The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Thanks for the detailed breakdown @ChanceToDance

I like the raw funkiness of some of the Loren tracks, but on the whole they do feel a bit dated and at times a bit flat. I think if they came out in 1990 a few may have done well on the charts but there's not much there that's groundbreaking or with any staying power. I do love how free Mike sounds on the tracks though, he's experimenting on them

This has probably been mentioned before, but isn't The Verdict a Janet demo called Work? I'm sure it didn't make the Rhythm Nation album, I think John Cameron mentioned it one of his Janet docs?

Fake? Or it's real?
I really like the demo, but this version has just had all the life sucked out of it. Neff U had a thankless job and the strings are a nice touch, but on the whole I see why this version was left in the vault.
 
Thanks for the detailed breakdown @ChanceToDance

I like the raw funkiness of some of the Loren tracks, but on the whole they do feel a bit dated and at times a bit flat. I think if they came out in 1990 a few may have done well on the charts but there's not much there that's groundbreaking or with any staying power. I do love how free Mike sounds on the tracks though, he's experimenting on them

This has probably been mentioned before, but isn't The Verdict a Janet demo called Work? I'm sure it didn't make the Rhythm Nation album, I think John Cameron mentioned it one of his Janet docs?


I really like the demo, but this version has just had all the life sucked out of it. Neff U had a thankless job and the strings are a nice touch, but on the whole I see why this version was left in the vault.
IMO, 2010 version is better than original one. I like it's new modern touch. In case of HT - yes, TR's version was better. But this TYLA I like. Well I like both versions of TYLA, 2010 just a little bit better (due to modern sounds)
 
The Fandom wiki has all that info and it's accurate for the most part. Whoever cleaned up that place did a good job at it because it was filled with misleading trash before.
I believe SirRobowisan11 is behind all those edits. He does an awfully great job at keeping the wiki alive. Always when I passed by there was a lot of unreferenced or invented nonsense. I have created an account there as well (pepik778) and sometimes try to add some of the missing stuff or cleanup the general formatting or incorrect info.
 
Wow, I completely missed this tweet. Apologies for the mis-correction!

I can't believe the leak is authentic. No wonder the song hasn't been released yet—If that's all the Estate has to work with, that's leagues worse than anything on Thriller 40 or XSCAPE.
It really took you this long to deduce that it's real? It was kinda obvious from the jump.
 
Yeah I don't feel the thrill for those songs either, even Bryan's best songs are no higher than a 7/10 imo. the only song I was interested in hearing was Seven Digits but that interest quickly went away after we got more snippets and it gave the impression that it's a dull song with a weak melody.

I don't think I'd be disappointed if those tracks made their way to a Dangerous re-issue though, some of those tracks aren't so bad to the point they'd feel like a waste of time if you listened to them but they hit that right amount of mediocrity. The Estate has already put out worse songs after all. looking at you WALWTG
 
Bryan Lorens work is some of the worst really dont care about these songs
It's not bad, just very dated. Would not fit very well in the modern age. Even Bryan's newest music sounds like an old guy trying to be hip. Teddy on the other hand, knew of Michael's vision, and conducted it.
 
It's not bad, just very dated. Would not fit very well in the modern age. Even Bryan's newest music sounds like an old guy trying to be hip. Teddy on the other hand, knew of Michael's vision, and conducted it.

It's not about being dated its just bad. The synthesisters on some of MJs songs all sound dated now but people listen because their good songs
 
Objectively, his style just sounds like generic NJS. Even Michael's innate talents couldn't save it. So you're right.
 
Objectively, his style just sounds like generic NJS.
Even the worst New Jack Swing track sounds more hardhitting and appealing than Loren's brand. It's less "new jack swing" and more "half-baked soundtrack to an equally half-baked Film Roman cartoon."
 
Even the worst New Jack Swing track sounds more hardhitting and appealing than Loren's brand. It's less "new jack swing" and more "half-baked soundtrack to an equally half-baked Film Roman cartoon."
Hey man, Superfly Sister and Mind Is The Magic is fire. Everything else is mid. Even for Bryan's standards.
 
I think the Bryan Loren songs should still be released on a dangerous reissue. I think it is a little respectless to Michael, as he spent much time in the songs and liked them, at least of them at least. The estate could sell is as a kind 'what if' o 'alternate Dangerous'.
 
I think the Bryan Loren songs should still be released on a dangerous reissue. I think it is a little respectless to Michael, as he spent much time in the songs and liked them, at least of them at least. The estate could sell is as a kind 'what if' o 'alternate Dangerous'.
Yeah. Dangerous is always getting the short end of the stick. No Dangerous Bonus Cuts, No Dangerous 30. It's always Thriller and Bad.
 
although there should be way better tracks than Loren's stuff lying around.
Thats correct, but categorically excluding vocally finished songs that may be not the very good songs feels just wrong. For a Dangerous reissue they are good enough for sure.
 
Thats correct, but categorically excluding vocally finished songs that may be not the very good songs feels just wrong. For a Dangerous reissue they are good enough for sure.
For a reissue? Yeah. They released DBMR on Bad 25, and it's very incomplete. So, i'd say they're good enough. As far as i know, everything that's vocally complete from Loren's catalogue has basically already leaked/released.
 
Even the worst New Jack Swing track sounds more hardhitting and appealing than Loren's brand. It's less "new jack swing" and more "half-baked soundtrack to an equally half-baked Film Roman cartoon."
There isn't a single Loren song I like less than Slave to The Rhythm's original. That's a flavorless kinda dull song. Incredible vocals though, great.
 
There isn't a single Loren song I like less than Slave to The Rhythm's original. That's a flavorless kinda dull song. Incredible vocals though, great.
Slave To The Rhythm is....something. No, like, that's actually all it is. Just something. Something that probably should've remained vaulted.
 
There isn't a single Loren song I like less than Slave to The Rhythm's original. That's a flavorless kinda dull song. Incredible vocals though, great.
Slave To The Rhythm is....something. No, like, that's actually all it is. Just something. Something that probably should've remained vaulted.
I love the vocal perfomance, I like the lyrics and the theme of the them, but the production is just boring. I think it is the song with the greatest quality level different between vocals and instrumentsation/production of MJ
 
Slave To The Rhythm is....something. No, like, that's actually all it is. Just something. Something that probably should've remained vaulted.
Well no because it's good to know it can only go up really. It is an interesting time capsule piece, very relevant and symbolic of the process of production.
 
To satisfy you, Mind is the magic, Superfly sister and slave to the rhythm have their moments but arent really standouts in mjs catalogue and the rest of it is quite forgettable. Bryan has a nice voice but his production and the songs are just nothing special
 
To satisfy you, Mind is the magic, Superfly sister and slave to the rhythm have their moments but arent really standouts in mjs catalogue and the rest of it is quite forgettable. Bryan has a nice voice but his production and the songs are just nothing special
Well very few of these vault songs are "special". People say most of MJs career post Thriller is "nothing special". That's not the right metric for this. In most cases it is as simple as "did he sing it from top to bottom" and if not, does it represent MJ working on his craft to the right degree?

In a lot of cases, they're either going to just strip away the beats and redo the song anyway, or it's going on a collection of music that the larger public won't pay attention to and most fans will stop talking about after a week and also criticize anyway, so.

It would just be nice to get, Something right now, and there is a fun novelty when it is actually "Chart Worthy"
 
To satisfy you, Mind is the magic, Superfly sister and slave to the rhythm have their moments but arent really standouts in mjs catalogue and the rest of it is quite forgettable. Bryan has a nice voice but his production and the songs are just nothing special
Why did MJ choose to work with Bryan Loren in the first place?

Teddy Riley worked on 2300 Jackson Street, I'm surprised MJ didn't try to get him to work on Decade/Dangerous at that point.
 
I love the vocal perfomance, I like the lyrics and the theme of the them, but the production is just boring. I think it is the song with the greatest quality level different between vocals and instrumentsation/production of MJ
What makes this worse is that Babyface and L.A. Reid have done much better for artists who were lesser than MJ (Bobby Brown comes to mind), and Babyface has made some fine tracks for (Why, Willing and Waiting) and with (On The Line) Michael later down the line. Compared to even those tracks, Slave strikes me as a fourth-rate outtake from B. Brown's Don't Be Cruel.

It's disappointing how they didn't bring their A-game, especially since it was recorded after Teddy Riley joined the project. With his stable of tracks, Riley proved that, yes, lesser producers like them can improve their craft with Michael around, a lesson Babyface and L.A. Reid should've taken cues from.

The only song that reaches Slave's level of mediocrity is You Are My Life.
 
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