What are you? (Respectful answers only)

[GracielaPonchio]

Are you a Conservative, Progressist, Anarchist, ...?

Please, respect the constitutional and democratical right of the divergence.:wub: Bad behaviors are not allowed.




I'm a conservative because I love Jesus Christ, His moral and others cornerstones of the western civilization that are the Greece Democracy and Roman Law . As a conservative, I prefer small State and very loow taxes too. Oh! And I couldn't forget that I can't stand the lack of freedom speech.

 

[LindavG]

It's a bit hard to say because the political spectrum is different for every country. What is considered mainstream in one place (universal healthcare, LGBT rights) may be considered extremely conservative or progressive somewhere else. For example, Angela Merkel and Mike Pence are both Christian conservatives but they hardly share the same views on everything.

I don't think Christianity, Western civilisation and freedom of speech 'belong' to conservatives. To be honest, I'm not even sure what you mean by that so perhaps you could clarify further?

As for myself, I am neither conservative nor progressive. I am pretty much in the centre of the political spectrum, although in the US I would probably be considered a moderate Democrat. I don't have a fixed political party that I vote for, it really depends on the circumstances. There are certain things that are very important to me, such as a strong European Union, protection of the environment and respecting personal freedoms. What I mean by the latter is not just the obvious freedoms like freedom of speech or freedom of religion, but also the freedom to do things that others may find objectionable, such as prostitution or drugs or euthanasia, as long as it's consensual and not causing harm to others. Of course the government can (and should!) set guidelines and regulations to make sure these freedoms are not abused but there is no argument for outlawing them based on someone else's particular moral code. Now that may sound radically progressive to some people but where I'm from, that's a pretty mainstream view shared by many on the (secular) right and left.

On the economy, I support free trade and believe FTAs are generally mutually beneficial. I think a mixed economic system works the best, with the government intervening only when it is clearly in the public's interest (such as healthcare). I support a strong welfare state but would like to see stricter demands for people on benefits because too many are taking advantage of the system now (and I say that as someone with two parents on welfare, one I believe unjustified). Welfare should be seen as a last resort, not a permanent career choice.

As for migration, I see it as a positive thing in general but we shouldn't be ashamed of being more selective in who we let into the country. I don't think there is anything wrong with 'discriminating' based on age, income, education or cultural compatibility in that respect. Lots of nations around the world do this, including Canada, the US, Australia and Japan. That said, once an immigrant is allowed to settle here, we should do everything in our power to make him/her feel welcome and at home here. That means free language classes, support in finding a job or schooling, cultural immersion, etc.

I also have a natural aversion to populism of any kind so it would never occur to me to vote for Bernie Sanders or Trump for that matter

 

[CaptainEoLove85]

Registered as being unaffiliated (or "decline to state" as they call it now) with any party. Tired of the two-party system here tbh. My views tend towards the liberal side of things though.

 

[GracielaPonchio]

It's a bit hard to say because the political spectrum is different for every country. What is considered mainstream in one place (universal healthcare, LGBT rights) may be considered extremely conservative or progressive somewhere else. For example, Angela Merkel and Mike Pence are both Christian conservatives but they hardly share the same views on everything.

I don't think Christianity, Western civilisation and freedom of speech 'belong' to conservatives. To be honest, I'm not even sure what you mean by that so perhaps you could clarify further?

For example, my country today is, briefly:

-“Biggest”Left(PcorruptsonofafukingbitchT Party)= current guidelines: landless movement and land reform, bandits are the victms of the society, lgbt, feminism, big State...
- “Biggest” not anymore, thanks to Jesus "Right"(PSDB)= .... guidelines: pure bandits, lgbt, feminism, less State but giving hospital, schools etc to the poor (welfare state). Basically it’s social democratic, a variation of socialism.

