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Androgyny in music

DuranDuran

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In the past, performers with blurred gender lines were more accepted by mainstream audiences than is today. Even falsetto singing like Phillip Bailey or Frankie Valli isn't really done anymore by newer acts because the image of that isn't macho. What do you think of such performers and why do you think it lost its appeal for the general public? Here are some examples:

Little Richard
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David Bowie
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Annie Lennox
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Motley Crue
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The Deele
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Grace Jones
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Robert Smith
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Prince
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K.D. Lang
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New York Dolls
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They dared to be different, I dig anybody that doesn't follow what society wants them to act or look like.

Plus, I think people are more in tune to safe, clean, teeny bopper acts right now but if it falls out of favor, androgyny may make a comeback. It still exists in underground circles.
 
Honestly, Michael could be there as well , maybe?

I think it's OK, they are just being unique :)
 
it is still very much alive. nowadays a different image is sold but that is more to make things appear to be what they are not. but any act that wears something is already androgyny. I mean Adam and Eve didn't wear clothes now did they?

it is different when it is done racially. when a Black act does it questions are asked and also the audience is looking for something a bit different. white acts are allowed to gender bend and yet still be seen as tough. think about Judias Priest? Guns and Roses? Cinderalla? Bon Jovi?

the appeal would come back with the right act and songs.

to me alot of the acts flexing and posing are just acting a role. it ain't what you wear,but what you do and what you got.

everything goes into cycles and I bet with the right act it could do some numbers again. right now would be the perfect time for such a act because nowadays ain't nobody making you wonder about there freak flag except Lil Wayne. flashing your chest and Drawz is Androgyny for today.
 
troubleman84 said:
They dared to be different, I dig anybody that doesn't follow what society wants them to act or look like.

Plus, I think people are more in tune to safe, clean, teeny bopper acts right now but if it falls out of favor, androgyny may make a comeback. It still exists in underground circles.
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I think it has more to do with hip hop becoming mainstream, particularly gangsta, moreso than teen pop. Even with urban music starting with groups like Jodeci, being "hard" or "real" became the norm. For some reason though Andre 3000 can get away with it.
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it's just mainstream trends imo. in various Rock genres nowadays, you still see a lot of "effeminate" makeup and hair on "macho" rockers (Fall Out Boy, 30STM etc.) just like the glam punk in late 70s, 80s but less flamboyant.

he's not a musician but this muppet has somewhat become a pop cult figure in Britain and always based his image on the music-scene

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as for urban music, DuranDuran mentioned Andre3000, and there's also Cee-Lo from Gnarls Barkley

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but both in a more humorous sense. you can even call-out Snoop on that lol or you can just be genuinely 'metrosexual' like Timmy pointed out with some of the Prince, MJ, Bowie descendants like Maxwell or David Jordan etc.

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and in the ladies' circle - someone like Missy Elliot in Hip-Hop or Jill Sobule (sp?) in Folk.


the sad thing is, image-aside, if you're real and just come out and just say "i'm gay and i want to make some good music", you'd still be discriminated upon depending on your niche audience. take the example of Meshell Ndegeocello, i think she would have had so much success if she wasn't look upon as some sort of 'militantly'-open gay artist.
 
arXter said:
the sad thing is, image-aside, if you're real and just come out and just say "i'm gay and i want to make some good music", you'd still be discriminated upon depending on your niche audience. take the example of Meshell Ndegeocello, i think she would have had so much success if she wasn't look upon as some sort of 'militantly'-open gay artist.
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Urban R&B and Hip Hop are the mainstream now, and guys wearing makeup aren't accepted. I've heard plenty of teens saying acts like Prince or MJ are "gay". I don't really know anything about the music, but I hear that Emo kids are beat up or made fun of by other kids. They'll say that guys wearing tight pants are "gay", even referring to old acts and that was the style back then. But yet they wear big pants with their butts showing. I have no idea what that is about, since it represents that you are the "reciever" in prison culture, lol.
 
I agree with the above :yes:

and crap, i didn't mean to freakin erase my post......oh well :(
 
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I think androgyny lost it's appeal in music, because the latest so called stars like the pathetic David Jordan don't have a cool androgynous image and music that suits it. They have no understanding of androgyny in music at all, and just see it as being cool and shocking to people.

I think the coolest androgynous image/persona has to be David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust. His persona and music at that time (I think Bowie was at his peak from 1974-80 after Ziggy Stardust era) was was really like from another planet, a higher being. But what a lot of people miss out about David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust persona, is that it was influenced by Stanley Kubrick film A Clockwork Orange which Bowie said he de-violanced, and Japanese Kabubki Theatre as peope wrongly assume Ziggy Stardust has to do with cross dressing.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nXjGhabWI5I

The photo of David Bowie on the cover of his album The Man Who Sold The World (which is a hard rock album, and Nirvana famously covered the title song), is a Man Dress (Bowie said this) and it was designed by Slash's mother who designed some of Bowie's clothes from 1970-76. Plus he once dated Slash's mother.

The amazing Marc Bolan aka T.Rex should be included on this list, along with Bowie he was the innovator of the androgynous persona in music.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hops0nGaBV4&feature=related
 
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ithink the main reason why acts of today stray away from it is because though said acts mentioned sold alot of records,etc.. in alot of circles they aren't taking as serious for there art as they are seen for there image. and sad to say some folks can't look past the image to appreciate the music. it's a catch 22. on one hadn you want to be original but on the other you pay a price with looking outside of the norm to some folks.
 
I think if an artist sticks to an androgynous image for too long, then their music won't be taken seriously as the image will in time become a parody of what it was. David Bowie only stuck to an androgynous image /persona for 4yrs then moved on, and he's regarded by many as the most influencial and cutting edge/innovative pop star of all time.

What I think many pop stars of today lack (apart from talent), is a sense of unique style. I don't think androgyny is what's missing from music, it's being unique that's missing. Androgyny was cool in the 1970's and 80's, and now we live on a culture that copies 1970's and 80's style in such a boring and calculated way, that's not other worldly (which is what androgyny at it's best was supposed to be). It's time for wanna be pop stars to move on and stop trying the recreate the past where I'd say people in music were far more talented.
 
benscarr said:
David Sylvian got the name Slyvian from a lyric of a David Bowie song called Drive In Saturday, from his album Aladdin Sane (released in 1973).
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Wow, I didn't know that. :) As you can probably tell, I'm a huge fan. :D
 
The bad Simple Minds (famous for the song Don't You Forget about Me from the 1985 movie The Breakfast Club) mare also named after a lyric from a David Bowie song called Jean Genie (from the Aladdin Sane album).
 
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there was a guy named Jermaine Stewart and does KD Lang count...I tend to be drawn towards the androgynous folks...I just like something different the same ol thing is boring to me....I like an artist that people can't figure out...a mysterious one...that keeps people wondering..some artist today are androgynous and they don't even identify as such all these guys with the long hair look that way to me....well some of them
 
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tashae said:
there was a guy named Jermaine Stewart
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I don't know if it's true or not, but there was a rumor that he was writing an autobiography and he was going to name some singers and actors as being gay and in the closet. When he died, his notes disappeared and the book was never heard about again.
 
I think Jermaine Stewart and Tevin Campbell have similar sounding voices, but TC can sing better.
 
DuranDuran said:
I don't know if it's true or not, but there was a rumor that he was writing an autobiography and he was going to name some singers and actors as being gay and in the closet. When he died, his notes disappeared and the book was never heard about again.
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him and his career were put to rest all too soon. he did get on soul train and to me He looks like He could Be NEYo's daddy but with a Perm.

anyway Jermaine Stewart touring with Culture Club and other acts. He got around and had alot of inside scoop.
 
dont forget Boy George
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Traci Chapman:
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I love most of this music.
 
I think the main reason why people aren't so receptive towards androgyny is the fact that they automatically relate it to transsexuality or homosexuality - which, in many people's minds, is "wrong" :rolleyes:

Although in America few dare to be "different" from this point of view (except for the old bands/artists), not the same can be said about the rest of the world.

A curious aspect is that in Japan, it's one of the most normal things you'll see, and very popular too. In fact, Japanese rock is better known as "Visual Rock", precisely because the artists use heavy, bright make-up, wear huge wigs of various colours and some even resort to female clothes.
I'm saying it's a curious aspect also because many of these bands have toured both Europe and America and have had tremendous success. People love their look, find them beautiful and hot - the more visual, the better. I often check out international forums that discuss the Japanese music scene (I'm a fan myself, after all), that's how I know how well received they are. One thing I found interesting is that I've heard many people say that if they saw non-asians dress like that or wearing such make-up, they wouldn't like it, they'd find it unappealing. Maybe because some Asians really are more effeminate and delicate than others? :scratch I dunno.

Anyways, here's some examples:

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X Japan (pretty much the founders of this genre)



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Yoshiki Hayashi - leader of X Japan




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Luna Sea




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Malice Mizer


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Miyavi - he just finished a world tour, sold out in an instant ;)


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An Cafe - been on tour in Europe



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Dir en Grey



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The Gazette


And there are many more, but I'm not patient enough to post all of them :lol:

I have to admit though, I find it a bit annoying that European bands have started adopting this style, cause it's pretty obvious it's jrock inspired.

For instance:

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Cinema Bizzare - Germany

And who doesn't know:

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Tokio Hotel


Though I think it's pretty obvious by now, I am into androgynous styles :lol: And I know I'm not alone :D

P.S. Sorry about the long list of Japanese artists :innocent: :lol:
 
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i think androgyny in music, fashion, lifestyle etc. is as popular as before (or even more) but for some reason it's been always limited mainly to rock, glam rock, electronic and more experimental styles of music. MJ and Prince are the only R&B artists with an androgynous image i can think of. hip-hop in general has always been about macho image and girls wearing like Beyonce or Britney. and it has become the mainstream music genre nowadays.
as Cryingangel mentioned, it seems that Europe and Japan, where pop/rock/dance/electronic music gets more attention, are also more andro-friendly. it's more related to culture and society in general imo - R&B and hip-hop are rooted in America, where views on gender roles and gender image are more traditional.

here's singer Elly Jackson from a new pop act La Roux, who, it seems, take their inspiration from Eurythmics, musically and image-wise.

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MJ and Prince confused the crap out of me when I was younger, because while MJ talked in that girlish voice, his videos were usually pretty macho. He didn't really do music videos to his ballads outside of "She's Out Of My Life", and there's certainly nothing androgynous about DSTYGE, RWY, Thriller, Beat It, Billie Jean, Bad etc. Whereas a guy like Prince sort of pranced and acted womanly in his videos, but talked in that super deep voice offstage.

Some artists like Andre 3000 and a few others blur the lines a bit sometimes, but not much. I don't know, just the way society is now I guess.
 
I assume this counts, although they didn't continue with this style. I don't think it was their idea.

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You also have Adam Lambert's new album cover:

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"Thank you to those who appreciate and understand that the album cover is deliberately campy,” Lambert wrote. “It's an (homage) to the past. It IS ridiculous.”

“For those that don't get it: oh well…Glad to have gotten your attention,” the performer tweeted before signing off with, "Androgyny. Rock n Roll."
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