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Proposed Verdict Forms by Katherine Jackson and AEG

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ivy

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This thread is to bring information about proposed verdict form by Katherine Jackson and AEG.

Katherine Jackson / Plaintiff's proposed verdict form

1. Were any defendants (AEG Live, Gongaware, Phillips) negligent in hiring, retaining or supervising Conrad Murray?

Yes / No

If you answered Yes then answer question 2. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.

2. Was defendants negligence a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?

Yes / No

If you answered Yes then answer question 3. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.

3.4.5.6 What are plaintiff (KJ, Prince, Paris, Blanket) total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?

economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________


AEG, Gongaware, Phillips / Defendant's proposed verdict form

1. Who hired Conrad Murray?

Michael Jackson Yes /No
AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No
No one Yes/No

If you answer as no to as to each defendant stop, if you answered yes as to any defendant answer question 2

2. Did the parties agree that any contract between any defendant and Conrad Murray had to be in writing and signed by Michael Jackson to be binding on the parties

Yes / No

If answered yes answer question 3, if answered No go to question 4

3. Did Michael Jackson sign a written agreement between any defendant and Conrad Murray?

Yes / No

If answered no stop, if answered yes go to question 4.

4. Was there an oral agreement between any defendant and Conrad Murray such that Conrad Murray would perform independent contractor services for that defendant even without a written and signed contract?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

go on to question 5

5. Was there an agreement created by conduct between any defendant and Conrad Murray such that Conrad Murray would perform independent contractor services for that defendant even without a written and signed contract?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

If you answered no as to each defendant at questions 4 and 5 stop, if you answered yes to any defendant go on to question 6.

6. Did defendants establish , by clear and convincing evidence , that Michael Jackson agreed that he, not defendants, would be responsible for any negligence committed by Conrad Murray?

Yes / No

If you answered yes stop, if you answered no go to question 7.

7. During Conrad Murray's engagement in connection with TII concerts was Murray unfit or incompetent to treat Jackson's general medical needs?

Yes / No

If answered no, stop, if answered yes go to question 8.

8. Did any defendant knew, or should have known, of specific facts that would have put defendant on notice that Conrad Murray was unfit or incompetent to be Michael Jackson's personal physician?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

If you answered no as to each defendant stop, if you answered yes to any defendant go on to question 9.

9. If a reasonable person had known the facts you identified in response to question 8, would it have been foreseeable to that person Conrad Murray was likely to harm Michael Jackson in the specific way that Conrad Murray harmed Michael Jackson?

Yes / No

If you answered no stop, if you answered yes go on to question 10.

10. Did Conrad Murray's unfitness or incompetence harm Michael Jackson?

Yes / No

If you answered no stop, if you answered yes go on to question 11

11. Was any of the defendants negligence in hiring Conrad Murray a substantial factor in causing plaintiffs harm?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

If you answered no stop, if you answered yes go on to question 12

12. Was Katherine Jackson dependent on Michael Jackson for the necessities of her life?

Yes / No

If you answered no, you must not award any damages for losses suffered by Katherine Jackson. you may still award damages to the remaining plaintiffs. If you said yes go on to question 13.

13. What do you find to be the total amount of damages , if any, suffered by plaintiffs?

a. economic damages : financial support, losses of gifts or benefits, and household services Michael Jackson would have contributed/provided to the plaintiffs during the remaining years of his life or their lives, whichever shorter, calculated to net present value _________________

b. non economic damages : the loss of Michael Jackson's love, companionship, comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection, society, and moral support and Michael Jackson's training and guidance during the remaining years of his life or their lives, whichever shorter, calculated to net present value _________________

If you answered $0 stop, otherwise go to question 14.

If you reached to this section you have determined one or more of the defendants is responsible for Michael Jackson's death. In this section you will determine whether any other persons are responsible for Michael Jackson's death and to what extent. Do not reduce the amount of damages you awarded in question 13 to account for any percentage of fault you award to other parties. Any needed reductions will be done by the court

14. Was Michael Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing his death?

Yes / No

Please go on question 15.

15. Was Katherine Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?

Yes / No

Please go on question 16.

16. Please identify the percentage of the total negligence and fault for Michael Jackson's death was due to conduct of Michael Jackson, Katherine Jackson and each defendant you answered yes in question 11. The percentages must add to 100%.

Michael Jackson ____%
Katherine Jackson____%
AEG Live ________%
AEG Live Productions____%
Gongaware _______%
Phillips _________%


---------------------------------

Will update this post if /when we get information about the finalized verdict form.
 
