Hot topic Brad Sundberg Seminars: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

^Hey Jamba! Did you go Saturday? We didn't get the little chapstick tidbit today :)
The TWYMMF thing. Blew my MIND.
and the 2 hour tape was actually Give In To Me ;) my favorite part was how you could hear Michael SMACKING his gum throughout the whole thing. Hilarious. Just experiencing and hearing that creative process first hand was something else.
The end though. Absolutely my favorite part. I can't get it out of my head. So stunning. Incredible.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

I went today!
You guys...my god I can't even put into words. I just got home from the city and will write something up tomorrow if you want but I just...I'm still completely in awe and living on cloud 9. If you have the opportunity to go, PLEASE DO IT. I will look at Michael differently for the rest of my life. It was so stunningly beautiful. I'm still in shock that it all even happened. Wow.

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Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Hi, peace.love.mj. Yes, I went Saturday. Did you do the VIP? He ended with "Faces" on Saturday--was that the same as for you guys?

Yes, you are right it was GITM--my mistake--I am pretty tired as it was a long day yesterday and I was busy Sunday. I will post more stuff tomorrow and I hope I get it right (!). Good you caught that, thanks. Yes, the gum smacking was funny as hell and very cute.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Jamba! I didn't. Wish I could have :/ Did you?
Sunday he just ended with Childhood and the phone message. We were already 45 minutes over though and he wanted time for pictures and greetings and questions and all that fun stuff.
The lady next to me took TONS of notes that she's emailing me so hopefully she'll let me share some of them here. As attentive as I was, I'm sure there's still things that I'll forget. But, I will be back later today to post some more :)
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Why was recording not allowed? How will the rest of the world get to hear the audio mentioned, does brad plan to release them?
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

I can understand why he didn't allow recording...it was VERY unique and valuable stuff.
He's writing a book, said it should be out in 2/3 years.
 
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Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Jamba! I didn't. Wish I could have :/ Did you?
Sunday he just ended with Childhood and the phone message. We were already 45 minutes over though and he wanted time for pictures and greetings and questions and all that fun stuff.
The lady next to me took TONS of notes that she's emailing me so hopefully she'll let me share some of them here. As attentive as I was, I'm sure there's still things that I'll forget. But, I will be back later today to post some more :)

Yes, I did the VIP--splurged! So for us after he ended with Childhood and the phone message, we had MJ's favorite meal, which they had at the studio on Fridays, which was also family day when the staff could bring their wives, kids. So the food was roast turkey, mashed potatoes, collard greens, corn, gravy, mac n cheese, fried chicken, and for desert--banana cream pie. This was made in the studio by the "slam dunk sisters"--MJ's very cute name for the 2 women who put the meal together. So we ate that with Brad--I was so hungry since I had only had a bagel all day! We looked at photos of NL and then ended with listening to an unreleased song called "Faces" (according to some peple there who had heard it before). It reminded me of MLK's "I have a dream" speech--very inspirational words from MJ about how the world is going to change for the better and after the speech, it went into a song. That's the first time I heard it (I think). I am going to post my recollections in a while.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Some memories of Brad Sundberg's 'In the Studio with MJ'

Brad was with MJ for these albums--Bad, Dangerous, HIStory--and he also worked on NL wiring the place up for "orchestral quality" music. He is 49 and as a kid loved disco, Abba, and dance music. He is Swedish, and so is Bruce Swedien, and so they had that in common. They also live close to each otther in Florida. Brad has 4 daughters and one of them, Amanda, was with him during the seminar. MJ played with Amanda when she was a baby, and Amanda was at NL and rode the train with MJ the first time it was launched, and was also on stage with him for We Are the World finales.

Brad first worked at Westlake Studios as a runner--doing errands--getting hamburgers, etc., and later became part of the team as a studio engineer. Brad was a good friend of Matt Forger and later Bill Bottrell. He played a tape of Don't Stop with a focus on the bottles half-filled with water--the drums and bottles form the beat. MJ 'played' the bottles--he said MJ was "an amazing percussionist." It was great to hear how Brad could isolate the sounds, kind of peel back the other sounds to highlight the sounds he wanted us to hear--like the bottles used as percussion for Don't Stop, sounds that sometimes get lost in the total effect of the song.

