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Right, where is WBSS, went to JT on Friday night

rickd

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WBSS! Where you at?

OK so on Friday I had the absolute pleasure of attending the Future Sex Love Sound tour. A few weeks ago when I was bitchin about JT I mentioned here I would shut my mouth and go to a concert and see what he has got.

Now before I begin, a few rules, I accept MJ isn't 26 anymore and that when he was, he was also gangsta. I'm not suggesting JT is in the same league or anything like that. Can't think of anything else right now.

So, I have to say I was really impressed with the performance. I have the upmost respect for any artist that can work an audience to a frenzy, cos thats what it was, the screaming at one point was so loud it just turned into blanket noise.

I also have respect for a pop artist who can come on stage and sing their heart out live for 2 hours, whilst dancing pretty much non stop AND playing instruments. Incredible.

JT works the crowd something amazing, he had full on conversations with us and no doubt he was happy cos Jessica Biel was with him but even still he flirted with the crowd and spoke of New Zealand as the most "beautiful place he's ever seen". OK so they all do that, but Justin didn't sit in his hotel all day, he went to beach and got in a hot air balloon one morning to check the place out from the sky. Respect.

Have also found out he wanted to see a traditional Maori haka and went along to something put on for him where he gave 50 tickets to folk who prob couldnt afford to go, needless to say he referenced his "NZ crew" throughout the show and they were going nuts non stop.

Right, thats enough talking him up. The down side. WBSS...you are so right about his dancing. He is polished and EXTREMELY talented but he is not raw like Michael, his dancing doesn't have wow factor for me, it has "that was cool" factor that I could get from home boy down the street. Just so happens JT is celeb. Hope that makes sense.

(P.S. I wasn't that cool with JT grabbing his crotch and going up on his toes at the time, but after i realised it's a sign of respect and the crowd went wild when he did it. He's just a pro working us.)

JT also made a big deal about being the first artist to play 3nights in Auckland. Well, hold on son. JT has sold 34,000 tickets for his 3 nights. Just a quick reminder, MJ sold approx 100,000 tickets for 2 shows in Auckland in around 20 minutes. Robbie Williams has sold out Auckland twice with 2x 45,000 people shows. He's not there yet.

I could say heaps more but in the end i really enjoyed the JT concert. I loved it how he interacted with the crowd, he was dorky, he's not a cool dude, but he put on a high energy show that had everything in it. His songs like Summer Love are surprisingly alot better live than on the Cd.

I don't think there is a comparison myself between him and MJ, they are two different performers. When i walked out i bumped into my sister who said "I think I just saw MJ back in the day". I sighed, because it made me realise that the kids, hell even myself, dont have a full understanding of MJ's talent, how he would just walk all over Justin, even today.

One thing I would say is i found JT's show less clinical than MJs, he wasnt afraid to talk, to change it up a little, he played instruments, his vocals were really good and live the whole way through.

The paper the next day said, "Humour, Talented and Humble, Pull that King of Pop crown over your head tight Justin, it's going to be yours for a very long time." And if there is a sentence that sums up just how much MJ has been wronged over the last 10 - 15 years, you cant get much better than that.

Needless to say after seeing that show i am amped to see what MJ brings to the table.

Happy to take any questions.
 
I don't have any questions, but I'm moving this thread to the 'Music Makes the World Go Round' section....
 
One thing I would say is i found JT's show less clinical than MJs, he wasnt afraid to talk, to change it up a little, he played instruments, his vocals were really good and live the whole way through.
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Ok, so when you say less clinical, you mean less planned? As in Michael lipsynchs a lot in his concerts, yes, he doesnt play instruments, his vocals arent always good throught out the show and he doesnt talk alot? Ive rarely seen any Michael concerts but the ones I've seen, Michael DOES sing live and he did talk to the audience and even if he didnt play instruments, I believe he could. I'm not trying to belittle JT or anything, I'm just trying to see how less clinical JT's concert really was.

