What If ? No Money

msladeevon

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I just read Karen Faye's twitter telling the fans not to support any of the new Sony Products coming out under the new contract. Well I sent her a message that might of been harsh on her facebook, but so be it. From what I am believing is that this money is helping his estate. Meaning his children correct . She is saying that we are helping the system of Sony. She was a friend who i believed lived off of him and can no longer do this. What i want her to tell me or any family member with the conspiracy theory or the murder theory. If Michael died broke and poor like the industry wanted him to, I believe. Who was going to support his children. If he died broke then their would be no family house, there would b eno karate classes , no home schooling, no trip to universal studio. Nobody would be benifitting off of these children. Right now I believe that everyone is upset that Michael did not leave any money to them. Yes i was shock that he only left it to his Mother and children, but I was happy , because the Jackson family came or started this business together and they had the same opportunities as Michael . It is that Michael capitalized on it and the other decided to live a normal life. I think I'm out of focus now so I will stop. If this makes no sense you can delete. Just Saying
 
I agree with everything you said, even though Michael was clearly not happy with sony his mother and children need a house and they need to eat. When we purchase licensed merchandise we are supporting his family and supporting Michael. I am sure Michael would be more than happy with this to know that is family is being taking care of through is estate and his fans are still behind him 100%.
 
Like I have said before in the past and will continue to say so in the future...

Ms.Faye "thinks" she has a clue...BUT...in reality...she has NO clue AT all...!

As Always

:angel:
 
people should stop listening to Karen. she seems to think she is the centre of the universe. she's not. she's just a make-up artist.
 
Thanks for clarifyng that Andy I googled and found this info,

Value
The value of Sony/ATV Music Publishing has varied in reports. In 2002, Forbes magazine estimated Jackson's 50% stake in the company, along with other music publishing ventures, to be worth $450 million.[23] The organisation was valued at $700 million in 2003.[24] Industry experts valued the catalogue at between $600 million and $1 billion in 2004, based on the sales of rival catalogues.[25] Charles Koppelman, a veteran music industry executive, stated that $1 billion was more reflective of Sony/ATV Music Publishing's worth.[25] "Buyers would be lining up around the block if it were ever put up for sale", he said. "And I'd be in the front of the line."[25] The value of the company was further estimated by Ryan Schinman, chief of Platinum Rye, to be $1.5 billion[26]

In 2005, Jackson's defense attorney, Thomas Mesereau, revealed that the song catalogue had been valued at between $4 billion and $5 billion.[27] The company's song catalogue is believed to generate up to $80 million a year; The Beatles' hits alone bring in $30 million to $45 million a year.[25] Jackson's other publishing firm, Mijac, which publishes songs written by Jackson himself, is valued to be worth at least $75 million.[28]
from wiki ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony/ATV_Music_Publishing
 
I have done a lot of thinking about MJ's death, his will, who to support and who not and all that. Of course after MJ's death I was (and still am!) extremely sad, angry, frustrated, wanting to know what happened and why and who's fault it was. And if there is/was a conspiracy, I would not want to support those who may have been involved in MJ's death somehow. Of course at first I thought it could be someone from Sony, AEG, God knows who. Could be anyone. I do not know. But no matter who it was, the fact that Michael is gone still remains. Unfortunately. :boohoo: We can not bring him back, so in my opinion the next best thing we can and should do, is to make sure Michael "stays alive" in people's memories and that his legacy stays alive, and that his children will be okay.

About the will: I don't know if it's fake or if there was a newer one, but as of now I can't say I'd be unhappy with it. Why? Because at least to me, it really sounds like it is something MJ wanted. His kids and his mom are getting 80% of the money and 20% will go to charities (which is so admirable and clearly shows what a TRUE humanitarian Michael was!). What comes to John Branca being involved...well, think about it this way. He is one of the best, if not THE best lawyer out there in that field, so I don't think you could find a better one. And I think it's better he is making deals FOR the estate, than against it. I think it's better to have him in the ESTATE's team. He has gotten MJ the best and biggest deals in the past (Branca was the one who helped MJ get the ATV catalogue in the first place). And I don't really have a problem with Branca and McClain getting a percentage of the money the estate makes either, because I think that way there is a motivation for them too to make sure the estate is doing fine and making enough money. And if the estate is making money, Michael's children and his mother will be doing okay financially and will have nothing to worry about. Also, think about the alternative, if there was no will or they'd say the will was invalid. Do you really want JOE taking care of Michael's money?! Or others in the family? No offence to the other family members, but I don't think any of them have been too successful business wise so far. Also, like I said, I rather have John Branca in MJ's team than against it. To me it is far better choice to have Branca taking care of business than Joe Jackson or anyone else who doesn't have a clue, or who could be influenced/pressured by others in the family or outside the family. But that's just my opinion.

When I think about the whole thing I always think what the alternative could be and what MJ would have wanted. Let's say there was no will, or the family would have somehow been able to change the will so that they have control...creditors claims would have been coming in, loans would have been needed to be paid back...Money would have just been going out instead of coming in. And I don't think the family would have been able to make the kind of deals Branca was able to make. Or what if they would have made bad business deals (like I said, no offence to the family members, but how many of their business deals have been really succesful so far??) and the money would have been gone, and MJ's kids would be left with no money and no home. I really don't think Michael would have wanted that. And I really do think that the reason why there is a clause, that if someone tries to contest the will they will lose their share, was to protect Katherine. That way no one can pressure her to get control of the will and that way control of the money, so that way Katherine and the kids are safe.

When people say "boycott this" and "boycott that" it sometimes makes me wonder on WHO's side they are, or if they have really thought through what they are saying and are aware of the consequences. I mean, if we boycott everything and don't support the deals the estate has made, WHO do you think we will hurt? Right. Katherine, Michael's children and different children's charities. Because they will not be getting money. Those who ask people to boycott everything are in my opinion the ones trying to sabotage the rest of Michael by trying to avoid Michael's children getting money. Do we really want that the kids need to worry about having a home and having money in the future, or do we want them to be okay? They already lost their father. Do we really want them to lose the money as well?? Think about it!

And think about what Michael would have wanted. Would he have wanted to be remembered after his death as the KING and still be breaking records after his death and have the biggest record deal and be #1 on charts for a movie and for albums, etc. still...or would he have wanted to be forgotten? If we boycott everything, if we tell people to not buy all these MJ products, etc. WE, his FANS...those who were always on his side while he lived...are killing his legacy and hurting his legacy and making sure the younger generations won't know who MJ was. Do we REALLY want that?

I would want to have Michael back SO MUCH and it is SO PAINFUL that he is gone and I want justice and want those who had to do with his death to be made responsible. I still can't believe Michael is gone and a day doesn't go by that I don't think about him. I miss him SO MUCH. :boohoo: But still, no matter how sad, angry and frustrated I am, like I said, I still try to be sensible and try to think what's best for Michael's kids now and what the alternatives are. And I personally want Michael to be remembered forever and ever and want his legacy to live on, and I want his children and his mother to be okay. And if we boycott everything, I think we will end up hurting Michael, his legacy and his children more than we'd be helping. But that's just my opinion.
 
First of all I have nothing persoanl against Karen Faye but she acts like she is Michael's wife or something she needs to stop addressing her feelings towards people who were around him. Yes I have my own opinions about his "will" estate etc because of what I know and what Michael been trying to stress to people but at the end of the day his kids need all the help right now and his mother does to. I can see if The Jacksons family was boycotting along with her but they are not no body is really saying anything Trust me sony records are feeling the heat "they" know its a matter of time the truth will come out they have to clean what ever they did in the pass and to me they are really putting in work. As for Karen she needs to continue her Justice for Michael form a champane or a foundation in Michael's name along with the help of his fans and stop stressing her views on Michael's death because that Truth will get out but you have to move mountains before you pull the plug on others P.S she ain't no goody two shoes either out here like a chicken with her head chop off because of all her quilt move on with your life please.


good day all
 
This money goes to Michael's estate, meaning his children. I will do anything to support and help them, as well as Michael. I don't care what Karen Faye has to say. She gets on my nerves.
 