He talked about the band members of Toto, which he said was an 'awesome band' and that MJ and Q loved them, esp. Steve Pocaro, who wrote Human Nature and also For All Time. Sadly, Steve's brother Jeff, who was the drummer, died later.

Brad talked about Captain EO (1985) (Francis Ford Cuppola and George Lucas). He said for the dancers and choreographers, different versions of the music would be made so they could focus on the dance steps and the beat. He said at that time there was "Dolby surround sound," which later became "Dolby Digital sound." He said Captain Eo was "the first discrete surround sound movie ever made." This was before the technology moved to Dolby Digital sound.

He played Scared of the Moon--that was so beautiful. The studio had great speakers and excellent sound quality so you could really hear the music and all the depth of it. He talked about the multitrack tape. I am not up on this, but I started to understand it a bit more. The very thick band of tape with the different tracks on it--I think there were 16 tracks at the time. Brad was an assistant engineer for Bruce Swedien during the day and at night he would sit in on 'Bad" being recorded.

He said the Hayvenhurst studio (team B) where MJ would work with people like John Barnes (Liberian Girl), Matt Forger, Bruce Swedien, and Bill Bottrell (I hope I have the names right)--was in his opinion a 'terrible studio'--he said they spent 80% of the time fixing something.

He said MJ was always cold and needed quartz heaters--maybe also the warmth was good for his voice. He said they always had to have the quatrtz heaters on. He also liked to have hot water, which they would heat in the microwave.

As far as the sound--he said MJ liked the sound LOUD--"jet engine loud." They would blow out speakers all the time, he said.

He said MJ was very congenial and if he didn't like someone, he would just disappear, go into his lounge. The team they developed was a group of people who got along well together, and that was as important as how good you were at your work. The team had to 'jell'-- be happy together--and be organic. He used that word 'organic' to describe how the music was created.

ok, more later.
 
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Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

More recollections from the seminar with Brad:

Brad said MJ had his own language--like "smelly jelly." (I think we knew about that :))

He said MJ had long bony fingers and could make amazing finger snaps and could do it forever--his fingers never got tired.

About "Streetwalker"--Brad said Quincy Jones HATED "Streetwalker" but he and Dileo loved "Another Part of Me." So MJ hired another studio (studio C) at Westlake Studio and hired another engineer (a Brazilian guy called Humberto ? didn't get his last name) to work on Streetwalker (this was in 87?). He said MJ was very competitive and wanted the best so he would get people to compete with each other--this happened a lot when they worked on Dangerous, when he had 3 different producers--Teddy Riley, Bill Bottrell, and Bruce Swedien. And all of them wanted THEIR songs on the album.

IJCSLY--pillow talk. Brad said the opening where MJ talks to a girl about how much he loves her was mocked by DJ's. He said to get the "pillow talk" someone actually designed a head (made a head) it looked like a robot's head, and put it in the bed with MJ and he talked to it (??). Don't know if this is true but this is what Brad said! He also said there were about 8 or 9 versions of the Bad album because every time a single was released it was a new mix and then incorporated into a new version of the album. Interesting!!

He said when the songs were performed with a live band on tour, the songs were 30% faster and 2 keys lower to save MJ's voice.

When they were in Pensacola, FL, rehearsing for the Bad tour, MJ recorded a 4-part harmony for the opening of the song TWYMMF in his HOTEL ROOM! Brad said they had a trailer with the studio equipment parked close to the hotel and ran a wire up the outside of the hotel to MJ's room. (doooo-do, doooo-do).

