Latest on MJJC

Need help

dam2040

Proud Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
6,370
Points
113
Hi all,

I am looking for a really nice piece of memorabilia. I am fed up with finding fake autographs on eBay for ridicoulus prices. Would anyone be able to help me find a place that sells authentic autographs, maybe framed with some pictures in it?

I'm in the UK and would be really greatful if you could help me :)

I don't like eBay alot so anywhere different would be brilliant.

With the L.O.V.E :wub:
 
I'm afraid that it is not really possible to 'guarantee' that any autograph is genuine...even if it comes from an accredited dealer ( where you will certainly pay a lot of money...I haven't seen anything at a British dealer under about £1k, since June 09...although some American dealers have been a little less expensive). Different 'authenticators' have different opinions about what is and is not genuine. The most you can expect is that you may be offered some kind of 'money back' guarantee, if certain conditions are met...but that depends of course on the 'conditions' and whether the dealer is still in business.

Unless you buy something from (or previously belonging to and certified as such) someone 'known' to be in Michael's circle (eg the A Klein items coming up for auction) you really don't have any guarantees at all...you can only be as sure as your own eyes tell you. I can only recommend that you do a LOT of research into Michael's signature at different ages and in different situations...there can be differences between 'business' autographs and 'rushed' autographs in informal situations.

You can search the internet for 'autograph dealers' and look for those certified by AFTAL and UACC, but as I said before, these are not 'cast iron' guarantees. (Just my opinion, for what it is worth. Every dealer / third party who is selling an autograph will be looking to make money from it, so there is not much incentive not to 'approve' anything that looks reasonable as genuine.).

(Beware of 'certified' items that are not either 'hologrammed' or sealed in some way....it is easy to remove a genuine autograph from a frame and replace it with a copy / fake. Also beware of 'autopen' signatures...these are 'genuine' artist-approved 'machine-made signatures).


You can see an authenticator talking about MJ fake signatures in 2009 if you search 'Michael Jackson' and 'fake' on Youtube.....there is a series of clips including:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWzCdyaK7Go
 
Last edited:
Julien's Auctions? If you register on their site, you will be informed of upcoming auctions and they frequently sell MJ memorabilia.
 
Thanks :D How much are Julien's? I would imagine it to be expensive
 
dam2040 said:
Thanks :D How much are Julien's? I would imagine it to be expensive
Click to expand...

Well, you can look at the Julien's auctions pages for 'results' of auctions...these include the 25% buyer's premium which is added to the bid price...be aware postage and taxes will probably add another 25% ish to the price. (Unless you attend in person and collect the item on the day).

Also read the auction contract small print...all auction houses have them. Again, it depends who is authenticating, and what they believe is authentic. Some auction houses do sell items from 'known contacts' of Michael's ...friends, family, business contacts, other professional associates, but the auction house will not always tell you the source of the item...a lot of sellers prefer to remain anonymous.

The price of an autographed item depends what it is, how old it is, whether it is dedicated to someone by name, how rare it is and who else is bidding on the day. Whoever 'wins' is basically paying the highest price 'anyone in the world' (for online auctions) was prepared to pay that day for that item.

Prices range from about $400 to 'the sky is the limit' eg for autographed costume pieces. I would estimate $750 to $1250 to be an average 'range' for a 'good standard type item ' , plus buyer's premium plus post and packing. (Prices can be high at J's as there are a lot of online buyers and competition can be steep....some of the buyers appear to be very wealthy and can buy dozens of items.)
Don't expect much change from $1,000 minimum overall.

I would recommend that you 'watch' at least one on-line live auction before you decide to bid for anything. You need to register, but there is no charge!
 
Last edited:
This is all out of my range :( I just wanted an autograph that was real. I couldn't find one I knew was real, but I doubt I will
 
dam2040 said:
This is all out of my range :( I just wanted an autograph that was real. I couldn't find one I knew was real, but I doubt I will
Click to expand...

I'm sure you will be able to find something, but it may take time and what you lack in money you can make up to some extent with knowledge. If you spend time really researching genuine autographs, you will be able to spot the real ones on ebay and at auctions...and more importantly you'll be able to spot the likely fakes and avoid them. I've seen 3 on ebay since mid December that looked 'good', and none was over $500. It is still a calculated risk, but knowledge will put the odds on your side...and to be honest, buying nearly anywhere is a risk, if the seller and connection to Michael isn't identified. Don't give up...just keep looking ( including at Julien's) and you should find something affordable. (I've never seen anything 'real' under about $300 since June 09...and at that price you are probably looking at something a bit worn-looking...but you can still find nice things, and of course it is the 'real MJ' connection that matters.)
 
Thanks :) I'll keep looking, but some are SO obviously fake!
 
^Yeah, I'd be really careful about getting autographs from ebay even if the seller has good ratings. I've been duped once, and I'll never buy from there unless the seller is offering photographic evidence or something. Even if you learn to tell the obvious fakes, some people are really good at forging and you won't notice the difference until you get to examine it up close.
 
bubbyduck4MJ said:
I found this item interesting but the signature does look a little funny? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MICHAEL-...usic_Music_Memorabilia_LE&hash=item256b09c9b2
Click to expand...

I'd always avoid 'private' auctions on principle...they are favoured by those up to no good!
I've never actually seen an MJ 'invitation' that looks like this, and lots of different invitations are copied and sold on ebay...it would be odd to find one that looks 'unique'. This one looks very home-made.
You can only see part of the signature...the 'Jackson' part doesn't seem to be all there. None of it looks convincing, and even if it was real, it would be difficult for you subsequently to sell 'third hand' as you wouldn't have a convincing story about how you got it.('I bought it on ebay' isn't convincing for a signature that looks like this).
Plus there is no PAAS or similar even offered. it is supposed to be breaking ebay rules not to have some kind of authentication ( even if it's fake authentication!!)
 
Last edited:
Rhilo said:
^Yeah, I'd be really careful about getting autographs from ebay even if the seller has good ratings. I've been duped once, and I'll never buy from there unless the seller is offering photographic evidence or something. Even if you learn to tell the obvious fakes, some people are really good at forging and you won't notice the difference until you get to examine it up close.
Click to expand...

Very true, and I'm really sorry you got caught by someone like that. What made you realise it was fake, once you had it? And did you try to get your money back? Would they consider a refund? Did you try complaining to ebay ?
 
I think the invitation would look a little fancier than that. I bought an autograph off ebay over the summer from a guy who did lights at a show during the Dangerous tour (the show in Toulouse, France). He also had a smooth criminal hat that went for $2,500 or something like that.

Like others have said, study the signatures very carefully, ask for details of how/when they got the autograph.
 
myosotis said:
Very true, and I'm really sorry you got caught by someone like that. What made you realise it was fake, once you had it? And did you try to get your money back? Would they consider a refund? Did you try complaining to ebay ?
Click to expand...

I didn't try to get my money back because I wasn't sure at first. The signature itself looked legit, and it came with an ACE authentication letter. (http://autographcertificationexperts.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=2)

How I came to suspect the authenticity was when the they started listing Michael autographs by the hoards. They said the autographs belonged to an autograph chaser friend.

This is an interesting CNN clip from 2009 on Michael autographs - http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2009/07/01/bs.jackson.autograph.cnn
 
Last edited:
Rhilo said:
I didn't try to get my money back because I wasn't sure at first. The signature itself looked legit, and it came with an ACE authentication letter. (http://autographcertificationexperts.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=2)

How I came to suspect the authenticity was when the they started listing Michael autographs by the hoards. They said the autographs belonged to an autograph chaser friend.

This is an interesting CNN clip from 2009 on Michael autographs - http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2009/07/01/bs.jackson.autograph.cnn
Click to expand...

Apologies, I've not been back here in a while....My commiserations, ACE sure went to a lot of trouble to look the part....It is really hard to know who are the good authenticators and who not, and there is lots of debate in the 'authentication' world about authenticators who 'let things through' , as it is all good business, eg 'dated' items signed after the signatories have died.

There were lots of 'career' collectors around too, and MJ did apraently sometimes sit in his car and sign for hours, everything that the collectors gave him, so it is true that some sellers would have had lots to sell...but I imagine that most will have taken advantage of the high prices in 2009 and will have sold off most of their stock by now. Prices do seem to be coming down a little.
 
So hard to tell a fake from a real one. There are a lot of signatures out there though. He signed so often.
There are some in an online action at the moment.
http://www.gottahaverockandroll.com/catalog.aspx

But the prizes are far out of my league. The thriller and billie jean come a bit closer. But you also have to pay a lot to the auction house.
And how do you know if these are real...
 
I guess you'd need to go to an auction house or similar which has a good reputation. If the autograph has a coa with it it's probably genuine. The really good companies don't want to ruin their reputation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top