?? Whichmeans mjs real voice wud be more apparent

 

[Emjay]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

People that say it duznt sound anythng like Michael wud be lying to themselves.. I know if I heard a Justin timberlake track and Ppl said it was Michael I wudnt be waisting my time even talking about it cuz it's obviously not Michael... Does mike sound different yes! But considering that the tracks were not fully recorded in a studio and they had to bring out the vocal, match it to others, and take out any additional sound that drowned in.. It sounds good... Unless you've had experience in this there's really no bases of a debate.. P.s. A lil side note I find it interesting that wen sum Ppl were staring breaking news stream went from high res sound to low res sound it was the same time Ppl start hearing more Mj... Cud that be because the low res audio was less prroccessed which means we'd notice the drowned in sounds?? Whichmeans mjs real voice wud be more apparent

you could be right - I don't know enough about it so I'll keep quiet ;D

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

You have great points here.

after looking at the studio that the Cascios have on Oprah I can tell you I could see why there would have to be alot of work and processing like Riley was saying.. It definatly seems like michael would only record demos there.. the recording booth did not have many sound breakers at all.. that is NEEDED in a recording booth to block outside noises and for the microphone to get the clearest sound possible of the vocals..

:agree:

 

[Arklove]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

KOPV, I want to say that your posts are very interesting; thank you for them!

 

[TSCM]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Michael's 2000 Watts low sounding vocal has nothing to do with studio acoustics. It was autotuned to reduce the pitch by half octave or so. Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFM4mIDuVjs

Contrary to popular belief, 2000 Watts was NOT pitch shifted at all. That was Michael singing in a lower register.

 

[MikeJax]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Cmon buddy, it's not that the singing sounds bad or anything...it just doesn't really sound like michael jackson's singing. It's not that hard to understand, we all heard mj's voice in amazing and in bad shape, we heard his voice change through the years, we heard him sing in a voicemail message, in a courtroom, while walking outside, singing with friends, demo's or even when he had a cold(history tour, destiny concert london for example)....but those cascios tracks are something else my friend. Not 1 not 2 but all 3 of them...

I really really want to believe it's mj because i just want to enjoy his music like i always did, but this aint right.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Cascios studio.. notes to take from

Cmon buddy, it's not that the singing sounds bad or anything...it just doesn't really sound like michael jackson's singing. It's not that hard to understand, we all heard mj's voice in amazing and in bad shape, we heard his voice change through the years, we heard him sing in a voicemail message, in a courthouse, while walking outside, singing with friends, demo's or even when he had a cold(history tour, destiny concert london for example)....but those cascios tracks are something else my friend. Not 1 not 2 but all 3 of them...

I really really want to believe it's mj because i just want to enjoy his music like i always did, but this aint right.

I agree with you here...