Snapshot: Michael Jackson Autopsy Doctor Talks to Oswego Students

[Moonwalker.Fan]

http://oswego.patch.com/articles/snapshot-michael-jackson-autopsy-doctor-talks-to-oswego-students

A welcome back treat recently for many Oswego students and faculty involved a visit from renowned Los Angeles pathologist Dr. Christopher Rogers.

Dr. Rogers, is tied to our community through his relationship to me, his sister, Beth Krane, and my family, Scott and our three boys. Many of the students were puzzled by who this man was until another name was mentioned—Michael Jackson.


While here Dr. Rogers was kind enough to spend some time at Churchill Elementary and Oswego High schools discussing the human body with the third grade students. Eli Krane, his nephew, had the honor of introducing him as his, "famous uncle."
The students seemed to enjoy his presentation about how to identify a person using just the skeleton, but the best part was the questions from the audience. In great humor Dr. Rogers attempted to answer all the questions, keeping the answers to a thrid-grade level, including what happens to the eye when you die, and listening to the stories of collar bones getting broken.
Dr. Rogers was also invited by Mr. Keener to speak to the forensic classes at OHS. A full day of riveting information about forensic pathology as well as introducing students to other lines of forensic opportunities was delivered through information and stories.


Of course the highlight for all the students at OHS was in the last 10 minutes when he discussed the Michael Jackson case. Dr. Rogers, who performed an autopsy on Jackson and testified at the Conrad Murray trial, brought the students into the home of the pop star with all its elaborate halls and extremely large rooms.

He explained the process which was in place to move Michael Jackson from his home to a nearby hospital and then having the body flown to the coroner's office to reduce the media and fan frenzy that had already erupted in the streets. Next was the protocol that required a strict lockdown of the facility, the room, and who would be allowed to handle the case.



The Chief Coroner, the Deputy Coroner (Dr. Rogers), and two other pathology interns. No cameras. No cell phones. No surveillance video. Pictures were taken for trials and documentation purposes and locked carefully into a vault. As Dr. Rogers stated, "the autopsy photos are going for $6.5 million dollars, and I'd like to note that I am still driving a Toyota from 2008."

Special thanks to Beth Krane for providing this photo and article.

 

[Science Freak]

"the autopsy photos are going for $6.5 million dollars, and I'd like to note that I am still driving a Toyota from 2008."

Hmm okaaayyyy!!
Wth, everything for money?
Explain please... somebody??

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

"the autopsy photos are going for $6.5 million dollars, and I'd like to note that I am still driving a Toyota from 2008."

Hmm okaaayyyy!!
Wth, everything for money?
Explain please... somebody??

I'm sure he was approached a number of times to 'help' leak photos. So I am glad he's stating that he STILL is driving his 2008 Toyota.

Of course people would be ready to pay obscene amounts of money for the pictures- he's stating reality.

 

[twinklEE]

if those pictures ever leak, omg Michael's last ounce of dignity would be taken from him. I hope I'll never have to witness the day those pics leak.

 

[Ashtanga]

:fear:

 

[8701girl]

I dont understand why he had to talk bout the value of those pic, as im sure that is not what that class was meant to be about

 

[Rhilo]

Me neither, and I hope he or anyone with access to the photos doesn't cave into the offers. Nobody deserves to have their dead naked body exposed to the public, and it nearly came to that at the trial. It's like people don't see Michael as a human being

 

[8701girl]

It's like people don't see Michael as a human being

Most of the general public dont

 

[Severus Snape]

"the autopsy photos are going for $6.5 million dollars, and I'd like to note that I am still driving a Toyota from 2008."

Hmm okaaayyyy!!
Wth, everything for money?
Explain please... somebody??

I think what he's trying to say is that he would think it unethical to sell autopsy photos, and even though he may have been approached with tempting offers in the millions to disclose them, he chose not to do so, hence the 2008 Toyota reference (Toyotas are sh-tty cars and are not considered luxury vehicles by any stretch of the imagination--they're more like the proletariat car, and anything worse would probably come with a monthly pass/token). Thus, if he had taken up the offer, he'd be driving a Mercedes-Benz, or another awesome car, and not a dinky Toyota.

I dont understand why he had to talk bout the value of those pic, as im sure that is not what that class was meant to be about

Well, it is part of what the class was about. It's a lesson in ethics and the real world--he was talking about a celebrity death he had to deal with as a part of his career, and he'd be doing the kids a disservice if he did not mention how sick some people are and the ethical dangers one can easily be sucked into with promises of money and luxury, and that no one is immune--even people with traditionally unglamourous jobs like him. Too bad Conrad Murray wasn't sitting in on this class.

