Music/Pop Culture Knowledge: Then and Now

[arXter]

I had an interesting conversation with a fellow music-lover today about how musical knowledge has changed since her 70s/80s heyday.

I obnoxiously argued that, with the Internet, it seems like even with all them rare vinyl she collected, the shows she went to, and the trivial knowledge acquired over the years, it probably wouldn't supersede what some keen 16 year-old with a loaded hard disk and too much free time can gain today, thus becoming a music-head in no time. Those "rare" records can be tracked down in seconds. Liner notes can be tracked down in minutes.

She hit hard by replying that while it may be knowledge, it's not "experience". And that's when the debate got going. No doubt the major advantage here is that more music is available to many more people. But the disadvantage may well be the oversaturation of it. While you may have terabytes of music in your digital* library, how much of it will you appreciate? Downloading dozens of albums a week surely can't be as good as buying a record a week and appreciating the living daylight out of it.

As I'm getting busier in my studies, I'm finding I have less and less time to "appreciate" the load of music that comes my way every week. I actually feel overwhelmed. Being part of the 00s music generation, am I missing out on some magical experience that older music-heads went through? Or is that just some nostalgic nonsense overanalysing and overcriticising the newer generations?


* (end note) I strongly disagree with the generalised claim that "analogue sounds better than digital". In fact in most cases I think it's the opposite.

 

[TillitsGone]

I somewhat agree with the girl about the "knowledge' over experience" argument. I think you can learn a lot about the different music styles/era that developed over the years, research it and at the same time appreciate it without you actually having to "live" through it (when that music populated the airwaves). Am I making any sense? This is an interesting topic I'd probably liked to get involved in, so I'll try to explain as good as I can...

 

[mjscarousal]

She hit hard by replying that while it may be knowledge, it's not "experience". And that's when the debate got going. No doubt the major advantage here is that more music is available to many more people. But the disadvantage may well be the oversaturation of it. While you may have terabytes of music in your digital* library, how much of it will you appreciate? Downloading dozens of albums a week surely can't be as good as buying a record a week and appreciating the living daylight out of it.

As I'm getting busier in my studies, I'm finding I have less and less time to "appreciate" the load of music that comes my way every week. I actually feel overwhelmed. Being part of the 00s music generation, am I missing out on some magical experience that older music-heads went through? Or is that just some nostalgic nonsense overanalysing and overcriticising the newer generations?

I definitly agree with you.... Going out and buying a fav track or album is completely different from downloading which is something that my generation has missed out on. Back in the day people couldnt wait for their favorite artist to come back out with an album or for their favorite song to finally hit the shevles as a single. People were dying to get in line first to get their album. NOWADAYS people who are into whats "in" will just listen to the radio and find their favorite song on itunes, imeem, myspace etc. download it and listen to their music. Its definitly different from back in the day but thats because the industry is different. People dont look at sales anymore instead they look at downloads or how many times a song is being played on the net. That good feeling is gone for what music would bring to you...

I had an interesting conversation with a fellow music-lover today about how musical knowledge has changed since her 70s/80s heyday.

I obnoxiously argued that, with the Internet, it seems like even with all them rare vinyl she collected, the shows she went to, and the trivial knowledge acquired over the years, it probably wouldn't supersede what some keen 16 year-old with a loaded hard disk and too much free time can gain today, thus becoming a music-head in no time. Those "rare" records can be tracked down in seconds. Liner notes can be tracked down in minutes.

I agree with you again. Music is everywhere from all generations... from the blues in the 50's and current r&b. Now... im pretty music conscience and I listen to a variety of music from different eras which is surprising to some because I'm only 17. My father at a tender age of 9 introduce me to old school and from there I developed my own taste in music and interest in other music besides whats being played on the radio cause whats been played on the radio is garbage. So with all that being said, I think you can still fully experience the goodness of a track that was made past your era. Sure I probably wasnt there in the 60's and 70's or 80's but now I have the music to relieve it and enjoy the real good stuff. Anybody can become a "music head" regardless of what kind of music they like with the savy technology. Music is everywhere.

 

[JoeyMJFan]

I had an interesting conversation with a fellow music-lover today about how musical knowledge has changed since her 70s/80s heyday.

I obnoxiously argued that, with the Internet, it seems like even with all them rare vinyl she collected, the shows she went to, and the trivial knowledge acquired over the years, it probably wouldn't supersede what some keen 16 year-old with a loaded hard disk and too much free time can gain today, thus becoming a music-head in no time. Those "rare" records can be tracked down in seconds. Liner notes can be tracked down in minutes.

She hit hard by replying that while it may be knowledge, it's not "experience". And that's when the debate got going. No doubt the major advantage here is that more music is available to many more people. But the disadvantage may well be the oversaturation of it. While you may have terabytes of music in your digital* library, how much of it will you appreciate? Downloading dozens of albums a week surely can't be as good as buying a record a week and appreciating the living daylight out of it.

As I'm getting busier in my studies, I'm finding I have less and less time to "appreciate" the load of music that comes my way every week. I actually feel overwhelmed. Being part of the 00s music generation, am I missing out on some magical experience that older music-heads went through? Or is that just some nostalgic nonsense overanalysing and overcriticising the newer generations?


* (end note) I strongly disagree with the generalised claim that "analogue sounds better than digital". In fact in most cases I think it's the opposite.

Interesting topic. . . . From my experience, born in '78, when I bought albums back in the day, I listened to the heck out of them! Every track, through and through. Then an artist like Prince or Bruce Springsteen, I'd listen to the entire catalog in sequential order! Every liner note and down to the credits, I'd read every word and every "thank you" in its booklet. I absorbed the albums, knew every song backwards and forwards.

I did download music for a brief period, and I'd come to HATE it. I missed having something physical w/ the music (as silly as that logic seems), whether it be the album's cover, the credits, the liner notes -- ANYTHING that represented the beautiful sounds. Buying a physical album for me off Amazon or at the local Target/Best Buy etc (no more local record stores near me anymore, now THOSE were the days!) -- not downloading it off Itunes or Limewire or whatever -- is the only way I go.

And basically what you described, I once downloaded so much, I didn't really have the time to appreciate every song. It was almost like a sensory overload and too daunting to listen to everything. I used and sometimes still listen to an album, and read the lyrics from the booklet as it plays. W/ even a gig of music or whatever, that would take a REALLY long time to listen to every lyric, learn the tracklist of each CD, learn the order of the tracklisting, etc

I can't really answer how someone young retains the information or appreciates the music since it's a whole different generation now than me. Yeah it's all out there, but are teens and young adults researching the Jackson 5, Prince, Otis Redding, just for the heck of it? Who knows! But I know when I bought an album, listening to it was like savoring every song (and booklet), instead of inhaling it w/ downloading it. There was no Internet or cell phones when I was a kid though, so those are two big avenues that rip kids away from reading a good booklet of liner notes! . . . . Man, I remember when I got the Jackson 5 25th Anniversary Soulsation boxed set as a kid for my birthday when I was 16 or so (15 yrs ago, wow!), and I devoured that booklet, lol! It was huge, really long to fit the length of the box-set, nice thick pages, vibrant pictures of the J-5 w/ 'groovy' graphics, etc. It even included a nice intro from Janet.

Plus I don't own an Ipod or MP3 player or anything, so I'm an old dinosaur stuck in my old listening habits.

So no, I don't think there's anything magical about buying a physical album, but I think you hit the nail on the head w/ the oversaturation of terabytes. . I think if someone's just downloading stuff, he kind of loses something.