And this is what the majority thinks that are the diferences in politics. And when they see the United States, as an example, they don’t undestand the Republican Party and see it as an extremist one.
But this is just a politicians’ strategy called Scissors Strategy that with the advent of gramcism, majority, in the 60’s until this days, they believe that this is the exactly the real political espetrum, buut with the coming of internet, “ordinary” people, as me, can find other points of view and know that this is not the real right or that there’s conservatism, libertarianism (that, honestly, I just found out this year :doh: yeah I know lol)

So, how I was saying in this example, this is pretty much what happens, not with the same political views but the same scheme of false opposition, in other countries with not so diversified political parties, academic points of view etc. I've learn that countries from the northwestern europe are majority social democracies, aren't they? (If they're not sooo like that, please, tell me - that would be really cool because it'd be one more proof that this schools are just made to indoctrinate -, I'm here to learn and that would be very helpful to me in my university LOL, but not just on it, which for me is the least important, but to create a better understanding of european contries which for me is enriching.)


About the next paraghaph, I didn't said that freedom of speech etc "belongs" to conservatives, it can be in other ideologies (anarchy etc) too but what I mean to say was that these and (other characteristics) combined create "the conservative world view", as I could say. If it’s not clear, and just if you want to know a little bit more, I can show you a guy, an amazing guy, that if you listen to him, you are going to be fascinated. Just text me on private.



Don't forget me, please! If you have any book, article, opinion, podcast, etc to recommend, pleeease do me! I would be deeply thankful since I love seeing diferent opinions of mine, as it only increases my intelectual baggage.

 

[GracielaPonchio]

Registered as being unaffiliated (or "decline to state" as they call it now) with any party. Tired of the two-party system here tbh. My views tend towards the liberal side of things though.

I don't have any party here too

 

[LindavG]

For example, my country today is, briefly:

-“Biggest”Left(PcorruptsonofafukingbitchT Party)= current guidelines: landless movement and land reform, bandits are the victms of the society, lgbt, feminism, big State...
- “Biggest” not anymore, thanks to Jesus "Right"(PSDB)= .... guidelines: pure bandits, lgbt, feminism, less State but giving hospital, schools etc to the poor (welfare state). Basically it’s social democratic, a variation of socialism.

This is why I said it's important to take into account the political spectrum of each country to know what it means to be on the 'left' or the 'right'. I'm aware that in terms of the economy, the mainstream left in Latin America is quite a bit more socialist than the mainstream left elsewhere in the West (I can't speak on politics in Asia or Africa as I don't know enough about it).

And this is what the majority thinks that are the diferences in politics. And when they see the United States, as an example, they don’t undestand the Republican Party and see it as an extremist one. But this is just a politicians’ strategy called Scissors Strategy that with the advent of gramcism, majority, in the 60’s until this days, they believe that this is the exactly the real political espetrum, buut with the coming of internet, “ordinary” people, as me, can find other points of view and know that this is not the real right or that there’s conservatism, libertarianism (that, honestly, I just found out this year :doh: yeah I know lol)

But the current Republican Party is considered extreme pretty much anywhere in the world. I wouldn't use them as a representative of what the 'real Right' looks like internationally.

So, how I was saying in this example, this is pretty much what happens, not with the same political views but the same scheme of false opposition, in other countries with not so diversified political parties, academic points of view etc. I've learn that countries from the northwestern europe are majority social democracies, aren't they? (If they're not sooo like that, please, tell me - that would be really cool because it'd be one more proof that this schools are just made to indoctrinate -, I'm here to learn and that would be very helpful to me in my university LOL, but not just on it, which for me is the least important, but to create a better understanding of european contries which for me is enriching.)

Well, there are quite a few differences between North/West European countries in terms of politics so I can't really generalise. It's true that Scandinavian countries are social democracies, meaning that people generally pay higher taxes and in return the government provides inexpensive public goods like healthcare, education (incl. University) and well-maintained infrastructure, as well as generous social benefits. That doesn't mean these countries are 'socialist' though, as I've often heard them described in the US. According to the Heritage Foundation, which is an American conservative think thank, all Scandinavian countries (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark) are in the top 25 on the economic freedom index. For comparison, your country Brazil ranks as #140. These are all very wealthy countries with low national debt and egalitarian societies so it is clear that their version of social democracy works for them. I don't believe the Scandinavian model can be applied universally, though.
*Yes, I know Iceland and Finland aren't technically part of Scandinavia, before someone points this out :cheeky:.