The issue of ethics is of paramount importance and integral to the medical profession, and that is why one doctor is lecturing third graders about his profession and the other is sitting in jail eating cheese sandwiches.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

I dont understand why he had to talk bout the value of those pic, as im sure that is not what that class was meant to be about

I think there can be purpose in mentioning that. As Snape just mentioned- that's precisely what Murray saw: $$$$s.
A lot of people cannot resist $$$$s.

3rd graders are curious- maybe Michael even has 2 or 3 fans in that class already? Maybe there was a need to talk about it. Children are not stupid, 3rd also have their own thoughts on things already.

Michael was part of Dr. Rogers life as a coroner- and I'm sure that some of the surrounding circumstances a lot to deal with. He's human, people are human. To have to barricade a room in this manner etc- they were trying to keep things professional and dignified. I recall those days being chaotic and frantic- they had to act professionally. People are human beings and I can only imagine with what kind of barrage of requests and plain out harassment they had to deal with. Add the trial- most of us here sit anonymously behind a screen- his name and image went around the world as the man who performed the autopsy of Michael Jackson. That's a lot of pressure and I'm sure he felt every ounce of the responsibility that came along with that. Not only that- he had to talk about it at length at a trial. Most people would need a Valium, or two to get through that kind of cross exam. I remember Dr. Rogers specifically. If someone was unique there, it was him. You didn't hurry Dr. Rogers in his answers.

I find it normal for a human being to acknowledge that pressure and to acknowledge the reality- namely that people are willing to pay such obscene sums. It simply illustrates what $$$$s can do to people. It is not indecent of Dr. Rogers to mention that people are willing to pay the see the deceased Michael- it is indecent that people are willing to pay that much- THAT is the indecent part.

As a coroner Dr. Rogers gets the unceremonious task to determine what kind of sometimes very ugly circumstances contributed to the death of a human being- I think it's great that someone who deals with so much gruesomeness is willing to go out into the world and tell a couple of 3rd graders that despite all the gruesomeness there's more decency in people than just the hunt for $$$$s.

People like Dr. Shafer and Dr. Rogers (death is part of life) are doing collaborative karmic damage control after one of their own carelessly abused a profession that many considered sacred.

 

[ivy]

Today I was with college students and discussing ethics and one of the students said "I'll be a new graduate / new employee and if at my job someone says do this , I'll do it I won't care if it's ethical or not". It showed me that regardless of the age, you need to mention students ethics and tell them why not to do something.

Roger's mention of the photos show that even though how tempting something (6.5 Millions might be) and how needed it might be (his not so good car), he was able to stick to what is right. and that's a lesson in itself.

 

[Petrarose]

Very sad.

 

[Severus Snape]

Today I was with college students and discussing ethics and one of the students said "I'll be a new graduate / new employee and if at my job someone says do this , I'll do it I won't care if it's ethical or not". It showed me that regardless of the age, you need to mention students ethics and tell them why not to do something.

I often find people like that are reckless "gamblers" with less intelligence and foresight than they give themselves credit for. It's not only the well-being of the other person, but one's own well-being as well, that should come into account when considering how/whether or not to act in a given situation. Look at Murray's life, it's completely ruined thanks to his own recklessness. He didn't even do himself any favours and his carelessness did him in time and time again (MJ manslaughter, lying to hospital staff, lying to lawyers, partaking in sleazy mockumentary, etc.) His complete lack of regard not only for Michael but for himself and those around him created a landslide of repercussions, something which he will [thankfully] never ever be able to live down.

I think it's a lost cause to expect most people to be ethical and considerate of those around them--evidence shows most people are not like that. However, most people are selfish and self-obsessed, so maybe stressing the negative consequences to oneself committing unethical actions brings about would accentuate the fear most people have of doing harm to their own well-being, and dissuade them from taking on such a reckless gamble.

You might want to pass on to that new graduate that things didn't go very well for the last group of people who tried the "I was just following orders" defence.

 

[athina_livadi]

No no no no no no!!!

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

anything for $$$$$$!

 

[ivy]

I often find people like that are reckless "gamblers" with less intelligence and foresight than they give themselves credit for. It's not only the well-being of the other person, but one's own well-being as well, that should come into account when considering how/whether or not to act in a given situation. Look at Murray's life, it's completely ruined thanks to his own recklessness. He didn't even do himself any favours and his carelessness did him in time and time again (MJ manslaughter, lying to hospital staff, lying to lawyers, partaking in sleazy mockumentary, etc.) His complete lack of regard not only for Michael but for himself and those around him created a landslide of repercussions, something which he will [thankfully] never ever be able to live down.

I think it's a lost cause to expect most people to be ethical and considerate of those around them--evidence shows most people are not like that. However, most people are selfish and self-obsessed, so maybe stressing the negative consequences to oneself committing unethical actions brings about would accentuate the fear most people have of doing harm to their own well-being, and dissuade them from taking on such a reckless gamble.

You might want to pass on to that new graduate that things didn't go very well for the last group of people who tried the "I was just following orders" defence.

I couldn't believe his answer honestly. One of the other professors told him that if he went that route then there's no turning back and everyone will know that he can be bought to do stuff and they would come to him to do it over and over again and that would make him a "wh*re". The student replied "an expensive wh*re". I can't believe what people sees stuff acceptable for money and career. So Dr. Roger's example makes sense to me.

For everyone he's just commenting on ethics. He did not sell the photos and there's no need to panic or get angry. With the airing of a rather clean autopsy photo during trial, there's probably no more demand for other photos as we have already seen one and media already has one. As they got one for free, they wouldn't be paying anything for the rest.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

What are guys talking about "anything for money"? He mentioned the prices that he was confronted with for the photos and then said he's still driving his cheap car. Basically he said people want the photos and are willing to pay ridiculous amounts for them, but he has morals and ethics and hasn't and perhaps won't ever sell those photos to anyone.

 

[The Brown Gangsta]

Now that the trial is done, all remaining autopsy photos should be incinerated to ensure no "leaks" ever occur. Harvey and the rest of the dogs over at TMZ are just dying to get their dirty little hands on an uncensored photo

 

[8701girl]

Well, it is part of what the class was about. It's a lesson in ethics and the real world--he was talking about a celebrity death he had to deal with as a part of his career, and he'd be doing the kids a disservice if he did not mention how sick some people are and the ethical dangers one can easily be sucked into with promises of money and luxury, and that no one is immune--even people with traditionally unglamourous jobs like him. Too bad Conrad Murray wasn't sitting in on this class.The issue of ethics is of paramount importance and integral to the medical profession, and that is why one doctor is lecturing third graders about his profession and the other is sitting in jail eating cheese sandwiches.

I think there can be purpose in mentioning that. As Snape just mentioned- that's precisely what Murray saw: $$$$s.
A lot of people cannot resist $$$$s.

3rd graders are curious- maybe Michael even has 2 or 3 fans in that class already? Maybe there was a need to talk about it. Children are not stupid, 3rd also have their own thoughts on things already.

Michael was part of Dr. Rogers life as a coroner- and I'm sure that some of the surrounding circumstances a lot to deal with. He's human, people are human. To have to barricade a room in this manner etc- they were trying to keep things professional and dignified. I recall those days being chaotic and frantic- they had to act professionally. People are human beings and I can only imagine with what kind of barrage of requests and plain out harassment they had to deal with. Add the trial- most of us here sit anonymously behind a screen- his name and image went around the world as the man who performed the autopsy of Michael Jackson. That's a lot of pressure and I'm sure he felt every ounce of the responsibility that came along with that. Not only that- he had to talk about it at length at a trial. Most people would need a Valium, or two to get through that kind of cross exam. I remember Dr. Rogers specifically. If someone was unique there, it was him. You didn't hurry Dr. Rogers in his answers.

I find it normal for a human being to acknowledge that pressure and to acknowledge the reality- namely that people are willing to pay such obscene sums. It simply illustrates what $$$$s can do to people. It is not indecent of Dr. Rogers to mention that people are willing to pay the see the deceased Michael- it is indecent that people are willing to pay that much- THAT is the indecent part.

As a coroner Dr. Rogers gets the unceremonious task to determine what kind of sometimes very ugly circumstances contributed to the death of a human being- I think it's great that someone who deals with so much gruesomeness is willing to go out into the world and tell a couple of 3rd graders that despite all the gruesomeness there's more decency in people than just the hunt for $$$$s.

People like Dr. Shafer and Dr. Rogers (death is part of life) are doing collaborative karmic damage control after one of their own carelessly abused a profession that many considered sacred.