 

[DuranDuran]

I've never downloaded anything other than a few acapella songs. There's still record stores where I live and I like an actual product that I can put on a shelf, and the download tracks are of dubious sound quality to me. If available I still buy vinyl records, but unfortunately new records in a lot of cases cost double the price of a CD because they aren't the main sales at the stores. I also buy old albums in used stores. In a lot of cases I've never heard the music, so it is "new" to me. The records have bigger artwork as opposed to tiny CD booklets also. One local store still carry remix 12" singles, but as I don't like current popular music (or the boring house/techno remixes on the singles that all sound alike) I don't buy them. But they still have some old singles from the 80s from acts like Prince & Madonna in print though. But as far as 'experience' vs 'education' is concerned, it is different to have been around when the music was originally released than listening to it in retrospect because of the overall culture of the time. A song like Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit" meant more when it was originally released than it does listening to it now as an "oldie but goody". But I don't think it really has anything to do with enjoying music. The Beatles broke up before I was born, I was around for Wings, but I'm a much bigger fan of The Beatles than Wings or John, George, & Ringo solo music which I don't know that much about. But because I grew up with the Jacksons & J5, I appreciate them more than most "Thriller" or "King Of Pop" fans who only like Michael and seem to like the "Dangerous" era on. Although I like "Dangerous" and some of the stuff from the albums after it, it's not the same for me. I grew up with musicians playing music, so I prefer that to anything else. But there is still some young traditional acts today like Raul Midon, Lizz Wright & Esperanza Spalding, but they get no airplay or promotion because as my younger cousin puts it "Nobody wants to hear that old soulful music", lol. They don't use the "producer of the month", they have musicians on their songs instead of "beats" and samples.

 

[Superstition]

Another good thread topic.

I think the truth is in the middle of what you and your friend were discussing. Experience, living through the times/eras of certain artists and music styles, collecting the records and albums, etc. is all an important part of music listening, and certainly is one way to enjoy the art.

However, downloading and researching is another way to get you to the same place.

I think that when you truly enjoy an artist or music style (such as how many of us do with Mike and other R&B artists), it doesn't matter if you lived through the era or grew up wearing their records out. We all arrive at the same place, we just got there with different paths.

Although, I do think that there is something you can't take away from actually living during the time when your favorite artist was making hits and was on top of the music kingdom. Many of us born in the mid-80's don't remember and never will know what it was like to turn on the radio and her a Jackson's funk song on the radio, or to hear Micahel Jackson with the number one song in the country. We don't know what it was like to turn on our giant wooden box TV and see the J5 on Soul Train.

It's an experience that can't be taken away or learned. You either lived through it and experienced it or you didn't, and I can understand why someone who was lucky enough to live during that time can brag and say "You just will never know what's that like". Because its true.

That, however, doesn't make one less knowledgeable, appreciative or understanding of the music.

 

[DuranDuran]

Although, I do think that there is something you can't take away from actually living during the time when your favorite artist was making hits and was on top of the music kingdom. Many of us born in the mid-80's don't remember and never will know what it was like to turn on the radio and her a Jackson's funk song on the radio, or to hear Micahel Jackson with the number one song in the country. We don't know what it was like to turn on our giant wooden box TV and see the J5 on Soul Train.

It's an experience that can't be taken away or learned. You either lived through it and experienced it or you didn't, and I can understand why someone who was lucky enough to live during that time can brag and say "You just will never know what's that like". Because its true.

