Latest on MJJC

Social Issues: Health Care Reform, the Needy, War etc.

Sdeidjs

Proud Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,805
Points
0
Location
Ohio



The President's Plan for Health Reform

Suzanne --

I just finished laying out my plan for health reform at a joint session of Congress. Now, I'm writing directly to you because what happens next is critical -- and I need your help.

Change this big will not happen because I ask for it. It can only come when the nation demands it. Congress knows where I stand. Now they need to hear from you.

Add your voice: Ask your representatives to support my plan for real health reform in 2009.

The heart of my plan is simple: bring stability and security to Americans who already have health insurance, guarantee affordable coverage for those who don't, and rein in the cost of health care.

Tonight, I offered a specific plan for how to make it happen. I incorporated the best ideas from Democrats and Republicans to create a plan that's bold, practical, and represents the broad consensus of the American people.

We've come closer to real health reform in the last few months than we have in the last 60 years. But those who profit from the status quo -- and those who put partisan advantage above all else -- will fight us every inch of the way.

We do not seek that fight, but we will not shrink from it. The stakes are too high to let scare tactics cloud the debate, or to allow partisan bickering to block the path. Your voice, right now, is essential.

See my full plan and call on your representatives to support it:

http://my.barackobama.com/SupportReform

Ours is not the first generation to understand the dire need for health reform. And I am not the first president to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last.

Thank you,

President Barack Obama



​


:angel:We Are The World...Keep Helping To Heal The World...Education IS The Key~~~
 
Last edited:
Obviously health care needs to be reformed in the US. It needs to be reformed everywhere. But I'm not convinced Obama's solution is the right one. A public option could help the situation in the US, but I wouldn't call it reform.

I think the biggest problem with health care is this idea of third party insurance. I don't care if it's a private company running my health care plan or the government. Either way, I'm not in control. Insurance also naturally drives costs up. If everything is covered then you don't care how much something costs and neither does your doctor. So you'll always get the most expensive treatment, the most expensive medication, even if a cheaper alternative would work.

However, if you had to pay for it yourself, then you'd shop around for the best and most affordable treatment and this would create massive competition in the medical industry. Competition is a good thing because it means providers are forced to provide better quality services for lower costs. So I'd like to move towards a health care system where we are more responsible for our own health and had to pay for our own health care.

In that type of system, costs would go way down because as I explained, that's what happens in a competitive market. Look at areas of the medical industry that insurance companies usually don't cover. Laser eye surgery, plastic surgery. In these areas, costs have gone down each year. I also think people would be much healthier because they know if they become sick they will have to pay for their own health care. It wont be covered by a third party. So we'll be a fitter, healthier, happier people. But what about those who couldn't afford treatment, even if the treatment is low cost. That's the problem.

Well, you would hope that there's enough good people in the world with enough money to provide charitable health care to the needy who get sick. That used to happen a lot before the introduction of health insurance companies. Churches used to run hospitals for the poor. But even in profitable hospitals that charged for visits, someone without any money could be treated. The reason people are denied treatment at hospitals now is because the insurance company rings up and tells them not to give that person treatment. Without insurance companies it would be up to the doctors and whoever runs the hospital. Usually, people get into that profession because they want to help people. So it's going to be a really heartless doctor who turns away a dying person because they have no money. They could work something out. Without bureaucracy involved, the doctors would be free to work out their own payment plans with the patients.

So that would be my reform. I'd try to move towards a free-market-based health care system. The idea is to remove all bureaucracy and government, but there could be a role government could play if people thought it was really needed. In my country and I'm sure many countries around the world, the government makes everyone pay into a superannuation fund for themselves. A few dollars every week or whatever. Then when they hit retirement age (I think it's about 60-65) they can get that money back. The idea is that they are forced to save up for their retirement. I usually don't like the government forcing people to do anything with their money (that includes paying taxes). But in this case I'm not completely against it because they are giving people back their own money later in life instead of giving them tax dollars to help them through their retirement years. So I could support a similar plan for health care. A health savings plan where a few dollars is taken out of peoples' paycheques each week so that when something catastrophic happens to them health-wise, they can reach into their health savings fund and pay for it. In fact, that could be a good way of transitioning from this system into a free-market-based system where the individual is responsible for their own health care.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that I hope Obama's health care bill is defeated in congress because if it is, then the Americans have a real chance at real health care reform. It's not that I'm 100% against Obama's plan. I just think it will delay real reform. And if America can truly reform their system so that it works well without the need for government interference, then the rest of the world can follow suit. Because America doesn't have government run health care yet, it's a great place to experiment with different health care solutions.
 
Bob George said:
Obviously health care needs to be reformed in the US. It needs to be reformed everywhere. But I'm not convinced Obama's solution is the right one. A public option could help the situation in the US, but I wouldn't call it reform.

I think the biggest problem with health care is this idea of third party insurance. I don't care if it's a private company running my health care plan or the government. Either way, I'm not in control. Insurance also naturally drives costs up. If everything is covered then you don't care how much something costs and neither does your doctor. So you'll always get the most expensive treatment, the most expensive medication, even if a cheaper alternative would work.

However, if you had to pay for it yourself, then you'd shop around for the best and most affordable treatment and this would create massive competition in the medical industry. Competition is a good thing because it means providers are forced to provide better quality services for lower costs. So I'd like to move towards a health care system where we are more responsible for our own health and had to pay for our own health care.

In that type of system, costs would go way down because as I explained, that's what happens in a competitive market. Look at areas of the medical industry that insurance companies usually don't cover. Laser eye surgery, plastic surgery. In these areas, costs have gone down each year. I also think people would be much healthier because they know if they become sick they will have to pay for their own health care. It wont be covered by a third party. So we'll be a fitter, healthier, happier people. But what about those who couldn't afford treatment, even if the treatment is low cost. That's the problem.

Well, you would hope that there's enough good people in the world with enough money to provide charitable health care to the needy who get sick. That used to happen a lot before the introduction of health insurance companies. Churches used to run hospitals for the poor. But even in profitable hospitals that charged for visits, someone without any money could be treated. The reason people are denied treatment at hospitals now is because the insurance company rings up and tells them not to give that person treatment. Without insurance companies it would be up to the doctors and whoever runs the hospital. Usually, people get into that profession because they want to help people. So it's going to be a really heartless doctor who turns away a dying person because they have no money. They could work something out. Without bureaucracy involved, the doctors would be free to work out their own payment plans with the patients.

So that would be my reform. I'd try to move towards a free-market-based health care system. The idea is to remove all bureaucracy and government, but there could be a role government could play if people thought it was really needed. In my country and I'm sure many countries around the world, the government makes everyone pay into a superannuation fund for themselves. A few dollars every week or whatever. Then when they hit retirement age (I think it's about 60-65) they can get that money back. The idea is that they are forced to save up for their retirement. I usually don't like the government forcing people to do anything with their money (that includes paying taxes). But in this case I'm not completely against it because they are giving people back their own money later in life instead of giving them tax dollars to help them through their retirement years. So I could support a similar plan for health care. A health savings plan where a few dollars is taken out of peoples' paycheques each week so that when something catastrophic happens to them health-wise, they can reach into their health savings fund and pay for it. In fact, that could be a good way of transitioning from this system into a free-market-based system where the individual is responsible for their own health care.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that I hope Obama's health care bill is defeated in congress because if it is, then the Americans have a real chance at real health care reform. It's not that I'm 100% against Obama's plan. I just think it will delay real reform. And if America can truly reform their system so that it works well without the need for government interference, then the rest of the world can follow suit. Because America doesn't have government run health care yet, it's a great place to experiment with different health care solutions.
Click to expand...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Response to Susie's Original Post:

Originally Posted by Mr. George [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Obviously health care needs to be reformed in the US. It needs to be reformed everywhere. But I'm not convinced Obama's solution is the right one. A public option could help the situation in the US, but I wouldn't call it reform.

I think the biggest problem with health care is this idea of third party insurance. I don't care if it's a private company running my health care plan or the government. Either way, I'm not in control. Insurance also naturally drives costs up. If everything is covered then you don't care how much something costs and neither does your doctor. So you'll always get the most expensive treatment, the most expensive medication, even if a cheaper alternative would work.

However, if you had to pay for it yourself, then you'd shop around for the best and most affordable treatment and this would create massive competition in the medical industry. Competition is a good thing because it means providers are forced to provide better quality services for lower costs. So I'd like to move towards a health care system where we are more responsible for our own health and had to pay for our own health care.

In that type of system, costs would go way down because as I explained, that's what happens in a competitive market. Look at areas of the medical industry that insurance companies usually don't cover. Laser eye surgery, plastic surgery. In these areas, costs have gone down each year. I also think people would be much healthier because they know if they become sick they will have to pay for their own health care. It wont be covered by a third party. So we'll be a fitter, healthier, happier people. But what about those who couldn't afford treatment, even if the treatment is low cost. That's the problem.

Well, you would hope that there's enough good people in the world with enough money to provide charitable health care to the needy who get sick. That used to happen a lot before the introduction of health insurance companies. Churches used to run hospitals for the poor. But even in profitable hospitals that charged for visits, someone without any money could be treated. The reason people are denied treatment at hospitals now is because the insurance company rings up and tells them not to give that person treatment. Without insurance companies it would be up to the doctors and whoever runs the hospital. Usually, people get into that profession because they want to help people. So it's going to be a really heartless doctor who turns away a dying person because they have no money. They could work something out. Without bureaucracy involved, the doctors would be free to work out their own payment plans with the patients.

So that would be my reform. I'd try to move towards a free-market-based health care system. The idea is to remove all bureaucracy and government, but there could be a role government could play if people thought it was really needed. In my country and I'm sure many countries around the world, the government makes everyone pay into a superannuation fund for themselves. A few dollars every week or whatever. Then when they hit retirement age (I think it's about 60-65) they can get that money back. The idea is that they are forced to save up for their retirement. I usually don't like the government forcing people to do anything with their money (that includes paying taxes). But in this case I'm not completely against it because they are giving people back their own money later in life instead of giving them tax dollars to help them through their retirement years. So I could support a similar plan for health care. A health savings plan where a few dollars is taken out of peoples' paycheques each week so that when something catastrophic happens to them health-wise, they can reach into their health savings fund and pay for it. In fact, that could be a good way of transitioning from this system into a free-market-based system where the individual is responsible for their own health care.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that I hope Obama's health care bill is defeated in congress because if it is, then the Americans have a real chance at real health care reform. It's not that I'm 100% against Obama's plan. I just think it will delay real reform. And if America can truly reform their system so that it works well without the need for government interference, then the rest of the world can follow suit. Because America doesn't have government run health care yet, it's a great place to experiment with different health care solutions.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Impressive...I have always enjoyed reading your most reflective thoughts.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Dear Mr.George:
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Impressive...I have always enjoyed reading your most reflective thoughts.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nothing wrong with a Capitalist Society (competition is good)

However, The problem with the current United States Health Care is that the basic foundation of what the Health Care System originally derived from "assisting others who "need" medical care"... to a[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]n enormous conglomerate of the "business" pharmaceutical[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], medical [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]field industry, and insurance companies...!

Unfortunately, It has become all about the $$$ rather than giving human beings "affordable" health care...Many pay high premiums, high deductible rates, co-pays for office visits and prescriptions just to have some sort of health insurance coverage.

For the majority, not all; the current United States medical insurance policies are geared more for catastrophic issues than basic medical care.

Doctors get kick backs (illegal but it [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]does happen example: vacations, golf outings etc.) for promoting so called "new and or improved medication (s)" [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]that are approved through the Food and Drug Administration.

If we have insurance, the doctors (across the board) and not in every case, give us the more expensive prescriptions when in FACT the older or what is called now the generic medication would work just as well.

Or how about when one is very fortunate to have medical insurance the doctor office "always ask" if you have insurance and the doctors charge MORE money for an office visit...than for those who don't have insurance...same happens with in and out patient surgeries, testing, [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]not to mention all the lobbyist's on Capitol Hill...so on and so forth...I could go on but I think you get the picture.

I lost my medical insurance (through a devastating job loss) in 2005...to date my current employer does not offer medical insurance and there is no way I could afford it like soo many on my own...

I have been on both sides of the spectrum...either way its NOT pretty..!

I do not agree with all of President Obama's Health Care initiatives, keep in mind nobody likes change, and yes the plan DOES NEED to be tweaked, come to some sort of compromise, [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]come to some sort an agreement to satisfy the masses...

Certainly with all the extremely intelligent individuals we as the citizens [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]of the United States have elected into office they c[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ould come up with a work[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]able, fair, cost effective Health Care Plan that will help all who need it..!


:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~ [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ERgyqRQ88w

Heal The World~~~"Education is the Key"

Sincerely,
Susie
Cleveland Rocks ;) [/FONT]
 
Last edited:
Here's why health insurance, whether government run or business run, is a bad thing...

There are four different ways to spend money.

1) You spend your own money on yourself. In this case you tend to try to get the best possible product for the best possible price. This is the best way to spend money because you really get your money's worth.

2) You spend your own money on someone else. This is like buying someone a gift. In this case you tend to try to spend as little as possible and you aren't as concerned with getting the best possible product for the best possible price.

3) You spend someone else's money on yourself. In this case you will try to get yourself something nice and you don't really care how much it costs because it's not your money.

4) You spend someone else's money on someone else. This is the worst way to spend money. You don't care how much you spend because it's not your money, and you don't care how good whatever it is your buying is because it's not yours. You end up spending a lot of money and not having much to show for it.

Number 4 is how government spends money. It's not their money they're spending. They take it from the citizens through taxation. And they aren't spending it on themselves. So government ends up spending a lot and not having much to show for it.

Insurance is the same principle. They pool together all their clients' money and then spend on their clients. They are spending other people's money on other people. They only difference is that they don't just take other people's money like government does, they have to earn it by providing better goods and services than their competitors.

So health insurance, even when provided by private business, is a bad thing IMO. But when provided by government it's much worse because they don't have to earn the money they spend, they just take it. Which isn't fair competition for the private insurance companies. You'll hear the argument that a public option will be good competition for private insurance companies. No, it'll be a total government monopoly that even the best and brightest businessmen can't compete with. Government has the advantage of just being able to take money and spend it. Business has to earn it. Government also has the advantage of being able to make up their own rules which business then has to abide by.
 
HILLARY WILL SPEAK AT OUR FIRST POLICY CONFERENCE; WILL YOU BE THERE?

We're so excited that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will address our first Public Policy Conference on Friday, November 6, in Washington D.C.

Plus: we'll hear from Congressman Barney Frank, on the economy (because he'd rather talk to us than the dining room table!); the latest word from the White House on health care reform; Dee Dee Myers and Dana Perino on the View from the Press Room; panels on women's rights around the world and the climate change imperative; and workshops on message mastery and the power of new social networks.

Click here to join us for this exciting day!

HEALTH CARE REFORM MOVES FORWARD IN CONGRESS - BUT THERE'S HARD WORK AHEAD

If we need reminding why this is so important:

The American economy lost 263,000 jobs in September - far more than expected - and the unemployment rate rose to 9.8 percent, the government reported on Friday, dimming prospects of any meaningful job growth by the end of the year.
- The New York Times, 10/2/09

Number of Americans who die in the United States every year for lack of good care: 48,789
Source: Harvard School of Public Health Study, 9/17/09

In this difficult economic climate, people lose access to health insurance on the job - and the ability to get insurance coverage on their own. Now, with versions of health care legislation passing every relevant committee in Congress, we have the opportunity to get real reform this year: ensuring access to quality affordable health care for every American.

We know that the forces opposed to reform are working - and shouting. It's up to us to make sure our voices are heard. Have you talked to your members of Congress lately?