I dont agree with Karen. She has posted comments on her facebook regarding seances with LMP and then once the Sun wrote a story on it, she deleted her comment.


But regarding the deal, Michael didnt want Sony in his business any more. There are more than enough speeches from Michael (no not just regarding Invincible, thats small potatoes) that Michael told us to keep in our subconscious.

[youtube]aW1T1DZdWrA[/youtube]
[youtube]5OBUgE6EDFo[/youtube]

Dont forget what Michael told us.
 
I'm fed up of Karen Faye and the hate and vitorol she keeps spreading. She was with MJ for years and knew he was all about love. How does this hate campaign her and her followers have achieve anything apart from anger and upset?
 
I'm fed up of Karen Faye and the hate and vitorol she keeps spreading. She was with MJ for years and knew he was all about love. How does this hate campaign her and her followers have achieve anything apart from anger and upset?

bascially fam...she was the same one who allowed his cypt to be seen to the world knowing how private michael was
 
As far as the Greatest Hits go, like the last one said "This Is It". I am done with all of them. I will only from now on buy new/unreleased. Though in the past I was one of those idiots who buys everything haha which is fair enough if other people do because its Michael. Im just done with it now. :)
 
Well it's obvious that she is a long time employee and acquaintance of Michael and also she was present during the TII rehearsals. Although I'm 100% sure that she is very much saddened by the loss of Michael, her tweets in the recent weeks showed me that she is (and some of her friends/sidekicks/followers - call it what you want) not very knowledgeable about even some basic things. Also it is important to remember that she is highly biased and not an objective source of information.

For example she doesn't know the difference between a will and a trust (and that the provisions and the future of the estate are mentioned in the trust) or she doesn't' know the difference between a record deal and a distribution deal (the fact that distribution deal allows high control over the songs, the artists is still a free agent in regards to creativity and the company just acts like a distributor).

Furthermore she's totally clueless about the fact that Michael was indeed working with Sony in the last few years with projects such as Thriller 25, Visionary set etc and he was also going to do Off the wall 30 with Sony. Here I must add that I know that some people will cite and reference the events of 2001 and Michael's protest against Sony. I personally believe that that protest was more against Mottola and how he run Sony rather than Sony in general. And rather then being stuck in 9 some years ago, we should really look to Michael's more recent actions (ex: Thriller 25 with Sony etc).

Sometimes I feel like Karen Faye talks before she thinks about what are the consequences of what she's saying or she is simply not able to see the bigger picture.

Also I cannot really even comprehend why would we want to be against estate making money? All the money goes to the paying of the existing debts and securing the futures of Michael's children.

We all know that Michael had around $400 in debt ($300M loan on Sony/ ATV catalog, $75M on Mijac, and $20+M something on Neverland). There's also $30M in creditors claims filed. The recent news reports (the ones about the new Sony deal) said that the estate had made and paid $130M for debts. That still leaves around $200 -$300M in debts to be paid before we can say that the children's future's are secured. Now can somebody tell me why would we want to sabotage Michael's sales?

Now Sony is a huge corporation and they would not go bankrupt even if the protest works and nobody buys any MJ products coming out of Sony. So I'm curious did Karen even stop to think who will be hurt by such an action? Sony or MJ's kids? Now can somebody tell me why would we be willing to hurt the future of the children? Also if once again the protests works, what do you think the press will write? Are they going to say "Good Michael's fans taught Sony a lesson" or are they going to say "See how MJ's sales tanked". Once again can somebody tell me why would we want to hurt Michael's legacy? and How about looking to the big picture?

Well personally I can say that I'm supporting Michael and his kids yesterday, today and tomorrow.

On a side note to Karen: the "I was his only true friend and anybody else around Michael is evil one way or another" is not really helping you at all.
 
I have done a lot of thinking about MJ's death, his will, who to support and who not and all that. Of course after MJ's death I was (and still am!) extremely sad, angry, frustrated, wanting to know what happened and why and who's fault it was. And if there is/was a conspiracy, I would not want to support those who may have been involved in MJ's death somehow. Of course at first I thought it could be someone from Sony, AEG, God knows who. Could be anyone. I do not know. But no matter who it was, the fact that Michael is gone still remains. Unfortunately. :boohoo: We can not bring him back, so in my opinion the next best thing we can and should do, is to make sure Michael "stays alive" in people's memories and that his legacy stays alive, and that his children will be okay.

About the will: I don't know if it's fake or if there was a newer one, but as of now I can't say I'd be unhappy with it. Why? Because at least to me, it really sounds like it is something MJ wanted. His kids and his mom are getting 80% of the money and 20% will go to charities (which is so admirable and clearly shows what a TRUE humanitarian Michael was!). What comes to John Branca being involved...well, think about it this way. He is one of the best, if not THE best lawyer out there in that field, so I don't think you could find a better one. And I think it's better he is making deals FOR the estate, than against it. I think it's better to have him in the ESTATE's team. He has gotten MJ the best and biggest deals in the past (Branca was the one who helped MJ get the ATV catalogue in the first place). And I don't really have a problem with Branca and McClain getting a percentage of the money the estate makes either, because I think that way there is a motivation for them too to make sure the estate is doing fine and making enough money. And if the estate is making money, Michael's children and his mother will be doing okay financially and will have nothing to worry about. Also, think about the alternative, if there was no will or they'd say the will was invalid. Do you really want JOE taking care of Michael's money?! Or others in the family? No offence to the other family members, but I don't think any of them have been too successful business wise so far. Also, like I said, I rather have John Branca in MJ's team than against it. To me it is far better choice to have Branca taking care of business than Joe Jackson or anyone else who doesn't have a clue, or who could be influenced/pressured by others in the family or outside the family. But that's just my opinion.

When I think about the whole thing I always think what the alternative could be and what MJ would have wanted. Let's say there was no will, or the family would have somehow been able to change the will so that they have control...creditors claims would have been coming in, loans would have been needed to be paid back...Money would have just been going out instead of coming in. And I don't think the family would have been able to make the kind of deals Branca was able to make. Or what if they would have made bad business deals (like I said, no offence to the family members, but how many of their business deals have been really succesful so far??) and the money would have been gone, and MJ's kids would be left with no money and no home. I really don't think Michael would have wanted that. And I really do think that the reason why there is a clause, that if someone tries to contest the will they will lose their share, was to protect Katherine. That way no one can pressure her to get control of the will and that way control of the money, so that way Katherine and the kids are safe.

When people say "boycott this" and "boycott that" it sometimes makes me wonder on WHO's side they are, or if they have really thought through what they are saying and are aware of the consequences. I mean, if we boycott everything and don't support the deals the estate has made, WHO do you think we will hurt? Right. Katherine, Michael's children and different children's charities. Because they will not be getting money. Those who ask people to boycott everything are in my opinion the ones trying to sabotage the rest of Michael by trying to avoid Michael's children getting money. Do we really want that the kids need to worry about having a home and having money in the future, or do we want them to be okay? They already lost their father. Do we really want them to lose the money as well?? Think about it!

And think about what Michael would have wanted. Would he have wanted to be remembered after his death as the KING and still be breaking records after his death and have the biggest record deal and be #1 on charts for a movie and for albums, etc. still...or would he have wanted to be forgotten? If we boycott everything, if we tell people to not buy all these MJ products, etc. WE, his FANS...those who were always on his side while he lived...are killing his legacy and hurting his legacy and making sure the younger generations won't know who MJ was. Do we REALLY want that?

I would want to have Michael back SO MUCH and it is SO PAINFUL that he is gone and I want justice and want those who had to do with his death to be made responsible. I still can't believe Michael is gone and a day doesn't go by that I don't think about him. I miss him SO MUCH. :boohoo: But still, no matter how sad, angry and frustrated I am, like I said, I still try to be sensible and try to think what's best for Michael's kids now and what the alternatives are. And I personally want Michael to be remembered forever and ever and want his legacy to live on, and I want his children and his mother to be okay. And if we boycott everything, I think we will end up hurting Michael, his legacy and his children more than we'd be helping. But that's just my opinion.

Well said Summer:clapping:

BTW I appreciate you all sharing your views on this, I have little knowledge on Michaels finances as I have never researched into it.
 
We all know that Michael had around $400 in debt ($300M loan on Sony/ ATV catalog, $75M on Mijac, and $20+M something on Neverland). There's also $30M in creditors claims filed. The recent news reports (the ones about the new Sony deal) said that the estate had made and paid $130M for debts. That still leaves around $200 -$300M in debts to be paid before we can say that the children's future's are secured. Now can somebody tell me why would we want to sabotage Michael's sales?

How do we know this for sure ?
 
I stopped following Karen on facebook along time ago. Some of the things she was doing/saying just all way too much.
 
How do we know this for sure ?

Do you mean the numbers that I wrote? Here are the reported numbers with links

"The Fortress loans were coming due yet again at the end of December 2007. Barclays refinanced the $300 million loan against Sony/ATV from Fortress. HSBC (HBC) lent $30 million against MiJac. Plainfield Asset Management, a hedge fund, loaned another $40 million against MiJac at a 16% interest rate on terms that allowed Jackson to defer payments while the amount due grew."

also

"Under terms of an agreement struck with Jackson after Colony purchased the note on the property for $23.5 million" (they would have to pay this amount back if they want to get the full ownership of Neverland back).

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/23/news/companies/michael_jackson_money_assets.fortune/index.htm

From TMZ reports about the creditors claims "So checking the board again, we're now over $26.5 million!"

http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/22/michael-jackson-creditors-claim-lawsuit/

So the debt is 300M for Sony/ATV + $70M for Mijac + $24M for Neverland + $27M for creditors claims = $420M

The payment info is from the WSJ article about the new deal

"The estate is likely to pay off about $125 million in debt by the end of this year, including $35 million owed to AEG Live, the promoter that was to stage a series of concerts by Mr. Jackson in London."

so 125-35 = $90M is being paid for the existing loans

so by basic math we can see that the estate is to be still in debt by $420-90 = $330M

WSJ reports a similar number for the current remaining debt

The estate is likely to refinance another $325 million backed by Mr. Jackson's two biggest assets: Sony/ATV Music Publishing, his venture with Sony that owns copyrights to 251 Beatles songs; and his 2,600-acre Neverland Valley Ranch outside Santa Barbara, Calif.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704588404575124023860735864.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I think it is safe to say that there's still around $300M in loans/debt that has to be paid. and as I said before I cannot see why any reasonable person would like to sabotage the estate from earning money.
 
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^^^ We also should not forget that there's probably interest on this debt. So the sooner the Estate pays it the better.
 
^^^ We also should not forget that there's probably interest on this debt. So the sooner the Estate pays it the better.

yes the interest has been reported to be relatively high between 15-20%. One of the articles above mention a 16% interest rate.

As you can see the $250M distribution deal with Sony is going to help the estate tremendously in the long run. People really should look to the bigger picture.
 
Thanks Ivy ....I only just stumbled on this post, for some reason i didnt get it in my email notifications.

I dont follow the news reports as I feel it is hard to know how accurate they are. You also dont know the 'full picture'.

Still I have to say that CNN report looked very thorough. Id have a guess its not far wrong.

One thing that wasnt clear to me was why he had to borrow 90 million in the late 90's?
and how it got up to 220 million by then! A real shock!

Im glad Michael is away from the pressures and responsibility of all this now, but boy what a mess to mop up now!

Thanks for your trouble to find all this info and post it for me Ivy! :)
 
People who say don't support this and that are really just helping to harm Michael's legacy.
 
I will support Michael's legacy by buying all the new stuffs! I don't care what Karen Fake said.
 
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