I understand what both of you guys are saying bout i thought the class was meant to be more bout like what happens in a autopsy , not the value of what pics of it are worth

 

[Ashtanga]

Today I was with college students and discussing ethics and one of the students said "I'll be a new graduate / new employee and if at my job someone says do this , I'll do it I won't care if it's ethical or not". It showed me that regardless of the age, you need to mention students ethics and tell them why not to do something.

OMG! :no:

anything for $$$$$$!

Money is and always will be a curse. Some people love money and do crazy things for him.

 

[Severus Snape]

I understand what both of you guys are saying bout i thought the class was meant to be more bout like what happens in a autopsy , not the value of what pics of it are worth

But it is important--if he had spent the whole class talking about how many people approached him with money over those photographs, I'd see your point, but he just lightly touched upon it as a lesson in ethics to young minds. One wouldn't think one'd be confronted with such tempting offers with a job like his, and yet it happened to him. I bet he never in a million years thought he'd be the one to be involved in Michael Jackson's autopsy--it was entirely unprecedented for him, and suddenly out of the woodwork come various leeches trying to get their hands on the autopsy photo at whatever cost necessary.

Just like Conrad Murray I bet never ever in his wildest dreams imagined he would end up being hired by Michael Jackson. But the difference between the two in their connection to him is that one betrayed his trust and chose the money and the glamour, and the other chose to honour the trust which was placed upon him to ensure the autopsy was performed in a dignified manner.

Yes, as you can see, it is of vital importance to mention things like that. You never know who you're going to be dealing with as a doctor, and what subsequent events that connection will bring about. If Murray had paid attention in class when his professors were going over medical ethics, he would probably be hailed as an amazing doctor and friend of Michael Jackson, who would have had an amazing tour and a great comeback, and Dr. Rogers would have never had to preside over Michael's autopsy.

Evidently, that is not the case.

I couldn't believe his answer honestly. One of the other professors told him that if he went that route then there's no turning back and everyone will know that he can be bought to do stuff and they would come to him to do it over and over again and that would make him a "wh*re". The student replied "an expensive wh*re". I can't believe what people sees stuff acceptable for money and career. So Dr. Roger's example makes sense to me.

That would make him a fool. When the whole lot of them inevitably get caught, who does he think the fall guy will be? Those who ordered him around will undoubtedly wash their hands and point to him and his long history of ethics violations for economic gain, and once these are confirmed to be true, who does he think people will believe?

One ought not ever do another's dirty work--not only is it humiliating, but it is also dangerous to one's own career and general well-being. Yet, amazingly enough, there is never a shortage of idiots greedy and foolish enough to readily jump at the task...

 

[GlovedPimp]

:bored2:

 

[PoP]

I promised myself not to see the autopsy pic of Michael again. Yeah I've seen it once and I never wanted to see it again. That's it.

 

[dam2040]

I despise google images now. Having to see our Michael like that, especially when caught off guard.

 

[8701girl]

But it is important--if he had spent the whole class talking about how many people approached him with money over those photographs, I'd see your point, but he just lightly touched upon it as a lesson in ethics to young minds. One wouldn't think one'd be confronted with such tempting offers with a job like his, and yet it happened to him. I bet he never in a million years thought he'd be the one to be involved in Michael Jackson's autopsy--it was entirely unprecedented for him, and suddenly out of the woodwork come various leeches trying to get their hands on the autopsy photo at whatever cost necessary.

Just like Conrad Murray I bet never ever in his wildest dreams imagined he would end up being hired by Michael Jackson. But the difference between the two in their connection to him is that one betrayed his trust and chose the money and the glamour, and the other chose to honour the trust which was placed upon him to ensure the autopsy was performed in a dignified manner.

Yes, as you can see, it is of vital importance to mention things like that. You never know who you're going to be dealing with as a doctor, and what subsequent events that connection will bring about. If Murray had paid attention in class when his professors were going over medical ethics, he would probably be hailed as an amazing doctor and friend of Michael Jackson, who would have had an amazing tour and a great comeback, and Dr. Rogers would have never had to preside over Michael's autopsy.

Yes i see your point and i agree, it just sucks the way michael's life ended. I never once thought it would turn out like this , although i hear michael had a feeling it would end somewhat like this and unfortunately it did. I think some media & the public still think murray is a wonderful doctor as they mainly blame mj for this and not the other way round

 

[Joyce]

After everything that the media and certain individuals have done to MJ, it wouldn't shock me if at some point in time, some photos leaked. I have tried to prepare myself emotionally if that happens. If it does, it will not hurt MJ nor his legacy, but it will hurt his children and us-his fans. Society seems to have sunk to a new low.