Mechi,
You're saying about making free choices... but when you’re raising a child in a particular religion you don’t expect this child will reject it, do you? Children are EXPECTED to continue to believe what they were taught for the rest of their lives. What is purpose of talking about freedom of personal choices then? You apparently hope they don’t make a different choice, because you’re convinced your faith is the true one.
I totally agree with you, arxter, that labeling children with the religion of their parents is an obvious obstruction to their personal freedom. I’d say that using threats of being tortured for all eternity to keep them in ignorance and discouraging to use their own brains is a form of psychological abuse.
A child is not making free choices because their parents or other hopefully responsible adults do.
Or did you by any chance chose if you want to go to school or not?! Parents are chosing anyways what they want their children to learn. The children are obstructed in their personal freedom anyways not only religious wise. But the parents should be free and have a choice. As they do... and they do their choices not always good independent of if they are religious organized or not I guess.
My parents brought up thinking persons (btw not only me also my two brothers). To make sure that, they chosed for us to be brought up in catholic surroundings (means mainly schools and kindergarden... my brothers were never in youth clubs or involved in charities or choirs like I used to, therefore one of my brothers used to visit bible lessons etc.)... nevertheless I was never tortured with threats. Also we got taught (and btw in our catholic schools) about other religions (and no not as being worse ones... just about their teachings as valid as the catholic ones) because in our schools there were also muslim kids and jewish kids and of cuz kids from other christian religions also... so we got taught about all those religions because we were taught to get informed about where we belong to cuz of the will of our parents and this way we got information about those other kids religions very much also at least much more than my friends same age in public schools who didn't get religious lessons.
Also we had many kids from other countries (kids from refugees of cuz they were mostly poor also) in our classes telling about their life. We were very much taught to find out about our roots, nationalities and of cuz also religions.
(Btw you know those friends visiting public schools who never heard about Islam were pretty thankfull when I've told and could show to them Islam is not at all about killing all not being muslim since Mr. Bush was giving a message like that... they were more likely to believe him for sure than every kid who was in class with me at my catholic school.)
In no way we were discouraged to use our brains or we were kept in ignorance in our catholic schools. The opposite is true.
And it's kind of dangerous to think public schools don't brainwash because they're not religious or not teaching religions lol I really can't repeat that often enough.
Back to our bringing up catholic way
One of my brothers left the catholic church. He chosed his life to be not religious.
The other one is still in the catholic church and even goes to celebrate a mass there wherever the pope at times appears in Germany.
I'm pretty engaged in voluntary social work at my community cuz I'm a psychologist and offer my work there for those without insurrance and those just in need without that they want it to be official... victims of crimes etc.... anyways I'm a catholic who believes the pope is only human and even if he should be chosen by God he's doing mistakes just like everyone else etc. but yeah I do offer my services for free in the church now cuz I got my chances only through the church cuz public services, politicians responsible... they cared a shit about us poor ppl in the lower parts of the city.
My parents are very happy and proud with all of us children independent from choices we do in life.
Ok to make a long story short... my brothers and me had a wonderful education available thanks to organized religion because it was no way offered by public schools or kindergarden or organizations in the area where I grew up.
We're thinking ppl, educated and no way brainwashed lol and for sure all of us thinking pretty different about many things... but we were brought up to be tolerant and respectfull towards everybody and everything in this world.
I respect very much ppl who are having bad experiences with organized religions and that's why having their problems with those.
I don't doubt it... no way... but it's not the complete picture.
What I do not accept is if there's an only bad picture drawn about organized religions. That's definately not true and I don't like if it only sounds like that.
Many many ppl find a hold in their churches, organized religions also... because those are
NOT ONLY full of dogmen and teachings like you read above. Again that's just not the complete picture.
It would mean nothing less than death for many ppl if side-arms of such organized religions which are lots of charity organizations wouldn't exist anymore. Because often enough it's the churches working where noone else gives a sh** anymore about ppl.
If you need more prove for this I can only advice you to read Minnies thread in this very same forum about her experiences in the US called something like... how do I let go... I'll be back with the link.... here it is
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55415
See thankfully I was never homeless... but I'm greatful to be who I am, well who I chose to be... and a good part of it goes to the catholic church.
And this thread is not only about the bringing up of children in a religious belief... it's pretty general about agreeing or not agreeing with the concept of organized religion.
I can only very much agree cuz I'd no less than fear for many many ppls life if organized religion how I know it wouldn't exist.
Sorry for this pretty long post but I hope I made my standpoint clear.
I don't expect someone to agree with me... but some might do find some understanding where I'm coming from.
So everybody please fell free to disagree.