And while you're talking: Some anti-choice members of Congress are trying to use health care reform to deny women access to full reproductive care. Remind them that we don't intend to go backward:

Percentage of private health care plans that currently include full reproductive health coverage: 80%
Percentage that would be able to offer reproductive health care if anti-abortion amendment is adopted in health care reform: 0%
Number of women who would lose full health care coverage: Millions

HEAR MORE ABOUT HEALTH CARE AT OUR POLICY CONFERENCE - CLICK HERE!

HILLARY PRESIDES AT MEETING OF UN SECURITY COUNCIL DEVOTED TO ENDING VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

Last week, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton presided over the UN Security Council; the first ever to consider "Women and Peace and Security":

"When I was in the Democratic Republic of Congo, I was told of an old proverb that says 'No matter how long the night, the day is sure to come.' Well, I hope our work today and every day going forward will hasten the time when thousands of women around the world will be able to feel comfortable in walking the streets of their cities and villages freely again - to work outside their homes, collect firewood and water without fear, play with their children, spend time with their husbands, enjoy all the blessings of life in freedom, peace, and security.."

- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, 9/30/09

See a video clip of Hillary at the Security Council here:

​


This historic Security Council session, led by Secretary Clinton, adopted United Nations Resolution 1888, recognizing the serious problem of violence against women in war zones, including rape as an instrument of war, and identified action steps that should be taken by the UN and by nation states, including appointment of a special representative to lead efforts to end sexual violence; and full use of the rule of law to prevent violence, build accountability and punish violators.

Hillary also called on the UN to integrate more women in peacekeeping and law informant forces and include protection of women and children in peacekeeping mandates; and she urged member states to ensure that their foreign assistance programs include protection from sexual violence in their foreign assistance programs.

For a longer address by Hillary to United Nations on Violence Against Girls, click here.

"We must also recognize that ending conflicts outright is the most certain path to ending sexual violence in conflict." Hillary said. "So pursuing peace and successful post-conflict transitions should be our highest priority."

WOMEN'S RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS AT OUR POLICY CONFERENCE: CLICK HERE

THE LAST WORD
When Senator Jon Kyl tried to oppose health care reform by saying he didn't need maternity care, Senator Debbie Stabenow had the perfect response: "I think your mom probably did."
See it for yourself:

​


Sincerely,
sig_ann.gif

Ann F. Lewis ​
 
Bob George said:
Here's why health insurance, whether government run or business run, is a bad thing...

There are four different ways to spend money.

1) You spend your own money on yourself. In this case you tend to try to get the best possible product for the best possible price. This is the best way to spend money because you really get your money's worth.

2) You spend your own money on someone else. This is like buying someone a gift. In this case you tend to try to spend as little as possible and you aren't as concerned with getting the best possible product for the best possible price.

3) You spend someone else's money on yourself. In this case you will try to get yourself something nice and you don't really care how much it costs because it's not your money.

4) You spend someone else's money on someone else. This is the worst way to spend money. You don't care how much you spend because it's not your money, and you don't care how good whatever it is your buying is because it's not yours. You end up spending a lot of money and not having much to show for it.

Number 4 is how government spends money. It's not their money they're spending. They take it from the citizens through taxation. And they aren't spending it on themselves. So government ends up spending a lot and not having much to show for it.

Insurance is the same principle. They pool together all their clients' money and then spend on their clients. They are spending other people's money on other people. They only difference is that they don't just take other people's money like government does, they have to earn it by providing better goods and services than their competitors.

So health insurance, even when provided by private business, is a bad thing IMO. But when provided by government it's much worse because they don't have to earn the money they spend, they just take it. Which isn't fair competition for the private insurance companies. You'll hear the argument that a public option will be good competition for private insurance companies. No, it'll be a total government monopoly that even the best and brightest businessmen can't compete with. Government has the advantage of just being able to take money and spend it. Business has to earn it. Government also has the advantage of being able to make up their own rules which business then has to abide by.
Click to expand...

I completely understand what your saying...However, their needs to be some sort of balance for ALL to be able to afford heath care...

I believe in the long run IF the solutions are implemented correctly and efficiently, in the long run the United Sates will ultimately benefit...

Now that we know what issues we face what do you think the solution (s) could be..?

:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top