Thanks Ivy. I know these are not final one but I comment anyway.

Before I start mulling over those, the first thing I noticed that both sides have to prove their case in regards these questions in verdict form.

From AEG form: Was Katherine Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?

Have AEG got something to show that Katherine's negligence or wrongful conduct could have caused MJ's death?
I for one am happy if they grill the family for their part of MJ's death.

I believe Katherine has to prove all these points to the jury, and AEG will try to prove otherwise.
economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________

I bet AEG run to CNN to get CM's interview where he says that MJ didn't want to be his family's bank any more:)


I have to say Katherine's side verdict form is very short, and tacky.
 
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Looks like KJ will also be on trial taking at least partial blame. Would not be surprise with the lioness always looking after the curbs and putting pressure on the golden egg that is now gone.
 
I definitely see that Katherine is going to get some heat during the trial, and I suppose Joe accusing Katherine for MJ's death ain't going to help mothers case.
That verdict form is great indication to see what both sides have in their sleeves.
 
Katherine's side is very to the point. If AEG hired & failed to supervised Conrad & if AEG was a substantial factor in causing Michael's death, how much should we get?

"7. During Conrad Murray's engagement in connection with TII concerts was Murray unfit or incompetent to treat Jackson's general medical needs?"

How will the jury know that?
 
^^^^ Really the answer should be no. As the question stipulates 'general med needs' which to me would not include using general anaesthetic.
 
Well Katherine's is too short to start with. It automatically assume that Murray was hired. I would think AEG would at least want to ask if and who hired Murray.

"7. During Conrad Murray's engagement in connection with TII concerts was Murray unfit or incompetent to treat Jackson's general medical needs?"

How will the jury know that?
Click to expand...

Well Katherine's side argues that the risk Murray had was foreseeable. That question is about foreseeability.

Billie Jean 78 said:
So is it theoretically possible that the jury awards damages to PPB but not to Katherine?
Click to expand...

Yes. Every plaintiffs damages are independently determined.

It's also possible that - assuming a verdict form like AEG's - for a jury to say AEG hired Murray but they share no responsibility of Murray's actions and/or the damages are 0.

Remember these are proposed verdict forms from both sides. It's not the final verdict form.
 
ivy said:
Yes. Every plaintiffs damages are independently determined.

It's also possible that - assuming a verdict form like AEG's - for a jury to say AEG hired Murray but they share no responsibility of Murray's actions and/or the damages are 0.

Remember these are proposed verdict forms from both sides. It's not the final verdict form.
Click to expand...

So if the plaintiffs damages are independent, how likely is it for PPB to receive a payment for economic or non economic damages if Katherine's requests are refused by the jury? I would say that being the children of the deceased it would acknowledge a higher degree of dependency on the deceased than being the mother, no?

And if PPB were to receive a payment, what would happen with the money until they grow up? Does it go to a trust, similar to the Estate's trust?
 
Billie Jean 78 said:
So if the plaintiffs damages are independent, how likely is it for PPB to receive a payment for economic or non economic damages if Katherine's requests are refused by the jury? I would say that being the children of the deceased it would acknowledge a higher degree of dependency on the deceased than being the mother, no?

And if PPB were to receive a payment, what would happen with the money until they grow up? Does it go to a trust, similar to the Estate's trust?
Click to expand...

before even considering damages, the jury has to decide that AEG hired Murray, they were negligent and they share responsibility - at least partially - for Murray's actions. Damages would come after that.

If we are talking about damages, probably we will see higher damages for the kids as they are younger, more dependent on Michael.

Damages awarded to the minors are put into bank accounts and/or trusts until they are 18 year old and those accounts / trusts are managed by adults - in most cases the guardian of the kids. The guardian can take money out for the children's benefit when they are minors.
 
ivy said:
before even considering damages, the jury has to decide that AEG hired Murray, they were negligent and they share responsibility - at least partially - for Murray's actions. Damages would come after that.

If we are talking about damages, probably we will see higher damages for the kids as they are younger, more dependent on Michael.

Damages awarded to the minors are put into bank accounts and/or trusts until they are 18 year old and those accounts / trusts are managed by adults - in most cases the guardian of the kids. The guardian can take money out for the children's benefit when they are minors.
Click to expand...

Do the guardians have to justify when and how much money they can take or can they just take what ever amount they want to?
 
Im sorry to barg in, but since English isnt my first language, could someone tell me what this is for? I got the questions but what makes this form of questions(?) relevant? on another note, if its possible that the money will go to PPB and not to Katherine, makes her actually the loser in his trial as all she wants is the money, would she possibly steal the money from them:unsure: I have no clue what this is about anymore
 
Billie Jean 78 said:
Do the guardians have to justify when and how much money they can take or can they just take what ever amount they want to?
Click to expand...

That's a very good question. I didn't know the guardians can take money from the trust. I thought no one could touch the money until the children are 18. I got the feeling that if Katherine has the authority to take money, the children's acct might be almost clean by the time they reach 18.
 
Aquarius said:
Katherine's side is very to the point. If AEG hired & failed to supervised Conrad & if AEG was a substantial factor in causing Michael's death, how much should we get?

"7. During Conrad Murray's engagement in connection with TII concerts was Murray unfit or incompetent to treat Jackson's general medical needs?"

How will the jury know that?
Click to expand...


This is what the trial is all bout so the the jury can find out infomation and then with that information they will discuss it and then can make up their mind bout it
 
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Dunno if its just me but aegs form is abit confusing. u need to keep it simple imo. theres only two questions that need answering at the end of the day
 
I find this form very interesting, albeit very complicated:)

AEG, Gongaware, Phillips / Defendant's proposed verdict form

2. Did the parties agree that any contract between any defendant and Conrad Murray had to be in writing and signed by Michael Jackson to be binding on the parties

I assume that AEG has evidence that MJ had agreed with them that agreement with CM is not valid until it is signed.

12. Was Katherine Jackson dependent on Michael Jackson for the necessities of her life?
Yes / No
If you answered no, you must not award any damages for losses suffered by Katherine Jackson. you may still award damages to the remaining plaintiffs. If you said yes go on to question 13.

This is interesting as I assume that they are going to show evidence that MJ didn't support that much of Katherine.

13. What do you find to be the total amount of damages , if any, suffered by plaintiffs?

a. economic damages : financial support, losses of gifts or benefits, and household services Michael Jackson would have contributed/provided to the plaintiffs during the remaining years of his life or their lives, whichever shorter, calculated to net present value _________________

b. non economic damages : the loss of Michael Jackson's love, companionship, comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection, society, and moral support and Michael Jackson's training and guidance during the remaining years of his life or their lives, whichever shorter, calculated to net present value _________________

After reading these, I got a feeling that they will bring out the fact that MJ's family was pestering him to do concerts etc.

14. Was Michael Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing his death?

Here we go, was MJ himself partly guilty of his own death:-( His alleged drug use which they are going to bring in to court room.

15. Was Katherine Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?

To me this is the most important of all the questions and hopefully it remains in the last verdict form.
I think they are going to bring a lot of stuff what mother has done during the years, trying to get MJ to perform with brother, signing deals with Koreans without MJ's approval, thus making MJ part of lawsuit, her saying that AEG should have known, but she too should have know but she did nothing.


16. Please identify the percentage of the total negligence and fault for Michael Jackson's death was due to conduct of Michael Jackson, Katherine Jackson and each defendant you answered yes in question 11. The percentages must add to 100%.

I know there is going to be some heavy stuff against Katherine!
Good, as if MJ gets dragged through the mud because of his family, it is only right that the person who allows this to happen to MJ should receive the same treatment.


Even thou, this is not going to be final verdict form, but it won't chance the fact that AEG is going to bring the proof to support all these fact that they wanted to but in the this form.

I have no comment to K's form as it is basically like Jerry Maquire said it: Give me the money form.
 
Aquarius said:
That's a very good question. I didn't know the guardians can take money from the trust. I thought no one could touch the money until the children are 18. I got the feeling that if Katherine has the authority to take money, the children's acct might be almost clean by the time they reach 18.
Click to expand...


Oh dear praying that doesnt happen :praying: but i think if katherine were to do that she will still need permission from the estate do it as they are the ones handling that money
 
Ivy when can the guardian take the money out, because one of my close friends had money for her twins in an account that was an award from a civil case involving the department of education. She could not touch it, not even to pay for one of the twins' legal defense when he was 16. Are there situations when the court stipulates under what conditions the money can be touched? If guardians can go into these accounts easily, many minor's will have no money by the time they are 18.
 
^^

As far as I know they can take money out as needed. So a need for the money is required.

Also important to remember that if there are any damages are awarded the kids will get access to it when 18. If and depending on the amount they can get access to a high amount at a younger age.
 
This is the bit that could cause us some pain (in terms of what the lawyers want to try and sell us)
"14. Was Michael Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing his death?"

If they are going to argue the matter of his supposed 'addiction' and need for more medication due to fallout from the 2005 trial etc there should be another question that asks: "were his false accusers a substantial factor in causing his death?" Of course that won't happen, but getting a 'yes' to that would be justice indeed!
 
