Next, exclusive never before heard Michael Jackson tapes.
This was recordings actually of Michael Jackson in an interview when we come back.
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RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, FRIEND, SPIRITUAL ADVISOR OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Michael was a troubled man. He needed serious help. He probably needed psychological help and other kind of assistance. And instead of a doctor assisting him, he just gave him more and more medication to dull these pains until it finally killed him.
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That was the words of Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, a great and former friend and spiritual advisor as well to Michael Jackson. Tonight for the first time, we will air exclusive audio of Michael Jackson, never been heard before. Michael recorded 30 hours of a very revealing look into the mind into the late pop star.
With us, the author of "the Michael Jackson Tapes, "Rabbi Shmuley.
So, Rabbi, let`s get right down to it and then we can discuss the trial. Here`s Michael talking about the fears he had of his father, Joe.
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MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: He was very physical. He`d throw you and hit you as hard as he can, very physical.
BOTEACH: Did you begin to feel like you were like a money-making machine for him?
JACKSON: Yes, absolutely.
BOTEACH: Like how Macaulay Culkin describes (inaudible).
JACKSON: Yes. I`ll never forget one day he said and I hate to repeat it, I`ll never forget it and God bless my father because he did some wonderful things and he was brilliant, he was a genius. But one day he said and I`ll never forget it, he said, if you guy ever stop singing I`ll drop you like a hot potato.
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PINSKY: Wow. That was a horrible memory of threatened abandonment. Rabbi, do you think I mean it`s obvious these issues hit deep. In fact, in Jermaine`s book, he talks about how Michael would be struck with a belt. And not just with a belt. As we all know, we were watching footage of this judge down in Texas beating his daughter. Imagine that now with the buckle end striking the child. That`s what Michael was subjected to. How do you think all that affected him?
BOTEACH: One of the reasons I wanted people to hear Michael`s authentic voice and the reason that he recorded these conversations for publications so that he wanted people to know his emotional turmoil.
Before people judged Michael, especially after you hear the drug adult murmurings that were recorded by Doctor Conrad Murray and that were played at the trial. You need to understand, this is a person who suffered.
He had a very challenging childhood. I do not judge Joe Jackson. And I`m not here to in any way incriminate Joe Jackson. Joe believed the best thing he could do for his children was force them to perform so they could be salvaged from the life of penury that the family had in Gary, Indiana.
But Michael wanted love of all that wells. And it wasn`t fame and attention that was going to give him satisfaction. It was the unconditional acceptance of a parent. And one of the things that led to Michael`s demise s I believe is that this is -- the fact that he and his father never reconciled. He loved his father very deeply. He used to speak to me constantly about what a special man his father was. [/B]
But he didn`t understand why he was never afforded the opportunity to just be a kid and just frolic and play. And rather than dealing with this psychological and emotional turmoil, Drew, he decided to numb the pain through prescription drug medication. This is why I feel that doctors like Conrad Murray are culpable. They saw Michael`s pain. They saw he was in no position to do these concerts. And it`s not just Conrad Murray. I think he deserves to go to jail, but he`s also a scapegoat for all the others who are not facing their own justice.
Kenny Ortega, the director, read his e-mail at the trial where he wrote to Randy Phillips, the head of AEG, the concert promoter, that Michael was in no position to do these concerts. That Michael needs psychological counseling.
Then why didn`t Kennedy Ortega resign? Why did he continue with the concerts? Why did AEG continue these concerts? It wasn`t Michael serving as a golden-goose laying eggs only as a child performer. Clearly, that was continuing well into his 50th year.
PINSKY: Yes, that`s right. And I will tell you what? It`s not that he needed some simple psychological counseling. Both based on these tapes and based on the medications he was receiving from Doctor Murray and Doctor Klein and these other doctors, he needed comprehensive treatment of a team over a sustained period of time like six to 12 months just to begin to get him on track where he needed to be.
And I agree with you. The unconditional acceptance by the way, Rabbi Shmuley, but every child needs and wants. And just a loving parent being present while they are a child while they deal with negotiating through childhood. If you abort that and head off into a showbiz career, you were risking damaging that child.
But let`s go back to Michael`s father. His seems like he has touching overwhelming force and the influenced Michael all the way up until Michael`s death. Here`s more of the audio. Take a listen.
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BOTEACH: Do you still judge your father?
JACKSON: I don`t judge him. I used to. I used to get so angry at him. I would just go in my room and just scream out of anger. Because I didn`t understand how could a person be so vicious and mean? Like just sometimes I`d be in bed at night sleeping, twelve at night, I recorded all day and been singing all day, no fun, no play. He comes home late. Knock knock. Open the door. The door is locked. I`m giving you five seconds if you don`t open it I`m going to kick it down. He started kicking it. Like breaking the door. I said what? "Why are you not signed that contract today? I said you sign it. If you don`t sign it, you`re in trouble."
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PINSKY: It seems that Rabbi, when you hear - and that`s the first time I heard Michael express sort of anger. And I like it. I think some of that rage is what he`s disconnecting from and unwilling to own as well as he`s of course he`s disconnected from his childhood. And he tried to recreate that in Neverland. Are these observations you found as well?
BOTEACH: Well, yes and no. I tried to purge much of that raged from him. I remember when went to give the lecture together at Oxford University in 2001, we`re in a car driving from London to Oxford. And I said to Michael that your words tonight to the students at the University will ring hollow if you don`t reach out to your father and express to him affection and a desire to reconnect. And Michael picked up the phone, reached his father in Las Vegas, and said to him, I love you. And there were four of us in the van listening.
And there wasn`t a dry eye in that vehicle because this is what Michael wanted. He didn`t want to be angry at his father. He wanted to forgive his father. I also said to him, in many ways, you can`t judge your father.
Because you know, let`s recall, before we judge Joe Jackson, he was raising nine children African-American family in Gary, Indiana. His father was a steel worker. I`m sure he wanted to save his children from that fate. And he probably believed that by forcing them to be performers because they were talented, they would have a life of resources and means rather than a life of poverty.
So Michael really, I wanted him to stop judging his father. To be sure, the means that Joe Jackson employed rightly is condemned. But I think he loved his children. And continuous to love his children. But the unfortunately rather than healing himself of this pain of the rejection and abandonment that you reference, Drew, what Michael did is he substituted the unconditional acceptance for a parent for the very conditional acceptance of fans. Fans don`t love you for who you are. They don`t love you for your being. They love you for what you do. You excite them. You thrilled them. You dance for them.
And because of that, Michael became more and more dependent on his craft. He became obsessed about his craft. Why do you think he agreed to do 50 concerts at the age of 50 trying to break a world record when he was in no emotional state to do three or four concerts? That`s what else came out in the trial.
Kenny Ortega said he would sit there, rubbing Michael`s feet because Michael was freezing. He wasn`t eating. He was never turning up even for the rehearsals. You cannot use fame and celebrity to compensate for love and relationships.
I also wanted Michael to reconnect with his family. You know it`s a beautiful thing to see the Jackson family showing so support to Michael now in his death. They were there at the trial. You could see the emotional pain that they were experiencing through all the testimony.
But what was really required was for Michael to reconnect with them while he was alive. And all we can do now, now that Michael is lost to us, is try to redeem the death of this superstar who inspired so many tens of millions, hundreds of millions by learning from this tragic example. We need to be closer to our kids. We need to be closer to our families. And we cannot use fame as any substitute for love.
PINSKY: Here`s a Statement from Joe Jackson`s attorney, Brian Oxman. "These things are ancient history. The debate concerning Michael and Joe is ancient. Michael loved his father and provided for him. I was with them hundreds of times when they were together. And Michael and his dad were as kind and loving as could be to one another. Remember the picture of Michael coming to court in his pajamas? It was Joe who was there making sure his son got to court. A picture is worth a thousand words."
Now my understanding though, is your friendship with Michael really fell apart. And he had some sort of a list that people were sort of put on and dismissed from his inner circle. Are you aware of that list?
BOTEACH: Well, I`ve heard of the list. To whether or not it`s authentic, I don`t know. I certainly know that our friendship was severely challenged when I felt I could no longer be of assistance to him because he was dismissing my advice.
PINSKY: Michael Jackson is a prime example of what happens with trauma. So, we have to connect these dots for people. These things need to be avoided as they occur, heal.
We will get Rabbi Shmuley take on the Conrad Murray trial after this.
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PINSKY: We are back with Rabbi Shmuley, whose 30 hours of conversation with Michael Jackson were published by the rabbi to honor Michael`s wish to bare his soul and unburden himself. Now, here`s one more of our exclusive never before heard Michael Jackson`s tapes. Take a listen.
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JACKSON: I would like to, some kind of way, disappear where people don`t see me anymore, at some point. And just do my things for charity and not be visual. To disappear is very important. Why we do -- we are a people of change. We need change in our lives. That`s why we have winter, spring, summer fall.
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PINSKY: Again, it`s really nice to hear him sober in these tapes. I imagine you were dealing with him before he started using substances. But what does he mean here by change and to disappear?
BOTEACH: In the same way, you need to know where to present yourself. You need to know where to make yourself very invisible. And I think he never wanted to be overexposed. He wanted his music and he wanted his dancing and his talent to be appreciated. But when he said that, I kind a panicked.
The conversation goes on with me saying wait a second Michael, you don`t mean disappear like God forbid, you want to leave this world. You want to see your children grow old? He said, yes I do. I do. But I don`t want to become so frail that I begin to forget.
He spoke to me about close friends and other stars who he watched over the years slowly being affected by Alzheimer`s. And he feared that. So Michael always was afraid of rejection on the part of the public. And he feared I think that once he was old enough that he could no longer perform, why would they want him?
You see, he never could accept the people loved him for who he was. And let me make one point clear on this subject Drew, I never saw Michael in concert. He sang for me maybe once or twice in his entire life. I didn`t love Michael Jackson as a performer. I loved Michael Jackson the man. He was a very special man. He had a warm heart. There was a nobility of spirit.
We once went out to dinner with all of my kids. And we`re all ordering and my 8-year-old son is trying to ordering but nobody hears him because he`s eight. Michael interrupts everyone and says to the waiter, there`s a little child trying to get your attention but you don`t hear him. Now, I was his father, and I didn`t hear him.
He was uniquely attuned to the voice of children. And he paid a price for his suspicion of him. But I think now that Michael has suffered so much on this trial, yet again was another just assault on his integrity and his dignity. And all of these doctors, including doctors who weren`t tried, who are now speaking about Michael didn`t have a nose and don`t have a chin. I mean it`s just so undignified.
He deserves to have his memory re-established from the public imagination in the correct and proper and dignified manner. He was a special man. He made his mistakes. He was imperfect. But he did reach for something higher. He wants his fame to be used to heal the world`s children. And that`s the valuable message that we oath never forget.
PINSKY: Thank you, Rabbi. The book is the Michael Jackson tapes. And a couple of words before we go here.
The morons keep putting him on. He was on Dr. Drew tonight with new exclusive never before heard tapes of Michael.:mat::mat::mat: