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People taking songwriting credits for songs they didn't actually write and compose

analogue

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I've seen this alot in music where sometimes the producer of a song will give him/herself a songwriting credit on a song that he/she had nothing to do with. The reason why they do this is because a songwriting credit means more royalities and so they'll get more money that way. Same thing can happen with the artist as well when an outside songwriter will come in and write a song for them and then the artist will give themselves a co-writing credit to get more royalties for themselves.

What's everyone's thought about this? Taking credit for somebody else's work is something i really don't like. How would you feel if you put alot of work into something and then someone comes along and gives themselves a co-credit without contributing anything?
 
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It shouldn't happen. It takes away from the integrity of the song, and the idea that it was the musician who wrote it, or it gives us a false perception that it was the musician who wrote it. In essence, it takes from the meaning of the song.
 
I don't like it. Nor, do I think it is fair. But that's life, right? It's funny, I was just reading somewhere else where they said Beyonce was notorious for this. I di not now that and I really hope this is not true or blown out of proportion.

I think it is sad that you would be so greedy as to claim credit for something not yours. But I guess cheaters have been around for like almost forever. So what do I expect?
 
I also think that sometimes people's ego's get in the way
 
Why are people still surprised by this? It's been going on ever since the record business started in the 1890's. In some cases people use fake names to get around contracts or don't want to be known like Prince with Joey Coco, Alexander Nevermind, Jamie Starr, Christopher, Camille, etc. Paul McCartney has used "Percy Thrillington". Stevie Wonder has used the name "El Toro Negro". Even in the Beatles, most of the songs labeled "Lennon/McCartney" were written separately, usually by whoever is singing the lead vocal. John & Paul made an agreement to give each other credit. People have also used other people's songs and not given credit like Michael using Soul Makossa in Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'. Manu DiBango had to sue. Although Manu gets a royalty now, his name has still not been added to the songwriting credit. Mick Jagger & Keith Richards sued George Michael about George's song Waiting For That Day, which used a line from the Rolling Stones' You Can't Always Get What You Want. They also won and were added to the credits, (unlike Manu who also later sued Rihanna for using Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' in one of her songs). George sampled James Brown's Funky Drummer on the same song, but James didn't sue and so was not added to the credits.
 
^To me, sampling is different. Sampling without giving credit is bad, but with sampling, only part of that song is used; there are other parts that go into making that song its own thing. Like as you said, MJ sampled Soul Makossa but Wanna Be Startin Somethin is its own song, which Mike contributed a lot to (music, lyrics etc)

It's different when artists put their names on songs that they had not a lot to do with besides singing.
 
Yes a lot of artist have done it. Elvis Presley being the "King" of it,Led Zeppelin (wow) , Mike has done it few times. Many artist do it. Don't agree with it and Mike (since i am fan of his) should have known better.
 
morsmordre said:
It's different when artists put their names on songs that they had not a lot to do with besides singing.
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As I said above, that's been going on since recorded music began. So why are people expecting it to be different now? It's not always performers who add their name to songwriting credits, so have managers, record label heads, mafia people, publishing companies, A&R people, people who work for record distribution companies, girlfriends/boyfriends/wives/husbands (or ex's for alimony/child support), and many others. Some writers have added relatives or friends to songwriting credits to help them out financially. Some have even added their pets to songwriting credits. :D Some have helped to write songs and weren't added. Chaka Khan said she wrote some of the lyrics to Tell Me Something Good, but the credits only say Stevie Wonder. Prince has a song called Partyup which says on the credits it was written by him, but the song was really written by Morris Day. Elvis Presley never wrote anything, but Colonel Parker had it set up that if a songwriter wanted their songs recorded by Elvis, they had to give him the publishing. Elvis didn't really like this setup, but as usual, he just did whatever Parker said. B.B. King had problems in the 1950's with the Bihari brothers (who ran the label B.B. was on) adding names to songs he wrote. Some songwriters work as "ghostwriters", which means they are paid a flat fee or salary to write songs for others, but are not given songwriting credits and don't recieve royalties.
 
