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Music Production Of Dangerous vs HIStory Tour

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Dangerous Incorporated

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The sound of the HIStory Tour seems more industrial compared to that of the Dangerous Tour. The mixing seems wrong. The drums seem more tight, and fake. Billie Jean for example on the HIStory Tour. The snare drums sounds more like a piece of metal than a snare and sounds wrong. The snare drum on Dangerous Tour sounded like a snare and went with Billie Jean. I dunno what it is exactly but something about the music production of the HIStory Tour seems off. The Dangerous Tour was perfect. It sounded like it was in a stadium, not in an auditorium. Is it just me or do you guys hear the same thing? Maybe Im not be clear enough in my description either.
 
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I think I know a little bit of what you are talking about.

I believe on the History tour they used less of the band and more pre-recorded tracks, whereas on the Dangerous tour they used more band and (as far as I know) zero pre-recorded tracks. Plus, in the History tour, they kind of had to use some sounds that you just can't duplicate with a back-up band. Songs like Stranger In Moscow or In The Closet would have sounded terrible with just the band.

I don't know about the snare sound. I haven't listened to it that closely. But you got me curious now....so I will now have to search YT and find recordings of both tours and figure this out.


Both tours definitely have their good and bad qualities. Ugh...I just wish I could have seen them! Screw the sound, I just wanna see it! LOL!
 
i get what you mean. Dangerous just had a lot more acoustic instrumentation but it still used sample playback for small details like the scratches and glass-breaking in Jam etc.

HIStory on the other hand had much more playback and small details of acoustic instruments on tracks like Scream, Stranger In Moscow (hi-hat rhythm was acoustic and improvised).

i think the drummer (Moffett) combined a sampled drum kit (individual sounds from original recording preset onto pads that he can trigger live) with an acoustic one. you can hear the hi-hats are acoustic and the rest is probably a mixture because the rhythm is improvised in real-time even though the sound is from the original, pre-mixed recording.

Moffett uses this a lot:

jonathanmoffet77.jpg


but for Billie Jean in both tours the drums are completely live and i don't hear anything wrong with it in the HIStory one. the tighter you get the snare, the better imo.
 
arXter said:
i get what you mean. Dangerous just had a lot more acoustic instrumentation but it still used sample playback for small details like the scratches and glass-breaking in Jam etc.

HIStory on the other hand had much more playback and small details of acoustic instruments on tracks like Scream, Stranger In Moscow (hi-hat rhythm was acoustic and improvised).

i think the drummer (Moffett) combined a sampled drum kit (individual sounds from original recording preset onto pads that he can trigger live) with an acoustic one. you can hear the hi-hats are acoustic and the rest is probably a mixture because the rhythm is improvised in real-time even though the sound is from the original, pre-mixed recording.

Moffett uses this a lot:

jonathanmoffet77.jpg


but for Billie Jean in both tours the drums are completely live and i don't hear anything wrong with it in the HIStory one. the tighter you get the snare, the better imo.
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Thanx for the info man. I appreciate the effort. Alot of info there.

The snare in BJ sounds more like he's hitting metal than a snare IMO. I was aware of the drums set having preset instrumentation of original recordings and you can deffo tell the difference from the sample playbacks. And Jam in Dangerous Tour was all playback....well MJ 'singing' was. You can tell when he's about to sing live because he raises his finger to the sound engineer who then raises the volume of MJs mike.

I like the HIStory Tour version of Dangerous. It sounds like the 95 MTV version but the keyboards are programmed different. You can see Brad Buxer conducting a lot in the background.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
The snare in BJ sounds more like he's hitting metal than a snare IMO.
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i think they just had better live sound engineering during HIStory tour. because i'm quite certain the drumming was all acoustic during Billie Jean and the audio went through a mixing board that definitely tightened up the snare's natural sound - so it depends on tastes there i guess. for rock concerts i guess you'd enjoy a raw snare sound but in urban ones i'd go for that tight, crisp one.

i remember hearing the Dangerous concert on BBC radio and how awful it sounded. for the Bucharest DVD, they definitely fine-tuned the tracks separately than when it was first aired live.

I was aware of the drums set having preset instrumentation of original recordings and you can deffo tell the difference from the sample playbacks.
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i think it was necessary because like IvoryKeys said, Mike went for sounds that just can't be reproduced acoustically. but i loved the way the hi-hats were done in Stranger In Moscow if you listen closely. really sets a nice groove.

And Jam in Dangerous Tour was all playback....well MJ 'singing' was. You can tell when he's about to sing live because he raises his finger to the sound engineer who then raises the volume of MJs mike.
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lip-synch'd definitely but drums, guitar, bass and synth were played on the spot - had a lot of improvisation.

but anyway, overall you're definitely right about the difference between the two concerts' "live" feel. in the traditional sense, anyway.
 
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arXter said:
i think it was necessary because like IvoryKeys said, Mike went for sounds that just can't be reproduced acoustically. but i loved the way the hi-hats were done in Stranger In Moscow if you listen closely. really sets a nice groove.
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Cant say Ive noticed that. I will play it back shortly and turn it up on the stereo. But I love alot of the hit hats and cymbals used in a lot of songs that arent on the albums like Scream, TDCAU etc Dunno why I missed SIM. I added the hit hats to a BOTDF mix and the guitars from the live version to my remix I did which turned out great. It here:
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49043

I have a audio recording of Dangerous Tour in Bucharest from an Unauthorized Live CD and during the opening minute of Jam, MJ can be heard with his 'Hoo' etc which isnt heard on any video of the concert that Ive seen. When you play the video, you can see where he does it but only the pre-recorded lead vocal playback can be heard.
 
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you know what, i just went back and listened to SIM and noticed that many things are played live there (dubbed over a few tracks from the original recording). drums and bass are def live and probably Buxer's synths since they won't differ from original in terms of preset sound. just imagine if Mike had sang it live...
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
The sound of the HIStory Tour seems more industrial compared to that of the Dangerous Tour. The mixing seems wrong. The drums seem more tight, and fake. Billie Jean for example on the HIStory Tour. The snare drums sounds more like a piece of metal than a snare and sounds wrong. The snare drum on Dangerous Tour sounded like a snare and went with Billie Jean. I dunno what it is exactly but something about the music production of the HIStory Tour seems off. The Dangerous Tour was perfect. It sounded like it was in a stadium, not in an auditorium. Is it just me or do you guys hear the same thing? Maybe Im not be clear enough in my description either.
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i think it's very hard to screw up a well written song. i have no problem with the sound of either tour.
 
You can't judge the 2 shows for a fact! not unless you were at both and can remmber every instrument and sound exacty! The recordings we have now are no where near accurate, after mixing has tainted them, some of the history tour recordings are horrible! plus you have to remember advances in technology, the synths used and drum set up, each musician has to be comfortable in their own enviroment and each had a hand in the overall effect!

Just something for you all to ponder on, WBSS & Thriller on every tour all have the same Bass instrument playing the bassline ;)
 
alot of Dangerous was tracked through a Synclavar. History had a combination of things some live and some dubbed in. depends on the section and what song in particular.

the Bad TOur was the last one all the way Live though.
 
does anyone have an idea what synth the intro "bell"-like sound of Beat It is from?
i guess it must be a preset sound of some synth... as they play the exact sound
live in concert...
and i also heard it on a 80s synth record (with slightly altered dynamics - so no MJ sample)
by the german group Tangerine Dream.

must be one of those early digital sample based synths.
 
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probably the Synclavier or the Yamaha CS-80, maybe even the Fairlight.

if you're into softsynths and samplers, Best Service's Cult Sampler has a recreation of it in a preset called 'Bell Pad'. i'm not sure from which synth it's actually taken but my bet would be the Synclavier.

edit: just had a look on the sampler, it's not Bell Pad it's actually called 'Synclav-1'.
 
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arXter said:
damn, you collect the actual synths?! man i envy you LOL
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yea, although this will be a tough one... rareness and price wise. :)
Minimoog, Sequential Circuits, Roland etc... are all a bit easier to get hold of :D
 
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well it's a live instramentals vs. a mix of much recorded and some live instramentals..
 
I prefer the Dangerous Tour because it was more live than the HIStory Tour. If I want a bunch of pre-recorded tracks, I'll put on a CD.
 
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