That was a great review of the concert, thanks for sharing. :)
 
rickd said:
When i walked out i bumped into my sister who said "I think I just saw MJ back in the day". I sighed, because it made me realise that the kids, hell even myself, dont have a full understanding of MJ's talent, how he would just walk all over Justin, even today.
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nice review... but that part me cringe, lol :brow:
 
oh Michael would have that turkey for breakfast and it ain't even close. Timberlake is a high 2nd tier act but more closer to 3rd tier,but because of the fact that not alot of acts are doing the song and dance thing and him being a white artist trying to appeal,etc... he gets way more shine than he would in other eras. He is decent at times,but he trys so hard at being something he isn't. dude is mechanical and marginal IMO.
 
Oh? So Justin is happy to grab his crotch and stnd on his toes but finds trouble ackowledging Michael as one of his influences?
And since when does talking to the crowd add to one's artistic capabilities?
 
BONGANI said:
Oh? So Justin is happy to grab his crotch and stnd on his toes but finds trouble ackowledging Michael as one of his influences?
And since when does talking to the crowd add to one's artistic capabilities?
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i always find that annoying about JT it is obvious he has been influenced by MJ
 
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That's fine rickd. I respect your opinion. I saw Justin Timberlake do a concert on TV live for 2 and a half hours, and that's enough for me to know he sucks. I won't be convinced in any other direction. I've seen a lot of performers in the last few years and I know what I'm impressed with, and Justin sure as **** ain't one of em. He's an okay singer, but I've seen Celine Dion live, I know what a great singer sounds like, and she moved her ass off on stage, dancing all over the place, going up flights of stairs, etc... I think Justin is a truly hyped act, somewhat talented, but that's it. His dancing is stiff, he's not natural, not in the least, that's a skill he's learned, not a talent. His ability to play instruments is, from what I understand, limited to minor cord changes. But even if it is more then that, I feel playing an instrument is an aqcuired skill more so then a talent. It only becomes a talent to me when you reach a masterful level, which I know Justin isn't with any instrument. He's popular, so of course people are going to be screaming for him and going crazy. I saw people from 60s footage do the same for Herman's Hermits, to the point where you couldn't hear him sing. That doesn't mean much to me.

He's not comparable to Michael. I know you already know that rickd. He's a hollow shell of what Michael is. He doesn't have the essence or the innate talent in any area that Michael does, he doesn't have the quality of talent that Michael does. Not as a singer, not as a dancer, not as a songwriter and not as a performer.

A core difference between Michael and todays so called song and dance men is the intricacy and thoughtfullness that goes in to what they do on stage or in front of a camera. Michael is so involved in his performances and he makes so many, an innumerable number really, subtle yet powerful gestures and expressions that are VITAL to his performance, each small movement he makes is as important and critical as his choreographed routines and finale poses. Nothing is blanketed or general or broad, everything is minut, intricate and precise, from his face to his hands to his limbs, the way he angles himself and hits poses in pefect time with the music, he emphasizes a sound with his entire body, his face included. While performers like Justin, or Chirs Brown, or Usher, or Omarion or anyone really are very uninvolved and out of tune with themselves when they perform. They're simply going through what they've rehearsed, they look disconnected with it and unthinking, they lack any real expression or theatrical gesturing and it makes them unexceptional and flat on stage. They do their dance routines, they talk to the crowd, they sing their songs, but they don't look to be naturally born to it or as if they're possesed by the music and stage, which is what Michael does appeare as. He looks possesed when he's on stage, like he's being made to do the things he's doing by an outside force that's moving through him. Justin and the like have no attitude or emotion to what they do, and that, in my view, makes them poor entertainers. They look like its a job, not an experience, its just, 'do what I practiced, don't feel through it, just do it like a machine, like I'm supposed to.'. In that sense, while Timberlake may have done more, what appeared to be, spontanious actions, which were probably rehearsed, lol, his actual presence and routine on stage, from what I've observed, is like a connect the dots, lets move from point A to point B and be done with it, there's no soul there. The number one goal of a good entertainer isn't their ability to dance, or to sing well live even, its the ability to create feeling with what they do on stage, to create and make palpable any range of emotions, from anger, sadness, joy, fear, etc..., not frenzy, but feeling, through expression and gesturing, knowing when to emphasize with your body and what to emphasize with your body, when to be reserved and when to be intense.