Charlie is talking about Lonnie Simmons, who ran the label Total Experience, a subsiduary of Mercury.
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I'm brining this thread back cause i like talking about this kinda stuff lol
 
this reminds me of gaga. she says she writes all her songs herself, but why do her producers get credit too? the only RELEASED songs she has sole credit for are "speechless" and "you and i".

gaga playing "poker face", "paparazzi", "born this way", "hair" and "the edge of glory" acoustic on the piano shows she definitely wrote the majority of these songs- the words and music come out of her so naturally but what did the producers do?

at least with madonna, u KNOW her producers make the music, she writes the melody/hooks and most of the lyrics. hence madonna-pat leonard, madonna-william orbit, madonna-mirwais, madonna-stuart price, etc.
 
I think it's terrible and is why I can't like someone like Beyonce. She has had so many songwriters speak out against her for taking credit and stealing songs. I know many knock Britney for lacking substance or not writing all her hits, but I respect her for being honest about it and never taking credit where it isn't due. There's nothing wrong with just being a singer/entertainer like Cher, Celine, Whitney, etc. And in fairness, Britney has written several songs, but unfortunately many don't make the cut. My favorite song that she penned is "Everytime". The song and video are both beautiful.
 
I'm a songwriter myself and i want to look for a producer to produce the songs that i wrote and composed but i'm afraid that he/she will try and give themselves a co-credit for something that they didn't create. Also because i'm new i'm scared that a producer will try and take even more advantage of me because i'd be seen as the ''naive new guy who don't know any better''

and no, i haven't got an ego. I give credit where credit is due, but i won't give credit if someone hasn't contributed anything to the writing and/or composing of a song. It's also a pride thing for me. I would love to open up the album sleeve and look at the songs and see the words ''Written and Composed by (Insert my name here)''. I'd feel very proud to say ''Yeah, i wrote that song''.

and again, i wouldn't want full credit just so i can have all the royalties for myself because the money wouldn't really matter to me that much. For me it's the principal of the whole thing.
 
Travis said:
I think it's terrible and is why I can't like someone like Beyonce. She has had so many songwriters speak out against her for taking credit and stealing songs. I know many knock Britney for lacking substance or not writing all her hits, but I respect her for being honest about it and never taking credit where it isn't due. There's nothing wrong with just being a singer/entertainer like Cher, Celine, Whitney, etc. And in fairness, Britney has written several songs, but unfortunately many don't make the cut. My favorite song that she penned is "Everytime". The song and video are both beautiful.
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and beyonce has never had a sole (or even half!) songwriting credit, so people don't think she's capable of writing a whole song herself. at least:
-madonna wrote "lucky star" herself
-janet wrote "black cat" herself
-tina turner wrote "nutbush city limits" herself
-britney wrote most of "everytime"- there's a video of her playing a bit of it on the piano for an interview but i can't find it.
-barbra streisand wrote the music to "evergreen"
-katy perry wrote "thinking of you" herself

the danger with being just an entertainer/singer is that all the singer has is their voice. the reason why cher and celine are still so successful is that they can still SING and PERFORM. whitney can no longer sing, so her career is in decline beyond repair.
 
Interesting thread..........


I've often wondered how many songs Michael had written and given freely to somebody else!!!!
 
newstarter11 said:
this reminds me of gaga. she says she writes all her songs herself, but why do her producers get credit too? the only RELEASED songs she has sole credit for are "speechless" and "you and i".

gaga playing "poker face", "paparazzi", "born this way", "hair" and "the edge of glory" acoustic on the piano shows she definitely wrote the majority of these songs- the words and music come out of her so naturally but what did the producers do?
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I don't know how the fact she can play them on the piano shows she wrote the majority of those songs. Concert pianists can play Chopin (or any of the great classics) with great passion, that doesn't mean they wrote the music.

Actually most of Lady Gaga's songs sound like Eurodance, like something from the Eurovision. I always had this feeling and then I read about her producer, the RedOne, who is half Swedish and used to work with a Eurovision act. Because Gaga's songs sound much like Eurodance I think her producers are taking songwriting credit with a good reason.
 
Gaga's lyrics are hardly revolutionary, so I'm not sure why anyone would want to take credit for any of her songs. Born This Way album has better lyrics than the previous efforts, but still...
 
Winehouse was an extremely underrated songwriter, people think all she could write about was 'Rehab' but that's not true, her lyrics are extremly poetic, they had a certain depth to them that's hard to find.
 
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twinklEE said:
Winehouse was an extremely underrated songwriter, people think all she could write about was 'Rehab' but that's not true, she lyrics are extremly poetic, they had a certain depth to them that's hard to find.
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"love is a losing game" is WONDERFUL, so is "you know i'm no good". she's the last SOLE female singer-songwriter in POP. so sad she's no longer with us. i hope gaga and adele are next in line.
 
newstarter11 said:
she's the last SOLE female singer-songwriter in POP.
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There's thousands of females singers, bands, and musicians in the world performing pop and other styles of music. So it doesn't make much sense to say there is only one that exists. :D
 
i should have clarified my statement- i meant a successful solo singer-songwriter who actually has CHART success. before her, there was vanessa carlton but she's not too well-known outside 'a thousand miles' which she wrote herself.

over the past decade, she and amy winehouse are probably the only women who sang and wrote their own songs without any help and GOT HITS. if someone here can think of any other names, feel free to name them! criteria: top 10/20 hit.

look at the charts these days. hardly anyone writes their own HITS anymore! in the 60s, 70s, 80s, we had so many solo singer-songwriters who sang and wrote their own HITS:
-carole king (i feel the earth move, it's too late, etc)
-stevie wonder (superstition, i wish, i just called to say i love you, etc)
-elton john (candle in the wind, i'm still standing, etc)
-joni mitchell (big yellow taxi)
-mj (don't stop til you get enough, billie jean, beat it, bad, the way you make me feel, smooth criminal, etc)
-prince (when doves cry, 1999, kiss, etc)
-bruce springsteen (hungry heart, born in the usa, etc.)
-sting (king of pain, fields of gold, if i ever lose my faith in you, etc.)
 
Unfortunately, that happens more often than not and it is the sad reality of an 'artist' in any type of art, be it music or photography or poetry or whatever. People like their things so they take them and quote them and at some point forget where they took them from and it becomes their possession.
 
newstarter11 said:
look at the charts these days. hardly anyone writes their own HITS anymore! in the 60s, 70s, 80s, we had so many solo singer-songwriters who sang and wrote their own HITS:
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It's never been that common for acts to self write, even decades ago. If you look at the charts at any time, the majority of hits were written by other people, not the act itself.
 
DuranDuran said:
It's never been that common for acts to self write, even decades ago. If you look at the charts at any time, the majority of hits were written by other people, not the act itself.
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But it has got a lot worse..........

.....worse still........only a few of today's singer-songwriters (or bands) can actually write good songs!!!
 
Today's music

Krshna28 said:
But it has got a lot worse..........

.....worse still........only a few of today's singer-songwriters (or bands) can actually write good songs!!!
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There's way more acts not on the radio than on it. You can't have heard them all to say only a few are good. What's good or bad is an opinion of the listener anyway.
 
Usually, if a songwriter has the talent to write, but not the talent to sing or produce, a singer will come along and take advantage of the fact that the writer can't sing, and threaten to not promote the song, if the writer doesn't share credit. It's not right, but that's just the way it goes. A producer can be the same kind of cheating person. The producer is established, so he or she takes advantage of the writer. The writer's road can be a truly hard one, but that's because his or her gift is the most coveted.
 
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