Here's how Brad characterized the 3 production teams for Dangerous:

1) Teddy Riley--" a revolving door of women." LOL (Teddy replaced a guy who was there previously called Brian X (?) who worked on song that became part of Ghosts).
2) Bruce Swedien--"a scientist' who 'did everything by the book" very organized.
3) Bill Bottrell--moody, disillusioned with the music industry, independent. (he said Bill B.and Bruce S. were opposites in temperament and hated each other !). Bill sounded kind of spontaneous and hippie-like vs. the very organized and scientific Bruce Swedien. Brad used to like to hang out with Bill B.

Then Brad played the creation of Give In to Me, which happened when Bill B.played the guitar and worked with the gum-cracking MJ to put the song together over a 2 hour period. It was very exciting and fascinating to hear the song and the lyrics develop as they worked together. This is also where the word ORGANIC appeared; in Brad's estimation this was v.important to how the music was born. You can hear MJ finding the song lines, the sounds he wanted, and how he asked Bill to shape the guitar chords he was playing (similar to how he directed Michael Bearden in TII when he was telling him to play a simple chord opening to TWYMMF). I think here too in this part we saw how important the word PLAY was to MJ--to play with the music in a fun way and enjoy the creative process.

BTW, Brad really respected Quincy as a musician and said the album Back on the Block was brilliant. He said he thought Q. did not like some songs that MJ liked, such as Billie Jean, because Q. thought that musically they were too simple.(But MJ liked that simplicity IMO.)

to be cont.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Thank you guys for the notes! It's priceless. I'm grateful for every bit.

Brian X (?) would be Brian Loren?

Bill Bottrell--moody, disillusioned with the music industry, independent. (he said Bill B.and Bruce S. were opposites in temperament and hated each other !). Bill sounded kind of spontaneous and hippie-like vs. the very organized and scientific Bruce Swedien.

Oh now I see who Bottrell meant in that quote in J. Vogel's book where he said that "unlike some other producers of MJ at the time" he tried to keep rawer, more natural sound of Michael's vocals. Interesting.

Damn, I should have bought tickets to NYC instead of Vegas.
 
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Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Thank you everyone for your notes from this seminar.:flowers:
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Thank you so much for your notes, I wish I could attend the seminar in Paris.

He said to get the "pillow talk" someone actually designed a head (made a head) it looked like a robot's head, and put it in the bed with MJ and he talked to it (??). Don't know if this is true but this is what Brad said!

Maybe Brad is talking about this special kind of sound system, called the 'Holophonics', constructed by Hugo Zuccarelli:



 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Thank you so much for your notes, I wish I could attend the seminar in Paris.
Maybe Brad is talking about this special kind of sound system, called the 'Holophonics', constructed by Hugo Zuccarelli:

Yes, I believe Brad was calling it "a Zuccarelli head" now that I think about it. It was a "something" head.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

They played.

An unreleased song.

Someone tell me about it!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

They played.

An unreleased song.

Someone tell me about it!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed!

Please tell us more about this song. From which era? What style (the description sounds like it's a bit similar to MITM or KTF)? How cool was it?
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Does anyone know the unreleased songs name?
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Just wrote 11 pages of notes that I'll start uploading once they scan in :)
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

deleted my notes...you guys gotta just go for yourselves now ;)
 
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Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

One tidbit for now--Brad said that the dance tracks, like Smooth Criminal, Bad, TWYMMF were sped up 5-6% on the released tracks from what was done in the studio. He played a few demos at the unspeeded up pace and they sounded different, clearer--some people there liked the slower-paced versions better. Interesting!!!

Final tidbit--the name 'rubba' was a word MJ used in the studio: "We need more rubba." Brad said rubba usually meant more bass--like a rubber band, the bass strings, but it could also mean more synth. More later!

I'm glad the people who were able to go to this seminar learned new information about MJ and the creative process behind his albums. I glad you were also able to hear demos of some of his dance tracks. Were one of the original paced demos "Bad"? If so, how different did it sound from the released track? What other demos did he play?

Ah, so THAT'S what "rubba" is! I was wondering what that was.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Thank you guys for the notes! It's priceless. I'm grateful for every bit.

Brian X (?) would be Brian Loren?



Oh now I see who Bottrell meant in that quote in J. Vogel's book where he said that "unlike some other producers of MJ at the time" he tried to keep rawer, more natural sound of Michael's vocals. Interesting.

Damn, I should have bought tickets to NYC instead of Vegas.

Yes, it must be Brian Loren. Brad said he was replaced by Teddy Riley. Maybe Brian didn't fit in somehow with the 'Team." He did some work that became the songs in Ghosts, but Brad didn't go into details.

Peace.Love.MJ gives more details about Bill Bottrell and how he liked to drink beer--Corona. Very different from Bruce Swedien "the scientist." Brad would go from office to office (but not much to Teddy R.) but he would go between Bruce S. and Bill B.'s offices, but he was more comfortable with Bill.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

I'm glad the people who were able to go to this seminar learned new information about MJ and the creative process behind his albums. I glad you were also able to hear demos of some of his dance tracks. Were one of the original paced demos "Bad"? If so, how different did it sound from the released track? What other demos did he play?

Ah, so THAT'S what "rubba" is! I was wondering what that was.

Yes, I was very interested in the meaning of 'rubba'--in fact, Brad put on screen a panel of tracks where you could mute one or more of the tracks so you could isolate the sounds--just hear the vocals, the drums, the horns, or whatever. At the end of the panel, which had 14 tracks, were 'rubba L' and 'rubba R' (2 rubba panels). In this case, Brad said rubba meant the synth (the song was "Bad") but it usually meant the bass. I was so interested b/c the media tried to make the nickname 'rubba' into something sexual--it wasn't!!!

I didn't get enough of a feel for the slower pace to make a choice between it and the released versions--but the vocals on the slower paced version were clearer and less 'tinny'--someone said the vocals were sped up too much and sounded like the Chipmunks at times--too fast. It would be good to listen to a whole song at the slower pace but we just heard snippets. I think the ones we heard were TMYMMF--maybe 'Bad' too and Smooth Criminal (but I can't say for sure, sorry-- maybe peace,love.mj can say). Some people liked the slower pace version better--I would need more time to listen but definitely the vocals were better IMO.
 
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Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Agreed!

Please tell us more about this song. From which era? What style (the description sounds like it's a bit similar to MITM or KTF)? How cool was it?

The song Brad played at the very end of the VIP session on Saturday was a song someone said was called 'Faces." It actually made me rather sad b/c it was this very inspirational speech that started the song that, as I said, reminded me of MLK's I Have a Dream speech--all about how things can be better in the future. I felt sad b/c I feel things have not changed the way MJ wanted them to. I'm sorry I can't remember specific lines--I was pretty tired and brain-dead by then (seminar was from noon to 8 pm!! only short breaks), but it was about having peace, no war, love, that kind of thing. It was a beautiful song--I wanted to research it and see if there is a song called "Faces" on the internet, but have not had time. But since some people in the seminar had heard it before and identified it as "Faces" it must be out there somewhere. Brad said he did not think anyone had heard it before. I felt sad b/c MJ tried so hard to 'change the world' but sometimes I feel pessemistic about the future and where we are headed. As MJ sang in Earth Song--'I used to dream, I used to glance beyond the stars, now I don't know where we are, although I know, we've drifted FAR!" So this song "Faces" was waaaay more idealistic, whereas Earth Song is waaay more realistic and confronting the damage and loss--and asking "Do you give a damn."

"Faces" was very beautiful and very cool--but to me, it was sad. I am not sure of when it was recorded or written.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Thank you so much for your notes, I wish I could attend the seminar in Paris.



Maybe Brad is talking about this special kind of sound system, called the 'Holophonics', constructed by Hugo Zuccarelli:




Yes, I remember that name Zuccarelli--but the photo he showed us was without the covering --it was a plainer head without the cloth around it. I don't know how MJ kept a straight face if he had to say those lyrics to that head (either one)--LOL.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Some more recollection from the seminar:

Brad said MJ was insatiably curious. He was especially curious about Christmas and kept asking Brad about it--what was Christmas like? How could you NOT open the presents? MJ said he would want to open them right away.