About the next paraghaph, I didn't said that freedom of speech etc "belongs" to conservatives, it can be in other ideologies (anarchy etc) too but what I mean to say was that these and (other characteristics) combined create "the conservative world view", as I could say. If it’s not clear, and just if you want to know a little bit more, I can show you a guy, an amazing guy, that if you listen to him, you are going to be fascinated. Just text me on private.

It's interesting how conservatives 'claim' freedom of speech these days because it was not originally a conservative value. It was the liberals and progressives of their time who pushed for the right to free speech to be critical of the ruling elites (government and religion) whereas conservatives wanted to maintain the status quo. Freedom of speech is a classical liberal principle that many conservatives now thankfully embrace.

You can mention the guy you're talking about and I could look him up myself? Or post what you think are his best arguments? I'm intrigued now

 

[KOPV]

I am me! I have only voted democrat so far but I can't say I am a particular party.. If a republican said things along the lines of things I believed in and I thought would better my life, I am all ears. I look at each Candidate as an individual - not as a party representative.

 

[GracielaPonchio]

This is why I said it's important to take into account the political spectrum of each country to know what it means to be on the 'left' or the 'right'. I'm aware that in terms of the economy, the mainstream left in Latin America is quite a bit more socialist than the mainstream left elsewhere in the West (I can't speak on politics in Asia or Africa as I don't know enough about it).



But the current Republican Party is considered extreme pretty much anywhere in the world. I wouldn't use them as a representative of what the 'real Right' looks like internationally.



Well, there are quite a few differences between North/West European countries in terms of politics so I can't really generalise. It's true that Scandinavian countries are social democracies, meaning that people generally pay higher taxes and in return the government provides inexpensive public goods like healthcare, education (incl. University) and well-maintained infrastructure, as well as generous social benefits. That doesn't mean these countries are 'socialist' though, as I've often heard them described in the US. According to the Heritage Foundation, which is an American conservative think thank, all Scandinavian countries (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark) are in the top 25 on the economic freedom index. For comparison, your country Brazil ranks as #140. These are all very wealthy countries with low national debt and egalitarian societies so it is clear that their version of social democracy works for them. I don't believe the Scandinavian model can be applied universally, though.
*Yes, I know Iceland and Finland aren't technically part of Scandinavia, before someone points this out :cheeky:.



It's interesting how conservatives 'claim' freedom of speech these days because it was not originally a conservative value. It was the liberals and progressives of their time who pushed for the right to free speech to be critical of the ruling elites (government and religion) whereas conservatives wanted to maintain the status quo. Freedom of speech is a classical liberal principle that many conservatives now thankfully embrace.

You can mention the guy you're talking about and I could look him up myself? Or post what you think are his best arguments? I'm intrigued now

It's clear that we have different opinions, which is completely normal and healthy, and if I state, for exemple, sth related to the first paragraph, you will not agree with me, which, again, it's fine, and we are going to stay here forever. And that's not my objective. When I was writing this thread, I was just imagining a sth fun where people could say what they belive, without being jugded (as I wrote respectful answeres only) and, also, to see different points of view by myself, what I love, not to debate with them regarding to the things I don't agree, which was going to be a loong and boring thing, since, mostly, we all have different positions, even some people that have the same ideologies, so debate right now and in here? it's really not what I want, since i'm posting in a not political forum, so, just to reinforce, I create this topic as a fun thing, and if you pay attention to my first post, as a proof of what I'm saying, I wrote it in a casual way.
So I'm really sorry if I dont unravel all the topics that you brought to. Don't be sad with me ash:, but today all I want to do is to study for my test, visit my grandma and see Michael's pretty eyes.. That's my mood today ^_^

I will just say that, my country, my beautiful ass country lol, acording to UN, is the 79th in HDI, which bring us to the group of the High Developed Contries, and we are just like that because of our 20 years of left in power, soo imagine with a real "right" power party, what we wouldn't be, since we are one of the richiest countries (top 10), with a increadible potencial regarding to its population and size, natural, intelectual, tecnological, industrial ... resources.

You claimed that this fredoms we see today was brought buy liberals in XVI, but a guy from XII, with conservative principles, already said that.


Oh, the guy I said in my second post is Olavo de Carvalho, I think there is an interview in English on youtube. That's amazing :yes: