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Reality Check

Shamonee

Shamonee

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I've just been reading through the thread about resceduling of the dates.

Just wondering whether it really matters if some fans were blaming Michael? Does it really reflect the level of their "fan-ness"??

Surely this was bound to happen? It's just quite funny how there was all this hype on one hand and then no-one even imagined/expected any of this. Maybe we should all learn from it all-not to book flights/tickets to come over and see Michael Jackson given the circumstances that you are in now?
 
OR they are in fact for the most part quite sensible examples of how not all Michael Jackson fans are 'fruitcakes'.

I'm a fan of his music, thats all.
 
Sigh.........
I do understand the frustration and the anger etc..
But if you see the videos with Ortega and the AEG guy ( can`t remember his name).
The explanation for postponing is reasonable.
I think we do have to remember that the people behind this was propably (and as well possibly Michael himself) not shore how big a demand there was for this concerts. And due to that things has not been planned in detail in advance.
All the parties involved knows how high the expectations are, and how mutch criticism would arise if the shows are not spectacular. And pushing things means taking to high a risk. Perfection takes time, and coordination all the different people, technology, and getting everything right takes time.
Michael would be crucified by everyone if the shows are less then perfect.

Its easy to say " I told you so". But it does no good, and it is most times just a way of putting oneself above others.
Quite frankly I find that annoying.
 
I think it is normal for concerts to get reschedules for various reasons, and I'm sure Michael wouldn't be doing it if he could avoid it, so I'm sure there is good reason. I personally don't believe the reason stated, but whatever.

I think the problem here for a lot of the fans though is that AEG wanted people to come from all around the world, that is what they were hoping for. They said that they had been trying for two years to get Michael to agree to do this, so they had plenty of time to factor things in to this equation. I understand that things still happen, but I almost bought tickets for the 14th of July and if I would have, I have to say I'd be mad too. It's one thing to reschedule for a few days later, but even that could mess up people's airfare and such. It's a whole other thing to reschedule for 8 months later. I'm sorry, but that is poor planning and people should be upset.

I think the fans who have been affected by this have a right to be upset, let them vent.
 
I agree with movingcoolcat and jilliebean. Michael would have been heavily critisised for not putting on the best show. If Michael or the musicians weren't prepared on that opening date, people would have commented on how poor the shows were. We, as fans, would've have been flooded with media reports on how he didn't live up to the hype, and how the show was a flop.

It's obvious the decision to reschedule the shows wasn't made overnight. I imagine there would have been a lot of evaluation and weighing up the options before they came to a final decision of postponing the opening date. It was either reschedule, or take the risk - if something had gone wrong on that opening date due to lack of rehearsal and preperation, it could result in someone getting hurt or having additional shows postponed or even cancelled. The haters would be all over us with the "I told you so" remarks, and fans would be upset.

I deliberately stood clear of the rescheduling thread because those who had been affected were fuming and I figured the best thing to do in that situation is to just let people vent and get things off their chest. As the dust settles they would start to think more clearly and rationally, but at that time, they were upset, which is completely understandable. I don't agree with fans critising these people and calling them "haters" and "not true fans" because they were annoyed. Many people had lost so much money, and had every right to be angry. Like I said before, you have to let people say what they need to say. If you can assist them in any way, then do so, but we don't help anyone or gain anything out of calling them "haters". We are a community, we should be more supportive of one another.
 
All that matters is his health. It really was not enough time to put it all together, it is not that he enters the stage and everything is completely prepared for him, that other people do everything for him. And he really wants the opening shows to be as great as the others. People would be disappointed in either way. Those who complain should fall down and thank God that they got tickets at all.
 
I think we should support each other like a family! If we are not doing it who else will support and help us? I was affected by the rescheduling, I lost my money but I learned to deal with it and move on! We have to focuse on helping each other and not blaming Michael because this is not a way of solving the problem! I understand, we were mad, we sad it here in many ways (nicely or not) but come on ppl...
 
I think fans should be allowed an opinion, the rescheduling has affected fans in all different ways
 
Just to be very clear; I understand the frustration and the need to vent. I am not pointing fingers at people- at all. And I don`t think its ok to call people haters or other names if they are upset and express it. There is a time for everything, and to get things off your chest is good. But this should not be put in connection with all the strange media reports about Michaels health etc..
I find the explanations to why the concerts got postponed reasonable, given that they need time in the O2 arena to rehearse. Its regrettable that they did not see this coming in advance before they set the dates. But I also think that the main priority of Michael and his team is to get to a level where they are confident and can present the show with a level of perfection that they want.
As I said; he will be crucified by the press unless this is as close to perfect as possible. And even then criticism will come..............Its also good to remember that even if people loose money and experience inconvinience- or even loose the chance to attend- the risk he is taking, is far and beyond anything we as fans deal with. This is his professional and artistic life we are talking about. There are a lot of risk involved, both economical, artistic and personal.
 
vent my ass...if they can support him through all the messes he's been through in his career, defend him to detractors, and still be a fan, and then THIS is where and when they go off on him? honestly? it's a bit much.

there is NO reason for them to go off on him, be disrespectful to him or others, and bash other fans. either some people have been feeling this way for a long time and needed an excuse to vent OR they're running on pure emotions and letting it get the best of them.

we're mj fans, prone to dramatics just like mj. we love hard and we play hard and we fight hard but this time, a deep breath is in order, a calm cool collected head is what we need to get through it.

in fact, a lot of people i know are getting better tickets and seeing two shows now b/c they were able to go to viagogo and get better seats

EVERY DARK CLOUD HAS A SILVER LINING.
 
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there is no fault with anyone. there are no fingers to be pointed. there are no hater fans. there is not a careless Michael Jackson.

what we have here is an unprecedented event, that nobody thought was possible. and we are all trying to handle the impossible. the impossible is kinda hard to handle.

it's no fair to compare this event to other artists' events, cus other artists never had to deal with this. they're not that big.

in reality, it's easy to say Michael shouldn't tour anymore, anyway, cus he's so big, somebody is going to be dissapointed cus they can't see him. too many want to see him. either way, it's logistically impossible to have him tour around the world and see every possible place that wants to see him. and it's impossible for him to play in one place, and expect that everybody who wants to see him can see him. somebody is gunna be pissed, one way or the other.

and Mike's kind of show in this kind of circumstance, on this grand a scale has never been attempted by any other artist, and most likely, never will.

so, the people working on it, should be commended for not quitting, altogether, cus, the possibility of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't is quite palpable. swinging and missing on getting it right is inevitable. but the resulting home run is bound to be spectacular.

it isn't anything new. the most successful people in the world are risk/reward types. ask Richard Branson. most people thought he was a nut. and on many of his investments he swung and missed a lot, on the way to hitting home runs. does that make him less of a professional? he's now one of the richest men in the world. there's nobody in that position who hasn't swung and missed. that's life.

that's why a lot of people aren't that rich, cus it would require big risk. and it would require failing.
 
vncwilliam said:
there is no fault with anyone. there are no fingers to be pointed. there are no hater fans. there is not a careless Michael Jackson.

what we have here is an unprecedented event, that nobody thought was possible. and we are all trying to handle the impossible. the impossible is kinda hard to handle.

it's no fair to compare this event to other artists' events, cus other artists never had to deal with this. they're not that big.

in reality, it's easy to say Michael shouldn't tour anymore, anyway, cus he's so big, somebody is going to be dissapointed cus they can't see him. too many want to see him. either way, it's logistically impossible to have him tour around the world and see every possible place that wants to see him. and it's impossible for him to play in one place, and expect that everybody who wants to see him can see him. somebody is gunna be pissed, one way or the other.

and Mike's kind of show in this kind of circumstance, on this grand a scale has never been attempted by any other artist, and most likely, never will.

so, the people working on it, should be commended for not quitting, altogether, cus, the possibility of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't is quite palpable. swinging and missing on getting it right is inevitable. but the resulting home run is bound to be spectacular.

it isn't anything new. the most successful people in the world are risk/reward types. ask Richard Branson. most people thought he was a nut. and on many of his investments he swung and missed a lot, on the way to hitting home runs. does that make him less of a professional? he's now one of the richest men in the world. there's nobody in that position who hasn't swung and missed. that's life.

that's why a lot of people aren't that rich, cus it would require big risk. and it would require failing.
Click to expand...

damn took the words out my mouf:clapping:
 
This isn't just simply a matter of 5 days. This is a matter of 5 days plus losing hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Please don't trivialize what others are feeling right now. They have every right in the world to be quite angry about this.
 
there is no trivializing going on here. it is fully recognized that the word 'risk' is not a trivial thing. it is very much recognized that great difficulty is taking place in this situation.
 
vncwilliam said:
there is no trivializing going on here. it is fully recognized that the word 'risk' is not a trivial thing. it is very much recognized that great difficulty is taking place in this situation.
Click to expand...

I would hope so. I would also hope that some would see those affected as much "fans" as those not affected by this. The affected fans have every right in the world to be very very angry about this. I know I would...and that wouldn't make me any less of a fan than anyone else.
 
soso deaf said:
in fact, a lot of people i know are getting better tickets and seeing two shows now b/c they were able to go to viagogo and get better seats

EVERY DARK CLOUD HAS A SILVER LINING.
Click to expand...

You are right, I noticed that too. I might even be able to get a better seat myself now.
 
LindaC781 said:
I would hope so. I would also hope that some would see those affected as much "fans" as those not affected by this. The affected fans have every right in the world to be very very angry about this. I know I would...and that wouldn't make me any less of a fan than anyone else.
Click to expand...

as someone who has lost great amounts of money, and has been harrassed over much more money, that i didn't have, due to circumstances that looked to me, that it was someone else's fault, on multiple occassions, including the theft of my identity, i know, first hand, what it feels like.

having said that, i hope the same compassion and understanding is afforded the fans and their situation, and to Michael Jackson, and his situation, and his humanity, too and their humanity too. and from what i see on here, right now, a lot of fans are doing that.
 
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As it's again a thread much more fans talking about fans... it belongs a bit more into the community-section than in the general MJ discussion I'd say, doesn't it?
I mean wasn't the other thread closed for some reason... I don't really see a difference... but hey maybe I'm blind... who knows lol could be.
 
Mechi said:
As it's again a thread much more fans talking about fans... it belongs a bit more into the community-section than in the general MJ discussion I'd say, doesn't it?
I mean wasn't the other thread closed for some reason... I don't really see a difference... but hey maybe I'm blind... who knows lol could be.
Click to expand...

ur not blind. the healing process is taking time. and people are being human about it. and, though like the concert situation, there's some laboring going on, the awkward rough process is also allowing for understanding, and the realization that neither side should be trivialized. it's gunna be hard to cut off human feelings, anytime soon. and, yes, maybe this should be put in that community section.
 
Human feelings should be never cut off... not soon and not in a long run. However sometimes some calming down and no possibility of talking in circles helps.
Emotions sometimes fade... and sometimes change again... and sometimes stay... sometimes it needs time and sometimes it happens soon cuz of distraction or friends showing solutions without chewing on the problem with no end.

However talking with understanding will help the situaiton or better ppl... talking without understanding will not help ... not this situation nor any other.

However this is often very true... every dark cloud has a silver lining.
Those of us who've found it should help others to see it also, that would be community... we should make everyone able to see it also without the need to call them blind before.
As far as I know Gary is very busy with this and there's already a thread for it.

Not meaning anyone in particular. Just what I remember why the other thread was closed yesterday?!
 
yes..the other thread was closed. but this one probably won't be, because of the section that it's in.

as far as talking in circles, goes, well...that's another human trait. sometimes one person heard it the first time, but someone else, didn't. so, some get annoyed, and others get the message after it's been repeated. a lot of people are participating. sometimes one person gets what is said, the first time, while another doesn't. but progress is still being made, and new points were still being brought up, in the process, and with the passage of time, some healing is starting to take place...faster in some, slower in others. indeed, it's all part of the human communication that takes place outside and inside the internet. indeed, it's that old thing called 'hashing it out'. and it is a cornerstone of the most prevalent and human part of it all. and that is its imperfection.

and it's far from the one thing that many people on the oprah show and others, lol, have said is the number 1 thing that ruins relationships....... no communication at all.
 
do I get that right? you're explaining to me that some on here on the message board do sound like a broken record cuz ppl are not getting what those broken records are saying??? rotfl hmmm that's interesting... sure if you hear whatever often enough you tend to start to believe it... brainwashing works the same lol
I always thought they maybe just do think different?!

sorry no I'll take it serious... could be you're right... and yeah the thread is in the right section now... so happy discussion everybody... didn't want to interrupt. sorry!
 
what i don't get is y people are cancelling things. just re-schedule. i had to do the same damn thing. i found bomb ass tickets for my friends on other dates and now they can go.

u change ur airline tickets, thousands shouldnot apply.....unless, like me, u have three seats to do that for. and again, it was my choice to purchase and to attempt to go to the concerts.

things happen.

people would've been pissed if he got sick and a show was cancelled and that could very well happen, it'll be rescheduled at the end of the tour like the others, and people would be even more screwed b/c they'd be in london, their show would be 8 months away, and they'd be s. out of luck. things could've been worse. them chainging it is giving us time to resched now instead of a week before showtime
 
What pisses me off is the way the media are going "this was bound to happen" and "he will probably do no more than 10 concerts anyway"

oh, and also the whole "the quality of the shows in March won't be as good as it would've been in July". :|
 
I have spent additional 1000 pounds to buy another flight tickets that can not be refunded. My only hope now is that the current schedule runs smoothly.
See you in London Michael! Don't leave me hopeless.
 
Mufeng said:
I have spent additional 1000 pounds to buy another flight tickets that can not be refunded. My only hope now is that the current schedule runs smoothly.
See you in London Michael! Don't leave me hopeless.
Click to expand...

understand, you're still taking a risk. not only losing money again, but being regarded as a 'fanboy' for being willing to do it over and over for Michael. though i would think that the latter is no big deal, cus assh**** will call u names, anyway.
 
as far as i know, non-refundable flights are that way b/c they are cheaper. by taking a cheaper route initially, u are leavin the door open to high penalties if u need to change the dates. the only time i made flights like that was when i flew to my uncle's funeral this past jan.
 
soso deaf said:
as far as i know, non-refundable flights are that way b/c they are cheaper. by taking a cheaper route initially, u are leavin the door open to high penalties if u need to change the dates. the only time i made flights like that was when i flew to my uncle's funeral this past jan.
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So in other words, you deserve to lose thousands cause you decide to go cheaper?? Give me a break.
 
the change fee for nonrefundable tickets is $50. the only add'l amount you'd have to pay is the difference in ticket prices. the difference is dependent upon how far in advance the change is made how big the difference is. the time lapse between when the tickets went on sale and when the announcement of the rescheduling of dates was only a few weeks at best. this would not amount to thousands of dollars in loss. additionally, with hotels, unless you book them and pay for them in advance, which is extremely rare, and is because you're getting a huge break, there is no fee for changing a hotel date in advance, only when you don't show. it seems to me the losses are being vastly exaggerrated.
 
friend said:
the change fee for nonrefundable tickets is $50. the only add'l amount you'd have to pay is the difference in ticket prices. the difference is dependent upon how far in advance the change is made how big the difference is. the time lapse between when the tickets went on sale and when the announcement of the rescheduling of dates was only a few weeks at best. this would not amount to thousands of dollars in loss. additionally, with hotels, unless you book them and pay for them in advance, which is extremely rare, and is because you're getting a huge break, there is no fee for changing a hotel date in advance, only when you don't show. it seems to me the losses are being vastly exaggerrated.
Click to expand...

Here is an epinion of Virgin Atlantic and their change fee policies. It isn't just $50 we are talking here. It is thousands.

From: http://www.epinions.com/review/trvl-Airlines-Europe-Virgin_Atlantic/content_466933878404


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