On 'Keep the Faith'--Mj's voice cracked. Peace.Love. MJ wrote up a great account of this in her/his notes. Brad talked about how upset MJ was that his voice had changed and he couldn't hit the high notes (he was sobbing) but later came back and sang it after they reset it to a lower key. Brad said he "crunched the Dolby's" :)--meaning he sang with such force that the Dolby sound system couldn't handle it--at 4:07 in the song.

Brad talked about what producers worked on what songs--Bill Bottrell--Monkey Business, Black or White, Who Is It, Give In To Me. Bruce Swedien worked on 'Time Marches On" which became JAM when Teddy Riley worked on it. Teddy did She Drives Me Wild. Brad said he didn't like it b/c it had no melody but then MJ came along with the vocals and 'dropped the melody" on the song. He said Black Street became Best of Joy under Teddy R.

In 1992 Brad started working on NL putting music on the carousels and the trains. I will get into that more later.

In the late 90's a lot of studios closed, end of the disco era. MJ came to NYC to work at the Hit Factory (421 West 54th Street). Brad is not happy that the Hit Factory is no more and is now converted into apartments! Brad spoke about how the Andrae Crouch Choir was flown out to NYC to work on songs and showed a clip of them rehearsing (I thought it was for TDCAU, but I don't see that they were singing on the final version of that--there is a children's choir instead listed). Brad showed a video of the huge string section that was used for the opening section of Earth Song (the part in the video before the bulldozer appears)--Jeremy Lubbock conducted thr NY Philharmonic Orchestra. This was also used (I think) for Smile and Childhood--we saw clips of these rehearsals/recordings too. Brad mentioned Steven Foster but I didn't catch what he did regarding this. MJ also recorded a Christmas Song with a children's choir and he had a lot of props to make it look like Christmas, with Brad in a Santa Suit! also a tree, fake snow, and so on. He gave the kids a gameboy as a gift (a special treat at that time). MJ loved Home Alone and the song "Christmas Star."

Brad talked a bit about creative people and how they are not necessarily practical with mechanical things--for example, he said Quincy could not drive a car. He said MJ could, but he was a terrible driver!

Brad ended the seminar for all except the VIP people with a tape of MJ recording Childhood in a booth while the orchestra played outside. It was a black and white video and was truly amazing to see MJ's intensity as he sang this song--he poured his full energy and heart into it--all out. And, as peace.love.mj says in her/his wonderful notes, he made fists like YEAH!!!! when he heard the orchestra come in and do a great job! He was 'over the moon' with joy that his vision of the song was being realized.

I will wrap up my notes later with what happened when Brad talked about NL.
 
Re: Brad Sundberg seminar, June 29th: Making Music With Michael Jackson

Yes, I was very interested in the meaning of 'rubba'--in fact, Brad put on screen a panel of tracks where you could mute one or more of the tracks so you could isolate the sounds--just hear the vocals, the drums, the horns, or whatever. At the end of the panel, which had 14 tracks, were 'rubba L' and 'rubba R' (2 rubba panels). In this case, Brad said rubba meant the synth (the song was possibly "Bad" or maybe Smooth Criminal--sorry I am not sure, in my notes I wrote Smooth Criminal) but it usually meant the bass.

Wait a minute. I think I know what sound (or 'rubba') from the song "Bad" (if it was "Bad") you're talking about. There's a sound that plays in both channels at the same time and if you were to, say, remove a headphone as you were listening to it or if one speaker was out, it kinda gives the song a different feel.

Maybe one day, Brad might can post these snippets (if not the whole song) online one day. :) According to Peace's notes, they played a 14 minute recording demo of "Bad" and a working demo of "Bad". I'd really love to hear them one day.
 
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