A lot of the younger people only know Mike as "J....", but I was around before all of that, so I remember when The Jacksons were still just a group and not tabloid fodder. Back then tabloids just printed stories like "Bigfoot Had My Love Child". LaToya was the girl with the headband, lol, and Janet was "little Penny" on Good Times and "Charlene" on Diff'rent Strokes. I remember there was no internet and that people were excited about music acts. Listening to 45 singles, 8-tracks, and cassettes and buying bubble gum records. Watching music shows like Soul Train, American Bandstand, Solid Gold, Dance Fever, Casey Kasem Top 10, Midnight Special, Hee Haw, Friday Night Videos. I remember "Rapper's Delight" and "The Breaks" and "The Adventures Of Super Rhymes" coming out. James Brown used to have a TV dance show in the late 70s, but I don't remember what it was called, but it came on at night. I remember all of the variety shows in the 70s and early 80s like The Jacksons, Donny & Marie, Captain & Tennille, Barbara Mandrell & The Mandrell Sisters, Carol Burnett, etc. There was also no cable or home video in the 70s and the TV stations went off air at night. Kids today don't know what VHF/UHF was, lol. Or "I Want My MTV" commercials in the 80s and "World Premiere Videos". If you didn't have cable you tried to stay awake and watch 'Friday Night Videos'. So it was different to live through that.

 

[DuranDuran]

My father at a tender age of 9 introduce me to old school and from there I developed my own taste in music and interest in other music besides whats being played on the radio cause whats been played on the radio is garbage.

When I was little I lived with my grandparents, and I used to play their records on the record changer. My grandfather only liked country style blues, so I'd listen to his Slim Harpo records. My grandmother had a bunch of 78s, but they all eventually broke as 78s were brittle, but she still had 45s and a few albums. I didn't know anything about "hits" or charts or whats popular because I was around a lot of old people, lol. So that never really concerned me. I've never understood the idea that because a bunch of people bought a record or that it's "number 1" on the charts that it's superior to some obscure record that maybe a few people heard. I've never been a fan of "hits", but a fan of music. Sure I've liked some music that happened to be popular, but that isn't why I listened to it.

 

[mistermaxxx]

i was arounf when 8 tracks were popping and cassettes were new and the walkman was new.

hearing and seeing things were cool and getting that feeling from going to a record store,etc...

downloading has it's place and every era and generation have there own perspective in the subject however being there is still moments that just can't be touched.

my grandparents, aunts,uncles,parents, cousins friends music and collecting hearing,etc... special times

 

[mjscarousal]

When I was little I lived with my grandparents, and I used to play their records on the record changer. My grandfather only liked country style blues, so I'd listen to his Slim Harpo records. My grandmother had a bunch of 78s, but they all eventually broke as 78s were brittle, but she still had 45s and a few albums. I didn't know anything about "hits" or charts or whats popular because I was around a lot of old people, lol. So that never really concerned me. I've never understood the idea that because a bunch of people bought a record or that it's "number 1" on the charts that it's superior to some obscure record that maybe a few people heard. I've never been a fan of "hits", but a fan of music. Sure I've liked some music that happened to be popular, but that isn't why I listened to it.

Thats kool. I never was like that either. I always liked what I like and was interested in certain kinds of music because it was something I prefered. I wish more people my age would understand that and not just listen to a certain kind of music just because its popular. I also like some popular music not because its popular but because I like it and it just so happens to be popular but people my age should understand there is so much MORE great music out there besides the radio that they limit themselves to. I cant conform like that. LOL I was around alot of older people to growing up, I guess it paid off in the end I'm more wiser when it comes down to things, music being one of them. My mother wasnt that music conscience she is really into gospel music though. All my thanks goes to my daddy for the music exposure lol.

 

[DuranDuran]

^^^ I remember when I was going to high school, some of the kids would purposefully seek out bands that were obscure and underground and say whatever was on the radio or on MTV was "trash". If one of those groups happened to become mainstream popular, they would say the groups' had "sold out", and they would quit listening to them and go on to the next thing. I didn't really understand that either. It's the opposite of a lot of the posters here who are always talking about who sold the most. With them it's cool for an act to sell 500 copies of a record, the more obscure, the better. Usually they were fans of either punk rock, heavy metal, underground rap, or goth singers/bands that never got radio play.

 

[Sparkling9Souls]

I'll go ahead and call it nostalgic nonsense. Yeah, I imagine that it must have been fun times to wait outside a record store for a midnight opening to buy the "Dangerous" album; and as a fan, nothing beats the lead up to a new album because it is essentially a new "era." But what about those people who become fans when their favorite artist or group is either inactive or passed away? The won't be able to experience the feeling of purchasing the album the day of its release, but you can't say that a person who buys an album 20 years after its release will appreciate it less than a person who purchased the album the very second their local record store opened.

Plus, we do live in a generation where we experience everything differently now. Why listen to FM radio for a top ten when you can have a last.fm account that tracks your own personal listening habits and creates a top 10 for you? Why wait until a record store opens when you can legally (or illegally) acquire ANY song at any given time of the day? Also, even if you want physical material, it tends to be cheaper to buy from Amazon than from a Bricks and Mortar store. So yeah, times have changed things - and for better or for worse is an argument of its own, but I don't think time has had a negative effect on the appreciation of music itself.

 

[Hachi]

^^^ I remember when I was going to high school, some of the kids would purposefully seek out bands that were obscure and underground and say whatever was on the radio or on MTV was "trash". If one of those groups happened to become mainstream popular, they would say the groups' had "sold out", and they would quit listening to them and go on to the next thing. I didn't really understand that either. It's the opposite of a lot of the posters here who are always talking about who sold the most. With them it's cool for an act to sell 500 copies of a record, the more obscure, the better. Usually they were fans of either punk rock, heavy metal, underground rap, or goth singers/bands that never got radio play.

:lol: :lol:
I'm laughing because in junior high i used to to be one of those people! I would purposefully dig out my fathers old records(not listen to any of them mind you) Just to read the names of artist that were "timeless", i loved using that word. Just so i would seemed "deep" and artsy to all my friends. But whenever somebody actually questioned me on an actual opinion on a certain artist i drew a blank. Which is what lead to actually take the time out to listen really gain an appreciation for all music that i never got to "experience" in the way my parents had but i got to gain my own personal experience from it, ill never forget where i was or what i was doing when i first heard strange fruit by billie holiday or heatwave by martha and the vandellas.

I think its the same way today you can download thousands of amazing songs but if you dont take the time to really appreciate you cant gain any "experience" from it.

I hope that made sense lol i really shoudnt be posting at 1o'clock in the morning :scratch:

 

[callmerose]

I think that when you truly enjoy an artist or music style (such as how many of us do with Mike and other R&B artists), it doesn't matter if you lived through the era or grew up wearing their records out. We all arrive at the same place, we just got there with different paths.

I agree. I grew up listening to the Jackson 5 . I have loved Michael's music almost since I was aware of music. But, i have been really impressed with the younger fans on this site and how into the music they are, even the older stuff. I love that.

It's an experience that can't be taken away or learned. You either lived through it and experienced it or you didn't, and I can understand why someone who was lucky enough to live during that time can brag and say "You just will never know what's that like". Because its true.

Yes, this is true. I have some amazing memories. I am forunate in that I was close to Michael's age, there are things that people have in common and can relate to when they are of the same generation. On the other hand, Michael's music seems to transcend age.

Back in the old days, with no internet, those tv shows and live shows were the only time we ever got to see our favorite artists. My little friends and I would make special plans if the Jackson 5 were going to be on tv. It was an event! Although I do have to say most of my friends liked Donny Osmond and the Osmond Brothers more than Michael and the Jackson 5. There is no accounting for taste with little girls.

That, however, doesn't make one less knowledgeable, appreciative or understanding of the music.

I agree. In fact some of the younger fans are much more knowledgeable about the music lore than I am.

I download plenty of individual songs, because I always hated that when I bought a typical cd, I wouldn't like half of the songs. And I am a radio surfer, in that I can't stand to listen to a song that I don't like. Drives my friends crazy.

But if I really like an artist, i buy the cd because I like to have it in my hand and have the booklet to look at even though I may not play it except to record it into ITunes.

Even though I am older and have experienced the releases of all of Michael's albums as major events, my favorite album is Dangerous.