You want to see great entertainers, look at Frankie Lymon or Bobby Darren, Annie Lennox, Barbra Streisand, Sammy Davis Jr., Bette Midler, Billie Holiday, Diana Ross, Mick Jagger, etc... The list goes on, but all of these people knew and know how to express what they were singing about through hand movements, facial expression, the way they moved their entire bodies, they were and are aware of their faces and their bodies to a degree that none of todays performers are even close to. Even old film stars like Fred Astaire and Ann Miller or Cyd Charise, you knew they were in pain when performing their dance routines, but they kept a genuine looking smile plastered to their face and didn't dare show any sign of the stress involved. They never showed wareiness.

My dad said it best when he said, watching Usher perform one time, the main difference between Michael and Usher is, Usher is like a knock out artist boxer, head hunting and looking to land the KO with one big punch, while Michael is like a brilliant, masterfully skilled boxer who gradually breaks you down with beautiful and accurate combonations all over your body. That's the difference between Michael and all of todays acts. That and the fact that he's millions and millions of light years ahead in the actual ability departments of dancing, singing and songwriting.
 
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Beautifully put Nicole and I love the Analogy your old man made, coudn't have said it better.

Anyway I think they should include a grammy award for "BEST INTERACTION WITH THE CROWD" next year, since its so important.
 
Damn, wannabe, I bet if MICHAEL saw your breakdown he'd be like "Did I do that?" :lol: I doubt he takes time to figure all that out, he just does it. :D He's a natural. *cough* Unlike JT*cough*
 
Well yes, its natural, he has natural timing for all of what I mentioned above, because its just there for him, he understands how to create emotion. It isn't something you think about, its something you feel, with Michael, its instinct.

If you watch Michael dance, the reason he's so fluid and accurate is because he doesn't just jump from one pose to another, he gets to each using smaller, interim steps in between the main ones, watch him very closely, and you'll see that. It's never one sweeping motion to get from one step to the next, it's always a series of several steps. Michael doesn't practice that, that's his natural ability. He practics dance steps, but his fluidity and grace and accuracy, the fact that there is no excess movement from him in getting where he needs to go, in getting to those poses, that kind of precisian, that's just a gift, its not something you can learn or improve upon, its dependent entirely on your natural ability, its just what his body does when he dances, its a natural process, those smaller steps he performs. Like you said bnip, he doesn't think about it, it just happens. You just have to be born with it. Like with speed. Michael of course rehearses, because to reach your full potential you have to, to a point, but he never looks as though its a routine he's practiced, he makes it look easy.

I didn't mean that Michael thinks all that he does through litterally, I just meant that he appears to treat each pose and strike with the most diligent care and interest, as it is executed to such perfection, each move he makes, from facial expressions to dance steps looks to carry as much importance as the song itself or the final poses in a chorographed piece. Its the way Michael treats each note he sings and each step he makes, he does it with what appears to be an utter conviction, no matter how small or subtle.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Well yes, its natural, he has natural timing for all of what I mentioned above, because its just there for him, he understands how to create emotion. It isn't something you think about, its something you feel, with Michael, its instinct.

If you watch Michael dance, the reason he's so fluid and accurate is because he doesn't just jump from one pose to another, he gets to each using smaller, interim steps in between the main ones, watch him very closely, and you'll see that. It's never one sweeping motion to get from one step to the next, it's always a series of several steps. Michael doesn't practice that, that's his natural ability. He practics dance steps, but his fluidity and grace and accuracy, the fact that there is no excess movement from him in getting where he needs to go, in getting to those poses, that kind of precisian, that's just a gift, its not something you can learn or improve upon, its dependent entirely on your natural ability, its just what his body does when he dances, its a natural process, those smaller steps he performs. Like you said bnip, he doesn't think about it, it just happens. You just have to be born with it. Like with speed. Michael of course rehearses, because to reach your full potential you have to, to a point, but he never looks as though its a routine he's practiced, he makes it look easy.

I didn't mean that Michael thinks all that he does through litterally, I just meant that he appears to treat each pose and strike with the most diligent care and interest, as it is executed to such perfection, each move he makes, from facial expressions to dance steps looks to carry as much importance as the song itself or the final poses in a chorographed piece. Its the way Michael treats each note he sings and each step he makes, he does it with what appears to be an utter conviction, no matter how small or subtle.
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that's Michael Jackson in one word.
 
And I also have to add to that...you can see the difference between Mike and his back up dancers based on attitude. He puts attitude into his step, his demeanor, the way he claps his hand, stomps his feet, bops his head...all that is based on attitude. Yeah the dancers might say, alright Im good and Im gettin paid for this...but if you dont FEEL the music, let the lyrics and beat tell you how to move and move with it, you'll just be like JT, dancing just because, and not dancing because you love it.
 
Exactly bnip. Michael's ability to put all of his physical energy in to one, concentrated movement is what gives his dancing such power, intensity and force. It creates attitude, like he means it. Like giddyup said, conviction. He gives his all to even the most minut gestures.
 
I think that's what Joe tried to instill in the boys from the very beginning. Sing it like ya mean it, you know? Not just because the people like it, or because it makes hard change, naw. Like it means something to you...that's how people gonna like it, or you make cash money. ;)
 
I don't think that talking to crowd needs to be ridiculed like it has been. It's more about interaction and how you feel as a concert goer. The guy is clearly not an amateur. WBSS you know where i stand when it comes to JT, CB, Usher etc. You know my posts.

All I'm saying (and I will post something on youtube soon) is that JT, regardless of what many think, worked this crowd into an absolute frenzy, to the point where i was going 'wtf?, i didnt expect this'.

and yep, i take all your points, i feel you mistermaxxx. The main point through all of this is that it is a DAMN shame that michaels talent pre off the wall and hell even the thriller bad days are not widely recognised and are not available to the public on DVD, because if it was, there would be no comparison.

And i hate Sneddon for taking michael away in 93/94. That o me is the biggest disaster of his career.
 
oh and i went to lionel richie on weds, he killed JT vocally.
 
Well obviously, Lionel Richie has one of the best voices ever, lol.

I know what you're saying rickd, I'm just not impressed with JT. He's a horrible dancer, his voice is just okay, and his "songwriting", if you want to call it that, is beyond lame.

He's a professional, of course, he ought to be considering he's been doing this since he was a kid, but he's nothing exceptional. He's popular, that's it.

I feel you though rickd. I wish they would release Michael's stuff from the Variety shows, etc... I have it all on DVD, good quality too, but an official release would be nice, just so the public could see. And of course the Victory and Bad tours would be killer to release and I cannot understand for the life of me WHY they don't capitalize on this stuff. Michael is the baddest performing artist to ever breath but people don't know because they haven't seen those performances really. There shouldn't be any talk of comparisons even still though, because Michael's music videos speak for themselves. If people can't see the difference between Michael's dancing and screen presence and that of JT's or any other act today, then I'm sorry to say, they don't know anything about either field. It's just good sense which should allow you to see that difference, but as we know, sense is lacking in a lot of people. Vocally its a blow out too. Michael is the most talented vocalist I've ever listened to. And people like Justin and Chris Brown and Usher, while they can sort of sing (Timberlake and Usher are better then Chris), they still aren't anywhere NEAR world class.

Michael holds back and he always has. I don't know why. But he never shows what he's actually capable of. If you ever watch him dance or listen to him sing, its almost frustrating, because you can see and hear where he could actually go if he wanted to. He could do anything and do it at the highest level. People accuse Michael of being a repetitive dancer, which I think is so absurd. He has stock steps that he performs, yes, but it’s by choice. If they don't think that Michael could figure out how to put on the most blazing tap routine or delve in to a jazz routine, which he's done with "TWYMMF" and "Bad", then they don't know sh*t about dancing or about Michael as a dancer. And he's constantly doing new steps whenever he puts together a new film that features a line dance and sometimes also a solo dance. "You Rock My World" doesn't count, because he was forced into that by Sony with no time to prepare or come up with anything new. That's the ONLY time Michael has ever fallen to doing a video similar to his others, and only because he had no time. Every other instance has shown Michael creating and performing new steps and routines and doing each with as much command and beauty as the last.

It's interesting too that you would mention 93 rickd and how Sneddon and that whole nightmare took those years from Michael. That's a tragedy. I liken it to when they banned Muhammad Ali from boxing in 1967. Ali was becoming scarily good, he was ENTERING his prime, and they stole those years from him. Who knows what he would have done if they hadn't. They did the same thing to Michael, with almost identical circumstances. He was in his prime and he was building up such an incredible amount of steam, and who knows where he would have taken himself and us if they hadn't stripped him of those years and hurt him so badly. We still got Michael in his prime when History came out. But they stole a large part of it away. Thankfully, he's still vocally in his prime. And physically he looks more fit then most people in their 20s. He won't be able to keep up a performance for as long, but for shorter periods, he'll still be able to dazzle and amaze with his talent as a dancer. I KNOW he can still out dance any of these people today.

I look at Michael as a professional dancer, just as he is a professional vocalist. He hasn't been trained in the area, but he moves better then any professional I've ever seen, save for Fred Astaire. Justin and Chris and all those jokers, they have some dance ability, but believe me when I tell you that they wouldn't even make it as a backup dancer for Michael Jackson. Why? Because all those dancers he works with, those ARE professionals, those are people who have trained for the majority of their lives to make a living off of being a dancer. That's their main and generally only focus in life. And Michael still out dances them. Think what he would do to JT and Brown and Usher. Please, it would be a joke.

They aren't kidding about Michael when they say he can pick up moves in an instant. I've heard pros. talk about how bewildered they are by Michael's ability to see a step and then turn around and do it immediately afterwards. There's no substitute for innate, natural talent. Michael understands dance, he understands the internal workings of that type of movement. It isn't something he thinks about, it’s just something he perfectly conceives. And he understands performance. He's the most theatrical pop star I've ever seen, lol. He conveys and he emotes and he acts. He tells a story when he's on stage, whether an actual stage or in front of a camera, through expression, not only through his body, but through his voice. Michael is the most emotive singer I've ever heard and likewise the most emotive dancer.

And technically he's also the best. He's so quick and clean and controlled when he moves. I always describe Michael when he spins as having the look of a spinning top; he's so tight and fast. And that holds true for every step he performs, including those interim steps I keep talking about. The movement in between the main poses is as treated and as carefully executed as the final position. No excess movement. Very, very few dancers in history have ever done that. And it’s not something Michael thinks about, it just happens when he dances. And of course vocally I've already spoken numerous times about his range, his control in transitioning between registers, his quality of voice, which is the most beautiful and most dynamic and multi-dimensional I've ever heard. On top of that, Michael never over sings or tries to impress with silly and displaced vocal acrobats. He relies on his timing and on his tone. He could do all of those ridiculous R&B flavored gymnastics and riffs EASY, but he knows better then that and he just sings the song, he doesn't try to crowd it by fitting in as many runs as he can, he has real style and class to his signing and he lets his quality command it, nothing else, he doesn't need anything else, because its so powerful, and he stays in perfect key, always. He's brilliant.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent, but you get my point. NONE of these acts today are anywhere near Michael's ability and they never will be. No one in history can touch Michael, let alone today's sorry excuses for musical talent. He's unique and he's an innovator and he's probably the single most talented person to ever walk the planet. Period.
 
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I've said it before and I will say it again . . .

What is truly missing with a lot of these acts of today, including Timberlake, is the charisma and "larger than life" persona that used to be so heavily a part of superstars at the level that some hype them up to be.

In the case of Michael Jackson, he has that. It is attributed to his talent, his individualism in style and personality, and his appeal beyond what most can ever expect or hope to achieve.

For many of these current acts, I feel that they can be easily substituted. Now, that is not to say that they are not talented. But, it is to say that their talents are not of an exceptional level to the point that no other can be found or can do what they do on the same level. It is to say that their talents have yet to be able to set true trends and truly be influential past the immediate months. I could find many talented guys who sound like JT, who dress like JT, who dance like JT, who exhibits the same personality/public image as JT. And guess what, the population that is screaming for JT will easily scream for these talented guys.

Also, what is so important about Michael's career has been it's individualism. He didn't dress as others, talk as others, promote exactly as others, talk about music as others. Michael didn't go with the trends. Michael didn't look for others to build his career; he wasn't joined at the hip in music with his producers; he truly collaborated with them but did not depend upon them to promote a specific image for the sake of sales.

Finally, Michael's audience outreach has rarely been matched if ever. JT will not have the diversity that Michael had in a fanbase; neither does Usher, Ne-yo, Chris Brown, etc. The reason goes back to the individualism, the talent, and the charisma.

While all those things can be hyped into existence, reality will never give away those things unless they truly exist.
 
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Effeing great post classic! You hit the nail right on the head. Especailly this part.

For many of these current acts, I feel that they can be easily substituted. Now, that is not to say that they are not talented. But, it is to say that their talents are not of an exceptional level to the point that no other can be found or can do what they do on the same level. It is to say that their talents have yet to be able to set true trends and truly be influential past the immediate months. I could find many talented guys who sound like JT, who dress like JT, who dance like JT, who exhibits the same personality/public image as JT. And guess what, the population that is screaming for JT will easily scream for these talented guys.
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I can't emphasize enough how true this is. People like Timberlake and Chris Brown and Usher, etc... may be talented. But the world is full of talented assholes, lol. Its having a gift that counts, genius that counts, you have to be special, meaning having something that is rare or hard to come across in this world. You said it right when you said their talent isn't of an exceptional level. That's exactly it. Any number of young kids out on the streets can dance just as good if not better then Brown or Usher. And Justin just can't dancer period, lol. And you can find kids on every corner who can sing just as well too. But you sure as sh*t ain't ever gonna find someone on the street who can dance as good or better then Michael or sing anywhere near his level. World class talent is a rare thing. And none of todays acts display such. What they have is about average. And that's why the comparisons to Michael are unjustified and unrealistic. Because with Michael, you have probably the most talented individual to ever enter the performing arts arena. His talent is exceptional, in just about every way, world class.
 
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I,like your posts WBSS!
I feel everything you say and I see it too when I see michael dance and hear him sing.

Michael is just so PURE

Love,
Valerie
 
no, and not the same ability either. We all have our dif talents. But if we want them developed...they can become our gift. ;)
 
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True, most people can do SOMETHING, lol. Not always something useful. And then of course there are those unfortunate individuals who have no talent in anything at all, tsk, tsk. LOL.
 
m not a Justin Timberlake fan but he is successfull and as they say, who can argue with success? he may not have the talent of MJ but he, definitely, has charisma. this is the reason why despite his limitations (vocally, thespic ability,songwriting 'skills') as an artist, he can work up a crowd and send them into frenzy.

and, blacknimproud, i agree that that we can always develop our abilities and turn them into gifts. what JT lacks, he makes it up by developing his strengths. and again, i go back to the charisma thing. he sure knows how to work it to his advantage
 
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