Michael made sure his children don't have any money problems, but now if there's an award, the guardian might realize the children need some exra money. This is so unjust & sad.
 
8701girl said:
Oh dear praying that doesnt happen :praying: but i think if katherine were to do that she will still need permission from the estate do it as they are the ones handling that money
Click to expand...

I don't think the estate will oversee those accounts. How i wish the court could appoint a trustee apart from the Jacksons.
 
Aquarius said:
I don't think the estate will oversee those accounts. How i wish the court could appoint a trustee apart from the Jacksons.
Click to expand...

But i thought that is what they are meant to do
 
^^As far as I learned here, is the guardian who will oversee the accounts.

Do the lawyers have to agree on each other's vederict forms?
 
Thanks ivy for posting the form. I thought aeg's a bit complicated and found myself answering yes to a few things, whereas with the jackson one, i never got past the first question, but maybe aeg are being ultracautious.


15. Was Katherine Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?

Yes / No

Please go on question 16.

16. Please identify the percentage of the total negligence and fault for Michael Jackson's death was due to conduct of Michael Jackson, Katherine Jackson and each defendant you answered yes in question 11. The percentages must add to 100%.

Michael Jackson ____%
Katherine Jackson____%
AEG Live ________%
AEG Live Productions____%
Gongaware _______%
Phillips _________%
Click to expand...

I thought this a bit of bombshell, has the media not picked up on it - for the defendants in a wrongful death suit to attempt to blame the mother of the victim. I remember randy in his powers that be letter last summer saying aeg were threatening to blame mrs j for mj's death but i just thought it was informal threats or down to aggressive questions at the depo, i didn't think it was going to be actually formalised in their version of the verdict form. It seems aeg are really going to go in hard on mrs j, no wonder there were rumours of her backing out of the case last year. But it's real hard to feel sympathy even for a mother who lost her child when she was the one with the power to launch or stop this lawsuit which will do far more damage to her son.

It's just weird to see a list of people responsible for mj's death and not see murray's name anywhere, i'm not sure if aeg are assuming he's part of aeg live which would be odd.
 
ivy said:
^^

As far as I know they can take money out as needed. So a need for the money is required.

Also important to remember that if there are any damages are awarded the kids will get access to it when 18. If and depending on the amount they can get access to a high amount at a younger age.
Click to expand...
Yes if the Jackson's win this case, the children would have access to all that money at a very young age. Something that Michael (for very good reasons) didn't want according to the structure of his will and family trust. but then again it might help in them not being so dependent or it could cause the leeches to crawl in and take advantage of them, just as they did with their father. Michael lived through it and knew the dangers of being so rich at a young age. I think he He wanted to protect his children from that. He wanted to wait until they were mature enough and wise enough to handle it in the right way. Having direct access to billions of dollar at such a young age is a dangerous slippery slope.
 
Bonnie Blue said:
I thought this a bit of bombshell, has the media not picked up on it - for the defendants in a wrongful death suit to attempt to blame the mother of the victim. I remember randy in his powers that be letter last summer saying aeg were threatening to blame mrs j for mj's death but i just thought it was informal threats or down to aggressive questions at the depo, i didn't think it was going to be actually formalised in their version of the verdict form. It seems aeg are really going to go in hard on mrs j, no wonder there were rumours of her backing out of the case last year. But it's real hard to feel sympathy even for a mother who lost her child when she was the one with the power to launch or stop this lawsuit which will do far more damage to her son.

It's just weird to see a list of people responsible for mj's death and not see murray's name anywhere, i'm not sure if aeg are assuming he's part of aeg live which would be odd.
Click to expand...

I thought it was interesting that they have Katherine's name there too. I wonder if it got to do with that she didn't do anything to help MJ if she thinks MJ was full blown addict? AEG did ask her about her knowledge of MJ's previous use of propfol and drugs. Maybe AEG is after Katherine by saying that as she knew all that, why didn't she warn AEG staff, or maybe AEG trying to show that even thou she knew MJ's "condition", she still; pushed MJ to do family tour.
I'm sure they have something on Katherine, and they plan to bring it up in trial.

About CM's name missing from the list, I guess its because he is not part of this lawsuit.
 
Im thinking the is kj responsible is more about her pushing mj to do reunion tours asking him for money for the others. i hope the meeting at the hotel gets brought up
 
Do you mean the meeting where Joe was worried whether MJ gets paid £ or euros?
 
The one at the b hill hotel were they were all photographed. many think it was to do with the allgood show
 
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